I've encountered my first notable bug. I've been playing through Story Mode, and completed Sonic 1 and CD so far. But now that I'm on Sonic 2, I've noticed that the Tails AI will get trapped offscreen and get stuck in a death loop or always jumping loop, rather than respawn by flying back onscreen like he's supposed to. So in the background will be a constant, repetitive loop of Tails' death or jumping sound effects.
Not gamebreaking, but annoying.
In better news, thanks to being able to retry special stages, this is the first time I've ever managed to unlock Super Sonic in Sonic 2. The later special stages are difficult.
I've encountered my first notable bug. I've been playing through Story Mode, and completed Sonic 1 and CD so far. But now that I'm on Sonic 2, I've noticed that the Tails AI will get trapped offscreen and get stuck in a death loop or always jumping loop, rather than respawn by flying back onscreen like he's supposed to. So in the background will be a constant, repetitive loop of Tails' death or jumping sound effects.
Not gamebreaking, but annoying.
In better news, thanks to being able to retry special stages, this is the first time I've ever managed to unlock Super Sonic in Sonic 2. The later special stages are difficult.
Yeah that Tails bug is weird, especially since it doesn't seem to happen in Sonic 3 and Knuckles.
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Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
I've encountered my first notable bug. I've been playing through Story Mode, and completed Sonic 1 and CD so far. But now that I'm on Sonic 2, I've noticed that the Tails AI will get trapped offscreen and get stuck in a death loop or always jumping loop, rather than respawn by flying back onscreen like he's supposed to. So in the background will be a constant, repetitive loop of Tails' death or jumping sound effects.
Not gamebreaking, but annoying.
In better news, thanks to being able to retry special stages, this is the first time I've ever managed to unlock Super Sonic in Sonic 2. The later special stages are difficult.
Yeah that Tails bug is weird, especially since it doesn't seem to happen in Sonic 3 and Knuckles.
Big reason for that is likely that Sonic, Sonic CD and Sonic 2 were already made for mobile and yet used those versions for Origins. Whereas S3&K was made (ported) specifically for this Origins release and more care and thought was put into it working for the modem consoles.
The popular theory is that sega has the usage rights to that music for the original game, which includes the re-releases up until Origins as they were all roms. This might explain why the PC release had the prototype tracks, as emulation was in its infancy then and the game may have been ported over from scratch.
Origins is NOT a rom, but a recreation of S3&K in the Retro engine. I doubt lawsuits happened, but rather just another case where a risk-averse corporation decides something was not worth the lawsuit.
Or all of the digging about MJ’s involvement for the OST over the past 20 years on places like YouTube videos and wiki articles eventually got the attention of someone from his estate, and the threat of a lawsuit was enough to get sega to back off on future re-releases. I highly doubt it’s for moral reasons, as he’s nowhere in the game itself and took his name off the credits before release.
Sometimes, I think we shot ourselves in the foot on this one in the effort to find out the truth.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Nah, people only started paying attention because of the songs in question disappearing from the PC port back in the 90s.
At the time I assumed it was because some aspects of the music, like the lo-fi "go!" shouts in the background of Launch Base Zone couldn't have been reproduced with the general MIDI audio the PC port used. If you listen to fan recreations of the track in MIDI, they either omit those effects entirely or replace them with hoots, both of which change the feel quite a bit.
I got all the achievements in Sonic Origins, so here are my Sonic thoughts.
Sonic 1 is mediocre at best. As much as SEGA loves to stick Green Hill Zone nostalgia everywhere it can, it's never hit for me. The level is fine, but nothing special. Labyrinth Zone is by far the worst zone in the entire collection. I do greatly appreciate being able to spin dash.
Sonic CD is good, though the time travel mechanic is more awkward than anything. I will die on the hill that the North America soundtrack to the game is good and worthy of respect.
Sonic 2 is by far my favorite of all the classic Sonic games. Though by the time I reached the end I was forced to confront the fact that I've never actually beaten the game in the *checks* oh god thirty years since it came out. At least not without save states. I'm disappointed that the Anniversary version of the game didn't throw players a bone and place a few rings in Death Egg Zone. It was cool to finally experience the Hidden Palace Zone that was added to mobile ages ago.
Sonic 3&K has a lot of spectacle and cool new abilities, but sometimes feels a bit too gimmicky. Still great, but Sonic 2 has it beat. The new songs are okay, but shame on SEGA for not just sorting out the music rights already.
Anniversary edition feels like a hugely missed opportunity to tweak the base games a bit more to match Sonic Mania in quality. Integrate the games into a more seamless experience, with better menus, save slots and stage select options between the titles. Maybe give every iteration of Sonic the drop dash from Mania, peel out from CD, and/or insta-shield from Sonic 3. That's not too farfetched considering how consistently Tails and Knuckles play. And I also would've appreciated some slight tweaks to the level design in places, to avoid some awkward crush deaths.
As far as collection extras go, I love the museum. It's full of classic art from box art to manuals to magazine covers to game concept work. Mission mode is neat, with a bunch of bite-size challenges of varying types. I also love the animated shorts before and after starting each game, in the endearing classic style also used in Sonic Mania Adventures.
Overall, it's a good collection and a great way to play the old titles, but it falls short of its potential to be a unified, definitive experience.
I'm not going to just dump on Sega for the music thing, at least not without more information. Afaik there's no information on exactly how the MJ estate is involved in this; maybe they demanded an unreasonable sum, maybe they said 'sure, but put the name in the credits' and Sega said no for some reason, or maybe they just said absolutely not under any circumstances and refused to talk about it.
When lawyers get involved in these things (especially when the actual contributing artist is gone), any number of stupid outcomes can happen.
This should have been settled long ago. I am hoping they will not edit the Sonic 3 and Knuckles in the Steam Genesis Collection.
I already backed up the rom.
This should have been settled long ago. I am hoping they will not edit the Sonic 3 and Knuckles in the Steam Genesis Collection.
I already backed up the rom.
Again, when lawyers are involved common sense isn't. It's hard to get mad at someone for not specifying 'For all time, even in future releases we have no plans whatsoever for at this time on platforms that are only theoretical, distributed using technology that we'd never anticipate being available at this time' in a legal agreement in 1994.
Maybe they agreed it'd be fine for any future release on any Sega-made console, which back then would be the only conceivable future for them.
Sonic Mega Collection on Xbox, PS2, and Gamecube had the original music, so I doubt that’s the case. That was also the last time Sonic 3 & Knuckles was on a complain before Origins. Crazy thing is we got more games then for half the cost.
And not sure if people in here have seen this yet.
There's different rules for ROMs compared to an actual new program. And even then, look at the relative rarity compared to 1 and 2 getting ported to everything under the sun. I think this is the first time it's ever been released as anything other than an emulation of the original.
Whatever it is, I feel sure that the actual reason is both extremely stupid, and not as easy to resolve as anyone would assume.
To me it's the half baked nature of the collection that's the true crime, not the missing tracks
It could have been an easy W like the GTA collection but much like that one, this one fell short of being definitive and just... Another version you can buy
I don't know why you think there are different rules for roms and music. There's different rules for when you start selling a product, maybe.
The first and last release of Sonic 3 since MJ's death was the 2011 rom on Steam. None of the atgames or m.2 stuff or software collections have featured it since, in spite of having Sonic 1, 2, and most of the rest of the Genesis classics that Sega owns. Atgames publicly cited music rights issues for the lack of Sonic 3.
Like I said, I can easily believe one lawyer somewhere just said no out of hand in response to an email, and that killed it in its tracks.
I remember reading one story (possibly apocryphal) about some singer (my brain wants to say Madonna) wondering online why Weird Al hadn't done a parody of any of her songs, and he replied that he'd asked years ago and been told absolutely not, which was the first she'd ever heard of it.
Wasn’t Madonna, since he did Like a Surgeon back in the 80’s parodying Like a Virgin. But I’d heard similar about a different artist - I can’t recall the artist you’re talking about though, but the story is familiar.
So based on some file analysis of the PC version, it turns out that the retro engine games have been wrapped in the Sonic Forces hedgehog 2 engine. That alone would explain the crap default scaling and input lag, maybe even some sound issues. Then they injected the coins replacing lives changes, meaning that other weirdness could've been caused if that wasn't done properly.
Sonic 3 is so messed up though I have to think much of that is on Headcannon, or at least that's all they could do in the allotted time.
Wasn’t Madonna, since he did Like a Surgeon back in the 80’s parodying Like a Virgin. But I’d heard similar about a different artist - I can’t recall the artist you’re talking about though, but the story is familiar.
There's different rules for ROMs compared to an actual new program. And even then, look at the relative rarity compared to 1 and 2 getting ported to everything under the sun. I think this is the first time it's ever been released as anything other than an emulation of the original.
Whatever it is, I feel sure that the actual reason is both extremely stupid, and not as easy to resolve as anyone would assume.
IIRC, the Sonic Jam collection on Saturn actually rebuilt the games from the ground up, rather than emulating them.
It's the only exception, as far as I'm aware.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
The Forces Engine is presumably just for the frontend wrapper menus, once you boot a game it's the same Retro Engine they used for Mania etc.
I would recommend getting Sonic Mega Collection Plus on the PS2 if you want a hard copy of all the Genesis sonics. You even get some extra games too.
You can tweak the graphics some in PCSX2. It even has all the lock on cartridge variants.
You can get a memcard save on GameFAQs that unlocks everything.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
I believe emulator talk is still frowned upon round these parts.
The Forces Engine is presumably just for the frontend wrapper menus, once you boot a game it's the same Retro Engine they used for Mania etc.
That's a launcher. A "wrapper" is a container everything runs inside. The anti-blur mod I know of, uses the "hedgehogmanager", a trainer/launcher that edits Hedgehog engine games (every recent 3D title), not the Retro engine. Yet it markedly cleans up the origins games.
"Injection" means they did not edit the retro engine games themselves to add the anniversary coins. Instead the hedgehog engine is changing the memory running inside of the Retro games in realtime. It smells like the either don't have access to the Retro code itself, or don't have confidence in editing it themselves.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
The Nintendo direct actually showed some more Frontiers gameplay and it looked p cool!
I'm staying in the interested category especially after hearing enough people that played it so far saying that it actually plays well.
I still think the main area they've focused on so far is uninspired looking, but those new areas in the Direct were pretty neat.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I am looking forward to trying this, but won't until it goes cheaper. Everything they've shown off looks like it has potential but the main area is definitely a bit boring. I'm sure they are wanting to show off this area mainly because of how similar they made it look like Breath of the Wild and figuring that it would sell purely off that.
John from Digital Foundry nitpicking Origins to death. It will explain a bit where the Hedgehog engine went wrong, but it looks mostly like minor oversights, likely stemming from a rush job. It's these kind of things that knock down what could have been definitive to a decent but overpriced throwback.
The video spends even more time going over the major changes and features of the Retro versions vs the originals, including the Sonic 3 music stuff, if you needed that.
And also, wow it sure seems like Amy was meant to be playable in this?
Not done yet; how so, if I may ask?
Either way, I think we talked about that in the video above, and yeah, I totally want playable Classic Amy. =o
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Origins ending...
There's a final animated scene after S3+K that's like a "what's next?" for the cast. And rather than segue into Sonic Mania, It actually kinda looks like a Classic spin on the Adventure setting, including a real world city kinda thing? Anyway. It's all 4 characters vs Eggman. Amy notably has her hammer and is given equal screen time to everyone else. The hammer doesn't appear in either of her scenes in Sonic CD, so it's a little odd that she's included as a hero rather than a damsel in distress at the end.
On the other hand, the Story Mode also has Amy left behind with Little Planet when Sonic moves on to the next game, so I don't think she was ever gonna be added to the story of Sonic 2 or Sonic 3+K. I feel like you'd just unlock her as a non-canon option at some point, like Tails and Knuckles in games earlier than their debut.
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Not gamebreaking, but annoying.
In better news, thanks to being able to retry special stages, this is the first time I've ever managed to unlock Super Sonic in Sonic 2. The later special stages are difficult.
Yeah that Tails bug is weird, especially since it doesn't seem to happen in Sonic 3 and Knuckles.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
Big reason for that is likely that Sonic, Sonic CD and Sonic 2 were already made for mobile and yet used those versions for Origins. Whereas S3&K was made (ported) specifically for this Origins release and more care and thought was put into it working for the modem consoles.
Sometimes, I think we shot ourselves in the foot on this one in the effort to find out the truth.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
At the time I assumed it was because some aspects of the music, like the lo-fi "go!" shouts in the background of Launch Base Zone couldn't have been reproduced with the general MIDI audio the PC port used. If you listen to fan recreations of the track in MIDI, they either omit those effects entirely or replace them with hoots, both of which change the feel quite a bit.
Sonic 1 is mediocre at best. As much as SEGA loves to stick Green Hill Zone nostalgia everywhere it can, it's never hit for me. The level is fine, but nothing special. Labyrinth Zone is by far the worst zone in the entire collection. I do greatly appreciate being able to spin dash.
Sonic CD is good, though the time travel mechanic is more awkward than anything. I will die on the hill that the North America soundtrack to the game is good and worthy of respect.
Sonic 2 is by far my favorite of all the classic Sonic games. Though by the time I reached the end I was forced to confront the fact that I've never actually beaten the game in the *checks* oh god thirty years since it came out. At least not without save states. I'm disappointed that the Anniversary version of the game didn't throw players a bone and place a few rings in Death Egg Zone. It was cool to finally experience the Hidden Palace Zone that was added to mobile ages ago.
Sonic 3&K has a lot of spectacle and cool new abilities, but sometimes feels a bit too gimmicky. Still great, but Sonic 2 has it beat. The new songs are okay, but shame on SEGA for not just sorting out the music rights already.
Anniversary edition feels like a hugely missed opportunity to tweak the base games a bit more to match Sonic Mania in quality. Integrate the games into a more seamless experience, with better menus, save slots and stage select options between the titles. Maybe give every iteration of Sonic the drop dash from Mania, peel out from CD, and/or insta-shield from Sonic 3. That's not too farfetched considering how consistently Tails and Knuckles play. And I also would've appreciated some slight tweaks to the level design in places, to avoid some awkward crush deaths.
As far as collection extras go, I love the museum. It's full of classic art from box art to manuals to magazine covers to game concept work. Mission mode is neat, with a bunch of bite-size challenges of varying types. I also love the animated shorts before and after starting each game, in the endearing classic style also used in Sonic Mania Adventures.
Overall, it's a good collection and a great way to play the old titles, but it falls short of its potential to be a unified, definitive experience.
When lawyers get involved in these things (especially when the actual contributing artist is gone), any number of stupid outcomes can happen.
I already backed up the rom.
Maybe they agreed it'd be fine for any future release on any Sega-made console, which back then would be the only conceivable future for them.
And not sure if people in here have seen this yet.
Whatever it is, I feel sure that the actual reason is both extremely stupid, and not as easy to resolve as anyone would assume.
It could have been an easy W like the GTA collection but much like that one, this one fell short of being definitive and just... Another version you can buy
The first and last release of Sonic 3 since MJ's death was the 2011 rom on Steam. None of the atgames or m.2 stuff or software collections have featured it since, in spite of having Sonic 1, 2, and most of the rest of the Genesis classics that Sega owns. Atgames publicly cited music rights issues for the lack of Sonic 3.
I remember reading one story (possibly apocryphal) about some singer (my brain wants to say Madonna) wondering online why Weird Al hadn't done a parody of any of her songs, and he replied that he'd asked years ago and been told absolutely not, which was the first she'd ever heard of it.
Sonic 3 is so messed up though I have to think much of that is on Headcannon, or at least that's all they could do in the allotted time.
Might have been Lady Gaga?
IIRC, the Sonic Jam collection on Saturn actually rebuilt the games from the ground up, rather than emulating them.
It's the only exception, as far as I'm aware.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
You can tweak the graphics some in PCSX2. It even has all the lock on cartridge variants.
You can get a memcard save on GameFAQs that unlocks everything.
That's a launcher. A "wrapper" is a container everything runs inside. The anti-blur mod I know of, uses the "hedgehogmanager", a trainer/launcher that edits Hedgehog engine games (every recent 3D title), not the Retro engine. Yet it markedly cleans up the origins games.
"Injection" means they did not edit the retro engine games themselves to add the anniversary coins. Instead the hedgehog engine is changing the memory running inside of the Retro games in realtime. It smells like the either don't have access to the Retro code itself, or don't have confidence in editing it themselves.
I'm staying in the interested category especially after hearing enough people that played it so far saying that it actually plays well.
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The video spends even more time going over the major changes and features of the Retro versions vs the originals, including the Sonic 3 music stuff, if you needed that.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Not done yet; how so, if I may ask?
Either way, I think we talked about that in the video above, and yeah, I totally want playable Classic Amy. =o
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
On the other hand, the Story Mode also has Amy left behind with Little Planet when Sonic moves on to the next game, so I don't think she was ever gonna be added to the story of Sonic 2 or Sonic 3+K. I feel like you'd just unlock her as a non-canon option at some point, like Tails and Knuckles in games earlier than their debut.
That's bananas. The changes to Shadow's gameplay especially. Dare I say, this could make it... fun!?
Shadow is also wielding a gun.
More guns
And Edge lord style darkness