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A GST On The Ethics of Democrats Appearing on Alt Right Sympathetic Media

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Posts

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited August 13
    Seems to me the greater danger is that some nice leftist will start listening to the show and get real into hallucinogens and MMA and wind up in the hospital after trying to round house kick a raccoon.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    Dee Kaespool32FrankiedarlingTryCatcherMonwynCrimson KingpainfulPleasanceNinjeffJulius
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Learn Rogan exists, listen to Shapiro, shoot up a wal-mart? Feels truthy, lacks data.

    I feel like people don't just fail to grasp who Rogan is... They also fail to grasp who Jones is. Dude is a grifter who used to be on local AM radio in Austin, I've heard him interviewed by the FM morning shows off and on for 20 years. Back in the day he was anti-GHW Bush and raging about the New World Order and world government conspiracies... then it was the Clintons, then 9/11 Trutherism and anti-Bush again, now it's gay frogs I guess? Anyhow it's a grift. It's all a grift. If there stopped being money in the alt-right, he'd just pivot to leftist conspiracy instead.

    I mean, Austin is not a hotbed of rightwing sentiment and white nationalism. After 20 years of daily exposure to Jones on the radio station named after LBJ, it's still lefty af. I feel like we might be getting the causal relationship in this correlation backwards.

    Whether or not he's grifting or genuine doesn't much matter to the people who believe him, and of things like hound the families of shooting victims out of their homes because they're "lying about their non existent children and are false flag actors"

    There's no getting around how much of a silly goose the guy is and has always been. I'm just saying, if you have Alex Jones on your show, in my experience, it's because you want to laugh at the nutbar while being absolutely dead certain that he will never break character on air. It's like his greatest skill.

    It's not because you believe a damn thing he says, it's because everybody's already in on the joke.

    While giving him more of an audience to say and do things that result in shooting victims having to flee their homes. "Never breaks character" is not an asset when you're hurting people.

    SleepPreacherAngelHedgietolragKristmas KthulhuEddyjungleroomxFencingsaxDouglasDangerNyysjanHappy Little MachineFANTOMASLord_AsmodeusElldren
  • Yes, and...Yes, and... Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Y'all get that some of us, who have in fact been watching this phenomenon for years already, have in fact watched people fall down the funnel right? Like I'm not making stuff up cause I read about it somewhere. I'm not making up a story I think is playing out. I have literally watched people go down this particular hole.

    I literally live with someone who listens to the podcast regularly, and who has shown no signs of radicalization, so I'm confident that your experiences, while real and valid, are not totally representative.

    WhiteZinfandelpainfulPleasanceJulius
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    I don't know why but too many people here are dismissing the dangers of the Far Right interviewers Rogan's been normalising, people in any other thread would be Enemy #1. From the left, no less. We've gone over Alex Jones and McInnes, two people with legal histories of encouraging violence and harassment, which has been waved off as an over reaction.

    Another of his guests is Candice Owens.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/09/politics/ted-lieu-candace-owens-exchange-hitler-house-hearing/index.html
    Lieu then played a clip of Owens describing Hitler's motive "to make Germany great" as "fine."
    "I actually don't have any problems at all with the word nationalism," Owens says in the clip. "I think that it gets -- the definition gets poisoned by elitists that actually want globalism. Globalism is what I don't want. So when you think about -- whenever we say nationalism, the first thing people think about -- at least in America -- is Hitler. You know, he was a national socialist, but if Hitler had just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, OK, fine. The problem is that he wanted -- he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalize, he wanted everybody to be German, everybody to be speaking German."

    Jordan Petersen is another.

    https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/26/17144166/jordan-peterson-12-rules-for-life
    When Cathy Newman, a journalist for the UK’s Channel 4, challenged Peterson’s arguments in a televised interview, she received so many death threats that she had to get help from the police. “There were literally thousands of abusive tweets — it was a semi-organized campaign,” she recalled in an interview. “ It ranged from the usual ‘c***, b****, dumb blonde’ to ‘I’m going to find out where you live and execute you.’”

    ***
    What happened in the fall of 2016 is that Peterson inserted himself into a national Canadian debate over transgender rights — specifically by refusing to refer to a student by their chosen gender pronouns.

    At the time, the Canadian parliament was considering something called Bill C-16, a bill banning discrimination against people on the basis of “gender identity” or “gender expression.” In September, Peterson released a series of YouTube videos attacking the bill as a grave threat to free speech rights. He said he would refuse to refer to transgender students by their preferred pronouns; separating gender and biological sex was, in his view, “radically politically correct thinking.” He argued that C-16 would lead to people like him being arrested.

    “If they fine me, I won’t pay it. If they put me in jail, I’ll go on a hunger strike. I’m not doing this,” Peterson said in an October 2016 TV interview. “I’m not using the words that other people require me to use. Especially if they’re made up by radical left-wing ideologues.”

    Rogan hasn't been having garden variety racists on his show, were he he'd be less controversial and be more like CNN. Where this gets dark is he's signal boosting the Alt-Right/Far Right/conservative All-Stars, some more than once.

    At lest on CNN Shapiro was embarrassed being called on his beliefs, that's what Rogan won't do. He will, of course, have a beer with them.

    Harry Dresden on
    tolragDarkPrimusYoutubeLord_AsmodeusElldren
  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    Alex Jones is far from alt-right imo. He’s a conspiracy nut whose conspiracies historically and presently cross party lines. He will ultimately be remembered for his on-air attempts to go super sayan and break the programming with his masculine energy. There will be a postscript about gay frogs. If we fear this man and his influence we are fools.

    Will some ppl take him serious? Sure. Some people are fools and that can’t be helped. Can’t bend society around them or we’ll be in knots forever.

    spool32NinjeffJulius
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Alex Jones is far from alt-right imo. He’s a conspiracy nut whose conspiracies historically and presently cross party lines. He will ultimately be remembered for his on-air attempts to go super sayan and break the programming with his masculine energy. There will be a postscript about gay frogs. If we fear this man and his influence we are fools.

    Will some ppl take him serious? Sure. Some people are fools and that can’t be helped. Can’t bend society around them or we’ll be in knots forever.

    Alex Jones isn't going to take over the world, no. Likewise though you shouldn't be signal boosting him because he does do damage.

    Kristmas Kthulhu
  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Registered User regular
    The last time Rogan had Jones on, didn't they spend time on the remorse Alex Jones feels for how he handled the Sandy Hook shooting?

    I have a complete set of the Venture Bros. Season 7 t-shirt club medium-size t-shirts for sale. PM me if you're interested.
  • CptKemzikCptKemzik Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    I couldn't give a flying fuck if jones has remorse over his actions RE Sandy Hook. He is a bigoted crook who sells snake oil to people and shouldn't receive the time of day from anyone.

    CptKemzik on
    Kristmas KthulhuHarry DresdenjungleroomxFencingsaxPreacherHappy Little MachineFANTOMASNo-QuarterStabbity StyleLord_AsmodeusQanamildispatch.oAistanElldren
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    The last time Rogan had Jones on, didn't they spend time on the remorse Alex Jones feels for how he handled the Sandy Hook shooting?

    Given that Jones is a serial liar by trade I'm not sure how much stock you can put in that. Especially as it's not like he's learned a lesson...he's now on "the people suing me tried to frame me for child porn".

    Or whether he's recanted (or even stopped generating) the other horrible shit he does, like claiming that the CIA killed Hether Hayer so of course the guy filming it had to be in on it, or..

    Generally he spews bullshit until sued, walks it back, repeat.

    Phoenix-D on
    Kristmas KthulhuFencingsax
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Alex Jones is far from alt-right imo. He’s a conspiracy nut whose conspiracies historically and presently cross party lines. He will ultimately be remembered for his on-air attempts to go super sayan and break the programming with his masculine energy. There will be a postscript about gay frogs. If we fear this man and his influence we are fools.

    This sort of harmless and humorous description of Alex Jones is how he got normalised and became so popular and why Rogan was irresponsible for encouraging that atmosphere. To you, he may be a joke, to the families of Sandy Hook he's responsible for unleashing hoard of people to harass them that they have to move houses and stay under the radar, to the Ping Pong Pizzeria he encouraged someone to shoot them for having a pedophile ring under a fictional basement. What are you opinions on those?

    Alex Jones got sued to stop using Pepe the Frog, an Alt-Right mascot.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/06/11/731520403/alex-jones-to-pay-15-000-in-pepe-the-frog-copyright-infringement-case
    Will some ppl take him serious? Sure. Some people are fools and that can’t be helped. Can’t bend society around them or we’ll be in knots forever.

    Sure they can, you don't deliberately agitate and indoctrinate unstable people and aim them at your enemies for a buck. Anyone would know how that would end up one day with conspiracy theories being weaponised.

    SleepAngelHedgieKristmas KthulhuHappy Little MachineNo-QuarterLord_AsmodeusElldren
  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    Alex Jones is far from alt-right imo. He’s a conspiracy nut whose conspiracies historically and presently cross party lines. He will ultimately be remembered for his on-air attempts to go super sayan and break the programming with his masculine energy. There will be a postscript about gay frogs. If we fear this man and his influence we are fools.

    This sort of harmless and humorous description of Alex Jones is how he got normalised and became so popular and why Rogan was irresponsible for encouraging that atmosphere. To you, he may be a joke, to the families of Sandy Hook he's responsible for unleashing hoard of people to harass them that they have to move houses and stay under the radar, to the Ping Pong Pizzeria he encouraged someone to shoot them for having a pedophile ring under a fictional basement. What are you opinions on those?

    Alex Jones got sued to stop using Pepe the Frog, an Alt-Right mascot.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/06/11/731520403/alex-jones-to-pay-15-000-in-pepe-the-frog-copyright-infringement-case
    Will some ppl take him serious? Sure. Some people are fools and that can’t be helped. Can’t bend society around them or we’ll be in knots forever.

    Sure they can, you don't deliberately agitate and indoctrinate unstable people and aim them at your enemies for a buck. Anyone would know how that would end up one day with conspiracy theories being weaponised.

    Taking him serious is part of the problem. You can't help it when fools do, but you can help yourself. You can realize that some outliers will not be helped, and that those are the sorts of people who will not respond to your attempts to deplatform him because the very act of deplatforming feeds into the conspiracy.

    There's always going to be some people who take it too far. The least we can do is not give them more reasons than they already have to take the guy serious.

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Alex Jones is far from alt-right imo. He’s a conspiracy nut whose conspiracies historically and presently cross party lines. He will ultimately be remembered for his on-air attempts to go super sayan and break the programming with his masculine energy. There will be a postscript about gay frogs. If we fear this man and his influence we are fools.

    This sort of harmless and humorous description of Alex Jones is how he got normalised and became so popular and why Rogan was irresponsible for encouraging that atmosphere. To you, he may be a joke, to the families of Sandy Hook he's responsible for unleashing hoard of people to harass them that they have to move houses and stay under the radar, to the Ping Pong Pizzeria he encouraged someone to shoot them for having a pedophile ring under a fictional basement. What are you opinions on those?

    Alex Jones got sued to stop using Pepe the Frog, an Alt-Right mascot.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/06/11/731520403/alex-jones-to-pay-15-000-in-pepe-the-frog-copyright-infringement-case
    Will some ppl take him serious? Sure. Some people are fools and that can’t be helped. Can’t bend society around them or we’ll be in knots forever.

    Sure they can, you don't deliberately agitate and indoctrinate unstable people and aim them at your enemies for a buck. Anyone would know how that would end up one day with conspiracy theories being weaponised.

    Taking him serious is part of the problem. You can't help it when fools do, but you can help yourself. You can realize that some outliers will not be helped, and that those are the sorts of people who will not respond to your attempts to deplatform him because the very act of deplatforming feeds into the conspiracy.

    There's always going to be some people who take it too far. The least we can do is not give them more reasons than they already have to take the guy serious.

    Or you know don't spread his bullshit around resulting in fewer viewers resulting in fewer idiots.

    SleepKristmas KthulhuHarry DresdenFencingsaxNyysjanHappy Little MachineLord_AsmodeusElldren
  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Alex Jones is far from alt-right imo. He’s a conspiracy nut whose conspiracies historically and presently cross party lines. He will ultimately be remembered for his on-air attempts to go super sayan and break the programming with his masculine energy. There will be a postscript about gay frogs. If we fear this man and his influence we are fools.

    This sort of harmless and humorous description of Alex Jones is how he got normalised and became so popular and why Rogan was irresponsible for encouraging that atmosphere. To you, he may be a joke, to the families of Sandy Hook he's responsible for unleashing hoard of people to harass them that they have to move houses and stay under the radar, to the Ping Pong Pizzeria he encouraged someone to shoot them for having a pedophile ring under a fictional basement. What are you opinions on those?

    Alex Jones got sued to stop using Pepe the Frog, an Alt-Right mascot.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/06/11/731520403/alex-jones-to-pay-15-000-in-pepe-the-frog-copyright-infringement-case
    Will some ppl take him serious? Sure. Some people are fools and that can’t be helped. Can’t bend society around them or we’ll be in knots forever.

    Sure they can, you don't deliberately agitate and indoctrinate unstable people and aim them at your enemies for a buck. Anyone would know how that would end up one day with conspiracy theories being weaponised.

    Taking him serious is part of the problem. You can't help it when fools do, but you can help yourself. You can realize that some outliers will not be helped, and that those are the sorts of people who will not respond to your attempts to deplatform him because the very act of deplatforming feeds into the conspiracy.

    There's always going to be some people who take it too far. The least we can do is not give them more reasons than they already have to take the guy serious.

    Or you know don't spread his bullshit around resulting in fewer viewers resulting in fewer idiots.

    The vast majority of people don't act on Alex Jones' bullshit, and we know this because very very few have. Those that do are so far in that attempts to silence him have an inverse effect.

    Julius
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Alex Jones is far from alt-right imo. He’s a conspiracy nut whose conspiracies historically and presently cross party lines. He will ultimately be remembered for his on-air attempts to go super sayan and break the programming with his masculine energy. There will be a postscript about gay frogs. If we fear this man and his influence we are fools.

    This sort of harmless and humorous description of Alex Jones is how he got normalised and became so popular and why Rogan was irresponsible for encouraging that atmosphere. To you, he may be a joke, to the families of Sandy Hook he's responsible for unleashing hoard of people to harass them that they have to move houses and stay under the radar, to the Ping Pong Pizzeria he encouraged someone to shoot them for having a pedophile ring under a fictional basement. What are you opinions on those?

    Alex Jones got sued to stop using Pepe the Frog, an Alt-Right mascot.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/06/11/731520403/alex-jones-to-pay-15-000-in-pepe-the-frog-copyright-infringement-case
    Will some ppl take him serious? Sure. Some people are fools and that can’t be helped. Can’t bend society around them or we’ll be in knots forever.

    Sure they can, you don't deliberately agitate and indoctrinate unstable people and aim them at your enemies for a buck. Anyone would know how that would end up one day with conspiracy theories being weaponised.

    Taking him serious is part of the problem. You can't help it when fools do, but you can help yourself. You can realize that some outliers will not be helped, and that those are the sorts of people who will not respond to your attempts to deplatform him because the very act of deplatforming feeds into the conspiracy.

    There's always going to be some people who take it too far. The least we can do is not give them more reasons than they already have to take the guy serious.

    Or you know don't spread his bullshit around resulting in fewer viewers resulting in fewer idiots.

    The vast majority of people don't act on Alex Jones' bullshit, and we know this because very very few have. Those that do are so far in that attempts to silence him have an inverse effect.

    Those that *already follow him*, yes. However if he's less popular you have fewer people exposed which means fewer new assholes.

    Also the lead in to this sub thread wasn't even deplatforming him, just describing him accurately by not minimizing his bullshit.

    Phoenix-D on
    Kristmas KthulhuHappy Little MachineElldren
  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Alex Jones is far from alt-right imo. He’s a conspiracy nut whose conspiracies historically and presently cross party lines. He will ultimately be remembered for his on-air attempts to go super sayan and break the programming with his masculine energy. There will be a postscript about gay frogs. If we fear this man and his influence we are fools.

    This sort of harmless and humorous description of Alex Jones is how he got normalised and became so popular and why Rogan was irresponsible for encouraging that atmosphere. To you, he may be a joke, to the families of Sandy Hook he's responsible for unleashing hoard of people to harass them that they have to move houses and stay under the radar, to the Ping Pong Pizzeria he encouraged someone to shoot them for having a pedophile ring under a fictional basement. What are you opinions on those?

    Alex Jones got sued to stop using Pepe the Frog, an Alt-Right mascot.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/06/11/731520403/alex-jones-to-pay-15-000-in-pepe-the-frog-copyright-infringement-case
    Will some ppl take him serious? Sure. Some people are fools and that can’t be helped. Can’t bend society around them or we’ll be in knots forever.

    Sure they can, you don't deliberately agitate and indoctrinate unstable people and aim them at your enemies for a buck. Anyone would know how that would end up one day with conspiracy theories being weaponised.

    Taking him serious is part of the problem. You can't help it when fools do, but you can help yourself. You can realize that some outliers will not be helped, and that those are the sorts of people who will not respond to your attempts to deplatform him because the very act of deplatforming feeds into the conspiracy.

    There's always going to be some people who take it too far. The least we can do is not give them more reasons than they already have to take the guy serious.

    Or you know don't spread his bullshit around resulting in fewer viewers resulting in fewer idiots.

    The vast majority of people don't act on Alex Jones' bullshit, and we know this because very very few have. Those that do are so far in that attempts to silence him have an inverse effect.

    Those that *already follow him*, yes. However if he's less popular you have fewer people exposed which means fewer new assholes.

    Also the lead in to this sub thread wasn't even deplatforming him, just describing him accurately by not minimizing his bullshit.

    If you treat him seriously he will be taken seriously. Or at least, more seriously than he is already taken. He was less harmful when he was widely ridiculed and thought of as a quack. The more you try to take his bullshit "very seriously and responsibly" the worse it is for that core of fools for they will view it as legitimization. Sometimes the best antidote is mockery. I feel this method might be beyond us now, as a collective. We have lost the ability to treat even people like Alex Jones with anything but the utmost severity.

    painfulPleasance
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    If you treat him seriously he will be taken seriously. Or at least, more seriously than he is already taken. He was less harmful when he was widely ridiculed and thought of as a quack. The more you try to take his bullshit "very seriously and responsibly" the worse it is for that core of fools for they will view it as legitimization. Sometimes the best antidote is mockery. I feel this method might be beyond us now, as a collective. We have lost the ability to treat even people like Alex Jones with anything but the utmost severity.

    People started taking him seriously when his followers started destroying peoples lives and starting shooting people. I think that would be wise to start fearing what his can do. Something which you've dodged in your last reply to me. And part of how he can do this is because he became more mainstream - which Rogan enabled. This is the danger of normalisation. But Rogan wants me to think he's just a mischievous uncle to laugh at.

    Mocking worked when Jones was an obscure figure, Rogan made it possible for him to be a national threat to very real people.

    Jones' game was a risk, and it was a risk for other people. It was a matter of when his followers would harm others not if. Those incidents weren't accidents, Frankie. All it takes is one or two people snapping and there will be a high body count. Especially in this atmosphere of white supremacist terrorism.

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    You can mock the shit out of people like Jones while also acknowledging that they encourage dangerous behavior that no one should give the time of day. It's not an either/or

    Phoenix-D on
    Kristmas KthulhupainfulPleasanceElldren
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    The last time Rogan had Jones on, didn't they spend time on the remorse Alex Jones feels for how he handled the Sandy Hook shooting?

    Fuck. Him.

    Shouldn't have sicced his goon squad on people who just lost children in order to further the right wing nutbarism about false flag school shootings, knowing it was all bullshit.

    Alex Jones cant express enough remorse for me. He's unforgivable. He profited off of that shit now feels a twinge of guilt?

    jungleroomx on
    Make. Time.
    spool32jmcdonaldKristmas KthulhuFencingsaxCptKemziktolragNyysjanHappy Little MachineNo-QuarterLord_AsmodeusQanamilElldrenoverride367
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    Seriously. People are dying for things that are "jusajoakbro" and I think it's time that petty ass excuse stopped being acceptable.

    Make. Time.
    Kristmas KthulhuCptKemzikNyysjanHappy Little MachineFANTOMASNo-QuarterLord_AsmodeusQanamilElldren
  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    If you treat him seriously he will be taken seriously. Or at least, more seriously than he is already taken. He was less harmful when he was widely ridiculed and thought of as a quack. The more you try to take his bullshit "very seriously and responsibly" the worse it is for that core of fools for they will view it as legitimization. Sometimes the best antidote is mockery. I feel this method might be beyond us now, as a collective. We have lost the ability to treat even people like Alex Jones with anything but the utmost severity.

    People started taking him seriously when his followers started destroying peoples lives and starting shooting people. I think that would be wise to start fearing what his can do. Something which you've dodged in your last reply to me. And part of how he can do this is because he became more mainstream - which Rogan enabled. This is the danger of normalisation. But Rogan wants me to think he's just a mischievous uncle to laugh at.

    Mocking worked when Jones was an obscure figure, Rogan made it possible for him to be a national threat to very real people.

    Jones' game was a risk, and it was a risk for other people. It was a matter of when his followers would harm others not if. Those incidents weren't accidents, Frankie. All it takes is one or two people snapping and there will be a high body count. Especially in this atmosphere of white supremacist terrorism.

    I didn't dodge it in my reply, I addressed it. You not liking my answer is not the same thing as me dodging.

    You're engaging in the ultimately futile task of preventing outliers, and you are going about in a way that will produce the opposite results. "All it takes is one ore two people snapping", yes! In a world of billions you can never account for all the ones and twos.

    Finally, Alex Jones was famous long before the JRE. He was alive, well and ranting about the Bush, 9/11 and the Bildaberg group (whatever it's called i dunno). I have seen no evidence that the JRE caused Alex to become a national threat. You stating that does not make it so.

    Frankiedarling on
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    "Preventing outliers" when, what? Preventing outliers when you talk about the difference between healthcare plans? Or the outliers when you accuse people of trying to remove gun owners 2nd amendment rights by faking the death of children?

    Make. Time.
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    "Preventing outliers" when, what? Preventing outliers when you talk about the difference between healthcare plans? Or the outliers when you accuse people of trying to remove gun owners 2nd amendment rights by faking the death of children?

    Frankie apparently thinks Jones communicates by magic and reducing his exposure can't reduce the number of people who act on his bullshit.

    Kristmas KthulhujungleroomxFANTOMAS
  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    "Preventing outliers" when, what? Preventing outliers when you talk about the difference between healthcare plans? Or the outliers when you accuse people of trying to remove gun owners 2nd amendment rights by faking the death of children?

    Frankie apparently thinks Jones communicates by magic and reducing his exposure can't reduce the number of people who act on his bullshit.

    Frankie thinks that when you're talking about which "one or two" lunatic conspiracy theorists will snap, it is very likely that they fall in the camp of those who will take suppression of their truth-teller to be evidence and confirmation of a conspiracy. Frankie likewise appreciates the words and meanings you attribute to him despite them not being present in any of his posts.

    painfulPleasanceNinjeff
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    "Preventing outliers" when, what? Preventing outliers when you talk about the difference between healthcare plans? Or the outliers when you accuse people of trying to remove gun owners 2nd amendment rights by faking the death of children?

    Frankie apparently thinks Jones communicates by magic and reducing his exposure can't reduce the number of people who act on his bullshit.

    Frankie thinks that when you're talking about which "one or two" lunatic conspiracy theorists will snap, it is very likely that they fall in the camp of those who will take suppression of their truth-teller to be evidence and confirmation of a conspiracy. Frankie likewise appreciates the words and meanings you attribute to him despite them not being present in any of his posts.

    Then maybe he shouldn't be pushing this shit so people "snap."

    Make. Time.
    Harry Dresden
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    Darkewolfe was warned for this.
    Frankie is the very definition of a first steps alt-right person, who says just jokes and defends low grade ism. Been that way for years and we're not going to convert in this conversation.

    Bogart on
    What is this I don't even.
    DouglasDangerKristmas KthulhuNyysjanFANTOMAS
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    "Preventing outliers" when, what? Preventing outliers when you talk about the difference between healthcare plans? Or the outliers when you accuse people of trying to remove gun owners 2nd amendment rights by faking the death of children?

    Frankie apparently thinks Jones communicates by magic and reducing his exposure can't reduce the number of people who act on his bullshit.

    Frankie thinks that when you're talking about which "one or two" lunatic conspiracy theorists will snap, it is very likely that they fall in the camp of those who will take suppression of their truth-teller to be evidence and confirmation of a conspiracy. Frankie likewise appreciates the words and meanings you attribute to him despite them not being present in any of his posts.

    The Sandy Hook thing wasn't one or two. And again this presupposes he already has 100% of his viewership. If increasing his viewers can't increase the number of outliers the only conclusions are

    A. He's somehow miraculously attracted 100% of the assholes
    Or
    B. The magic communication

    Because if you have a viewership of X and Y are vicious outliers, increasing X increases Y. That's how it works.

    Kristmas Kthulhu
  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    It would be real nice if people responded to what people are saying instead of supposing where people are going to the nth degree of the person you have fabricated in your head. It would make it easier to communicate and have actual discourse.

    psn: PhasenWeeple
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  • MonwynMonwyn Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    There was a time not long ago where Joe’s position on Trans folk would have been avant-garde. Naturally, we seek progress and that’s good. What was great in the past is no longer great. However, there seems to be no gradient. The prevailing opinion seems to be that either you are a 100% full and true believer of all the most cutting edge and controversial liberal opinions or Fuck You, Go Away. I posit that this is extremely unhelpful and always has been. Perfect being the enemy of the good and all that.

    Moreover, this is what drives people away. Because I’m describing is not a set of beliefs, a creed, a philosophy or a party platform. It is an orthodoxy, from which variation is heresy punishable by excommunication. It is an ugly look on anyone and we are no exception.

    Nothing I've seen from Rogan on trans people would be avant garde in the 90s

    Oh, please. If you're gonna lie, at least be clever about it.

    uH3IcEi.png
  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Frankie is the very definition of a first steps alt-right person, who says just jokes and defends low grade ism. Been that way for years and we're not going to convert in this conversation.

    "First steps alt right person". Geeeezus.

    AridholpainfulPleasanceNinjeff
  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    "Preventing outliers" when, what? Preventing outliers when you talk about the difference between healthcare plans? Or the outliers when you accuse people of trying to remove gun owners 2nd amendment rights by faking the death of children?

    Frankie apparently thinks Jones communicates by magic and reducing his exposure can't reduce the number of people who act on his bullshit.

    Frankie thinks that when you're talking about which "one or two" lunatic conspiracy theorists will snap, it is very likely that they fall in the camp of those who will take suppression of their truth-teller to be evidence and confirmation of a conspiracy. Frankie likewise appreciates the words and meanings you attribute to him despite them not being present in any of his posts.

    Then maybe he shouldn't be pushing this shit so people "snap."

    Sure. Maybe he shouldn't. Maybe no one should go hungry and there should be no more war and everyone should be nice to eachother. I dispute none of these things.
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    "Preventing outliers" when, what? Preventing outliers when you talk about the difference between healthcare plans? Or the outliers when you accuse people of trying to remove gun owners 2nd amendment rights by faking the death of children?

    Frankie apparently thinks Jones communicates by magic and reducing his exposure can't reduce the number of people who act on his bullshit.

    Frankie thinks that when you're talking about which "one or two" lunatic conspiracy theorists will snap, it is very likely that they fall in the camp of those who will take suppression of their truth-teller to be evidence and confirmation of a conspiracy. Frankie likewise appreciates the words and meanings you attribute to him despite them not being present in any of his posts.

    The Sandy Hook thing wasn't one or two. And again this presupposes he already has 100% of his viewership. If increasing his viewers can't increase the number of outliers the only conclusions are

    A. He's somehow miraculously attracted 100% of the assholes
    Or
    B. The magic communication

    Because if you have a viewership of X and Y are vicious outliers, increasing X increases Y. That's how it works.

    He can certainly have more viewers. But I would rather have more viewers who treat him like a joke than fewer viewers that rally around his internet martyrdom.

    He was, in my opinion, less dangerous when people watched him for shit like this.

    I never saw a serious word spoken in his defense until the de-platforming push began. He turned from a joke into a quasi-martyr and that was our fault and it's simply sad. Because the true believers aren't going anywhere, and for the rest it's a damn shame that his name even comes up in conversations unrelated to frogs.

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    There was a time not long ago where Joe’s position on Trans folk would have been avant-garde. Naturally, we seek progress and that’s good. What was great in the past is no longer great. However, there seems to be no gradient. The prevailing opinion seems to be that either you are a 100% full and true believer of all the most cutting edge and controversial liberal opinions or Fuck You, Go Away. I posit that this is extremely unhelpful and always has been. Perfect being the enemy of the good and all that.

    Moreover, this is what drives people away. Because I’m describing is not a set of beliefs, a creed, a philosophy or a party platform. It is an orthodoxy, from which variation is heresy punishable by excommunication. It is an ugly look on anyone and we are no exception.

    Nothing I've seen from Rogan on trans people would be avant garde in the 90s

    Oh, please. If you're gonna lie, at least be clever about it.

    Ahem.
    During a recent episode of The Joe Rogan Experience podcast, co-host Brian Redban asked Rogan what he thought about "that tranny" [Fox], which started an eight-minute rant from Rogan that delved into the following commentary (via Fight Opinion):
    She calls herself a woman but... I tend to disagree...
    Conover gave the example of a friend of his who thought it was humane to respect the decision of their young boy to identify as a girl.

    "But if that's who they are," asked Rogan, "if they think they are a girl, why do you have to give them hormones to make them more of a girl?"
    Rogan and Pool said Twitter has taken a side and only defends one side of the ideology, those who believe in acknowledging trans people, and not the opposite view. Rogan said people are expressing a "scientifically accurate" view and called it an ideologically-based rule and that trans people are now a "protected class" on Twitter.
    "Now all of a sudden we're supposed to say, 'No, she's a woman; she's dainty'.

    "She's got size 14 feet! She's got gorilla hands! What in the f**k are we doing here?"

    With one (1) quote located where he was *probably* not being an enormous asshole (re Ace Ventura). On the other hand there's a Jordan Peterson trans rights segment that I'm guessing did not go well.

    I mean arguing against treatment, spewing the same bullshit I've seen from every transphobe for years..yeah no.

    Kristmas KthulhupainfulPleasanceFANTOMASFuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudLord_Asmodeus
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Alex Jones is far from alt-right imo. He’s a conspiracy nut whose conspiracies historically and presently cross party lines. He will ultimately be remembered for his on-air attempts to go super sayan and break the programming with his masculine energy. There will be a postscript about gay frogs. If we fear this man and his influence we are fools.

    Will some ppl take him serious? Sure. Some people are fools and that can’t be helped. Can’t bend society around them or we’ll be in knots forever.

    You know that the current President of the United States went on his show, right?

    You know that people have been harassed for years because they were called liars on his show, right?

    To deny the real harm that he does because he happens to also act very foolish is exactly what he wants you to do.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    "Preventing outliers" when, what? Preventing outliers when you talk about the difference between healthcare plans? Or the outliers when you accuse people of trying to remove gun owners 2nd amendment rights by faking the death of children?

    Frankie apparently thinks Jones communicates by magic and reducing his exposure can't reduce the number of people who act on his bullshit.

    Frankie thinks that when you're talking about which "one or two" lunatic conspiracy theorists will snap, it is very likely that they fall in the camp of those who will take suppression of their truth-teller to be evidence and confirmation of a conspiracy. Frankie likewise appreciates the words and meanings you attribute to him despite them not being present in any of his posts.

    Then maybe he shouldn't be pushing this shit so people "snap."

    Sure. Maybe he shouldn't. Maybe no one should go hungry and there should be no more war and everyone should be nice to eachother. I dispute none of these things.
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    "Preventing outliers" when, what? Preventing outliers when you talk about the difference between healthcare plans? Or the outliers when you accuse people of trying to remove gun owners 2nd amendment rights by faking the death of children?

    Frankie apparently thinks Jones communicates by magic and reducing his exposure can't reduce the number of people who act on his bullshit.

    Frankie thinks that when you're talking about which "one or two" lunatic conspiracy theorists will snap, it is very likely that they fall in the camp of those who will take suppression of their truth-teller to be evidence and confirmation of a conspiracy. Frankie likewise appreciates the words and meanings you attribute to him despite them not being present in any of his posts.

    The Sandy Hook thing wasn't one or two. And again this presupposes he already has 100% of his viewership. If increasing his viewers can't increase the number of outliers the only conclusions are

    A. He's somehow miraculously attracted 100% of the assholes
    Or
    B. The magic communication

    Because if you have a viewership of X and Y are vicious outliers, increasing X increases Y. That's how it works.

    He can certainly have more viewers. But I would rather have more viewers who treat him like a joke than fewer viewers that rally around his internet martyrdom.

    He was, in my opinion, less dangerous when people watched him for shit like this.

    I never saw a serious word spoken in his defense until the de-platforming push began. He turned from a joke into a quasi-martyr and that was our fault and it's simply sad. Because the true believers aren't going anywhere, and for the rest it's a damn shame that his name even comes up in conversations unrelated to frogs.

    By the time the de platforming push started he'd already caused serious problems.

    Also duh you didn't hear anyone defending him when no one was proposing to do anything about him. Also TBH you probably did hear a defense of a different sort.

    "It's just a joke"

    Kristmas KthulhuElldren
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    [
    I feel like there's this real disconnect in liberalism where racism is this thing they believe basically everyone is capable of acting on and most of us will at some point and "you are a racist, you always have been, and the only appropriate way to engage with you is berating"

    If you're actually trying to convince someone of the error of their ways, you talk about the view they expressed as being racist, not calling them racist. But that's for a nuanced conversation.

    Don't expect a polite, nuanced conversation to happen in response to people being loudly bigoted in public.


    What a world we live in, where conservatives spout radicalizing rhetoric, and it radicalizes people.

    And if liberals call them out on their radicalizing rhetoric, it also radicalizes people... the same direction that the conservative rhetoric does
    .

    This is a conservative strategy. Say something outrageous in a non-outrageous way, wait for someone to get justifiably incensed about it, then be all "oh my look at the intolerant left being all shouty!" Just shouting "you're a nazi!" at someone isn't going to make their fans change their mind. Explaining things in detail in a long form conversation probably has a better chance.

    That doesn't mean we shouldn't oppose nazis every step of the way and protest against them etc etc, but if you go on Rogan's show and yell YOU'RE A NAZI at him it probably isn't going to help.

    I know it's a conservative strategy. A conservative bad faith strategy. Which is why I'm not at all amused to see people in this thread bringing it up as though it's gospel truth.

    I have not called Joe Rogan a Nazi. I'm not sure that anyone in this thread has actually called him a Nazi. But he's had people on his show who espouse views very much in-line with the policies of Nazi Germany. Those people have deployed the "how dare you call me a Nazi" defense to deflect from how abhorrent the things they are advocating are, and, again, it's a bad-faith strategy because it deflects from the real issue at hand. And, again, people are here in this thread talking about it as though it's something we need to be concerned about, instead of just dismissing as bullshit.

    People don't get radicalized because the left calls things racist when they aren't racist, or calls someone a Nazi. People get radicalized because the right tells them that the left calls everyone a racist, that the left calls everyone a Nazi, that nothing they call racist is actually racist. It doesn't matter how carefully we choose our words because the right has told them that we are lying every time.

    DarkPrimus on
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  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    A lot of these "but what if they so much as hear Shapiro" arguments rely on an assumption that we fundamentally cant be more appealing than them which is p. depressing because have you ever heard that guy talk?

    right wing thought is not a mysterious brain poison that you pour into someone's ear and they become corrupted

    obviously it works on some people but you can't actually go around talking about an entire demographic of listeners like they're stupid babies in need of protecting from dangerous ideas. it is actually possible to just reason with people

    Crimson King on
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  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Alex Jones is far from alt-right imo. He’s a conspiracy nut whose conspiracies historically and presently cross party lines. He will ultimately be remembered for his on-air attempts to go super sayan and break the programming with his masculine energy. There will be a postscript about gay frogs. If we fear this man and his influence we are fools.

    Will some ppl take him serious? Sure. Some people are fools and that can’t be helped. Can’t bend society around them or we’ll be in knots forever.

    You know that the current President of the United States went on his show, right?

    You know that people have been harassed for years because they were called liars on his show, right?

    To deny the real harm that he does because he happens to also act very foolish is exactly what he wants you to do.

    nah, what he wants you to do is buy a T-shirt and click on some ads because it's a grift. He doesn't care about the harm, which makes him a terrible person, but this isn't some kind of thing where he's hiding behind 'it's just jokes'. he doesn't care if you laugh at him as long as you watch. It's a performance, folks. He's performing. It's true that he doesn't care what people do with the performance after it's over, and again that makes him a terrible person, but what he wants you to do is give him clicks and buy his merch. No more, no less.

    Frankiedarling
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    "He doesn't care about the harm he causes" is a very different statement than "he doesn't cause harm."

    DarkPrimus on
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  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    it doesn't really matter if alex jones believes the shit he says or not, it's equally dangerous

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  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    "Preventing outliers" when, what? Preventing outliers when you talk about the difference between healthcare plans? Or the outliers when you accuse people of trying to remove gun owners 2nd amendment rights by faking the death of children?

    Frankie apparently thinks Jones communicates by magic and reducing his exposure can't reduce the number of people who act on his bullshit.

    Frankie thinks that when you're talking about which "one or two" lunatic conspiracy theorists will snap, it is very likely that they fall in the camp of those who will take suppression of their truth-teller to be evidence and confirmation of a conspiracy. Frankie likewise appreciates the words and meanings you attribute to him despite them not being present in any of his posts.

    Then maybe he shouldn't be pushing this shit so people "snap."

    Sure. Maybe he shouldn't. Maybe no one should go hungry and there should be no more war and everyone should be nice to eachother. I dispute none of these things.
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    "Preventing outliers" when, what? Preventing outliers when you talk about the difference between healthcare plans? Or the outliers when you accuse people of trying to remove gun owners 2nd amendment rights by faking the death of children?

    Frankie apparently thinks Jones communicates by magic and reducing his exposure can't reduce the number of people who act on his bullshit.

    Frankie thinks that when you're talking about which "one or two" lunatic conspiracy theorists will snap, it is very likely that they fall in the camp of those who will take suppression of their truth-teller to be evidence and confirmation of a conspiracy. Frankie likewise appreciates the words and meanings you attribute to him despite them not being present in any of his posts.

    The Sandy Hook thing wasn't one or two. And again this presupposes he already has 100% of his viewership. If increasing his viewers can't increase the number of outliers the only conclusions are

    A. He's somehow miraculously attracted 100% of the assholes
    Or
    B. The magic communication

    Because if you have a viewership of X and Y are vicious outliers, increasing X increases Y. That's how it works.

    He can certainly have more viewers. But I would rather have more viewers who treat him like a joke than fewer viewers that rally around his internet martyrdom.

    He was, in my opinion, less dangerous when people watched him for shit like this.

    I never saw a serious word spoken in his defense until the de-platforming push began. He turned from a joke into a quasi-martyr and that was our fault and it's simply sad. Because the true believers aren't going anywhere, and for the rest it's a damn shame that his name even comes up in conversations unrelated to frogs.

    By the time the de platforming push started he'd already caused serious problems.

    Also duh you didn't hear anyone defending him when no one was proposing to do anything about him. Also TBH you probably did hear a defense of a different sort.

    "It's just a joke"

    The problem with Jones was that it really was just a joke for a long long time. that was literally the schtick, he would come on mainstream morning radio and rave like a crazy person about chemtrails and the Bildebergs and the hosts would just straight drag him for 10 solid minutes while he apparently didn't have a clue he was being mocked as a fool the whole time. Then he'd go back to his dinky KLBJ AM show and try every night to be more crazy than Art Bell.

    Somehow, nobody else checked in with the OG Austinites when he got a webpage and here we fucking are.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited August 14
    A lot of these "but what if they so much as hear Shapiro" arguments rely on an assumption that we fundamentally cant be more appealing than them which is p. depressing because have you ever heard that guy talk?

    right wing thought is not a mysterious brain poison that you pour into someone's ear and they become corrupted

    obviously it works on some people but you can't actually go around talking about an entire demographic of listeners like they're stupid babies in need of protecting from dangerous ideas. it is actually possible to just reason with people

    The Republican news and radio propaganda channels dispute this. Which Rogan is feeding into when he does podcast's normalising the people who show up on those channels. They're not going on Rogan's channel simply to smoke a blunt with him.

    edit: Fox News being the preeminant example.

    edit: Rogan isn't a leftist, he endorsed Ron Paul in '16. What person on the left does that?


    This is the best time EVER to consider a third party candidate. @GovGaryJohnson is the only person running that makes any sense.

    Joe Rogan is a podcaster.

    Harry Dresden on
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