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A GST On The Ethics of Democrats Appearing on Alt Right Sympathetic Media

145791027

Posts

  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    i think the worst you can say about him is that he doesn't know much about anything so can't do much but let the guest control the conversation.

    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
    Julius
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Jephery wrote: »
    i think the worst you can say about him is that he doesn't know much about anything so can't do much but let the guest control the conversation.

    Thats basically all his interviews. He lets them just say whatever to a huge audience. Right wingers see that for the opportunity it is.

    dispatch.oSleepJulius
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »
    the nyt probably swung the election by *checks notes* platforming clinton conspiracy theories

    I assume that everyone has equal disdain for candidates being interviewed in the times

    I sure as shit do. Especially with their recent bullshit. But Haberman is a cancer at that paper and her access stenography of what Ivanka and Jared want as a narrative would be something I want all candidates to avoid.

    I'd say the same with CNN or any show bringing on a white supremacist like Richard Spencer, or alex jones or even Kelly Anne Conway.

    Reminder with CNN, Zucker's explicitly on record as loving all this shit as it's good for ratings in his view.

    And that's why I wouldn't want candidates to appear there. Old media is crooked bullshit backed by people who scream both sides but consistenly side with right wing framing. Candidates can get their messages out better now, and the less we rely on the previous gate keepers the faster they'll be a museum exhibit.

    Ultimately the problem is, the platform's there and its entrenched and there's enough corporate money backing it that any attempt to boycott is going to more than likely hurt you more than them.

    Which leads us back to: "Dive into that trench and give them hell."

    Dive into what trench though? I mean the candidates went on CNN dealt with right wing framing of questions and being cut off while trying to give their answers. What does it matter if you interview for the times one day, when they run 8 days of editorials and horseshit from right wing sources about how you're bankrupting america?

    The problem is where else do you go then? Most of the outlets out there are corporate driven spectacle that value eyes on sponsor ads over the actual responsibilities of the fourth estate, and at the very least lean conservative when push comes to shove. There is no actual sanctified ground upon which to deliever a message from.

    Every outlet is going to be the trenches, and some trenches are going to be grimier than others but the work still needs to get done. The key is do you acquiesce to bullshit or do you actually fight for your message.

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
    Styrofoam SammichTryCatcher
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    Rogan sucks but I'm pretty compelled by the argument that he isn't actually more dangerous than most respectable mainstream outlets that also coddle nazis

    I'm more neutral on Rogan himself, but I just don't see what's uniquely awful about him that everybody else isn't already doing it, as shown on the multiple examples on this thread.

    Styrofoam SammichKoopahTroopahMeeqe
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    Jephery wrote: »
    i think the worst you can say about him is that he doesn't know much about anything so can't do much but let the guest control the conversation.

    Thats basically all his interviews. He lets them just say whatever to a huge audience. Right wingers see that for the opportunity it is.

    Honestly, as distressing as it is, the right has been savvier for decades when it comes to media control, and it's part of the multifaceted nightmare of why we're in this bullshit to begin with

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
    Styrofoam Sammich
  • NinjeffNinjeff Registered User regular
    Jephery wrote: »
    i think the worst you can say about him is that he doesn't know much about anything so can't do much but let the guest control the conversation.

    Thats basically all his interviews. He lets them just say whatever to a huge audience. Right wingers see that for the opportunity it is.

    And so do left wingers.
    Which is great! I think it's perfectly fine to have a venue for people to talk long form instead of out barking each other on 24hr opinion shows.

    Yes, and...WhiteZinfandelSolventKoopahTroopah
  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    did bernie actually say good stuff to counter some of rogan's other guests because in the past I have been extremely disappointed in his ability to explain why things like racism are bad for society and antithetical to socialism

    2vue7ao.png
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Ninjeff wrote: »
    Jephery wrote: »
    i think the worst you can say about him is that he doesn't know much about anything so can't do much but let the guest control the conversation.

    Thats basically all his interviews. He lets them just say whatever to a huge audience. Right wingers see that for the opportunity it is.

    And so do left wingers.
    Which is great! I think it's perfectly fine to have a venue for people to talk long form instead of out barking each other on 24hr opinion shows.

    Left wingers usually do, its liberals who are having a hard time with it.

    Meeqe
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    did bernie actually say good stuff to counter some of rogan's other guests because in the past I have been extremely disappointed in his ability to explain why things like racism are bad for society and antithetical to socialism

    They mostly just talked surface level policies and world view kind of stuff.

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    I am also pretty compelled by the argument that knocking on doors is broadly more useful than any national media

    2vue7ao.png
    Styrofoam SammichCrimson KingCaptain InertiaElldren
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    did bernie actually say good stuff to counter some of rogan's other guests because in the past I have been extremely disappointed in his ability to explain why things like racism are bad for society and antithetical to socialism

    Only a couple of people participating in the thread seem to have actually watched/listened to the interview, while the rest of us haven't been able to escape the gravitational pull of just the pure theory of ethics of going on the show to even get into the actual coverage.

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
    Styrofoam SammichCrimson King
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    At some point social and media penetration has to be attempted towards people stuck in the right wing media bubble. If Rogan's podcast is at the intersection of media bubbles then its not a bad place to start.

    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
    TryCatcherStyrofoam Sammich
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    This kind of stuff is a large part of why Sanders has been able to appeal to people outside Democratic norms. He actually goes to them.

    JuliusMeeqe
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Also, is funny that one of the oldest guys on the race is the one adapting to the changing media landscape. Like, if you think that things will go back to the point where the Respectable MSM are the only game in town and the bad man will go away, got a bridge to sell you. Magical thinking about how manners will make things get back to normal and the vulgarians go away gets routinely pooh-pooh'ed when it comes to Congress, but everybody has the knives out against Sanders because this is yet another Sanders Going Against The Party fight, with the same people on both sides of the table.

    Styrofoam SammichAridholFrankiedarling
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    Jephery wrote: »
    At some point social and media penetration has to be attempted towards people stuck in the right wing media bubble. If Rogan's podcast is at the intersection of media bubbles then its not a bad place to start.

    I think there's a risk that, for a lot of folks, when we start talking about "bubbles" it starts to trigger that reflex about being told how we're the ones who have to go outside of our echo chambers and our bubbles and listen to the other side or such.


    When the tactic at play is "No, you actually need to go take the fight to inside their bubble if you want to gain ground again instead of stagnating at best in the status quo that's destroying lives as the Republicans try to turn the country into a Neo Confederacy."

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
    TryCatcher
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited August 9
    I don't think anyone gains any ground going on Fox News, Breitbart, Linbaugh, etc., those people are way too in control and self-aware to let you get away anything that goes against their narrative.

    But Rogan's none of that and if he has some right-wing viewers, then having an uncontrolled interview with liberal/left people is good.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    Jephery wrote: »
    I don't think anyone gains any ground going on Fox News, Breitbart, Linbaugh, etc., those people are way too in control and self-aware to let you get away anything that goes against their narrative.

    But Rogan's none of that and if he has some right-wing viewers, then having an uncontrolled interview with liberals/left people is good.

    I think that's the area where strategy comes into play. I doubt the latter two would even accept the idea of such an engagement; Fox News obviously you had the town hall, but the others are a much more controlled partisan environment that isn't likely to accept dissent even in the context of a debate, let alone a calm discussion

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • Yes, and...Yes, and... Registered User regular
    edited August 9
    Ninjeff wrote: »
    From someone who listens to most of Joe Rogans podcast, I feel like I have to reiterate how wrong most of you are.

    From a personal space, nothing has done more to drive me away from "the left" than discussions exactly like this one. Where is is clear -to me at least- that so many aren't at all interested in any type of discussion that voids a preconceived notion. People seem downright convinced that Rogan is some bastion of alt right that no amount of me, a person who listens and knows that isn't the case, can away them.
    I guess growing up in the Bush2 era and working to get Obama elected I really honestly believed that the left was the party of reason and civility and discourse.
    But stuff like the rampant insistence that Rogan is some alt right shill just....
    Kind of make me ask what happened to the party I used to believe in.

    Rogan has left leaning views on damn near everything, Bernie did a good job and so have a plethora of other people on the JRE. After years of listening to his podcast my views (politicaly) haven't changed but threads like this with so much wailing and gnashing of teeth just really make me feel terribly lonely here in my middle left seat.
    I swear we didn't used to be so goddamn afraid of everyone even if they didn't 100% line up with us.

    Personal anicdote? All my friends that were "bleeding heart liberals" are starting to feel the same way. Any democratic candidate will have our vote this election, but I swear hardcore left rhetoric is going to leave tons of voters off the table in the congressional elections which is really where the progress needs to happen.

    One problem I do have with Rogan is that his "liberals are the fun police" shtick just ignores huge sections of left wing opinion, writing, etc that doesn't have a hectoring, moralistic tone.

    Edit: I'm not a regular listener, but my partner is, so I may be off the mark but I'm going by what she tells me.

    Yes, and... on
    dispatch.oFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud
  • JuliusJulius Registered User regular
    Kamar wrote: »
    I think it's important to point out that Rogan is notable as one of the big name entry points people take from mainstream and mainstream-ish news sources into the alt-right ecosystem.

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/59ade5/inside-youtubes-alt-media-ecosystem

    The success of his Sanders episode above and beyond his normal success indicates that he's getting new views from Sanders more than Sanders is getting new views in front of Rogan's audience.

    Putting aside the ethics of endorsing by appearance a show that, by whatever magic, tends to lead people down the alt-right rabit hole, I think there's a pragmatic concern that Sanders Democrats who start watching Rogan might end up moving closer to the Bernie Bro of myth.

    I'm sorry but this is the second post in this thread and is referenced a lot and it says none of the shit people say it does. I know it mentions Joe Rogan in the title, but asserting that his show is some sort of dangerous entry point into the far right community is absurd.

    This is the graph from the report the article is based on:

    1537984264903-Screen-Shot-2018-09-26-at-15024-PM.png?resize=1050:*

    If you're having trouble spotting Rogan, he is there on the outside left with all of 2 lines connected. His square is very light orange and small, indicating he has few connections and is not likely to connect other content creators through mutual collaboration. (Unsurprising considering the format of his show.) He is compared with Dave Rubin but he is on the absolute fringe of this alt right ecosystem whereas Rubin is way more connected.

    Sure Rogan is on there with some connections. He has also had over 466 different guests and 1300+ episodes. He has problematic views for sure but he is not actually the kind of fucker that most of those others in that graph are.

    rahkeesh2000FrankiedarlinguserpainfulPleasanceKoopahTroopahStabbity Style
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    I mean I'm not super suprised if "what about the times we don't badger people" doesnt hold much water.

    FrankiedarlingpainfulPleasanceKraint
  • NinjeffNinjeff Registered User regular
    Ninjeff wrote: »
    From someone who listens to most of Joe Rogans podcast, I feel like I have to reiterate how wrong most of you are.

    From a personal space, nothing has done more to drive me away from "the left" than discussions exactly like this one. Where is is clear -to me at least- that so many aren't at all interested in any type of discussion that voids a preconceived notion. People seem downright convinced that Rogan is some bastion of alt right that no amount of me, a person who listens and knows that isn't the case, can away them.
    I guess growing up in the Bush2 era and working to get Obama elected I really honestly believed that the left was the party of reason and civility and discourse.
    But stuff like the rampant insistence that Rogan is some alt right shill just....
    Kind of make me ask what happened to the party I used to believe in.

    Rogan has left leaning views on damn near everything, Bernie did a good job and so have a plethora of other people on the JRE. After years of listening to his podcast my views (politicaly) haven't changed but threads like this with so much wailing and gnashing of teeth just really make me feel terribly lonely here in my middle left seat.
    I swear we didn't used to be so goddamn afraid of everyone even if they didn't 100% line up with us.

    Personal anicdote? All my friends that were "bleeding heart liberals" are starting to feel the same way. Any democratic candidate will have our vote this election, but I swear hardcore left rhetoric is going to leave tons of voters off the table in the congressional elections which is really where the progress needs to happen.

    One problem I do have with Rogan is that his "liberals are the fun police" shtick just ignores huge sections of left wing opinion, writing, etc that doesn't have a hectoring, moralistic tone.

    Edit: I'm not a regular listener, but my partner is, so I may be off the mark but I'm going by what she tells me.

    That's sort of right. Mainly that comes from him being a comedian, and not bowing to people that have a less that altruistic read on some comedy and use that as a form of virtue signaling.
    He has too many left leaning comedians on for him to really declare the left "fun police"

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Making people like Joe Rogan popular ~ getting democrats elected to high office ... pretty good trade. I think in this case, the ends justify the means so much that if Bernie wins, we'll all be retroactively idiots for not trying this before.

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    It looks like he's in a similar space as O'Keefe

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    It looks like he's in a similar space as O'Keefe

    If we're thinking of the same O'Keefe I don't think that's right.

    JuliuspainfulPleasance
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    It looks like he's in a similar space as O'Keefe

    If we're thinking of the same O'Keefe I don't think that's right.

    He has similar number of webs and so on.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • Yes, and...Yes, and... Registered User regular
    Ninjeff wrote: »
    Ninjeff wrote: »
    From someone who listens to most of Joe Rogans podcast, I feel like I have to reiterate how wrong most of you are.

    From a personal space, nothing has done more to drive me away from "the left" than discussions exactly like this one. Where is is clear -to me at least- that so many aren't at all interested in any type of discussion that voids a preconceived notion. People seem downright convinced that Rogan is some bastion of alt right that no amount of me, a person who listens and knows that isn't the case, can away them.
    I guess growing up in the Bush2 era and working to get Obama elected I really honestly believed that the left was the party of reason and civility and discourse.
    But stuff like the rampant insistence that Rogan is some alt right shill just....
    Kind of make me ask what happened to the party I used to believe in.

    Rogan has left leaning views on damn near everything, Bernie did a good job and so have a plethora of other people on the JRE. After years of listening to his podcast my views (politicaly) haven't changed but threads like this with so much wailing and gnashing of teeth just really make me feel terribly lonely here in my middle left seat.
    I swear we didn't used to be so goddamn afraid of everyone even if they didn't 100% line up with us.

    Personal anicdote? All my friends that were "bleeding heart liberals" are starting to feel the same way. Any democratic candidate will have our vote this election, but I swear hardcore left rhetoric is going to leave tons of voters off the table in the congressional elections which is really where the progress needs to happen.

    One problem I do have with Rogan is that his "liberals are the fun police" shtick just ignores huge sections of left wing opinion, writing, etc that doesn't have a hectoring, moralistic tone.

    Edit: I'm not a regular listener, but my partner is, so I may be off the mark but I'm going by what she tells me.

    That's sort of right. Mainly that comes from him being a comedian, and not bowing to people that have a less that altruistic read on some comedy and use that as a form of virtue signaling.
    He has too many left leaning comedians on for him to really declare the left "fun police"

    Fair enough. I guess for you the thing to bear in mind is that just because Rogan is making fun of someone, that doesn't mean they're actually important, effective or representatives. Some people here may fit into the mold you're complaining about, but hashtag not all leftists, you know?

  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited August 9
    I don't think that webs fair to Rogan since he'd bacon number into the whole English speaking world in a few steps. (mostly joking)

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
    Julius
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Ninjeff wrote: »
    From someone who listens to most of Joe Rogans podcast, I feel like I have to reiterate how wrong most of you are.

    From a personal space, nothing has done more to drive me away from "the left" than discussions exactly like this one. Where is is clear -to me at least- that so many aren't at all interested in any type of discussion that voids a preconceived notion. People seem downright convinced that Rogan is some bastion of alt right that no amount of me, a person who listens and knows that isn't the case, can away them.
    I guess growing up in the Bush2 era and working to get Obama elected I really honestly believed that the left was the party of reason and civility and discourse.
    But stuff like the rampant insistence that Rogan is some alt right shill just....
    Kind of make me ask what happened to the party I used to believe in.

    Rogan has left leaning views on damn near everything, Bernie did a good job and so have a plethora of other people on the JRE. After years of listening to his podcast my views (politicaly) haven't changed but threads like this with so much wailing and gnashing of teeth just really make me feel terribly lonely here in my middle left seat.
    I swear we didn't used to be so goddamn afraid of everyone even if they didn't 100% line up with us.

    Personal anicdote? All my friends that were "bleeding heart liberals" are starting to feel the same way. Any democratic candidate will have our vote this election, but I swear hardcore left rhetoric is going to leave tons of voters off the table in the congressional elections which is really where the progress needs to happen.

    First off, let me point out an example you gave in an earlier post - that he's supportive of trans rights except that he believes that biology should be used to determine who can compete against who. This is actually an incredibly transphobic position to hold - if you want to see the actual harm this mentality causes, I recommend you read up about Caster Semenya, a South African runner who has spent her entire career fighting against the sort of attitude Rogan pushes so that she can actually compete.

    Second, you keep saying he has liberal views - yet he keeps giving a platform to those who are opposed to those views. If you really believe in feminism, you don't give a platform to Jordan Peterson - a man who has made a career out of giving a pseudointellectual varnish to misogyny. If you really believe in religious tolerance, you don't give a platform to Sam Harris - a neuroscientist who demonstrates the Dunning-Kruger Effect by acting as if his knowledge in one field means that he can opine about Islam without coming across as a clueless Islamophobe. People aren't afraid of these individuals - they're tired of others allowing them to dehumanize people and expecting that their bigotry should be treated as just another opinion.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    He also has Ben Shapiro on and he's also a huge transphobe anti woman bigot.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited August 9
    I think its ok since he doesn't platform those people all of the time. It isn't like he's calling up Republican taking head #X for the millionth time.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
    Julius
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Jephery wrote: »
    I think its ok since he doesn't platform those people all of the time. It isn't like he'll calling up Republican taking head #X for the millionth time.

    This is literally saying "hey, it's okay, he only gives bigots the floor a quarter of the time."

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited August 9
    Jephery wrote: »
    I think its ok since he doesn't platform those people all of the time. It isn't like he'll calling up Republican taking head #X for the millionth time.

    This is literally saying "hey, it's okay, he only gives bigots the floor a quarter of the time."

    Its still not the "different bigot every night show," and if the floor is open to the our side then we should take the floor too, unless we want it to become the bigot every night show.

    Jephery on
    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
    Styrofoam SammichJuliusMeeqe
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Ninjeff wrote: »
    From someone who listens to most of Joe Rogans podcast, I feel like I have to reiterate how wrong most of you are.

    From a personal space, nothing has done more to drive me away from "the left" than discussions exactly like this one. Where is is clear -to me at least- that so many aren't at all interested in any type of discussion that voids a preconceived notion. People seem downright convinced that Rogan is some bastion of alt right that no amount of me, a person who listens and knows that isn't the case, can away them.
    I guess growing up in the Bush2 era and working to get Obama elected I really honestly believed that the left was the party of reason and civility and discourse.
    But stuff like the rampant insistence that Rogan is some alt right shill just....
    Kind of make me ask what happened to the party I used to believe in.

    Rogan has left leaning views on damn near everything, Bernie did a good job and so have a plethora of other people on the JRE. After years of listening to his podcast my views (politicaly) haven't changed but threads like this with so much wailing and gnashing of teeth just really make me feel terribly lonely here in my middle left seat.
    I swear we didn't used to be so goddamn afraid of everyone even if they didn't 100% line up with us.

    Personal anicdote? All my friends that were "bleeding heart liberals" are starting to feel the same way. Any democratic candidate will have our vote this election, but I swear hardcore left rhetoric is going to leave tons of voters off the table in the congressional elections which is really where the progress needs to happen.

    First off, let me point out an example you gave in an earlier post - that he's supportive of trans rights except that he believes that biology should be used to determine who can compete against who. This is actually an incredibly transphobic position to hold - if you want to see the actual harm this mentality causes, I recommend you read up about Caster Semenya, a South African runner who has spent her entire career fighting against the sort of attitude Rogan pushes so that she can actually compete.

    Second, you keep saying he has liberal views - yet he keeps giving a platform to those who are opposed to those views. If you really believe in feminism, you don't give a platform to Jordan Peterson - a man who has made a career out of giving a pseudointellectual varnish to misogyny. If you really believe in religious tolerance, you don't give a platform to Sam Harris - a neuroscientist who demonstrates the Dunning-Kruger Effect by acting as if his knowledge in one field means that he can opine about Islam without coming across as a clueless Islamophobe. People aren't afraid of these individuals - they're tired of others allowing them to dehumanize people and expecting that their bigotry should be treated as just another opinion.

    Guess democrats should only go on shows hosted by other Good Democrats then or something. Only talking to people we agree with seems like a surefire path to success.

    Aridholrahkeesh2000FrankiedarlingYamiB.painfulPleasanceMeeqe
  • NinjeffNinjeff Registered User regular
    Turns out one can have liberal views and still converse with people of different views. And it's ok.

    I mean no personal offense by this but, your opinion of Rogan is so off base, that I really can't trust your opinion of Patterson and Harris either. since I'm willing to bet you've never really listened to Rogan, I can also bet you've never listened to Peterson or Harris either.

    Heck, if you had, you'd have heard their refudiation of your accusations first hand. Now, Peterson is a little too right leaning for me, but I can still glean something from him. Like his "hey, if your life is shitty, start small. Clean up your room. Now do another small step, and another, and so on"
    Now, even if I don't agree with all his politics, that's a good thing for me to hear lately! For me, I don't have to agree with everything he says to still tune in to something I can use to make myself a better person.

    In business I see and talk to a TON of people that differ politicaly from me, I have to be able to still learn and communicate with those people even if we pull different levers. In fact, it's the only sane way to go about the world in my opinion.

    As for Harris, well, I'm an atheist so...

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  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    i'm watching the rogan interview right now and bernie is getting a friendlier reception from this guy than he has from basically the entire democratic party thus far. i've never listened to rogan before but he definitely does not come across as some kind of slavering alt-right psycho

    there's a huge demographic of people out there who don't really give a shit about left and right, they basically just don't like the establishment. they're not as hostile to jordan peterson, etc, as you would like them to be in an ideal world, but they're absolutely winnable for the left as long as you frame your platform in a specifically anti-establishment way

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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    Jephery wrote: »
    I think its ok since he doesn't platform those people all of the time. It isn't like he'll calling up Republican taking head #X for the millionth time.

    This is literally saying "hey, it's okay, he only gives bigots the floor a quarter of the time."

    What if we want to purely use his platform to broach ideas in that listener ecosystem because he still has a reach of 6 million who can be vectors for those ideas following the episode?

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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    This is one of those things where the best method will show itself in time. If going on Joe Rogan's show means you get the message out there to people that are convinced which beats out the people you lose with the moral compromise, then it isn't really a moral compromise. You've undeniably shepherded new people to your cause, and the purists were wrong all along.

    However, if you don't get any new support and the people who reject your actions are indeed stronger in number, then you've sacrificed your principles for little benefit.

    It's just a numbers game. We'll see how it plays out.

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    Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
    Yes, and...
  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    peterson is full of shit but if you're trying to do political strategy you have to be able to read 12 rules for life and go "aha, i see why a normal person would believe this"

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  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    I think the Democrats and the Left put too much effort into the formal and academic spaces, the classroom, the journal, the newspaper, etc., only to have all of that discredited by the Right.

    So we have to get down into the vulgar spaces. Like Rogan's podcast.

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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    What if we just want to use an available, popular media platform to fight for necessary changes?

    Like honest to god, I don't listen to his show and have little interest in his guests and their spiels outside of Sanders, but at some point we have to be willing to walk into the damn lions den if we want to actually fix this country.

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