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Overwatch: Class queue inc! New hero Sigma!

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Posts

  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    Two quick clips:

    One, a sombra and I managed to actually coordinate ults using only the ult-charged emote, that was cool. Teamwork, what a concept!



    Second, how did I kill this roadhog? I assume I accidentally knocked him off the edge, but I'm not sure why it isn't a concussion blast indicator in the kill log.

    Chance
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat Brave Sir Robin Registered User regular
    soylenth wrote: »
    Second, how did I kill this roadhog? I assume I accidentally knocked him off the edge, but I'm not sure why it isn't a concussion blast indicator in the kill log.


    He probably got bumped off by a regular rocket, but had some weird air strafing happen that lead to him falling slowly.

    3clipse wrote: »
    God is dead and life has no purpose.
    soylenthChance
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    Makes sense, ty!

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    Pailryder wrote: »
    I am still a believer that barriers should not be walls, they should be dampeners. So they reduce damage until they are dispelled (used up), but never block 100%.

    I'm of the opposite opinion in that I think shields should actually be hard cover like Mei's wall and each tank has a different form of it. So instead of Orissa throwing out a big one-way shield, she puts cover onto the field. Still blocks enemy (and also allied, since it's an actual barrier) shots, but it can also work for the enemy if you spam it and place it badly. Not necessarily cover of the same size/shape as the shields we have now, but cover that provides a similar role (Orissa lets you bunker up versus Sigma being good for a push) per tank.

    Would discourage shield wars because the cover protects in both directions (making it pointless to drop a shield in front of an enemy shield, because neither of you can shoot through the cover) and also adds a dynamically changing cover element to every point of confrontation.

    And you wouldn't necessarily need it for every shield tank, but I think it would be a good change over every tank having either a shield or nothing when it comes to barriers. Maybe keep the likes of Rein and Winton with actual shields, but then change Sigma and Orissa to moving cover around the battlefield. It would also mean those two tanks have a tradeoff for being able to project shields and fire at the same time, since they would no longer be carrying this awesome one-way protection and would have to work around their own cover.



    My kneejerk reaction to that is there's too many things on the field to take cover behind as is. But... cover was my initial idea for a Torb rework. Take away his torret.

    Instead he throws out a thing the size of Reinhardt tall and wide, but only about 1m thick, which can be juked around and used as cover. Like a Mei wall it has a set amount of HP, the idea being Torb is still a "builder," but fuck not needing to aim to get value in a PvP FPS.

    And that now gives me an idea to rework Sym.

    Turrets now deal 2x slow to a single target within range, turrets no longer deal damange. Ummmn yeahhhh.

    Chance on
    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    I've got zero issue with turrets as moderate deterrents, particularly with Torb's turret tuned down like it is. Virtually anybody can easily overcome his turret, but it gives the nice utility of pointing out flankers and whatnot. The damage from it barely even registers in a big push, and it can't even go anywhere obnoxious like Sym turrets. And no, flankers should not get a free pass to flank just because that's their role; everything in the game should have a counterplay.

    BloodySloth
  • SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    Concerning the win rate chart on the last page: keep in mind that Sym and Zarya already have a nerf on deck to bring down their damage. Yes they're overturned due to a bug fix and they are in line to be brought back to a reasonable place.

    soylenthFencingsax
  • TexiKenTexiKen Registered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »
    I am still a believer that barriers should not be walls, they should be dampeners. So they reduce damage until they are dispelled (used up), but never block 100%.

    Pailryder wrote: »
    I am still a believer that barriers should not be walls, they should be dampeners. So they reduce damage until they are dispelled (used up), but never block 100%.

    I'm of the opposite opinion in that I think shields should actually be hard cover like Mei's wall and each tank has a different form of it. So instead of Orissa throwing out a big one-way shield, she puts cover onto the field. Still blocks enemy (and also allied, since it's an actual barrier) shots, but it can also work for the enemy if you spam it and place it badly. Not necessarily cover of the same size/shape as the shields we have now, but cover that provides a similar role (Orissa lets you bunker up versus Sigma being good for a push) per tank.

    Would discourage shield wars because the cover protects in both directions (making it pointless to drop a shield in front of an enemy shield, because neither of you can shoot through the cover) and also adds a dynamically changing cover element to every point of confrontation.

    And you wouldn't necessarily need it for every shield tank, but I think it would be a good change over every tank having either a shield or nothing when it comes to barriers. Maybe keep the likes of Rein and Winton with actual shields, but then change Sigma and Orissa to moving cover around the battlefield. It would also mean those two tanks have a tradeoff for being able to project shields and fire at the same time, since they would no longer be carrying this awesome one-way protection and would have to work around their own cover.



    I really like both of those options so Blizzard should pick one of them.

    eb3XA8M.png
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    Turning shields into damage dampeners would make them really hard to read for new/casual players, I think. You'd get a lot of people bitching that shields do nothing because you can die behind one, even if the dampening effect was really large.

  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    Ha, what a "surprise", Reaper and Sym are the dominant picks across the board. It's almost like their wildly imbalanced right now.

    Kinda surprised to see Zen is that prevalent, considering Zarya is apparently also quite prevalent and would be knocking off his discord orbs all the time. Not at all surprised to see so much Moira, seeing as she's about the only way to reliably get healing or damage through shields.

    Any Zarya who bubbles solely in response to Discord is literally throwing away a bubble for free unless it's an escape action

    I'm assuming the main reason why Zen is a popular pick is that he adds the most damage towards the barrier race while still contributing to heals and debuffs

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    soylenth wrote: »
    Second, how did I kill this roadhog? I assume I accidentally knocked him off the edge, but I'm not sure why it isn't a concussion blast indicator in the kill log.


    He probably got bumped off by a regular rocket, but had some weird air strafing happen that lead to him falling slowly.

    I once got a terrible PotG for meleeing a Genji just before he jumped off the map, after Pulsing Orisa. It was technically an enviro kill!

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    The Escape Goatsoylenth
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Yeah, I'm just dropping the game until Sym and Reaper are fixed, I'm sick of every match coming down to which side picks one or both of them. It's just fucking boring, they need to just be patched now and not wait for the normal scheduling.

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat Brave Sir Robin Registered User regular
    Oh, that reminds me, I've got a few clips I wanted to post. First, the ol' Goat Special:


    And then an ult that just tickled me for some reason:

    3clipse wrote: »
    God is dead and life has no purpose.
    Chance
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    If they made shields into cover then I hope you'd atleast be able to move through them. Having Sigma + Orisa just wall off a choke indefinitely be pretty nuts.

    Twitch - Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224
    soylenth
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    My Sigma is slowly starting to get better.

    That said I'm not sure how other Sigmas get value out of rock in double shield meta. Like I never have anything to throw it at...and throwing it at a shield seems like a waste of a cooldown.

    Chance
  • CoinageCoinage The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter Registered User regular
  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I mean I think Moira and Sym have always had high win rates(high impact+easy to use)

    And Sym had the highest win rate even when barely anyone was picking her.

    So yeah...meta and all that but it isn't that unusual.

    Probably the reason Zen is also on there even though he's weak rn. He's the only support who really compensates for bad dps.

    Sym is a bit different because she was previously used situationally when she was strong unlike heroes who were universally strong.

    Now, her win rate has stayed crazy high even as her usage has skyrocketed. This is good evidence that she is universally rather than situationally strong. So it is a new, unusual phenomenon for the hero.

    Chance
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited September 12
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    My Sigma is slowly starting to get better.

    That said I'm not sure how other Sigmas get value out of rock in double shield meta. Like I never have anything to throw it at...and throwing it at a shield seems like a waste of a cooldown.

    I'll throw it at a shield to help break it, absent any other targets, but it's a bit of a risk. might be on cooldown when I need it a couple seconds later. I've been using it to stop wrecking balls doing the "tetherball on the point" thing and it's very satisfying for that. I really love playing him though. Accretion is just so satisfying to use on so many obnoxious characters, and if you can track with the primary fire it really sends them running if not kills them dead.

    soylenth on
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    sanstodo wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I mean I think Moira and Sym have always had high win rates(high impact+easy to use)

    And Sym had the highest win rate even when barely anyone was picking her.

    So yeah...meta and all that but it isn't that unusual.

    Probably the reason Zen is also on there even though he's weak rn. He's the only support who really compensates for bad dps.

    Sym is a bit different because she was previously used situationally when she was strong unlike heroes who were universally strong.

    Now, her win rate has stayed crazy high even as her usage has skyrocketed. This is good evidence that she is universally rather than situationally strong. So it is a new, unusual phenomenon for the hero.

    the other team got two of them in MH last night. It was not fun.

  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    sanstodo wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I mean I think Moira and Sym have always had high win rates(high impact+easy to use)

    And Sym had the highest win rate even when barely anyone was picking her.

    So yeah...meta and all that but it isn't that unusual.

    Probably the reason Zen is also on there even though he's weak rn. He's the only support who really compensates for bad dps.

    Sym is a bit different because she was previously used situationally when she was strong unlike heroes who were universally strong.

    Now, her win rate has stayed crazy high even as her usage has skyrocketed. This is good evidence that she is universally rather than situationally strong. So it is a new, unusual phenomenon for the hero.

    The big use is to counter alts. Moira, Hog, Reaper, etc. If they walk into your team ulting you can rock them and knock them out of it. Also I will often just throw it at a tank to disrupt them for a sec.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    soylenth wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    My Sigma is slowly starting to get better.

    That said I'm not sure how other Sigmas get value out of rock in double shield meta. Like I never have anything to throw it at...and throwing it at a shield seems like a waste of a cooldown.

    I'll throw it at a shield to help break it, absent any other targets, but it's a bit of a risk. might be on cooldown when I need it a couple seconds later. I've been using it to stop wrecking balls doing the "tetherball on the point" thing and it's very satisfying for that. I really love playing him though. Accretion is just so satisfying to use on so many obnoxious characters, and if you can track with the primary fire it really sends them running if not kills them dead.

    The big players in the double-barrier meta in terms of DPS are Reaper, Mei, Symmetra, and Doomfist, and besides Symmetra all three of them have a game plan of trying to walk through the barrier and start doing things to your team at close range. Stunning Reaper interrupts his self-sustain by keeping him from damaging you, stunning Mei gives your team an opportunity to stop freezing, and stunning Doomfist stops him from getting Best Defense procs and might blow up one of his cooldowns, effectively stopping him from getting a pick on that cycle. Accretion is your backstop when the enemy breaks through or walks past the barrier.

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
    soylenthDevoutlyApathetic
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited September 12
    good point! Knocking an ulting Moira or Reaper down is also very satisfying.

    soylenth on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    soylenth wrote: »
    good point! Knocking an ulting Moira or Reaper down is also very satisfying.

    As a moira, it is infuriating. as is the hook.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    soylenthTim is on the InternetThe Escape Goat
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited September 13
    sanstodo wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I mean I think Moira and Sym have always had high win rates(high impact+easy to use)

    And Sym had the highest win rate even when barely anyone was picking her.

    So yeah...meta and all that but it isn't that unusual.

    Probably the reason Zen is also on there even though he's weak rn. He's the only support who really compensates for bad dps.

    Sym is a bit different because she was previously used situationally when she was strong unlike heroes who were universally strong.

    Now, her win rate has stayed crazy high even as her usage has skyrocketed. This is good evidence that she is universally rather than situationally strong. So it is a new, unusual phenomenon for the hero.

    Still not sure about that.

    She always had carry potential at low levels that isn't new. Her turrets and people poor positioning made for easy pickoffs.

    At high levels a lot of double barrier is being played meaning she stays full charge.

    I'm not denying she is strong but I'm not gonna hop on the OP train just cause the current meta suits her.

    Dragkonias on
  • CoinageCoinage The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter Registered User regular
    They're nerfing Symmetra's damage next patch because she's been been doing 20% more damage per 10 since the bugfix, so I'm pretty sure she's op

    l5pfwe2qivac.jpg
    sanstodosoylenth
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    I don't really care about that. But honestly once she's brought down folks will just find the next thing to complain about so *shrug*.

    Kwoaru
  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    Finished my tank placements, first time I've done Comp actually, and got a SR of 1997. Could have been worse!

    Next up is support.

    Chance
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat Brave Sir Robin Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    soylenth wrote: »
    good point! Knocking an ulting Moira or Reaper down is also very satisfying.

    As a moira, it is infuriating. as is the hook.

    The best thing about Moiras is they take their hands off the keyboard when ulting so they don't even fade after you hook 'em out of it.

    3clipse wrote: »
    God is dead and life has no purpose.
  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I don't really care about that. But honestly once she's brought down folks will just find the next thing to complain about so *shrug*.

    If you don’t care that a hero is doing 20% more dmg than intended, then I have no idea why you’re commenting about balance.

    Anyway, OWL playoffs continue to be interesting. NYXL v Vancouver tonight is gonna be hype.

  • CoinageCoinage The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter Registered User regular
    We just have to pray it's Monte and Doa up for the rotation and not Semmler and Hex

    l5pfwe2qivac.jpg
  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    We just have to pray it's Monte and Doa up for the rotation and not Semmler and Hex

    It’s just nice to see NYXL actually understand the meta and pioneer strategies. Although I’m sad seeing Jjonak off zen, libero’s DF is fun and nutty (he uses it more to protect his teammates from opposing heroes like reaper and DF to make space for his tanks).

    Also it makes sense that SBB’s tracking on bastion would be good given his skill on tracer. I’m all in on NYXL (grew up in New York) although Vancouver has prob been the better team overall this season.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited September 13
    sanstodo wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I don't really care about that. But honestly once she's brought down folks will just find the next thing to complain about so *shrug*.

    If you don’t care that a hero is doing 20% more dmg than intended, then I have no idea why you’re commenting about balance.

    Anyway, OWL playoffs continue to be interesting. NYXL v Vancouver tonight is gonna be hype.

    I don't care that the she's getting changed. It seems fair enough.

    But honestly a lot of the characters(Symmetra aside if I need to make that clear) folks complain about have been the way they are for a while.

    It was just people started to realize they were good, and started crying for nerfs, when pro players used them.

    Which is silly and reactionary to me.

    Dragkonias on
    Kwoaru
  • soylenthsoylenth Portland, ORRegistered User regular
    edited September 13
    Well, I one-tricked Sym to get my dps ranking back into gold so I have no complaints atm.

    Also, starting to think tanks are so in demand because healers are treating healer queue as healy dps queue. I had several games where I'm not sure I heard the "you are being healed" sound for more than a fraction of a second.

    soylenth on
    Pailryder
  • SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    sanstodo wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I don't really care about that. But honestly once she's brought down folks will just find the next thing to complain about so *shrug*.

    If you don’t care that a hero is doing 20% more dmg than intended, then I have no idea why you’re commenting about balance.

    Anyway, OWL playoffs continue to be interesting. NYXL v Vancouver tonight is gonna be hype.

    I don't care that the she's getting changed. It seems fair enough.

    But honestly a lot of the characters(Symmetra aside if I need to make that clear) folks complain about have been the way they are for a while.

    It was just people started to realize they were good, and started crying for nerfs, when pro players used them.

    Which is silly and reactionary to me.

    Well when the popular picks change, someone's heroes that weren't OP against, say, Ball are now very good against multiple static shields. Balance changes with the meta, that's how it works.

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    SirToasty wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    sanstodo wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I don't really care about that. But honestly once she's brought down folks will just find the next thing to complain about so *shrug*.

    If you don’t care that a hero is doing 20% more dmg than intended, then I have no idea why you’re commenting about balance.

    Anyway, OWL playoffs continue to be interesting. NYXL v Vancouver tonight is gonna be hype.

    I don't care that the she's getting changed. It seems fair enough.

    But honestly a lot of the characters(Symmetra aside if I need to make that clear) folks complain about have been the way they are for a while.

    It was just people started to realize they were good, and started crying for nerfs, when pro players used them.

    Which is silly and reactionary to me.

    Well when the popular picks change, someone's heroes that weren't OP against, say, Ball are now very good against multiple static shields. Balance changes with the meta, that's how it works.

    Assuming that the meta represents the new reality of the game though and not a passing trend, you still have to adjust for it. That's what caused probably most of the balance changes over the life of the game.

  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    Two more reports got action. Feels good. Glad to see blizzard taking racism and sexism seriously.

    Pailryder
  • SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    SirToasty wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    sanstodo wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I don't really care about that. But honestly once she's brought down folks will just find the next thing to complain about so *shrug*.

    If you don’t care that a hero is doing 20% more dmg than intended, then I have no idea why you’re commenting about balance.

    Anyway, OWL playoffs continue to be interesting. NYXL v Vancouver tonight is gonna be hype.

    I don't care that the she's getting changed. It seems fair enough.

    But honestly a lot of the characters(Symmetra aside if I need to make that clear) folks complain about have been the way they are for a while.

    It was just people started to realize they were good, and started crying for nerfs, when pro players used them.

    Which is silly and reactionary to me.

    Well when the popular picks change, someone's heroes that weren't OP against, say, Ball are now very good against multiple static shields. Balance changes with the meta, that's how it works.

    Assuming that the meta represents the new reality of the game though and not a passing trend, you still have to adjust for it. That's what caused probably most of the balance changes over the life of the game.

    Oh I agree, I'm saying that the argument of "well they weren't OP before" is a weak argument.

  • McMoogleMcMoogle Registered User regular
    sanstodo wrote: »
    Two more reports got action. Feels good. Glad to see blizzard taking racism and sexism seriously.

    Well, them telling you they did something at any rate.

    steam_sig.png
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    SirToasty wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    sanstodo wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I don't really care about that. But honestly once she's brought down folks will just find the next thing to complain about so *shrug*.

    If you don’t care that a hero is doing 20% more dmg than intended, then I have no idea why you’re commenting about balance.

    Anyway, OWL playoffs continue to be interesting. NYXL v Vancouver tonight is gonna be hype.

    I don't care that the she's getting changed. It seems fair enough.

    But honestly a lot of the characters(Symmetra aside if I need to make that clear) folks complain about have been the way they are for a while.

    It was just people started to realize they were good, and started crying for nerfs, when pro players used them.

    Which is silly and reactionary to me.

    Well when the popular picks change, someone's heroes that weren't OP against, say, Ball are now very good against multiple static shields. Balance changes with the meta, that's how it works.

    I'm not disagreeing with this?

    Like I said there is a difference between being good or very good with a meta and being OP.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Went 5 and 2 with Zen last night. Felt peaceful.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    soylenthBRIAN BLESSED
  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Went 5 and 2 with Zen last night. Felt peaceful.

    Sounds like you.....ahem....embraced tranquillity.

    soylenthKoopahTroopah
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