Overwatch: Echo Revealed

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  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited March 20
    Now they need to remember to actually put things in the patch notes though.

    Like, did you know that they added a lock-confirm option for Ana's ult (and Echo's) in the PTR (and forgot to include it)? So accidentally boosting Lucio or Mercy is now a thing of the past. It even works at infinite distance and follows the same rules as Zen's orbs for detaching, so you don't need line of sight. That alone is a pretty strong buff to Ana.

    ArcTangent on
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Lock-on confirm? What? I think I need a video to understand this.

    Like Ana fires her Nano at Mercy and a popup appears, freezing the game, asking if she's sure?

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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited March 20
    Chance wrote: »
    Lock-on confirm? What? I think I need a video to understand this.

    Like Ana fires her Nano at Mercy and a popup appears, freezing the game, asking if she's sure?

    You press it once and it locks to the currently targeted character. Then LMB to fire it (even if they've left LoS) or RMB to cancel.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/flmdzv/ana_can_now_confirm_nano_and_send_it_without_line/

    ArcTangent on
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  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    I assume they're referring to the UI highlighting the player you're aiming at when the ultimate is ready to go

    Which I agree is a really nice quality of life thing to do

  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    You can set an option where you can pre-target nanoboost. You hit Q, target the person you want, then hit m1. The next time you hit Q it nanos them, even through walls.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/flmdzv/ana_can_now_confirm_nano_and_send_it_without_line/

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  • jammujammu 2020 is now. Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Lock-on confirm? What? I think I need a video to understand this.

    Like Ana fires her Nano at Mercy and a popup appears, freezing the game, asking if she's sure?

    Basically you can enable on options, that when Ana or Echo presses Q (ultimate), their targets portrait appears on top of their crosshair. You can either left-click (confirm) or right-click (cancel).
    Bit slower to use than just pressing your ult-button, but no more Boostio's or battle-Mercies.

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  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Hot damn that's awesome ^.^

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  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    jammu wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Lock-on confirm? What? I think I need a video to understand this.

    Like Ana fires her Nano at Mercy and a popup appears, freezing the game, asking if she's sure?

    Basically you can enable on options, that when Ana or Echo presses Q (ultimate), their targets portrait appears on top of their crosshair. You can either left-click (confirm) or right-click (cancel).
    Bit slower to use than just pressing your ult-button, but no more Boostio's or battle-Mercies.

    this is wrong, it will now ONLY be Boostio and BMercy! No more accidentally nano'ing Bob.

    H3KnucklesPhoenix-D
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited March 20
    Various design philosophy interview stuff with the lead character artist, mostly on Echo.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/flv7c9/transcript_of_alphacasts_interview_with_renaud/

    She was specifically designed to counter shields, and because the devs wanted more DPS characters. Kinda getting mixed messages here, Jeffery.

    E:
    She does have some of the best glitches at least. If you dupe a Rein, pin somebody, but are killed or the dupe wears off, it pushes the person you pinned under the map and they fall into the abyss.

    ArcTangent on
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  • Brutal JBrutal J Sorry! Sorry, I'm sorry. Sorry. Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    SirToasty wrote: »
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    Uhhhh...

    https://twitter.com/Liberot 99/status/1240835294062161922?s=20

    But I was told she doesn't do that kind of damage! :P

    Man, just imagine if she was a support. It sure as fuck would pull some extra players into the support role for a while, and a few would stick.

    Then imagine if you expanded that to a flashy new awesome tank too!

    You're gonna have to point out where she melts a tank like you initially described.

    No shit that a damage hero can kill a squishy in a few seconds. That's not even the issue with that clip.


    There's no way the super jump stays. That's egregious.

    Is 2 seconds to disintegrate a Hog fast enough? God help you if she has a pocket Mercy.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/flehju/i_have_a_bad_feeling_about_this/

    I mean, I consider it a problem that a bunch of DPS utterly vaporize tanks nigh immediately, but they usually require CC or headshots, and aren't swooping across the battlefield like a jet bomber in the process.

    People forget all the DPS are overtuned. McCree can literally do this exact same thing to a hog with fan, roll, fan, 600 damage in a blink.

    Take Solider for a spin in the training range, and just mow down the bots. Two bullets and a rocket kills a bot faster than pretty much anything in the game. Is Solider the most OP dps in the game?

    She probably needs some tweeking, but people are really overreacting to what she can do to training bots, and it's super silly.

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  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    A 6 sec CD on an AOE 220 damage (1 dead squishy) that comes off the chain like a Zenyatta barrage and has no range limit.

    It deals 66% the damage of a Tracer Ult, 66% of the effective radius

    It can one shot any squishy.

    And it has seemingly infinite range and perfect accuracy

    And it'd on a 6 second cooldown.

    Yyyy'okay.

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  • Brutal JBrutal J Sorry! Sorry, I'm sorry. Sorry. Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    A 6 sec CD on an AOE 220 damage (1 dead squishy) that comes off the chain like a Zenyatta barrage and has no range limit.

    It deals 66% the damage of a Tracer Ult, 66% of the effective radius

    It can one shot any squishy.

    And it has seemingly infinite range and perfect accuracy

    And it'd on a 6 second cooldown.

    Yyyy'okay.

    I think it's only 180 damage. It is basically a charged Zen right click that can't head shot or kill without a damage boost, (but does have a small no damage falloff aoe).

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    Brutal J wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    A 6 sec CD on an AOE 220 damage (1 dead squishy) that comes off the chain like a Zenyatta barrage and has no range limit.

    It deals 66% the damage of a Tracer Ult, 66% of the effective radius

    It can one shot any squishy.

    And it has seemingly infinite range and perfect accuracy

    And it'd on a 6 second cooldown.

    Yyyy'okay.

    I think it's only 180 damage. It is basically a charged Zen right click that can't head shot or kill without a damage boost, (but does have a small no damage falloff aoe).

    6 bombs, 5 impact, 30 explosion, which is 210 damage.
    https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Echo

    But you only need to hit a couple to put non-tanks into the range where the super-Sym laser vaporizes them.

    Chance
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Finishing someone with your laser is a heavier commitment that leaves Echo quite exposed on the ground. But yeah sticky bombs are very very strong and likely to get nerfed I think.

    ChanceH3Knuckles
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    Finishing someone with your laser is a heavier commitment that leaves Echo quite exposed on the ground. But yeah sticky bombs are very very strong and likely to get nerfed I think.

    I'm just watchin' vids of flying Echos landing the full barrage on a flying Mercy from 15 yards and it's like... (looks down at Pulse Bomb) what are you even good for?

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    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    Finishing someone with your laser is a heavier commitment that leaves Echo quite exposed on the ground. But yeah sticky bombs are very very strong and likely to get nerfed I think.

    I'm just watchin' vids of flying Echos landing the full barrage on a flying Mercy from 15 yards and it's like... (looks down at Pulse Bomb) what are you even good for?

    being copied!

    ChanceH3Knuckles
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    The sticky bombs aren't very easy to land if the enemy is moving defensively. Also because of the explosion delay there's counterplay available for heroes with self-healing.

    The big key for dueling Echo is to keep yourself above half health. Her primary fire is pretty dinky, if she can't secure her kill with the beam Echo's not very effective.

    She also loses a lot of damage versus armor because most of her damage is broken up into multiple projectiles. So like Brig can be a problem for her.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Is she on console PTR card?

    Been super busy and haven't had a chance to check and beat up target range bots to further fuel my New Hero Panic.

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    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited March 20
    Zek wrote: »
    Finishing someone with your laser is a heavier commitment that leaves Echo quite exposed on the ground. But yeah sticky bombs are very very strong and likely to get nerfed I think.

    Laser is freely cancellable. The only commitment is that you can't use it again until it comes off CD (8 seconds).

    ArcTangent on
  • Brutal JBrutal J Sorry! Sorry, I'm sorry. Sorry. Registered User regular
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    Brutal J wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    A 6 sec CD on an AOE 220 damage (1 dead squishy) that comes off the chain like a Zenyatta barrage and has no range limit.

    It deals 66% the damage of a Tracer Ult, 66% of the effective radius

    It can one shot any squishy.

    And it has seemingly infinite range and perfect accuracy

    And it'd on a 6 second cooldown.

    Yyyy'okay.

    I think it's only 180 damage. It is basically a charged Zen right click that can't head shot or kill without a damage boost, (but does have a small no damage falloff aoe).

    6 bombs, 5 impact, 30 explosion, which is 210 damage.
    https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Echo

    But you only need to hit a couple to put non-tanks into the range where the super-Sym laser vaporizes them.

    I was mistaken! Still, it is not super different than Zen's right click.

    The real big advantage of it is, it fires out instantly with no charge time. She is def going to be really good at dunkin' on unaware players, but so far, I'm unconvinced she's not made of glass and will require a Mercy pocket to get good value out of similar to Pharah.

  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Is she on console PTR card?

    Been super busy and haven't had a chance to check and beat up target range bots to further fuel my New Hero Panic.

    You're thinking of the experimental card, which is different from PTR. The PTR is still only on PC. Apparently, she can't be on the experimental card because she uses entirely new assets.

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  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Boooo

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    the thing about echo is simply this

    shes a faster pharah that gives up sustained aoe damage for better mobility, an ult that is both a team wipe and a defensive utility ult that has vast flexibility, and burst damage along with a hitscan execute

    shes a clowncar hero with a ridiculous ceiling for fucked up shit

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    She definitely needs some nerfs, but she's fun, she's unique, and her nutty bits seem pretty easy to tweak into balance without fundamentally changing her kit. Even just playing against her is a ton of fun. She's also got an incredibly high skill ceiling and rewards having a big hero pool.

    The crazy mobility rollouts are pretty obviously just bugs so I'm not concerned about that, I definitely don't think they'll make it to live.

    In games where there's equally skilled players on both sides she's a lot less nutty, she is verrry fragile. Top 500s beating up on randos is not a normal game experience.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    Chance
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    She definitely needs some nerfs, but she's fun, she's unique, and her nutty bits seem pretty easy to tweak into balance without fundamentally changing her kit. Even just playing against her is a ton of fun. She's also got an incredibly high skill ceiling and rewards having a big hero pool.

    The crazy mobility rollouts are pretty obviously just bugs so I'm not concerned about that, I definitely don't think they'll make it to live.

    In games where there's equally skilled players on both sides she's a lot less nutty, she is verrry fragile. Top 500s beating up on randos is not a normal game experience.

    Verrry fragile, huh... Wow.

    4v7qebdd6ixv.png

    Sounds rough.
    :P

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  • TexiKenTexiKen talk about a hole in one Registered User regular
    Close Quarters challenge event was won in the first try, wayyyy easier than critical hits only. Used Junkrat and with Reaper, Bridget, and DvA we never had problems.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Perhaps my greatest problem with Echo is this - and all snark aside I'm looking forward to having her in the game... k here's what sucks about Echo:

    She can do Awesomer shit as Hero X than anyone playing Hero X can do. The theoretical results of that ult are ridiculous, suggesting a gleeful kill spree that someone playing Hero X could only dream of. And that's... lame somehow. The fact that she gets it for 15 seconds is yeah whatever, it's just... somethin' about it don't sit quite right. Tastes kinda' sour.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    I feel like her ult charge thing should have diminishing returns. Right now it seems to be "Don't be utterly horrible and you'll get an ult in that 15 seconds." If the second Ult charged half as fast it'd still be possible without some of the silliness it seems we're seeing.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    I feel like her ult charge thing should have diminishing returns. Right now it seems to be "Don't be utterly horrible and you'll get an ult in that 15 seconds." If the second Ult charged half as fast it'd still be possible without some of the silliness it seems we're seeing.

    On the one hand I like it, but on the other I feel like a better alternative is just cutting 5 seconds off it. If you don't lose the ult charge, you still have the potential to do something awesome within that 10 seconds, but you have to be a frickin' supergamer to pull it off. Or heck, 8 seconds. I feel like that, instead of nerfing the Echo'd-ult charge rate, retains the awesomeness potential of it while addressing a bit of how excessive it is.

    (Thinks of Shield Bash going through shields and doing 50 damage on a 5 second cooldown. Thinks of an 8-second Lamp on an effective 12-second cooldown.)

    It'll be okay. But it might take a while. Still tastes dirty. Like a dark force encounter. (Spits!)

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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    .
    I feel like her ult charge thing should have diminishing returns. Right now it seems to be "Don't be utterly horrible and you'll get an ult in that 15 seconds." If the second Ult charged half as fast it'd still be possible without some of the silliness it seems we're seeing.

    I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around how the devs could possibly think that killing her while she's ulting should give her a cleanse and full heal instead of... killing her. Which is on top of the invulnerability, cleanse, and full heal she gets for using it in the first place. That's a legitimately strong ult just on its own in tons of MOBAs.

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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    I think it could do without second ults entirely. That's not really the point of it, and the ults were never designed for that to be possible.

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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    I think it could do without second ults entirely. That's not really the point of it, and the ults were never designed for that to be possible.

    I would be all for it being changed to just use whoever she's targeting's ult after the like 1 second transformation wind-up or whatever.

    Alternatively, the Abathur approach, where you don't get the ult, but the ability cooldowns are greatly accelerated, so you actually really do have to use their basic kit on super-speed, not land a hit or two and then press Q.

    Simply toning down all ultimates to not be so damn absurdly and instantly deadly in general would also be a huge help, but that ship's long since sailed.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    I think it could do without second ults entirely. That's not really the point of it, and the ults were never designed for that to be possible.

    So the only thing that changes about the hero when Echo copies is... a 600% increase in ult charge rate, but multiple ults aren't part of its design?

    I mean, I wish it were so, but... I don't think that's so.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    I think it could do without second ults entirely. That's not really the point of it, and the ults were never designed for that to be possible.

    So the only thing that changes about the hero when Echo copies is... a 600% increase in ult charge rate, but multiple ults aren't part of its design?

    I mean, I wish it were so, but... I don't think that's so.

    I think what Zek means is you get the Ult of whatever hero you copy once.

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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited March 21
    Yeah, pretty sure Zek's talking about nerfing it so she's still guaranteed to get the copied hero's ult once, but extremely unlikely to get another before the timer runs out.

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  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited March 22
    I understand lol

    I'm saying the 600% ult charge rate isn't about "oh wow they can get someone else's ult but only the once." I'm saying 600% ult charge rate absolutely implies, to me, that multiple ults are as central to this thing's design as dash resets are to an ulting Genji.

    That's what I'm saying ^.^

    Chance on
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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited March 22
    https://www.dbltap.com/posts/echo-to-be-last-overwatch-hero-before-release-of-overwatch-2-01e3z3m99hrm

    No more heroes until OW2. It's like they're trying to antagonize people at this point.

    ArcTangent on
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  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    I thought we knew that already.

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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    I understand lol

    I'm saying the 600% ult charge rate isn't about "oh wow they can get someone else's ult but only the once." I'm saying 600% ult charge rate absolutely implies, to me, that multiple ults are as central to this thing's design as dash resets are to an ulting Genji.

    That's what I'm saying ^.^

    Obviously it's intentional that she can use it more than once. But the real point of the ability flavor-wise is that she can pick and choose any ult in the game. She needs a charging bonus so that she can feasibly use it within 15 seconds - getting the ult instantly would probably be too strong. But they could disable ult generation after the first one and not lose anything important.

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