[#MeToo] Comes To Gaming

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I favor the idea of some kind of Twitch metrics exploit being used to defraud Twitch and/or advertisers. I think it would explain both the uncharacteristically swift response from Twitch and the silence from people supposedly in the know, if there is an open vulnerability of some kind. But who knows.

    Third parties claim to know but are refraining to say due to the "sensitivity" of the subject. Assuming they aren't lying or misinformed, this does not seem to make sense for victimless financial crimes. No one cares if you ripped off Amazon.

    It might if there is an unfixed vulnerability and even talking around the methodology might reveal enough to enable a bunch more people to use it. While it is true that talking about "sensitivity" does sound like some kind of underage victim kind of thing, the response seems so much more decisive than any of these other cases that if that is it then something must have happened on an official legal level, but it sounds like no one has seen any court filings or police statements that you would expect if that was the case.

    But then why would reporters give a shit and hide it? Even if they weren't gonna report the specific details, they'd say something general about what it was.

    CambiataNightslyrElvenshaeFencingsax
  • AresProphetAresProphet I see a darkness in my fate I'll drive my car without the brakesRegistered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    I know practically nothing about streamers/videogame communities/dramatis personae in the videogame (or SFF) industry other than what I read in this thread. Dafuq happened this past week? From here it feels like a tipping point was abruptly reached for no apparent reason :eh:

    Not that I'm complaining, mind you!

    Method being the geek culture version of Harvey Weinstein as the domino that made all the other dominoes fall sure wasn't something that I was expecting, even for 2020 (jokes is on me I know).

    EDIT: And I don't know who most of the people on the Twitch sphere are either, but this is some serious "can't you guys stop molesting women for 5 minutes?".

    Follow up question: Who or what is Method?

    They are(were) a competitive WoW guild with a number of world first/second raid clears. They existed in some form as far back as vanilla, though with these past few raid tiers they really started cashing in when they made the decision to be the first guild to stream their world first progression. They did very well for themselves each time a new raid tier landed - their world first race viewership peaks on Twitch for their main channel was ~150k viewers, they had a number of cushy brand deals signed, etc - the usual "behind the band" high riding prosperity stuff that happens right before things completely implode.

    My exposure to Method came from them recruiting some high profile Path of Exile players: community leaders like Zizaran as well as competitive racers like Havoc and Steelmage. It was a real attempt to bring more visibility to the game and the racing scene in particular and seemed to be going well.

    In the wake of the revelations about Method's CEO and Josh, as well as the organization's complicity in covering up their abuses, all of the PoE Method members resigned from the organization on Friday.

    These streamers aren't massive. Ziz will hit 10k viewers on a big league launch; the other guys might peak at 4k or so and average 1-2 thousand viewers. Losing sponsorships like this and the opportunities that come along with them has to be extremely difficult. And yet they made the right call anyway.

    PoE is in the grand scheme of things a tiny gaming community. But I'm glad that for the most part it seems to have good people representing it.

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  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I favor the idea of some kind of Twitch metrics exploit being used to defraud Twitch and/or advertisers. I think it would explain both the uncharacteristically swift response from Twitch and the silence from people supposedly in the know, if there is an open vulnerability of some kind. But who knows.

    Third parties claim to know but are refraining to say due to the "sensitivity" of the subject. Assuming they aren't lying or misinformed, this does not seem to make sense for victimless financial crimes. No one cares if you ripped off Amazon.

    It might if there is an unfixed vulnerability and even talking around the methodology might reveal enough to enable a bunch more people to use it. While it is true that talking about "sensitivity" does sound like some kind of underage victim kind of thing, the response seems so much more decisive than any of these other cases that if that is it then something must have happened on an official legal level, but it sounds like no one has seen any court filings or police statements that you would expect if that was the case.

    But then why would reporters give a shit and hide it? Even if they weren't gonna report the specific details, they'd say something general about what it was.

    There's only one reporter who seems to know and isn't saying and he's barely a reporter and its starting to sound like more and more that he's just full of it.

    More news, after Dr's sponsors removed him and then put him back up, it seems like his sponsors have removed him again. :rotate:

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited June 28
    ObiFett wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I think I favor the idea of some kind of Twitch metrics exploit being used to defraud Twitch and/or advertisers. I think it would explain both the uncharacteristically swift response from Twitch and the silence from people supposedly in the know, if there is an open vulnerability of some kind. But who knows.

    Third parties claim to know but are refraining to say due to the "sensitivity" of the subject. Assuming they aren't lying or misinformed, this does not seem to make sense for victimless financial crimes. No one cares if you ripped off Amazon.

    It might if there is an unfixed vulnerability and even talking around the methodology might reveal enough to enable a bunch more people to use it. While it is true that talking about "sensitivity" does sound like some kind of underage victim kind of thing, the response seems so much more decisive than any of these other cases that if that is it then something must have happened on an official legal level, but it sounds like no one has seen any court filings or police statements that you would expect if that was the case.

    But then why would reporters give a shit and hide it? Even if they weren't gonna report the specific details, they'd say something general about what it was.

    There's only one reporter who seems to know and isn't saying and he's barely a reporter and its starting to sound like more and more that he's just full of it.

    More news, after Dr's sponsors removed him and then put him back up, it seems like his sponsors have removed him again. :rotate:

    I heavily suspect that those sponsors don't know anything either.

    TryCatcher on
    JaysonFourObiFettFencingsax
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    I suppose it's possible that this Sharp dude 1) doesn't know what he's talking about or 2) considers rich people fighting over contracts "important and sensitive" but who the fuck knows at this point.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    A particularly clever observation that I found is how many of this round of cases come from the idea of "we were going to share a room to save money or what not". Overgrown children running things like a frat house instead of a company.

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    Genuine question about the method person knife thing... when people say he "pulled a knife on another streamer", what does that mean? Do they stream in the same room and he actually threatened this person with a knife? Or did he wave a knife at the camera? I mean, neither is acceptable, but one seems like an actual felony while the other is just dumb and gross.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    The Cards Against Humanity thing keeps getting worse. A man who was the sole Black writer at the company at the time alleges he was fired for, apparently, objecting to the use of the n-word on a card and being too happy... but not before the company's leadership had him thrown in a mental institution for five days. (Again, for being too happy.)

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    It will be interesting to see when people are prepared to talk about Disrespect’s banning.

    I’d almost believe that with Microsoft’s Mixer platform folding, Twitch decided they are basically unchallenged and don’t have a major competitor they can risk losing their big asset to any longer, and so are no longer interested in putting up with his shenanigans-sort of a generalized attempt at a sea change in streaming culture. If one of their biggest, most visible content creators is no longer emblematic of how they want to run things, and they don’t have to worry about him giving a leg up to another streaming service, he might finally have become expendable.

    Of course, that probably wouldn’t explain the refunds.

  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    Genuine question about the method person knife thing... when people say he "pulled a knife on another streamer", what does that mean? Do they stream in the same room and he actually threatened this person with a knife? Or did he wave a knife at the camera? I mean, neither is acceptable, but one seems like an actual felony while the other is just dumb and gross.

    He threatened his girlfriend with a knife on stream.

    PreacherThegreatcow
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Genuine question about the method person knife thing... when people say he "pulled a knife on another streamer", what does that mean? Do they stream in the same room and he actually threatened this person with a knife? Or did he wave a knife at the camera? I mean, neither is acceptable, but one seems like an actual felony while the other is just dumb and gross.

    This is a good question, and I didn't know myself so I went looking for the video. I don't want it to embed, so I'll give you the URL with the timestamp:

    www youtube com/watch?v=JAot-HWkww4&feature=youtu.be&t=822

    Shortly before this timestamp, he tells her to "keep it down" because "people have jobs, unlike you, leeching off the government." She wasn't being any louder than him up to that point. She responds to this ugly comment by whispering. He then tells her she needs to speak loudly enough to be heard on the stream, and she keeps whispering. So he says, "look at my hands" gesturing towards a knife. "Are you going to speak at a normal volume now?"

    Based on the clothing, this looks like the same stream where he calls her trash multiple times, tells her she was being melodramatic about having a non-working phone the night before, etc. Even the chatters are concerned, and when she steps away from the camera he yells at her to let the audience know she's still alive.

    I can't watch the whole thing, it's absolutely sickening.

  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited June 28
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    Twitch needs to step up and get messages and press releases out before the shitheads they ban do. Look at the Dr. D case- he's got a statement out that he doesn't know why they banned him (bullshit of the highest magnitude), and the shitheads are going to use it as a rallying cry to protest and bully whatever female streamers that catch their ire and who might get views without the Doc shitting up the place.

    I mean, cripes, if they can't even control themselves when a woman cosplays or wears something that's not a big, baggy shirt or something that hides her curves, how the fuck do they survive in everyday life? I mean, do they expect every female streamer to cover up because they can't control themselves if they see the slightest hint of boob or curve, so they have to purge it because it means she's not a real streamer? Women shouldn't have to police what they wear on-stream just because a bunch of manchildren can't control themselves from going " ZOMG bewbz!" and freaking out and accusing her of trying to use sex appeal to get views.

    Twitch isn't in the habit of doing or saying anything when it come to bans because (IMO) said bans are often already non uniformly applied as it is, and near as I can tell often at the whims of individual moderators. And their moderators can be wildly different in how they apply the rules and seem to be pretty much on their own in doing it, with no support or firm guidance from Twitch corporate. My guess is they're underpaid and understaffed because social media companies are not interested in the messy, difficult job of policing content. As a result I think they've developed a policy of just not publicly talking about bans because it opens them up to liability.

    It becomes further complicated with female content creators on the site because over the years Twitch has tacitly allowed conditions to persist for female streamers to produce content that butts up very close to what cam site pornography creators do. And over years several male Twitch mods have been caught doing pervy shit like having extensive subscriptions to female streamers only, camping out in their chats, and giving favorable treatment to them -Amouranth routinely bragging she can break TOS because Twitch mods assure her she's safe, and repeatedly pushing the boundaries of sexually themed content is a good example. I wouldn't be surprised now if every women who streams feels an expectation to use cleavage and skimpy clothing to attract an audience, which sucks, and Twitch had a direct hand in creating that world.

    Dark_Side on
    Namrok
  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Y'all remember the Mully v. Synthetic Orange forum battle? That was a good one.Registered User regular
    Genuine question about the method person knife thing... when people say he "pulled a knife on another streamer", what does that mean? Do they stream in the same room and he actually threatened this person with a knife? Or did he wave a knife at the camera? I mean, neither is acceptable, but one seems like an actual felony while the other is just dumb and gross.

    Cambiata mostly covered it. The object isn't perfectly visible on the stream, but from what I can see and the way he molded his hand around it, it was actually a set of folding pliers. Those can still do real damage if applied to a person, of course. The guy's tone was mock-threatening (and mock-everything else in the portions I watched - think meanness as "humor") so it wasn't a threat with a knife/pliers the same way a mugger makes a threat with a knife/pliers. Regardless, he was 100% being a shithead.

    CambiataJaysonFourNumiHappylilElf
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    The Cards Against Humanity thing keeps getting worse. A man who was the sole Black writer at the company at the time alleges he was fired for, apparently, objecting to the use of the n-word on a card and being too happy... but not before the company's leadership had him thrown in a mental institution for five days. (Again, for being too happy.)
    I was admitted on a Friday at 6pm so I didn’t see a psychiatrist until Monday. She was tall, blonde and flanked by two med students. When I told her I had been in a stressful home environment growing up due to poverty and the fact that my parents told me I had to be better than the white boys to compete, she told me that was preposterous. Why would two anti-racist scholars teach their son to see white boys as competitors? Anti-racists would teach their son that race didn’t matter at all. I asked her if we could bring a single person of color into the room besides me to illustrate how common I felt it was to be taught this, she said no. She later listed my concerns as “spontaneous delusions” on “racial topics.”
    That is depressingly 100% believable.

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  • BigPointyTeethBigPointyTeeth run away! run away! Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    Genuine question about the method person knife thing... when people say he "pulled a knife on another streamer", what does that mean? Do they stream in the same room and he actually threatened this person with a knife? Or did he wave a knife at the camera? I mean, neither is acceptable, but one seems like an actual felony while the other is just dumb and gross.

    He threatened his girlfriend with a knife on stream.

    This is probably a weird thing for me to get hung up on enough to actually post, but from her account, I don't think it's anywhere near accurate to say she was his girlfriend. Probably not relevant either way, but for some reason it was bugging me.

    Also, while this thread is just horrifyingly and depressing, I'm glad these fuckers are being dragged into the light. I hope all these little empires of toxic bullshit burn to the ground.

    CambiataPreacherRingoMartini_PhilosopherCalica
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    Genuine question about the method person knife thing... when people say he "pulled a knife on another streamer", what does that mean? Do they stream in the same room and he actually threatened this person with a knife? Or did he wave a knife at the camera? I mean, neither is acceptable, but one seems like an actual felony while the other is just dumb and gross.

    He threatened his girlfriend with a knife on stream.

    This is probably a weird thing for me to get hung up on enough to actually post, but from her account, I don't think it's anywhere near accurate to say she was his girlfriend. Probably not relevant either way, but for some reason it was bugging me.

    Also, while this thread is just horrifyingly and depressing, I'm glad these fuckers are being dragged into the light. I hope all these little empires of toxic bullshit burn to the ground.

    What I hope is what happened recently with police violence on peaceful protesters. That it opens people eyes to the lies they've told themselves about communities they are in. God knows its shown me that even dudes who lead "small" streams of 100 or so viewers or less can be major creep shows.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • NumiNumi Registered User regular
    Genuine question about the method person knife thing... when people say he "pulled a knife on another streamer", what does that mean? Do they stream in the same room and he actually threatened this person with a knife? Or did he wave a knife at the camera? I mean, neither is acceptable, but one seems like an actual felony while the other is just dumb and gross.

    Cambiata mostly covered it. The object isn't perfectly visible on the stream, but from what I can see and the way he molded his hand around it, it was actually a set of folding pliers. Those can still do real damage if applied to a person, of course. The guy's tone was mock-threatening (and mock-everything else in the portions I watched - think meanness as "humor") so it wasn't a threat with a knife/pliers the same way a mugger makes a threat with a knife/pliers. Regardless, he was 100% being a shithead.

    Yeah, going back and watching it now it looks like he is fiddling with a multitool and when it gets to "look at my hands" he folds it back over for the pliers. Twitch was still totally in the right to perma-ban him for it, in fact I would almost have to give them some credit if that is why they banned him instead of trying to play it off. But stopped clock, correct time twice a day and all that.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    Twitch needs to step up and get messages and press releases out before the shitheads they ban do. Look at the Dr. D case- he's got a statement out that he doesn't know why they banned him (bullshit of the highest magnitude), and the shitheads are going to use it as a rallying cry to protest and bully whatever female streamers that catch their ire and who might get views without the Doc shitting up the place.

    I mean, cripes, if they can't even control themselves when a woman cosplays or wears something that's not a big, baggy shirt or something that hides her curves, how the fuck do they survive in everyday life? I mean, do they expect every female streamer to cover up because they can't control themselves if they see the slightest hint of boob or curve, so they have to purge it because it means she's not a real streamer? Women shouldn't have to police what they wear on-stream just because a bunch of manchildren can't control themselves from going " ZOMG bewbz!" and freaking out and accusing her of trying to use sex appeal to get views.

    Twitch isn't in the habit of doing or saying anything when it come to bans because (IMO) said bans are often already non uniformly applied as it is, and near as I can tell often at the whims of individual moderators. And their moderators can be wildly different in how they apply the rules and seem to be pretty much on their own in doing it, with no support or firm guidance from Twitch corporate. My guess is they're underpaid and understaffed because social media companies are not interested in the messy, difficult job of policing content. As a result I think they've developed a policy of just not publicly talking about bans because it opens them up to liability.

    It becomes further complicated with female content creators on the site because over the years Twitch has tacitly allowed conditions to persist for female streamers to produce content that butts up very close to what cam site pornography creators do. And over years several male Twitch mods have been caught doing pervy shit like having extensive subscriptions to female streamers only, camping out in their chats, and giving favorable treatment to them -Amouranth routinely bragging she can break TOS because Twitch mods assure her she's safe, and repeatedly pushing the boundaries of sexually themed content is a good example. I wouldn't be surprised now if every women who streams feels an expectation to use cleavage and skimpy clothing to attract an audience, which sucks, and Twitch had a direct hand in creating that world.

    Twitch seems to just be "the internet, but streamed". So all the shitty type of behaviours you expect from, say, an unmoderated forum.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Note that I specifically didn't linked the Josh video because is vastly disturbing and you can find it on Google.

    On stuff, latest one is on Apex Legends, streamer Diegosaurs had an accusation of basically staging a fight between a stalker and his then girlfriend and also doing "stage kisses" with minors.
    As a consequence:

    TSM is an e-sport organization.

    Don't know much about the Apex Legends scene, but Diego sure looks like a psychopath.

  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    It seems that it's not just Grant.

    Obviously not, but I mean, a LOT more people are coming forward regarding abuses in the DotA2 professional scene.

    This Reddit Post is attempting to capture as much information as possible (but obviously it's far from exhaustive), and it's a lot of names of abusers, statements by victims who have remained silent for so long, and reactions from the community.

    It feels like a few pebbles have started an avalanche in esports, and I hope it makes a lasting change. Sponsors and developers, take note, step up responsibly (as they should have, but fuck it, at least do better going forward), casters and players and personalities should be more aware, event venues make extra efforts, etc.

    Obviously many of these people are adults and capable of making their own choices, but others were barely that (or even minors, I haven't seen much in that direction but 'professional gamer' is obviously going to skew young for both players and fans). A company the size and scope of Valve certainly can afford to do more, and I hope they take this enforced COVID hiatus from The International (their annual giant DotA2 tournament) to go over everything with a fine toothed comb.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Forar wrote: »
    It seems that it's not just Grant.

    Obviously not, but I mean, a LOT more people are coming forward regarding abuses in the DotA2 professional scene.

    This Reddit Post is attempting to capture as much information as possible (but obviously it's far from exhaustive), and it's a lot of names of abusers, statements by victims who have remained silent for so long, and reactions from the community.

    It feels like a few pebbles have started an avalanche in esports, and I hope it makes a lasting change. Sponsors and developers, take note, step up responsibly (as they should have, but fuck it, at least do better going forward), casters and players and personalities should be more aware, event venues make extra efforts, etc.

    Obviously many of these people are adults and capable of making their own choices, but others were barely that (or even minors, I haven't seen much in that direction but 'professional gamer' is obviously going to skew young for both players and fans). A company the size and scope of Valve certainly can afford to do more, and I hope they take this enforced COVID hiatus from The International (their annual giant DotA2 tournament) to go over everything with a fine toothed comb.

    Reminds me of when one creeper was outed as being one in the destiny 2 community a couple other assholes were outed. Trash is getting taken out.

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Forar wrote: »
    It seems that it's not just Grant.

    Obviously not, but I mean, a LOT more people are coming forward regarding abuses in the DotA2 professional scene.

    This Reddit Post is attempting to capture as much information as possible (but obviously it's far from exhaustive), and it's a lot of names of abusers, statements by victims who have remained silent for so long, and reactions from the community.

    It feels like a few pebbles have started an avalanche in esports, and I hope it makes a lasting change. Sponsors and developers, take note, step up responsibly (as they should have, but fuck it, at least do better going forward), casters and players and personalities should be more aware, event venues make extra efforts, etc.

    Obviously many of these people are adults and capable of making their own choices, but others were barely that (or even minors, I haven't seen much in that direction but 'professional gamer' is obviously going to skew young for both players and fans). A company the size and scope of Valve certainly can afford to do more, and I hope they take this enforced COVID hiatus from The International (their annual giant DotA2 tournament) to go over everything with a fine toothed comb.

    Valve ain't gonna do shit. They never actually do anything until all but forced.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    It seems that it's not just Grant.

    Obviously not, but I mean, a LOT more people are coming forward regarding abuses in the DotA2 professional scene.

    This Reddit Post is attempting to capture as much information as possible (but obviously it's far from exhaustive), and it's a lot of names of abusers, statements by victims who have remained silent for so long, and reactions from the community.

    It feels like a few pebbles have started an avalanche in esports, and I hope it makes a lasting change. Sponsors and developers, take note, step up responsibly (as they should have, but fuck it, at least do better going forward), casters and players and personalities should be more aware, event venues make extra efforts, etc.

    Obviously many of these people are adults and capable of making their own choices, but others were barely that (or even minors, I haven't seen much in that direction but 'professional gamer' is obviously going to skew young for both players and fans). A company the size and scope of Valve certainly can afford to do more, and I hope they take this enforced COVID hiatus from The International (their annual giant DotA2 tournament) to go over everything with a fine toothed comb.

    Valve ain't gonna do shit. They never actually do anything until all but forced.

    Yeah most of these companies don't want to do anything until they are literally forced to, and when they do do something its the barest of bare min.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • SproutSprout Registered User regular
    Valve's so absurdly hands-off with Dota2's community anyway. I'm sure they won't hire Toby or Grant for TI (whenever it happens), but they're content to let Beyond the Summit take the heat for everything else.

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited June 29
    Eh.

    This isn't like some faceless C-tier pro who attended one Major. Some of these guys have been casting at events for years. Given opportunities and resources which they have abused and left a wake of harm.

    If Valve thinks it may impact their bottom line, I wouldn't be surprised if some steps were taken. Yeah yeah, obvious hawt taek that it'll be the corporate bare minimum, but I'll take doing 'something, anything, in the right direction' over nothing. The potential for litigation around such actions (especially if someone can prove they failed to take heed to credible accounts of assaults and harassment happening at their events) alone should direct some distinct 'pointedly covering our asses' response from a corp that big.

    I'm not expecting them to clean house with a flamethrower, but I really do think that this may indeed force their hands towards some form of action.

    Forar on
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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Forar wrote: »
    Eh.

    This isn't like some faceless C-tier pro who attended one Major. Some of these guys have been casting at events for years. Given opportunities and resources which they have abused and left a wake of harm.

    If Valve thinks it may impact their bottom line, I wouldn't be surprised if some steps were taken. Yeah yeah, obvious hawt taek that it'll be the corporate bare minimum, but I'll take doing 'something, anything, in the right direction' over nothing. The potential for litigation around such actions (especially if someone can prove they failed to take heed to credible accounts of assaults and harassment happening at their events) alone should direct some distinct 'pointedly covering our asses' response from a corp that big.

    I'm not expecting them to clean house with a flamethrower, but I really do think that this may indeed force their hands towards some form of action.

    They do the math, anytime someone gets popped for anything there are legion of fuck whits who come out in support of it, or to demand some other completely unrelated person be banned instead. These companies have been cowed by the toxic male fragility for years because a lot of their staff is the same.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

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  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Metzger MeisterFencingsax
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    Hard to prove which part of the rank and file was on it, especially when the focus is (correctly) on nailing Sco, Sascha and Darrie to a cross, since they bear most of the responsibility.

    On news, Angry Joe is saying that the accusations against him are not true and he's talking to his lawyers about it:
    Sexual assault is an alarming accusation and should always be taken seriously. If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later. The consequence is damage to not only my reputation, career, and brand, but also those whom I employ, my friends and my family – all because many people don’t bother to examine the facts, only the salacious headline.

    This is now a serious legal matter. On the advice of my attorneys, all my future statements about this will be through the legal process. My lawyers are sending this person a cease and desist letter. Of course she is free to express her opinions about me all she wants. What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action.

    The lack of weasley excuses unlike...well...every other response to an accusation makes likely that he's saying the truth. But now is on the hands of the legal system.

    Namrok
  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    Hard to prove which part of the rank and file was on it, especially when the focus is (correctly) on nailing Sco, Sascha and Darrie to a cross, since they bear most of the responsibility.

    On news, Angry Joe is saying that the accusations against him are not true and he's talking to his lawyers about it:
    Sexual assault is an alarming accusation and should always be taken seriously. If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later. The consequence is damage to not only my reputation, career, and brand, but also those whom I employ, my friends and my family – all because many people don’t bother to examine the facts, only the salacious headline.

    This is now a serious legal matter. On the advice of my attorneys, all my future statements about this will be through the legal process. My lawyers are sending this person a cease and desist letter. Of course she is free to express her opinions about me all she wants. What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action.

    The lack of weasley excuses unlike...well...every other response to an accusation makes likely that he's saying the truth. But now is on the hands of the legal system.

    Disagree.

    He could be telling the truth, or he could just be a smarter liar. Either way, his denial by itself tells us nothing useful.

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
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  • DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited June 29
    It will be interesting to see when people are prepared to talk about Disrespect’s banning.

    I’d almost believe that with Microsoft’s Mixer platform folding, Twitch decided they are basically unchallenged and don’t have a major competitor they can risk losing their big asset to any longer, and so are no longer interested in putting up with his shenanigans-sort of a generalized attempt at a sea change in streaming culture. If one of their biggest, most visible content creators is no longer emblematic of how they want to run things, and they don’t have to worry about him giving a leg up to another streaming service, he might finally have become expendable.

    Of course, that probably wouldn’t explain the refunds.

    It's more complicated than this. Mixer folding was writing on the wall, MS signing those streamers was their last ditch effort, and it was immediately clear it wasn't going to work. Twitch knew immediately noone was leaving the platform to go watch them elsewhere. So while banning DrD, they knew full well people would stay on their service. This really isnt probably taken into consideration. In a lot of these cases, its 'wait till we actually have to make some sort of effort because that costs resources'

    On the "why wont the journalist say something or push the story?" from before: This is a pretty standard journalism thing. Sometimes you have to rewrite stories or not publish them for liability reasons, and not to interfere with ongoing investigations.

    DiannaoChong on
    steam_sig.png
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    Hard to prove which part of the rank and file was on it, especially when the focus is (correctly) on nailing Sco, Sascha and Darrie to a cross, since they bear most of the responsibility.

    On news, Angry Joe is saying that the accusations against him are not true and he's talking to his lawyers about it:
    Sexual assault is an alarming accusation and should always be taken seriously. If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later. The consequence is damage to not only my reputation, career, and brand, but also those whom I employ, my friends and my family – all because many people don’t bother to examine the facts, only the salacious headline.

    This is now a serious legal matter. On the advice of my attorneys, all my future statements about this will be through the legal process. My lawyers are sending this person a cease and desist letter. Of course she is free to express her opinions about me all she wants. What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action.

    The lack of weasley excuses unlike...well...every other response to an accusation makes likely that he's saying the truth. But now is on the hands of the legal system.

    Disagree.

    He could be telling the truth, or he could just be a smarter liar. Either way, his denial by itself tells us nothing useful.

    His defense set my teeth on edge honestly. It is doing a lot to attack the alleged victim while trying to appear neutral and supportive. These lines especially stick out to me: "If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later."

    Even a casual observer of the #metoo movement can easily have picked up how absolutely worthless the police are in these matters. This is before the most recent round of anti-police protests erupted as well. The line about being afforded due process is the kicker to it all as well.

    People are allowed to tell what has happened without first proving it in a court of law. His attempts to deny her first amendment rights of free speech without due process are far more relevant than the fact that he has not been charged with anything. Somehow the rights of the victims do not seem to be as ardently defended in these scenarios though.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Bresleau got into a Twitter fight with Keemstar (sigh) so he let slip that he's not saying why DrDisrespect got banned for legal reasons:

    DiannaoChong
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Keemstar if anyone could ever be canceled forever why can't it be him?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • A Half Eaten OreoA Half Eaten Oreo Registered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    Hard to prove which part of the rank and file was on it, especially when the focus is (correctly) on nailing Sco, Sascha and Darrie to a cross, since they bear most of the responsibility.

    On news, Angry Joe is saying that the accusations against him are not true and he's talking to his lawyers about it:
    Sexual assault is an alarming accusation and should always be taken seriously. If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later. The consequence is damage to not only my reputation, career, and brand, but also those whom I employ, my friends and my family – all because many people don’t bother to examine the facts, only the salacious headline.

    This is now a serious legal matter. On the advice of my attorneys, all my future statements about this will be through the legal process. My lawyers are sending this person a cease and desist letter. Of course she is free to express her opinions about me all she wants. What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action.

    The lack of weasley excuses unlike...well...every other response to an accusation makes likely that he's saying the truth. But now is on the hands of the legal system.

    Disagree.

    He could be telling the truth, or he could just be a smarter liar. Either way, his denial by itself tells us nothing useful.

    His defense set my teeth on edge honestly. It is doing a lot to attack the alleged victim while trying to appear neutral and supportive. These lines especially stick out to me: "If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later."

    Even a casual observer of the #metoo movement can easily have picked up how absolutely worthless the police are in these matters. This is before the most recent round of anti-police protests erupted as well. The line about being afforded due process is the kicker to it all as well.

    People are allowed to tell what has happened without first proving it in a court of law. His attempts to deny her first amendment rights of free speech without due process are far more relevant than the fact that he has not been charged with anything. Somehow the rights of the victims do not seem to be as ardently defended in these scenarios though.

    While I agree that this reads like an early #metoo standard attack the victim and “why not go to the police” defense. I’m not sure what a valid defense from a false allegation looks like. Staying quiet means you lose your livelihood. I guess you could go with a flat “I didn’t do it, it’s now a legal matter”.

    On that note has anyone been falsely accused? I’m drawing a blank on any note able false accusations in the movement. I honestly thought the movement would get hijacked by agitators at some point to ruin the credibility of real victims, I’m pleasantly surprised it hasn’t.

    HamHamJ
  • MrMisterMrMister Please demonstrate your enthusiasm for e-marking and/or e-assessment with examplesRegistered User regular
    edited June 29
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    Hard to prove which part of the rank and file was on it, especially when the focus is (correctly) on nailing Sco, Sascha and Darrie to a cross, since they bear most of the responsibility.

    On news, Angry Joe is saying that the accusations against him are not true and he's talking to his lawyers about it:
    Sexual assault is an alarming accusation and should always be taken seriously. If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later. The consequence is damage to not only my reputation, career, and brand, but also those whom I employ, my friends and my family – all because many people don’t bother to examine the facts, only the salacious headline.

    This is now a serious legal matter. On the advice of my attorneys, all my future statements about this will be through the legal process. My lawyers are sending this person a cease and desist letter. Of course she is free to express her opinions about me all she wants. What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action.

    The lack of weasley excuses unlike...well...every other response to an accusation makes likely that he's saying the truth. But now is on the hands of the legal system.

    Disagree.

    He could be telling the truth, or he could just be a smarter liar. Either way, his denial by itself tells us nothing useful.

    His defense set my teeth on edge honestly. It is doing a lot to attack the alleged victim while trying to appear neutral and supportive. These lines especially stick out to me: "If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later."

    Even a casual observer of the #metoo movement can easily have picked up how absolutely worthless the police are in these matters. This is before the most recent round of anti-police protests erupted as well. The line about being afforded due process is the kicker to it all as well.

    People are allowed to tell what has happened without first proving it in a court of law. His attempts to deny her first amendment rights of free speech without due process are far more relevant than the fact that he has not been charged with anything. Somehow the rights of the victims do not seem to be as ardently defended in these scenarios though.

    If I recall correctly, her initial account included things that may be criminal (unwanted touches, taking her phone, etc)--but it's very clear that she was not aiming to get charges for battery filed or anything like that. Her main accusation was that he was being incredibly sleazy and predatory in ways which are not necessarily illegal, but which reflect terribly on him. That his response attempts to refocus the question on whether there are actionable criminal charges is diversionary.

    Furthermore, he pairs that with legal threats which are, at least as far as I can tell, pretty baseless. IANAL, but in general my understanding is that you can't defame someone with simple matters of opinion, with "how sleazy was someone being at a party" being at least somewhat a matter of opinion, and to pursue a defamation charge you also need to show the defamer was either knowingly lying or at least being recklessly indifferent to the truth--he'd have to prove not only that she was wrong in how she interpreted his behavior, but that she was malicious and reckless in the specific facts she reported. Good luck! Imo, unless there's some slam dunk evidence of which we're not aware, this threat is totally legally frivolous, and making frivolous legal threats against someone to try to shut them up looks pretty bad imo.

    So yeah, that statement does not instill much confidence in me.

    MrMister on
    GnizmoFencingsaxSilas BrownmilskiElvenshae
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    Hard to prove which part of the rank and file was on it, especially when the focus is (correctly) on nailing Sco, Sascha and Darrie to a cross, since they bear most of the responsibility.

    On news, Angry Joe is saying that the accusations against him are not true and he's talking to his lawyers about it:
    Sexual assault is an alarming accusation and should always be taken seriously. If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later. The consequence is damage to not only my reputation, career, and brand, but also those whom I employ, my friends and my family – all because many people don’t bother to examine the facts, only the salacious headline.

    This is now a serious legal matter. On the advice of my attorneys, all my future statements about this will be through the legal process. My lawyers are sending this person a cease and desist letter. Of course she is free to express her opinions about me all she wants. What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action.

    The lack of weasley excuses unlike...well...every other response to an accusation makes likely that he's saying the truth. But now is on the hands of the legal system.

    Disagree.

    He could be telling the truth, or he could just be a smarter liar. Either way, his denial by itself tells us nothing useful.

    His defense set my teeth on edge honestly. It is doing a lot to attack the alleged victim while trying to appear neutral and supportive. These lines especially stick out to me: "If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later."

    Even a casual observer of the #metoo movement can easily have picked up how absolutely worthless the police are in these matters. This is before the most recent round of anti-police protests erupted as well. The line about being afforded due process is the kicker to it all as well.

    People are allowed to tell what has happened without first proving it in a court of law. His attempts to deny her first amendment rights of free speech without due process are far more relevant than the fact that he has not been charged with anything. Somehow the rights of the victims do not seem to be as ardently defended in these scenarios though.

    While I agree that this reads like an early #metoo standard attack the victim and “why not go to the police” defense. I’m not sure what a valid defense from a false allegation looks like. Staying quiet means you lose your livelihood. I guess you could go with a flat “I didn’t do it, it’s now a legal matter”.

    On that note has anyone been falsely accused? I’m drawing a blank on any note able false accusations in the movement. I honestly thought the movement would get hijacked by agitators at some point to ruin the credibility of real victims, I’m pleasantly surprised it hasn’t.

    The actor from Flash that is getting driven out gives a good example of what this can look like, I think. Or James Gunn as another example. You own the shitty things you did, don't defend it as ok, and work to grow as a person afterwards. Yeah this probably means taking some lumps along the way.

    The sad fact is we have all done something incredibly hurtful and fucked up at some point without realizing what we were doing. If we are extremely lucky someone will patiently explain it to us so we can grow. If you get the information this way then it can certainly seem pretty nasty, but it's a reaping what you sow situation. Your intentions cannot be enough to ignore real pain. Listen to those you have hurt, apologize, and try to do better. It's all anyone can ask, and it's really all we can offer.

    Kristmas Kthulhudavidsdurions
  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    edited June 29
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Bresleau got into a Twitter fight with Keemstar (sigh) so he let slip that he's not saying why DrDisrespect got banned for legal reasons:

    I mean okay but also 'legal reasons' is super vague and outside of some very specific circumstances not even a good reason to not report something

    KetBra on
    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
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