[#MeToo] Comes To Gaming

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  • A Half Eaten OreoA Half Eaten Oreo Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Bresleau got into a Twitter fight with Keemstar (sigh) so he let slip that he's not saying why DrDisrespect got banned for legal reasons:

    I mean okay but also 'legal reasons' is super vague and outside of some very specific circumstances not even a good reason to not report something

    At this point I just think he’s not sure of the info he was given and it would blow up on him if it’s wrong.

  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    In which case he probably shouldn't tweet that he knows stuff

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    In which case he probably shouldn't tweet that he knows stuff
    Yeah, he made a mistake there, and knows it.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    BloodySloth
  • caligynefobcaligynefob DKRegistered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    Hard to prove which part of the rank and file was on it, especially when the focus is (correctly) on nailing Sco, Sascha and Darrie to a cross, since they bear most of the responsibility.

    On news, Angry Joe is saying that the accusations against him are not true and he's talking to his lawyers about it:
    Sexual assault is an alarming accusation and should always be taken seriously. If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later. The consequence is damage to not only my reputation, career, and brand, but also those whom I employ, my friends and my family – all because many people don’t bother to examine the facts, only the salacious headline.

    This is now a serious legal matter. On the advice of my attorneys, all my future statements about this will be through the legal process. My lawyers are sending this person a cease and desist letter. Of course she is free to express her opinions about me all she wants. What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action.

    The lack of weasley excuses unlike...well...every other response to an accusation makes likely that he's saying the truth. But now is on the hands of the legal system.

    Disagree.

    He could be telling the truth, or he could just be a smarter liar. Either way, his denial by itself tells us nothing useful.

    His defense set my teeth on edge honestly. It is doing a lot to attack the alleged victim while trying to appear neutral and supportive. These lines especially stick out to me: "If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later."

    Even a casual observer of the #metoo movement can easily have picked up how absolutely worthless the police are in these matters. This is before the most recent round of anti-police protests erupted as well. The line about being afforded due process is the kicker to it all as well.

    People are allowed to tell what has happened without first proving it in a court of law. His attempts to deny her first amendment rights of free speech without due process are far more relevant than the fact that he has not been charged with anything. Somehow the rights of the victims do not seem to be as ardently defended in these scenarios though.

    While I agree that this reads like an early #metoo standard attack the victim and “why not go to the police” defense. I’m not sure what a valid defense from a false allegation looks like. Staying quiet means you lose your livelihood. I guess you could go with a flat “I didn’t do it, it’s now a legal matter”.

    On that note has anyone been falsely accused? I’m drawing a blank on any note able false accusations in the movement. I honestly thought the movement would get hijacked by agitators at some point to ruin the credibility of real victims, I’m pleasantly surprised it hasn’t.

    The actor from Flash that is getting driven out gives a good example of what this can look like, I think. Or James Gunn as another example. You own the shitty things you did, don't defend it as ok, and work to grow as a person afterwards. Yeah this probably means taking some lumps along the way.

    The sad fact is we have all done something incredibly hurtful and fucked up at some point without realizing what we were doing. If we are extremely lucky someone will patiently explain it to us so we can grow. If you get the information this way then it can certainly seem pretty nasty, but it's a reaping what you sow situation. Your intentions cannot be enough to ignore real pain. Listen to those you have hurt, apologize, and try to do better. It's all anyone can ask, and it's really all we can offer.

    Is your point then that you should admit doing something without being guilty of doing said thing?

    PS4 - Mrfuzzyhat
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 29
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    Hard to prove which part of the rank and file was on it, especially when the focus is (correctly) on nailing Sco, Sascha and Darrie to a cross, since they bear most of the responsibility.

    On news, Angry Joe is saying that the accusations against him are not true and he's talking to his lawyers about it:
    Sexual assault is an alarming accusation and should always be taken seriously. If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later. The consequence is damage to not only my reputation, career, and brand, but also those whom I employ, my friends and my family – all because many people don’t bother to examine the facts, only the salacious headline.

    This is now a serious legal matter. On the advice of my attorneys, all my future statements about this will be through the legal process. My lawyers are sending this person a cease and desist letter. Of course she is free to express her opinions about me all she wants. What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action.

    The lack of weasley excuses unlike...well...every other response to an accusation makes likely that he's saying the truth. But now is on the hands of the legal system.

    Disagree.

    He could be telling the truth, or he could just be a smarter liar. Either way, his denial by itself tells us nothing useful.

    His defense set my teeth on edge honestly. It is doing a lot to attack the alleged victim while trying to appear neutral and supportive. These lines especially stick out to me: "If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later."

    Even a casual observer of the #metoo movement can easily have picked up how absolutely worthless the police are in these matters. This is before the most recent round of anti-police protests erupted as well. The line about being afforded due process is the kicker to it all as well.

    People are allowed to tell what has happened without first proving it in a court of law. His attempts to deny her first amendment rights of free speech without due process are far more relevant than the fact that he has not been charged with anything. Somehow the rights of the victims do not seem to be as ardently defended in these scenarios though.

    While I agree that this reads like an early #metoo standard attack the victim and “why not go to the police” defense. I’m not sure what a valid defense from a false allegation looks like. Staying quiet means you lose your livelihood. I guess you could go with a flat “I didn’t do it, it’s now a legal matter”.

    On that note has anyone been falsely accused? I’m drawing a blank on any note able false accusations in the movement. I honestly thought the movement would get hijacked by agitators at some point to ruin the credibility of real victims, I’m pleasantly surprised it hasn’t.

    The actor from Flash that is getting driven out gives a good example of what this can look like, I think. Or James Gunn as another example. You own the shitty things you did, don't defend it as ok, and work to grow as a person afterwards. Yeah this probably means taking some lumps along the way.

    The sad fact is we have all done something incredibly hurtful and fucked up at some point without realizing what we were doing. If we are extremely lucky someone will patiently explain it to us so we can grow. If you get the information this way then it can certainly seem pretty nasty, but it's a reaping what you sow situation. Your intentions cannot be enough to ignore real pain. Listen to those you have hurt, apologize, and try to do better. It's all anyone can ask, and it's really all we can offer.

    That assumes you did the thing in the first place though.

    Which isn't me coming down one way or the other on this Angry Joe guy's situation because I still have no idea who he even is. Just that in the more general case an innocent person's reaction and a guilty person's reaction can both be flat denial and seeking (and following) legal council and that we can't distinguish between the two solely on that basis.

    shryke on
    caligynefobWhiteZinfandelFrankiedarlingSiskaGnomeTanktinwhiskerselectricitylikesmeLord_AsmodeusNamrokCalicaNobeard
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    You can typically sue for defamation apparently. Even it being an opinion could support a defamation claim if it was subject to being proven “verifiably false.” He's basically going for the "prove it" route.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    tyrannus wrote: »
    You can typically sue for defamation apparently. Even it being an opinion could support a defamation claim if it was subject to being proven “verifiably false.” He's basically going for the "prove it" route.

    You can sue for fucking anything. In order to win, you need a little more.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    Magic PinkNobeard
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    edited June 29
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    tyrannus wrote: »
    You can typically sue for defamation apparently. Even it being an opinion could support a defamation claim if it was subject to being proven “verifiably false.” He's basically going for the "prove it" route.

    You can sue for fucking anything. In order to win, you need a little more.

    If there's a criminal investigation into him and he's confident enough to come out clean, I imagine that he could use that as the "little more" and then go ahead and sue for defamation civilly. I am absolutely not a fucking lawyer, but a criminal investigation into him for something like this doesn't need consent from the injured. He's basically trying to force her into court?

    tyrannus on
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    The Cards Against Humanity thing keeps getting worse. A man who was the sole Black writer at the company at the time alleges he was fired for, apparently, objecting to the use of the n-word on a card and being too happy... but not before the company's leadership had him thrown in a mental institution for five days. (Again, for being too happy.)
    I was admitted on a Friday at 6pm so I didn’t see a psychiatrist until Monday. She was tall, blonde and flanked by two med students. When I told her I had been in a stressful home environment growing up due to poverty and the fact that my parents told me I had to be better than the white boys to compete, she told me that was preposterous. Why would two anti-racist scholars teach their son to see white boys as competitors? Anti-racists would teach their son that race didn’t matter at all. I asked her if we could bring a single person of color into the room besides me to illustrate how common I felt it was to be taught this, she said no. She later listed my concerns as “spontaneous delusions” on “racial topics.”
    That is depressingly 100% believable.

    If that's true, that psychiatrist needs to be fired and de-licensed immediately

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
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  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    edited June 29
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    Hard to prove which part of the rank and file was on it, especially when the focus is (correctly) on nailing Sco, Sascha and Darrie to a cross, since they bear most of the responsibility.

    On news, Angry Joe is saying that the accusations against him are not true and he's talking to his lawyers about it:
    Sexual assault is an alarming accusation and should always be taken seriously. If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later. The consequence is damage to not only my reputation, career, and brand, but also those whom I employ, my friends and my family – all because many people don’t bother to examine the facts, only the salacious headline.

    This is now a serious legal matter. On the advice of my attorneys, all my future statements about this will be through the legal process. My lawyers are sending this person a cease and desist letter. Of course she is free to express her opinions about me all she wants. What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action.

    The lack of weasley excuses unlike...well...every other response to an accusation makes likely that he's saying the truth. But now is on the hands of the legal system.

    Disagree.

    He could be telling the truth, or he could just be a smarter liar. Either way, his denial by itself tells us nothing useful.

    His defense set my teeth on edge honestly. It is doing a lot to attack the alleged victim while trying to appear neutral and supportive. These lines especially stick out to me: "If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later."

    Even a casual observer of the #metoo movement can easily have picked up how absolutely worthless the police are in these matters. This is before the most recent round of anti-police protests erupted as well. The line about being afforded due process is the kicker to it all as well.

    People are allowed to tell what has happened without first proving it in a court of law. His attempts to deny her first amendment rights of free speech without due process are far more relevant than the fact that he has not been charged with anything. Somehow the rights of the victims do not seem to be as ardently defended in these scenarios though.

    While I agree that this reads like an early #metoo standard attack the victim and “why not go to the police” defense. I’m not sure what a valid defense from a false allegation looks like. Staying quiet means you lose your livelihood. I guess you could go with a flat “I didn’t do it, it’s now a legal matter”.

    On that note has anyone been falsely accused? I’m drawing a blank on any note able false accusations in the movement. I honestly thought the movement would get hijacked by agitators at some point to ruin the credibility of real victims, I’m pleasantly surprised it hasn’t.

    The actor from Flash that is getting driven out gives a good example of what this can look like, I think. Or James Gunn as another example. You own the shitty things you did, don't defend it as ok, and work to grow as a person afterwards. Yeah this probably means taking some lumps along the way.

    The sad fact is we have all done something incredibly hurtful and fucked up at some point without realizing what we were doing. If we are extremely lucky someone will patiently explain it to us so we can grow. If you get the information this way then it can certainly seem pretty nasty, but it's a reaping what you sow situation. Your intentions cannot be enough to ignore real pain. Listen to those you have hurt, apologize, and try to do better. It's all anyone can ask, and it's really all we can offer.

    Is your point then that you should admit doing something without being guilty of doing said thing?
    shryke wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    Hard to prove which part of the rank and file was on it, especially when the focus is (correctly) on nailing Sco, Sascha and Darrie to a cross, since they bear most of the responsibility.

    On news, Angry Joe is saying that the accusations against him are not true and he's talking to his lawyers about it:
    Sexual assault is an alarming accusation and should always be taken seriously. If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later. The consequence is damage to not only my reputation, career, and brand, but also those whom I employ, my friends and my family – all because many people don’t bother to examine the facts, only the salacious headline.

    This is now a serious legal matter. On the advice of my attorneys, all my future statements about this will be through the legal process. My lawyers are sending this person a cease and desist letter. Of course she is free to express her opinions about me all she wants. What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action.

    The lack of weasley excuses unlike...well...every other response to an accusation makes likely that he's saying the truth. But now is on the hands of the legal system.

    Disagree.

    He could be telling the truth, or he could just be a smarter liar. Either way, his denial by itself tells us nothing useful.

    His defense set my teeth on edge honestly. It is doing a lot to attack the alleged victim while trying to appear neutral and supportive. These lines especially stick out to me: "If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later."

    Even a casual observer of the #metoo movement can easily have picked up how absolutely worthless the police are in these matters. This is before the most recent round of anti-police protests erupted as well. The line about being afforded due process is the kicker to it all as well.

    People are allowed to tell what has happened without first proving it in a court of law. His attempts to deny her first amendment rights of free speech without due process are far more relevant than the fact that he has not been charged with anything. Somehow the rights of the victims do not seem to be as ardently defended in these scenarios though.

    While I agree that this reads like an early #metoo standard attack the victim and “why not go to the police” defense. I’m not sure what a valid defense from a false allegation looks like. Staying quiet means you lose your livelihood. I guess you could go with a flat “I didn’t do it, it’s now a legal matter”.

    On that note has anyone been falsely accused? I’m drawing a blank on any note able false accusations in the movement. I honestly thought the movement would get hijacked by agitators at some point to ruin the credibility of real victims, I’m pleasantly surprised it hasn’t.

    The actor from Flash that is getting driven out gives a good example of what this can look like, I think. Or James Gunn as another example. You own the shitty things you did, don't defend it as ok, and work to grow as a person afterwards. Yeah this probably means taking some lumps along the way.

    The sad fact is we have all done something incredibly hurtful and fucked up at some point without realizing what we were doing. If we are extremely lucky someone will patiently explain it to us so we can grow. If you get the information this way then it can certainly seem pretty nasty, but it's a reaping what you sow situation. Your intentions cannot be enough to ignore real pain. Listen to those you have hurt, apologize, and try to do better. It's all anyone can ask, and it's really all we can offer.

    That assumes you did the thing in the first place though.

    Which isn't me coming down one way or the other on this Angry Joe guy's situation because I still have no idea who he even is. Just that in the more general case an innocent person's reaction and a guilty person's reaction can both be flat denial and seeking (and following) legal council and that we can't distinguish between the two solely on that basis.

    Forgive me combining the two posts but since they address the same thing I figured I would address them both. I think if someone is out there saying you did something messed up that you should believe them, yes. The root of a lot of limits on growth is an inability to see how our actions affect others. If they are telling you that something you did was messed up, then yeah you should just accept that it happened.

    I am not saying to never offer your version of events, but your version can never contradict how they felt. You cannot know how your actions impacted them without the person explicitly telling you so when they tell you then you have to trust it to a large degree. This doesn't mean you have to agree with it, or find it reasonable. It does mean you need to listen for a bit and reflect on whether you think your actions are so defensible that there is no room for the other parties pain though.

    Yes, you can come up with some hyperbolic example where this wouldn't make sense. I don't have a ton of interest in examining edge cases though as I am speaking for the majority of situations and not one off events.

    I will concede that if it is factually incorrect you certainly want to defend yourself then. This is a very rare situation from the current #metoo era. I am reminded of when Jacob Wohl tried to frame someone, and I forget who offhand, of sexually inappropriate conduct with someone. The facts came out extremely fast that there was no basis in reality. Something entirely fabricated is extremely easy to dismiss, and extremely rare because of the blow back on all accusers.

    In some hypothetical future this might change, and I will re-evaluate my stance once that happens. Until then I will continue to act based on what is happening all around us rather than what I think may one day be the case.

    Gnizmo on
    Kristmas KthulhuBandableRingo
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    Hard to prove which part of the rank and file was on it, especially when the focus is (correctly) on nailing Sco, Sascha and Darrie to a cross, since they bear most of the responsibility.

    On news, Angry Joe is saying that the accusations against him are not true and he's talking to his lawyers about it:
    Sexual assault is an alarming accusation and should always be taken seriously. If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later. The consequence is damage to not only my reputation, career, and brand, but also those whom I employ, my friends and my family – all because many people don’t bother to examine the facts, only the salacious headline.

    This is now a serious legal matter. On the advice of my attorneys, all my future statements about this will be through the legal process. My lawyers are sending this person a cease and desist letter. Of course she is free to express her opinions about me all she wants. What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action.

    The lack of weasley excuses unlike...well...every other response to an accusation makes likely that he's saying the truth. But now is on the hands of the legal system.

    Disagree.

    He could be telling the truth, or he could just be a smarter liar. Either way, his denial by itself tells us nothing useful.

    His defense set my teeth on edge honestly. It is doing a lot to attack the alleged victim while trying to appear neutral and supportive. These lines especially stick out to me: "If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later."

    Even a casual observer of the #metoo movement can easily have picked up how absolutely worthless the police are in these matters. This is before the most recent round of anti-police protests erupted as well. The line about being afforded due process is the kicker to it all as well.

    People are allowed to tell what has happened without first proving it in a court of law. His attempts to deny her first amendment rights of free speech without due process are far more relevant than the fact that he has not been charged with anything. Somehow the rights of the victims do not seem to be as ardently defended in these scenarios though.

    While I agree that this reads like an early #metoo standard attack the victim and “why not go to the police” defense. I’m not sure what a valid defense from a false allegation looks like. Staying quiet means you lose your livelihood. I guess you could go with a flat “I didn’t do it, it’s now a legal matter”.

    On that note has anyone been falsely accused? I’m drawing a blank on any note able false accusations in the movement. I honestly thought the movement would get hijacked by agitators at some point to ruin the credibility of real victims, I’m pleasantly surprised it hasn’t.

    Biden. Or at least a lot of weight came down on making that the narrative. Which is really one of the biggest issues with "cancel culture" to me. Either you trust your news sources to do the vetting for you, you spend a bunch of time playing internet detective to decide for yourself, or you just assume the all accusations are proof of guilt. I have problems with all of those options.

    The amateur and faux personal nature of internet media seem to have convinced a lot of people that they actually know content creators. But we don't, we know the act they perform on the internet.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
    shrykeelectricitylikesmeNobeard
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited June 29
    tyrannus wrote: »
    A year or so ago, a then friend of mine grabbed my genitals to check if I was aroused. It wasn't the first time he did so.

    What in the holy fuck???

    Smrtnik on
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  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    edited June 29
    Speaking of grabbing genitals, ...what?



    BEZOOOOOOOOS!

    Nosf on
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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Nosf wrote: »

    Ah, nuts

    I was enjoying his Fortnite streams

    BloodySlothDark Raven Xspool32
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited June 29
    Nosf wrote: »
    Speaking of grabbing genitals, ...what?



    BEZOOOOOOOOS!

    I learned in the protest thread that apparently this is now a standard thing and Twitch is shifting more towards "twitter for videos" than "watch people play games" - the Sanders and Biden campaigns also have twitch channels and many of the larger scale protests are streamed there.

    Either Twitch really is cleaning house and moving on to the neighbor's, or political streams are small enough potatoes that they're not interested in playing the bullshit games Twitter does when they run the white power video.

    Hevach on
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited June 29
    .
    Nosf wrote: »
    Speaking of grabbing genitals, ...what?



    BEZOOOOOOOOS!

    He was suspended for hate speech. Specifically for the rallies where he said "Mexicans are rapists" and "tough hombres are coming to rape housewives." Those two rallies were removed, and his account reinstated. It's not related to his other... inadequacies related to women and his opinion thereof.

    ArcTangent on
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Side note, minor on this, but I'm listening to Giant Bomb's latest bombcast (From last week) where they are talking about the metoo revelations of the last week. Man, Jeff is both angry and sad and... damn.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Hevach wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    Speaking of grabbing genitals, ...what?



    BEZOOOOOOOOS!

    I learned in the protest thread that apparently this is now a standard thing and Twitch is shifting more towards "twitter for videos" than "watch people play games" - the Sanders and Biden campaigns also have twitch channels and many of the larger scale protests are streamed there.

    Either Twitch really is cleaning house and moving on to the neighbor's, or political streams are small enough potatoes that they're not interested in playing the bullshit games Twitter does when they run the white power video.

    Eh twitch is still primarily a game streaming service. Just that because they also stream conferences and such political campaigns have twitch streams now. But the majority of views on twitch are game related.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    Side note, minor on this, but I'm listening to Giant Bomb's latest bombcast (From last week) where they are talking about the metoo revelations of the last week. Man, Jeff is both angry and sad and... damn.

    The Beastcast goes into it too and Alex is legit bummed, likely because he booked a lot of the people.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
  • BandableBandable Registered User regular
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    Hard to prove which part of the rank and file was on it, especially when the focus is (correctly) on nailing Sco, Sascha and Darrie to a cross, since they bear most of the responsibility.

    On news, Angry Joe is saying that the accusations against him are not true and he's talking to his lawyers about it:
    Sexual assault is an alarming accusation and should always be taken seriously. If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later. The consequence is damage to not only my reputation, career, and brand, but also those whom I employ, my friends and my family – all because many people don’t bother to examine the facts, only the salacious headline.

    This is now a serious legal matter. On the advice of my attorneys, all my future statements about this will be through the legal process. My lawyers are sending this person a cease and desist letter. Of course she is free to express her opinions about me all she wants. What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action.

    The lack of weasley excuses unlike...well...every other response to an accusation makes likely that he's saying the truth. But now is on the hands of the legal system.

    Disagree.

    He could be telling the truth, or he could just be a smarter liar. Either way, his denial by itself tells us nothing useful.

    His defense set my teeth on edge honestly. It is doing a lot to attack the alleged victim while trying to appear neutral and supportive. These lines especially stick out to me: "If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later."

    Even a casual observer of the #metoo movement can easily have picked up how absolutely worthless the police are in these matters. This is before the most recent round of anti-police protests erupted as well. The line about being afforded due process is the kicker to it all as well.

    People are allowed to tell what has happened without first proving it in a court of law. His attempts to deny her first amendment rights of free speech without due process are far more relevant than the fact that he has not been charged with anything. Somehow the rights of the victims do not seem to be as ardently defended in these scenarios though.

    While I agree that this reads like an early #metoo standard attack the victim and “why not go to the police” defense. I’m not sure what a valid defense from a false allegation looks like. Staying quiet means you lose your livelihood. I guess you could go with a flat “I didn’t do it, it’s now a legal matter”.

    On that note has anyone been falsely accused? I’m drawing a blank on any note able false accusations in the movement. I honestly thought the movement would get hijacked by agitators at some point to ruin the credibility of real victims, I’m pleasantly surprised it hasn’t.

    The actor from Flash that is getting driven out gives a good example of what this can look like, I think. Or James Gunn as another example. You own the shitty things you did, don't defend it as ok, and work to grow as a person afterwards. Yeah this probably means taking some lumps along the way.

    The sad fact is we have all done something incredibly hurtful and fucked up at some point without realizing what we were doing. If we are extremely lucky someone will patiently explain it to us so we can grow. If you get the information this way then it can certainly seem pretty nasty, but it's a reaping what you sow situation. Your intentions cannot be enough to ignore real pain. Listen to those you have hurt, apologize, and try to do better. It's all anyone can ask, and it's really all we can offer.

    Is your point then that you should admit doing something without being guilty of doing said thing?
    shryke wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    Hard to prove which part of the rank and file was on it, especially when the focus is (correctly) on nailing Sco, Sascha and Darrie to a cross, since they bear most of the responsibility.

    On news, Angry Joe is saying that the accusations against him are not true and he's talking to his lawyers about it:
    Sexual assault is an alarming accusation and should always be taken seriously. If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later. The consequence is damage to not only my reputation, career, and brand, but also those whom I employ, my friends and my family – all because many people don’t bother to examine the facts, only the salacious headline.

    This is now a serious legal matter. On the advice of my attorneys, all my future statements about this will be through the legal process. My lawyers are sending this person a cease and desist letter. Of course she is free to express her opinions about me all she wants. What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action.

    The lack of weasley excuses unlike...well...every other response to an accusation makes likely that he's saying the truth. But now is on the hands of the legal system.

    Disagree.

    He could be telling the truth, or he could just be a smarter liar. Either way, his denial by itself tells us nothing useful.

    His defense set my teeth on edge honestly. It is doing a lot to attack the alleged victim while trying to appear neutral and supportive. These lines especially stick out to me: "If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later."

    Even a casual observer of the #metoo movement can easily have picked up how absolutely worthless the police are in these matters. This is before the most recent round of anti-police protests erupted as well. The line about being afforded due process is the kicker to it all as well.

    People are allowed to tell what has happened without first proving it in a court of law. His attempts to deny her first amendment rights of free speech without due process are far more relevant than the fact that he has not been charged with anything. Somehow the rights of the victims do not seem to be as ardently defended in these scenarios though.

    While I agree that this reads like an early #metoo standard attack the victim and “why not go to the police” defense. I’m not sure what a valid defense from a false allegation looks like. Staying quiet means you lose your livelihood. I guess you could go with a flat “I didn’t do it, it’s now a legal matter”.

    On that note has anyone been falsely accused? I’m drawing a blank on any note able false accusations in the movement. I honestly thought the movement would get hijacked by agitators at some point to ruin the credibility of real victims, I’m pleasantly surprised it hasn’t.

    The actor from Flash that is getting driven out gives a good example of what this can look like, I think. Or James Gunn as another example. You own the shitty things you did, don't defend it as ok, and work to grow as a person afterwards. Yeah this probably means taking some lumps along the way.

    The sad fact is we have all done something incredibly hurtful and fucked up at some point without realizing what we were doing. If we are extremely lucky someone will patiently explain it to us so we can grow. If you get the information this way then it can certainly seem pretty nasty, but it's a reaping what you sow situation. Your intentions cannot be enough to ignore real pain. Listen to those you have hurt, apologize, and try to do better. It's all anyone can ask, and it's really all we can offer.

    That assumes you did the thing in the first place though.

    Which isn't me coming down one way or the other on this Angry Joe guy's situation because I still have no idea who he even is. Just that in the more general case an innocent person's reaction and a guilty person's reaction can both be flat denial and seeking (and following) legal council and that we can't distinguish between the two solely on that basis.

    Forgive me combining the two posts but since they address the same thing I figured I would address them both. I think if someone is out there saying you did something messed up that you should believe them, yes. The root of a lot of limits on growth is an inability to see how our actions affect others. If they are telling you that something you did was messed up, then yeah you should just accept that it happened.

    I am not saying to never offer your version of events, but your version can never contradict how they felt. You cannot know how your actions impacted them without the person explicitly telling you so when they tell you then you have to trust it to a large degree. This doesn't mean you have to agree with it, or find it reasonable. It does mean you need to listen for a bit and reflect on whether you think your actions are so defensible that there is no room for the other parties pain though.

    Yes, you can come up with some hyperbolic example where this wouldn't make sense. I don't have a ton of interest in examining edge cases though as I am speaking for the majority of situations and not one off events.

    I will concede that if it is factually incorrect you certainly want to defend yourself then. This is a very rare situation from the current #metoo era. I am reminded of when Jacob Wohl tried to frame someone, and I forget who offhand, of sexually inappropriate conduct with someone. The facts came out extremely fast that there was no basis in reality. Something entirely fabricated is extremely easy to dismiss, and extremely rare because of the blow back on all accusers.

    In some hypothetical future this might change, and I will re-evaluate my stance once that happens. Until then I will continue to act based on what is happening all around us rather than what I think may one day be the case.

    Yup, exactly. I would even take it a step further and it is on the onus of the accused to recognize that they may not remember what they did in the first place. For starters, in general memory human memory is pretty poor (look at the research on eye witness testimony). Even if a part of us does recognize our actions were bad, our subconscious can hide the memory. Who likes thinking about their mistakes after all? Our brains can edit our memories, removing the bad parts while keeping the rest, without us ever being aware that our memory has changed.

    This can be true about the victim as well, which is why victim testimony and memories of event can change. However, one very key difference here is that a victim memory of a traumatic event tend to be pretty etched in stone. All the details can be uncertain, but the feelings of being preyed upon are incredibly reliable when it comes to human memory, and "who you were with when you felt preyed upon" is normally pretty accurately remembered as well. To the victim, the event is a very important moment in their life. To the predator, it was Tuesday.

    What this means is that when anyone is accused of preying on someone, unless there is objective, physical evidence that the assault literally couldn't have happened the way it has been described (which in of itself is pretty damn difficult to provide), it is irresponsible of anyone to claim that the accuser is lying. Doesn't matter if they don't remember it happening. Doesn't matter if the accuser absolutely is lying (because the accused can't know that for certain). They can't be sure that they simply don't remember what happened. Their subconscious isn't something they can trust when accused of something like this. It is biased and there isn't anyway they can be certain that it isn't being selective about what it allows them to remember.

    As such, for a person accused of something they don't remember, when they objectively say that the accusation isn't true, they aren't being honest. Neither with themselves, or the rest of us. And while this lack of honesty is not a validation of the accusation, it is an admission of a lack of full understanding of the complexities of abuse dynamics, which does suggest that they are capable of abusing others out of ignorance (or worse). In a society with a systemic rape-culture, it isn't enough to "not be a rapist." One must be actively anti-rape-culture in both their thoughts and behavior. If one don't understand that their memory isn't to be universally trusted, especially in regards to what may be their problematic behavior, it is hard to believe they are proactively critical in the moment about whether their behavior is predatory, which is necessary to be certain that one is doing everything they can to make sure others don't feel preyed upon by them.

    GnizmoKristmas KthulhuRingo
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Athenor wrote: »
    Side note, minor on this, but I'm listening to Giant Bomb's latest bombcast (From last week) where they are talking about the metoo revelations of the last week. Man, Jeff is both angry and sad and... damn.

    The Beastcast goes into it too and Alex is legit bummed, likely because he booked a lot of the people.

    It brought up an interesting thought in my head:

    Do you scrub your website of a personality? Like... those interviews with Chris Avelonne. Do you remove those from the website? Modify them like we are doing with Gone with the Wind? Contextualize?

    I dunno. Hiding our flaws is what has made many of the monsters we have today.

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    Rarely-updated Collecting blog
    He/Him
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited June 29
    Preacher wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    Speaking of grabbing genitals, ...what?



    BEZOOOOOOOOS!

    I learned in the protest thread that apparently this is now a standard thing and Twitch is shifting more towards "twitter for videos" than "watch people play games" - the Sanders and Biden campaigns also have twitch channels and many of the larger scale protests are streamed there.

    Either Twitch really is cleaning house and moving on to the neighbor's, or political streams are small enough potatoes that they're not interested in playing the bullshit games Twitter does when they run the white power video.

    Eh twitch is still primarily a game streaming service. Just that because they also stream conferences and such political campaigns have twitch streams now. But the majority of views on twitch are game related.

    Yes, but I remember a case I could have sworn was just a few years ago (but was 2012 after I finally found the articles) of somebody getting banned for streaming non-game content. I've followed roughly zero events since then except for tuning in around the time Twitch Plays Pokemon was fighting Lance and only today did I learn that their content includes, among other things, Donald Trump and something called Mukbang, "an online streaming video style popular in Korea in which a host consumes large quantities of food while interacting with the audience," and... I'm just very old. Get off my lawn.

    Hevach on
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Ocelote, CEO of European e-sports company G2ESports seems to be picking up the ex-Method members:

    So that answers that question. For context, G2ESports has top end teams for LoL, CS:GO, Rocket League and Rainbow Six Siege.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Ocelote, CEO of European e-sports company G2ESports seems to be picking up the ex-Method members:

    So that answers that question. For context, G2ESports has top end teams for LoL, CS:GO, Rocket League and Rainbow Six Siege.

    Like I said Blackwater, they'll rename, blame it on a couple bad actors and that will be that. Funny how much the song changes but the music remains the same.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
    Ticaldfjam
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited June 29
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Ocelote, CEO of European e-sports company G2ESports seems to be picking up the ex-Method members:

    So that answers that question. For context, G2ESports has top end teams for LoL, CS:GO, Rocket League and Rainbow Six Siege.

    Like I said Blackwater, they'll rename, blame it on a couple bad actors and that will be that. Funny how much the song changes but the music remains the same.

    Is not a fair comparison since while Blackwater was renamed, they kept the same leadership (namely Erik Prince), this is picking up everybody except the leadership. And also except Josh because he's a liar, a rapist, a pedo, an abuser and is going to prison.

    I'm perfectly willing to change opinion if Sco or Sascha appear on the roster of the new team, but they seem to be done.

    TryCatcher on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Ocelote, CEO of European e-sports company G2ESports seems to be picking up the ex-Method members:

    So that answers that question. For context, G2ESports has top end teams for LoL, CS:GO, Rocket League and Rainbow Six Siege.

    Like I said Blackwater, they'll rename, blame it on a couple bad actors and that will be that. Funny how much the song changes but the music remains the same.

    Is not a fair comparison since while Blackwater was renamed, they kept the same leadership (namely Erik Prince), this is picking up everybody except the leadership. And also except Josh because he's a liar, a rapist, a pedo, an abuser and is going to prison.

    I'm perfectly willing to change opinion if Sco or Sascha appear on the roster of the new team, but they seem to be done.

    Yeah we'll have to see what specifically happens but when a team implodes because of shitty leadership, picking up the rest of the members that had nothing to do with the situation but are still good at what they do seems like a pretty obvious move. And not really a problem so long as said people were actually uninvolved.

    TryCatcherKayne Red RobeBethrynSmrtnik
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Ocelote, CEO of European e-sports company G2ESports seems to be picking up the ex-Method members:

    So that answers that question. For context, G2ESports has top end teams for LoL, CS:GO, Rocket League and Rainbow Six Siege.

    Like I said Blackwater, they'll rename, blame it on a couple bad actors and that will be that. Funny how much the song changes but the music remains the same.

    Is not a fair comparison since while Blackwater was renamed, they kept the same leadership (namely Erik Prince), this is picking up everybody except the leadership. And also except Josh because he's a liar, a rapist, a pedo, an abuser and is going to prison.

    I'm perfectly willing to change opinion if Sco or Sascha appear on the roster of the new team, but they seem to be done.

    Yeah we'll have to see what specifically happens but when a team implodes because of shitty leadership, picking up the rest of the members that had nothing to do with the situation but are still good at what they do seems like a pretty obvious move. And not really a problem so long as said people were actually uninvolved.

    Therein lies the rub - they need to do some solid vetting, or this is going to blow up in their faces.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Sprout wrote: »
    Valve's so absurdly hands-off with Dota2's community anyway. I'm sure they won't hire Toby or Grant for TI (whenever it happens), but they're content to let Beyond the Summit take the heat for everything else.

    Valve couldn't even be bothered to a token Black Lives Matter post. They give zero fucks.

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  • CarpyCarpy Registered User regular
    edited June 29
    Hevach wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Hevach wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    Speaking of grabbing genitals, ...what?



    BEZOOOOOOOOS!

    I learned in the protest thread that apparently this is now a standard thing and Twitch is shifting more towards "twitter for videos" than "watch people play games" - the Sanders and Biden campaigns also have twitch channels and many of the larger scale protests are streamed there.

    Either Twitch really is cleaning house and moving on to the neighbor's, or political streams are small enough potatoes that they're not interested in playing the bullshit games Twitter does when they run the white power video.

    Eh twitch is still primarily a game streaming service. Just that because they also stream conferences and such political campaigns have twitch streams now. But the majority of views on twitch are game related.

    Yes, but I remember a case I could have sworn was just a few years ago (but was 2012 after I finally found the articles) of somebody getting banned for streaming non-game content. I've followed roughly zero events since then except for tuning in around the time Twitch Plays Pokemon was fighting Lance and only today did I learn that their content includes, among other things, Donald Trump and something called Mukbang, "an online streaming video style popular in Korea in which a host consumes large quantities of food while interacting with the audience," and... I'm just very old. Get off my lawn.

    Twitch is also in the live sports broadcasting club as well

    Carpy on
    spool32
  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    Sprout wrote: »
    Valve's so absurdly hands-off with Dota2's community anyway. I'm sure they won't hire Toby or Grant for TI (whenever it happens), but they're content to let Beyond the Summit take the heat for everything else.

    Valve couldn't even be bothered to a token Black Lives Matter post. They give zero fucks.

    The Campo Santo folks that joined Valve dusted off Idle Thumbs to do their BLM advocacy. That they had to do that says much about Valve.

    Black lives matter.
    xu257gunns6e.png

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited June 30
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Sprout wrote: »
    Valve's so absurdly hands-off with Dota2's community anyway. I'm sure they won't hire Toby or Grant for TI (whenever it happens), but they're content to let Beyond the Summit take the heat for everything else.

    Valve couldn't even be bothered to a token Black Lives Matter post. They give zero fucks.

    The Campo Santo folks that joined Valve dusted off Idle Thumbs to do their BLM advocacy. That they had to do that says much about Valve.

    That and the fact that the company thought Steam Machines were an awesome idea.

    For better and worse, they don't give the tiniest of shits about what customers might actually want/want to hear.

    cloudeagle on
    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
    Thegreatcow
  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Sprout wrote: »
    Valve's so absurdly hands-off with Dota2's community anyway. I'm sure they won't hire Toby or Grant for TI (whenever it happens), but they're content to let Beyond the Summit take the heat for everything else.

    Valve couldn't even be bothered to a token Black Lives Matter post. They give zero fucks.

    The Campo Santo folks that joined Valve dusted off Idle Thumbs to do their BLM advocacy. That they had to do that says much about Valve.

    That and the fact that the company thought Steam Machines were an awesome idea.

    For better and worse, they don't give the tiniest of shits about what customers might actually want/want to hear.

    To be fair, I think Steam Machines was mostly in response to Microsoft talking about locking Windows down in a way that would prevent Steam from functioning. Microsoft backed off once it was obvious they overplayed their hand, but that was a concern for a while. (I'd put it into the same category as Steam on Linux and their work on WINE.)

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  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Gnizmo wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Valve is also just habitually silent about everything. A charitable take would be that their uniquely decentralized nature means they don't really have anyone to put forward as the PR face of their company to make those sorts of statements. Uncharitably, it could be because they're cowards. It's probably a little of column A and a little of column B.

    It is also much easier.

    They aren't the only ones, check Blizzard. Pretty sure they leaked "well, we asked Method and they said that they would handle it" to the e-sport journalists. But an official statement, especially since Method is gone? Yeah, ain't happening. There's a reason that companies wash their hands completely of competitive scenes outside their control.

    Blizzard needs to be better about this, because they had people they paid as commentators who literally worked for method. So yeah its not just a group that was in their tournaments they were paying method employees as their own.

    Hard to prove which part of the rank and file was on it, especially when the focus is (correctly) on nailing Sco, Sascha and Darrie to a cross, since they bear most of the responsibility.

    On news, Angry Joe is saying that the accusations against him are not true and he's talking to his lawyers about it:
    Sexual assault is an alarming accusation and should always be taken seriously. If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later. The consequence is damage to not only my reputation, career, and brand, but also those whom I employ, my friends and my family – all because many people don’t bother to examine the facts, only the salacious headline.

    This is now a serious legal matter. On the advice of my attorneys, all my future statements about this will be through the legal process. My lawyers are sending this person a cease and desist letter. Of course she is free to express her opinions about me all she wants. What she is not allowed to do is lie about me or defame me to the public and suggest that I am a sexual predator when I am not. If her defamation continues, I will be forced to take further legal action.

    The lack of weasley excuses unlike...well...every other response to an accusation makes likely that he's saying the truth. But now is on the hands of the legal system.

    Disagree.

    He could be telling the truth, or he could just be a smarter liar. Either way, his denial by itself tells us nothing useful.

    His defense set my teeth on edge honestly. It is doing a lot to attack the alleged victim while trying to appear neutral and supportive. These lines especially stick out to me: "If I or anyone had committed an offense then it should be reported to the police and investigated thoroughly. I urge this person to do that if she believes an offense occurred so I can clear my name. However instead of affording me due process, she decided to post false claims out of the blue more than two years later."

    Even a casual observer of the #metoo movement can easily have picked up how absolutely worthless the police are in these matters. This is before the most recent round of anti-police protests erupted as well. The line about being afforded due process is the kicker to it all as well.

    People are allowed to tell what has happened without first proving it in a court of law. His attempts to deny her first amendment rights of free speech without due process are far more relevant than the fact that he has not been charged with anything. Somehow the rights of the victims do not seem to be as ardently defended in these scenarios though.

    While I agree that this reads like an early #metoo standard attack the victim and “why not go to the police” defense. I’m not sure what a valid defense from a false allegation looks like. Staying quiet means you lose your livelihood. I guess you could go with a flat “I didn’t do it, it’s now a legal matter”.

    On that note has anyone been falsely accused? I’m drawing a blank on any note able false accusations in the movement. I honestly thought the movement would get hijacked by agitators at some point to ruin the credibility of real victims, I’m pleasantly surprised it hasn’t.

    Biden. Or at least a lot of weight came down on making that the narrative. Which is really one of the biggest issues with "cancel culture" to me. Either you trust your news sources to do the vetting for you, you spend a bunch of time playing internet detective to decide for yourself, or you just assume the all accusations are proof of guilt. I have problems with all of those options.

    The amateur and faux personal nature of internet media seem to have convinced a lot of people that they actually know content creators. But we don't, we know the act they perform on the internet.

    Bieber.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Twitch streamer poopernoodle sends a thanks for the support:

    PreacherJaysonFourDrez
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Twitch streamer poopernoodle sends a thanks for the support:

    It is depressingly sad that I didn't know which abuse this was in relation to until I started reading the statement, and even then it took till the third paragraph -- which is a good thing, btw. Do not elevate the monster's name.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Sprout wrote: »
    Valve's so absurdly hands-off with Dota2's community anyway. I'm sure they won't hire Toby or Grant for TI (whenever it happens), but they're content to let Beyond the Summit take the heat for everything else.

    Valve couldn't even be bothered to a token Black Lives Matter post. They give zero fucks.

    The Campo Santo folks that joined Valve dusted off Idle Thumbs to do their BLM advocacy. That they had to do that says much about Valve.

    That and the fact that the company thought Steam Machines were an awesome idea.

    For better and worse, they don't give the tiniest of shits about what customers might actually want/want to hear.

    To be fair, I think Steam Machines was mostly in response to Microsoft talking about locking Windows down in a way that would prevent Steam from functioning. Microsoft backed off once it was obvious they overplayed their hand, but that was a concern for a while. (I'd put it into the same category as Steam on Linux and their work on WINE.)

    While true, Microsoft backed off on that loooooooong before Steam Machines came out. Maybe before they were even announced, I forget.

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  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    So Adam Savage is apparently staring down the barrel of some messed up allegations even by #MeToo standards. Matter of fact I'm gonna leave the specific accusations out of the quote because the article gets pretty graphic.

    The rest of the Savage family denies the accusations, alleging that she's had a history of mental illness and the reason she's making them is to try and get a payout.

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/30/adam-savage-of-mythbusters-raped-sister-as-a-kid-lawsuit/
    Former “Mythbusters” co-host Adam Savage allegedly sexually abused his younger sister for years while calling himself the “raping blob” during the late 1970s, the woman says in a lawsuit filed Tuesday.

    ...

    He allegedly nicknamed himself the “raping blob” while masking the abuse as a game, according to the complaint.

    ...
    Pacchiana, of Newtown, Conn., is a social worker who blogged about losing her family after coming forward about the alleged sexual abuse.
    “When I first disclosed to my family that my brother had abused me as a child, I thought my whole world would change,” she wrote. “I assumed my family members would share my desire to examine what had gone wrong in our home and pursue a path toward healing together. I was sadly mistaken.”
    “In fact, their behaviors left me feeling as though the abuse didn’t really matter,” she continued. “Yes, they believed me — but my family members still seemed determined to brush my trauma under the rug. Over time, I came to realize they viewed me as the problem for focusing on the abuse. Not the brother who had abused me.”
    Pacchiana filed her lawsuit under the New York Child Victims Act, which opened a one-year look-back period for victims to bring claims that had already exceeded the statute of limitations. In May, the original deadline, which was set in August, was extended by five months due to coronavirus.
    “The prolific abuse by Mr. Savage as alleged in the Complaint has caused irreparable damage to my client that she will live with for the rest of her life,” Pacchiana’s lawyer Jordan Merson said in a statement. “Today is the first step in the direction of healing and justice.”
    Savage denied his sister’s allegations in a statement through his lawyer Andrew Brettler.
    “While I hope that my sister gets the help she needs to find peace, this needs to end. For many years, she has relentlessly and falsely attacked me and other members of my family to anyone who will listen,” Savage said. “By spreading numerous untrue stories about us in pursuit of a financial bonanza, she has tortured our entire family and estranged herself from all of us. I will fight this groundless and offensive lawsuit and work to put this to rest once and for all.”
    The siblings’ mother, Karen Savage, came to Adam’s defense Tuesday.
    “It makes me very sad to say this, but my daughter suffers from severe mental health challenges, and it’s devastating that she’s putting Adam and our entire family through this. Adam is a good man, and I support him completely.”
    Merson described Karen’s comments as a “possible HIPAA violation.”
    “The source of any mental health issues is clear and we appreciate defendant’s mother for confirming the significant damages in this case,” he said. “Although her mother apparently does not, we proudly support Ms. Pacchiana and all child sex abuse survivors who come forward.”

  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    that one pretty immediately sounds like the sister actually is just mentally ill

    fucked up situation for all concerned tho

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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited July 1
    Also it's the NYPost, which isn't exactly a bastion of journalistic integrity.

    edit: and he would have been around 10 years old at the time of the alleged abuse. Not that kids can't be abusive in that way before puberty, mind you.

    tynic on
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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Damn.

    Also the lawyer calling the mother’s comments a HIPAA violation. Hmm...

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