As I've sort of stumbled into owning two copies of the game, I admit I'm curious to see how it will compare on Xbox One X versus my three-year-old gaming laptop that sports a GTX 1080. Much will probably depend on if the Xbox version offers "performance" and "resolution" type graphics options; CDPR's own The Witcher 3 did (1080p/60fps vs 4K/30fps, basically), but I wonder if 60fps on a One X at any resolution is too much of an ask for CP2077 even if it has graphical compromises to help. But the laptop should be within its capabilities even if it needs to steer clear of the Ultra sort of level settings (and, obviously, raytracing, although that should in theory be usable at appalling framerates to get pretty screenshots since it got activated for 10xx series cards a while back).
As a quasi-open world game (at least), probably not. 30 hz is a pretty regular fallback in that genre for self-explanatory reasons.
Not that I wouldn't want it to be 60 hz either, and as CD Projekt Red has demonstrated they're not against the idea of two performance profiles, a 1080p/60hz version on XB1X doesn't seem unrealistic in the least. I'm assuming the massive graphical feature upgrade from The Witcher 3 would rule out, say, a 1440p (upscaled to 4K)/60hz mode of some variety (this might be the "fidelity" rather than "performance" mode).
I’d happily accept 1080 at 60fps, with ray tracing on the Series X. There’s so much going on, I think 4K would be optimistic.
Hell, Minecraft looks stunning with ray tracing, so I can’t wait to see a game with high resolution textures and ray tracing.
More time to upgrade to a ray tracing capable rig I suppose.
Speaking of this, I should totally wait to look at a 2070 super or something along those lines until the new gen of cards are announced right? Isn't that in a month or two or something?
Usually it's top end cards in the fall with mainstream spring/summer the following year. So far it seems Nvidia is going to talk about Ampere in August and cards will be available in September. These are going to be $1000+ cards though and shouldn't have any impact on mid range card price. Additionally given the pandemic, we may be looking at serious supply issues which may drive 3rd party card prices through the roof.
AMD could impact this, but as Jungle mentioned, we have to see it to believe it with them at this point. I'd still wait and see, since this generation of cards should be a pretty big deal. But if for a new mid range 2070 replacement, you'll probably be waiting till summer next year at least.
You'll have a brief window where something like a 2080 Super will go on sale for $500 when the new gen hits, but it'll require extreme vigilance and scouting multiple sites with alerts and will probably be a huge pain in the ass resulting in nothing.
With the bitcoin craze no longer what it was, the used market is back to being a somewhat reliable way to get gear as well.
Slowly, against my own expectations, getting hyped up for this game.
Two things are slightly unclear since i have not really paid attention so far:
1) I plan to buy one of the next-gen consoles this fall. Will i be able to buy a boxed copy of the game at that point (further delays notwithstanding)? If so, will that copy be a "real" next-gen version of the game or the current-gen version running in whichever boost-mode available in ps5/xboxx? What is this about a "next-gen patch" coming next year?
2) am i correctly understanding that the gameplay will be somewhat immersive-sim-y, like the last two Deus ex games?
The game will release on current consoles. When you get either of the new consoles it will patch and the new version will be optimised for the consoles and will run better. When a true next-gen, fully optimised version is released, your version will upgrade itself again via a patch, for free.
From what we’ve seen so far, the work looks insanely deep. Conversations will reflect choices you make, lots of stuff to explore and discover.
I’m expecting Deus Ex with a massive budget resulting in an entire city to play, not a few smallish walled-in areas.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Then no. The next gen consoles will be the first consoles that support raytracing on a hardware level (which is important, as just having software support will turn anything into a slideshow).
Then no. The next gen consoles will be the first consoles that support raytracing on a hardware level (which is important, as just having software support will turn anything into a slideshow).
I thought so. The XB1X is a too low in price to have RTX in it.
I was kinda annoyed this raytracing popped up after I got a PC with a 1080 GTX. Still, it is not commonplace yet.
If it makes you feel better, the 2XXX ray tracing is kinda garbo and the 3XXX series is looking to be 50-70% faster.
Control looked outstanding, but the dreamy, grainy artifacts from the raytracing fit the theme.
Spoilered for huge Control screengrab:
jungleroomx on
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I just want to emphasize that while RTX looks amazing in screenshots, it tends to run like ass if you're also trying to run on high/max settings because it's super computationally expensive, so I wouldn't shell out $$$ for a new card just to be able to turn RTX on.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
More time to upgrade to a ray tracing capable rig I suppose.
Speaking of this, I should totally wait to look at a 2070 super or something along those lines until the new gen of cards are announced right? Isn't that in a month or two or something?
Usually it's top end cards in the fall with mainstream spring/summer the following year. So far it seems Nvidia is going to talk about Ampere in August and cards will be available in September. These are going to be $1000+ cards though and shouldn't have any impact on mid range card price. Additionally given the pandemic, we may be looking at serious supply issues which may drive 3rd party card prices through the roof.
AMD could impact this, but as Jungle mentioned, we have to see it to believe it with them at this point. I'd still wait and see, since this generation of cards should be a pretty big deal. But if for a new mid range 2070 replacement, you'll probably be waiting till summer next year at least.
I wasn't hoping for a replacement so much as a price drop on current 2070 super cards
More time to upgrade to a ray tracing capable rig I suppose.
Speaking of this, I should totally wait to look at a 2070 super or something along those lines until the new gen of cards are announced right? Isn't that in a month or two or something?
Usually it's top end cards in the fall with mainstream spring/summer the following year. So far it seems Nvidia is going to talk about Ampere in August and cards will be available in September. These are going to be $1000+ cards though and shouldn't have any impact on mid range card price. Additionally given the pandemic, we may be looking at serious supply issues which may drive 3rd party card prices through the roof.
AMD could impact this, but as Jungle mentioned, we have to see it to believe it with them at this point. I'd still wait and see, since this generation of cards should be a pretty big deal. But if for a new mid range 2070 replacement, you'll probably be waiting till summer next year at least.
I wasn't hoping for a replacement so much as a price drop on current 2070 super cards
That or hoping that the 3060 is at or above 2070 performance for a nicer price.
( < . . .
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
More time to upgrade to a ray tracing capable rig I suppose.
Speaking of this, I should totally wait to look at a 2070 super or something along those lines until the new gen of cards are announced right? Isn't that in a month or two or something?
Usually it's top end cards in the fall with mainstream spring/summer the following year. So far it seems Nvidia is going to talk about Ampere in August and cards will be available in September. These are going to be $1000+ cards though and shouldn't have any impact on mid range card price. Additionally given the pandemic, we may be looking at serious supply issues which may drive 3rd party card prices through the roof.
AMD could impact this, but as Jungle mentioned, we have to see it to believe it with them at this point. I'd still wait and see, since this generation of cards should be a pretty big deal. But if for a new mid range 2070 replacement, you'll probably be waiting till summer next year at least.
I wasn't hoping for a replacement so much as a price drop on current 2070 super cards
Trying to get a mid-tier card like the 2070 Super when the price craters due to the imminent launch of the new lineup is difficult and requires some serious effort.
But considering the RTX bump in the cards that's been rumored and shown in benchmarks, the assumed 3060 will compete in raster with the 2070 Super (some places are rumoring it will compete with the 2080, but grains of salt and all that) and is going to trounce it soundly when it comes to RTX performance.
My advice is dependent on how the 3XXX series pans out, but if it is indeed 70-75% more RTX power, then do not buy a 2XXX series card at all.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
edited June 2020
Just putting some numbers out on the current rumor mill:
NVIDIA Ampere GA104 (Possibly RTX 3060, seems very likely)
CUDA cores: up to 2560
RTX Cores: up to 80
Tensor Cores: up to 320
GPU Boost clock: 2000MHz
GDDR6 speed: 16Gbps
Then no. The next gen consoles will be the first consoles that support raytracing on a hardware level (which is important, as just having software support will turn anything into a slideshow).
I thought so. The XB1X is a too low in price to have RTX in it.
It's also more than two years old (Holiday of 2017). Two and a half years ago, Nvidia was still having a time justifying RTX in the PC gaming space.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Then no. The next gen consoles will be the first consoles that support raytracing on a hardware level (which is important, as just having software support will turn anything into a slideshow).
I thought so. The XB1X is a too low in price to have RTX in it.
It's also more than two years old (Holiday of 2017). Two and a half years ago, Nvidia was still having a time justifying RTX in the PC gaming space.
2 and a half years ago nobody knew what raytracing was except for 3d modelers.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Alright so all the new stuff looks/sounds awesome.
I'm loving how much the combat is clearly RPG first. It looks exactly like what I had hoped.
And skill ups come from actually using specific weapon types/using the associated skills?? YESSS!
Anyone else already have a general build nailed down now that the stats/skills are out in the wild?
Street Kid
Reflex (focus on Handguns)
Cool (focus on Cold Blood)
Going all in for that handgun BIG CRITS style.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Im definitely feeling the melee/stealth ripslicer playstyle
I was kinda annoyed this raytracing popped up after I got a PC with a 1080 GTX. Still, it is not commonplace yet.
And I can't even replace* the GTX 1080 in mine, because laptop. Still, it's aged well. It's a three year old laptop that can play literally anything I can throw at it on good-to-great settings, and will likely continue to do so for a few years yet - if the XSX and PS5 are essentially at the level of a 2070 Super, that doesn't put them too far ahead on paper for everything bar raytracing, and it's likely we'll be at least halfway through this generation (so assuming another three years or so?) before the 1080 really starts struggling. That's a damn solid lifespan.
* - an eGPU, of course, is always an option down the line too, but just less portable.
I’m tempted to corporate, trying to get back in their good graces.
On the other hand, who want to play a cyberpunk game, and play a corporate type, I don’t want to wear a suit !
I’m definitely going for a hacker, stealthy type, getting missions done without being seen.
My favourite part of Deus Ex was hacking into and reading emails on terminals, so I’m hoping to do a lot of that, getting info on people and the world via emails and logs.
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
I’m tempted to corporate, trying to get back in their good graces.
On the other hand, who want to play a cyberpunk game, and play a corporate type, I don’t want to wear a suit !
I’m definitely going for a hacker, stealthy type, getting missions done without being seen.
My favourite part of Deus Ex was hacking into and reading emails on terminals, so I’m hoping to do a lot of that, getting info on people and the world via emails and logs.
Yea, street kid just feels like a real good fit for me and then in general for some extra impact. Street kid means the character will have grown up being affected by, and knowing, all of the gangs so it makes decisions there more personal plus also will have strong feelings towards the corpo types.
And of course corpo also will be more closely associated with parts because.. well you worked there, but also fuck being a corpo.
Nomad seems good for the more neutral party as an outsider to the city. But I want my character to have a deeper connection with the world so Street Kid it is! Plus street kids seem like a good time.
I’m tempted to corporate, trying to get back in their good graces.
On the other hand, who want to play a cyberpunk game, and play a corporate type, I don’t want to wear a suit !
I’m definitely going for a hacker, stealthy type, getting missions done without being seen.
My favourite part of Deus Ex was hacking into and reading emails on terminals, so I’m hoping to do a lot of that, getting info on people and the world via emails and logs.
Yea, street kid just feels like a real good fit for me and then in general for some extra impact. Street kid means the character will have grown up being affected by, and knowing, all of the gangs so it makes decisions there more personal plus also will have strong feelings towards the corpo types.
And of course corpo also will be more closely associated with parts because.. well you worked there, but also fuck being a corpo.
Nomad seems good for the more neutral party as an outsider to the city. But I want my character to have a deeper connection with the world so Street Kid it is! Plus street kids seem like a good time.
I think I’ll go Nomad - I like the idea of exploring ruins outside the city, plus the lack of a connection to Night City will mean I’ll only make connections I want to.
I’m looking forward to seeing what non-lethal weapons there are.
Plus maybe mantis arms as a backup. Just in case.
And a gun that shoots around corners. Just in case...
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Still haven't decided origin but I will definitely be going max stealth/max hacking (or edgerunning or decking or whatever they call it). I'm gonna sneak around and read all your mail!
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Still haven't decided origin but I will definitely be going max stealth/max hacking (or edgerunning or decking or whatever they call it). I'm gonna sneak around and read all your mail!
Nomad stealth run for me.
I'm still deciding between total pacifist and mass murder tho.
I’m actually trying not to read to much new info - I’ve watched the trailer, and seen one person talk about their playtime, but it was only a short video, so I knew they wouldn’t go into too much details.
It looks like CDPR are happy for people to talk about the very early game, but a lot of mechanics are still a mystery, which I like.
Same for me. I don't know the IP very well anyways, which is exciting as I haven't come blind into a new game in a very long time. I knew the Witcher series (books and games) well enough before W3 came out. Same with the Vampire game. So this one will hopefully be my mostly blind and exciting experience.
Interesting video detailing a hands on preview. Not only do we get options for nipples in character creation, but we also get to choose different teeth. Mods for this game are gonna be wild! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8-UX7kcdBc
yossarian_lives on
"I see everything twice!"
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
See the nipples and teeth is where I start to go "so like maybe you could have just not forced people to do horrible crunch because we don't really need those features."
Not to say those were the reason for the crunch, but it does imply that maybe there's a bunch of stuff that will be fun and awesome and granular but definitely not worth the human cost.
See the nipples and teeth is where I start to go "so like maybe you could have just not forced people to do horrible crunch because we don't really need those features."
Not to say those were the reason for the crunch, but it does imply that maybe there's a bunch of stuff that will be fun and awesome and granular but definitely not worth the human cost.
I disagree from the very depth of my soul.
There can never be too many character creation options.
More time to upgrade to a ray tracing capable rig I suppose.
Speaking of this, I should totally wait to look at a 2070 super or something along those lines until the new gen of cards are announced right? Isn't that in a month or two or something?
Usually it's top end cards in the fall with mainstream spring/summer the following year. So far it seems Nvidia is going to talk about Ampere in August and cards will be available in September. These are going to be $1000+ cards though and shouldn't have any impact on mid range card price. Additionally given the pandemic, we may be looking at serious supply issues which may drive 3rd party card prices through the roof.
AMD could impact this, but as Jungle mentioned, we have to see it to believe it with them at this point. I'd still wait and see, since this generation of cards should be a pretty big deal. But if for a new mid range 2070 replacement, you'll probably be waiting till summer next year at least.
I wasn't hoping for a replacement so much as a price drop on current 2070 super cards
Trying to get a mid-tier card like the 2070 Super when the price craters due to the imminent launch of the new lineup is difficult and requires some serious effort.
But considering the RTX bump in the cards that's been rumored and shown in benchmarks, the assumed 3060 will compete in raster with the 2070 Super (some places are rumoring it will compete with the 2080, but grains of salt and all that) and is going to trounce it soundly when it comes to RTX performance.
My advice is dependent on how the 3XXX series pans out, but if it is indeed 70-75% more RTX power, then do not buy a 2XXX series card at all.
Price is the big thing for me, but I can hand me down a 2070 to my son or something too.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
No like I agree with that, it's just that CDPR seems unable or unwilling to get there without crunch, and I'd rather they skip the crunch and remove features than give me insane granularity like that.
It's like when RDR2 launched and all the stories about crunch that was instituted purely for tiny, tiny details that barely anyone notices came out. It's cool if you can do that! It's not cool if you need to abuse people (crunch is worker abuse, full stop) to do that!
No like I agree with that, it's just that CDPR seems unable or unwilling to get there without crunch, and I'd rather they skip the crunch and remove features than give me insane granularity like that.
It's like when RDR2 launched and all the stories about crunch that was instituted purely for tiny, tiny details that barely anyone notices came out. It's cool if you can do that! It's not cool if you need to abuse people (crunch is worker abuse, full stop) to do that!
Do we know that CDPR is abusing people in order to bring you the option between a cut or uncut dick, for instance?
Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited July 2020
Well, testing and implementing this plethora of options isn't free, so...it's somewhere in the crunch, yes. And to be clear (because I may not have explained this well, I am kind of an idiot), I don't mean "omg the customization options caused crunch and are the work of Satan, Who Is The Devil," I mean that such a fanatical attention to detail in customization means to me that they probably did this throughout the entire game, which then begs the question: was that worth it? A lot of that work and time was probably for things that an average player will never notice, but the nature of games is that even an ignorable or missable feature can still take an awful lot of time to implement depending on what it is and how hard it is to get working in the game's engine. Maybe some of those features could be cut if it meant not doing crunch (this is obviously leaving aside the arguments about whether crunch even actually works, since a lot of evidence suggests it does not).
It just seems like rather a lot of big studios lately are going "crunch is unavoidable! we HAVE to do this!" but then you find out it's because the game has realistic fly wing textures and simulates the pubic hair configuration of every NPC in real time. I dunno. At some point you're trying to do so much tiny detail work that's nevertheless time consuming that your employees are suffering for little or no actual benefit.
No like I agree with that, it's just that CDPR seems unable or unwilling to get there without crunch, and I'd rather they skip the crunch and remove features than give me insane granularity like that.
It's like when RDR2 launched and all the stories about crunch that was instituted purely for tiny, tiny details that barely anyone notices came out. It's cool if you can do that! It's not cool if you need to abuse people (crunch is worker abuse, full stop) to do that!
Do we know that CDPR is abusing people in order to bring you the option between a cut or uncut dick, for instance?
If so, then worth it!
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Do you think you can have an organic dick with a cyber-foreskin
Posts
I’d happily accept 1080 at 60fps, with ray tracing on the Series X. There’s so much going on, I think 4K would be optimistic.
Hell, Minecraft looks stunning with ray tracing, so I can’t wait to see a game with high resolution textures and ray tracing.
4 months to go...
You'll have a brief window where something like a 2080 Super will go on sale for $500 when the new gen hits, but it'll require extreme vigilance and scouting multiple sites with alerts and will probably be a huge pain in the ass resulting in nothing.
With the bitcoin craze no longer what it was, the used market is back to being a somewhat reliable way to get gear as well.
The game will release on current consoles. When you get either of the new consoles it will patch and the new version will be optimised for the consoles and will run better. When a true next-gen, fully optimised version is released, your version will upgrade itself again via a patch, for free.
From what we’ve seen so far, the work looks insanely deep. Conversations will reflect choices you make, lots of stuff to explore and discover.
I’m expecting Deus Ex with a massive budget resulting in an entire city to play, not a few smallish walled-in areas.
The 1X is the current top tier one, right?
Then no. The next gen consoles will be the first consoles that support raytracing on a hardware level (which is important, as just having software support will turn anything into a slideshow).
I thought so. The XB1X is a too low in price to have RTX in it.
If it makes you feel better, the 2XXX ray tracing is kinda garbo and the 3XXX series is looking to be 50-70% faster.
Control looked outstanding, but the dreamy, grainy artifacts from the raytracing fit the theme.
Spoilered for huge Control screengrab:
I wasn't hoping for a replacement so much as a price drop on current 2070 super cards
You could say he is ....chipping in...
I'll show myself out
That or hoping that the 3060 is at or above 2070 performance for a nicer price.
Trying to get a mid-tier card like the 2070 Super when the price craters due to the imminent launch of the new lineup is difficult and requires some serious effort.
But considering the RTX bump in the cards that's been rumored and shown in benchmarks, the assumed 3060 will compete in raster with the 2070 Super (some places are rumoring it will compete with the 2080, but grains of salt and all that) and is going to trounce it soundly when it comes to RTX performance.
My advice is dependent on how the 3XXX series pans out, but if it is indeed 70-75% more RTX power, then do not buy a 2XXX series card at all.
NVIDIA Ampere GA104 (Possibly RTX 3060, seems very likely)
CUDA cores: up to 2560
RTX Cores: up to 80
Tensor Cores: up to 320
GPU Boost clock: 2000MHz
GDDR6 speed: 16Gbps
NVIDIA Turing TU104 (RTX 2070 Super)
CUDA cores: 2560
RTX Cores: 40
Tensor Cores: 320
GPU Boost Clock: 1770 MHz
GDDR6 Speed: 14Gbps
It's also more than two years old (Holiday of 2017). Two and a half years ago, Nvidia was still having a time justifying RTX in the PC gaming space.
2 and a half years ago nobody knew what raytracing was except for 3d modelers.
I'm loving how much the combat is clearly RPG first. It looks exactly like what I had hoped.
And skill ups come from actually using specific weapon types/using the associated skills?? YESSS!
Anyone else already have a general build nailed down now that the stats/skills are out in the wild?
Street Kid
Reflex (focus on Handguns)
Cool (focus on Cold Blood)
Going all in for that handgun BIG CRITS style.
And I can't even replace* the GTX 1080 in mine, because laptop. Still, it's aged well. It's a three year old laptop that can play literally anything I can throw at it on good-to-great settings, and will likely continue to do so for a few years yet - if the XSX and PS5 are essentially at the level of a 2070 Super, that doesn't put them too far ahead on paper for everything bar raytracing, and it's likely we'll be at least halfway through this generation (so assuming another three years or so?) before the 1080 really starts struggling. That's a damn solid lifespan.
* - an eGPU, of course, is always an option down the line too, but just less portable.
Steam | XBL
I’m tempted to corporate, trying to get back in their good graces.
On the other hand, who want to play a cyberpunk game, and play a corporate type, I don’t want to wear a suit !
I’m definitely going for a hacker, stealthy type, getting missions done without being seen.
My favourite part of Deus Ex was hacking into and reading emails on terminals, so I’m hoping to do a lot of that, getting info on people and the world via emails and logs.
Yea, street kid just feels like a real good fit for me and then in general for some extra impact. Street kid means the character will have grown up being affected by, and knowing, all of the gangs so it makes decisions there more personal plus also will have strong feelings towards the corpo types.
And of course corpo also will be more closely associated with parts because.. well you worked there, but also fuck being a corpo.
Nomad seems good for the more neutral party as an outsider to the city. But I want my character to have a deeper connection with the world so Street Kid it is! Plus street kids seem like a good time.
I think I’ll go Nomad - I like the idea of exploring ruins outside the city, plus the lack of a connection to Night City will mean I’ll only make connections I want to.
I’m looking forward to seeing what non-lethal weapons there are.
Plus maybe mantis arms as a backup. Just in case.
And a gun that shoots around corners. Just in case...
Nomad stealth run for me.
I'm still deciding between total pacifist and mass murder tho.
every decision designed to maximise cyberpoints... i will only do jobs that involve protecting ppls pc from viruses (this is cyber security)
i wonder how they have done cyberpsychosis for pcs
My first game I’m going to try and stay as minimally modded as possibly.
Brain mods for hacking is a given, and some eye mods to increase perception and night vision, but not much else.
Cyber psychosis is interesting. Conversation options with empathic responses greyed out, maybe ? Involuntary responses to environmental stimulus ?
It looks like CDPR are happy for people to talk about the very early game, but a lot of mechanics are still a mystery, which I like.
Not to say those were the reason for the crunch, but it does imply that maybe there's a bunch of stuff that will be fun and awesome and granular but definitely not worth the human cost.
I disagree from the very depth of my soul.
There can never be too many character creation options.
Price is the big thing for me, but I can hand me down a 2070 to my son or something too.
It's like when RDR2 launched and all the stories about crunch that was instituted purely for tiny, tiny details that barely anyone notices came out. It's cool if you can do that! It's not cool if you need to abuse people (crunch is worker abuse, full stop) to do that!
Do we know that CDPR is abusing people in order to bring you the option between a cut or uncut dick, for instance?
It just seems like rather a lot of big studios lately are going "crunch is unavoidable! we HAVE to do this!" but then you find out it's because the game has realistic fly wing textures and simulates the pubic hair configuration of every NPC in real time. I dunno. At some point you're trying to do so much tiny detail work that's nevertheless time consuming that your employees are suffering for little or no actual benefit.
If so, then worth it!