Illidan gets a couple actually cool moments in the final leg of Legion's story stuff, the stuff on the spaceship with Velen and the big Naaru was good. But ironically the stuff with the big naaru was good because she was the one making you go through the tedious "look how cool and special illidan is" flashback scenarios and then he obliterates her, delicious ironic revenge for the players.
+4
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Yeah, the illidan "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOU" was the one really good story beat but holy shit the tedium to get there
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
+2
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Illidan destroying the naaru remains one of my favourite cinematics.
+2
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
In fact I'm gonna post it for anyone who hasn't seen it.. you're not missing much by not doing the quests leading up to it ingame, if you haven't, the cinematic stands on its own.
"I am my scars" is just a scrumptiously corny line for linkin park superfan, illidan stormrage
+11
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
Got blacksmithing and engineering to 75 with the mats I have. I'm pretty confident I can hit 150 easy on bot but my warrior is only level 7 so I can go past 75 until 10.
I'm not sure what specialty I want to do with blacksmithing and engineering yet, I need to do more research.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Personally I felt the argus part of legion was a let down because this is the mighty wet my pants legion? chilling on a world that was "destroyed"
I really felt it would have been a better story if we took the fight to the legion on those other worlds they were attacking or whatever [the blood forest, the lava world and others} than the BFA story of why and who? and why is Queen Azshara a bigger threat than the legion? And N'Zoth is really far too many times they went to the old gods story.
I dunno. There are three "living" Old Gods and the last one we dealt with was in Wrath. MoP was Old God related, yes, but it was really the Garrosh show.
It makes sense we're hitting the last one.
And I'm rooting for him!
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
I dunno. There are three "living" Old Gods and the last one we dealt with was in Wrath. MoP was Old God related, yes, but it was really the Garrosh show.
It makes sense we're hitting the last one.
And I'm rooting for him!
What's weird is he's the weakest of the bunch. Why wouldn't you be able to deal with him at level 80 with some naxx epics?
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
0
jmcdonaldI voted, did you?DC(ish)Registered Userregular
The last two pages have done nothing but solidify my decision to leave the game after wotlk...
+1
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I dunno. There are three "living" Old Gods and the last one we dealt with was in Wrath. MoP was Old God related, yes, but it was really the Garrosh show.
It makes sense we're hitting the last one.
And I'm rooting for him!
Eh we've fought so many old god babies these past few expansions it's tiring.
An actual old god might be refreshing or it might be the most tired thing ever.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
What's weird is he's the weakest of the bunch. Why wouldn't you be able to deal with him at level 80 with some naxx epics?
He's the weakest, but the other two were caged / we only fought part of them. This is an Old God unleashed!
Or something.
Modern blizzard storytelling at its finest. After we kill him are we back at war with each other's factions again?
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Yogg Saron was an extremely cool old god design and boss and he was kinda wasted as a midpoint end raid boss in the best expansion the game ever had.
Yogg Saron is better than like, nearly every final raid boss that followed.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Yogg Saron was an extremely cool old god design and boss and he was kinda wasted as a midpoint end raid boss in the best expansion the game ever had.
Yogg Saron is better than like, nearly every final raid boss that followed.
I wasn't a big fan of the fight, I liked LK's fight a lot more.
But yeah compared to pretty much every expansion since it is leagues better. Ulduar in general had great fights that weren't just overloaded with mechanics for the sake of "must increase complexity".
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
+2
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Yogg Saron was an extremely cool old god design and boss and he was kinda wasted as a midpoint end raid boss in the best expansion the game ever had.
Yogg Saron is better than like, nearly every final raid boss that followed.
I wasn't a big fan of the fight, I liked LK's fight a lot more.
But yeah compared to pretty much every expansion since it is leagues better. Ulduar in general had great fights that weren't just overloaded with mechanics for the sake of "must increase complexity".
The Lich King fight is probably the best the game ever was in terms of payoff, except for the fact that it cockblocks you at the 10% mark.
I also really loved Yogg Saron showing you all the times he fucked with Azeroth's history and mocking you for it.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I'm pretty close to 43 now. I managed to collect all of the Green Hills (I only had to AH 3 of the pages for less than 5 silver each). I also completed the nifty stopwatch/stoneskin potion questline for some really fast XP. Tagging elementals was kind of a chore because it was so busy, but I was on discord with folks so it wasn't too bad. Once I got past the first quest, the others were incredibly quick.
Went back to STV after and finished off most of the northern part of the zone. Kind of excited to be nearly done with STV (for now) and get to some of the other zones.
I want to level up fast so I can get to some of my favorite dungeons (i.e. most of the 55+ dungeons).
last night was the first night i clocked out early... was feeling a little tired, and at 48... I'm not feeling that much pressure anymore to keep pace... I'm one hard weekend away from being in BRD so... putting it in cruise control (relatively speaking)
What's weird is he's the weakest of the bunch. Why wouldn't you be able to deal with him at level 80 with some naxx epics?
He's the weakest, but the other two were caged / we only fought part of them. This is an Old God unleashed!
Or something.
Modern blizzard storytelling at its finest. After we kill him are we back at war with each other's factions again?
lol we will fight him while at war with each other’s factions
+2
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
Had someone in the guild I'm in try to argue that enhancement shamans are a meme build and not viable in end game because they do burst damage and because of debuff limits and it is annoying because groups from SM to end game are actively looking for enhancement shamans and because this person apparently forgot that they can increase damage output for melee.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
0
BeastehTHAT WOULD NOTKILL DRACULARegistered Userregular
+7
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I had a group in ZF get mad at me for needing on a BoE blue that was a huge upgrade for me. They chilled out after I equipped but it was still weird to be upset about it.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I had a group in ZF get mad at me for needing on a BoE blue that was a huge upgrade for me. They chilled out after I equipped but it was still weird to be upset about it.
BoE items are saleable so they are exactly the same as gold dropping, so everyone should roll need.
But given that starting point, they were silly to roll greed.
Had someone in the guild I'm in try to argue that enhancement shamans are a meme build and not viable in end game because they do burst damage and because of debuff limits and it is annoying because groups from SM to end game are actively looking for enhancement shamans and because this person apparently forgot that they can increase damage output for melee.
I am not going to say enhancement is bad but I was told for years it was not that great compared to elemental but I made my shaman in early cata
My shaman in classic is resto and like my undead priest leveling a healer is a lesson in boredom and pain I know the priest side of it as I still have those memories of long ago when I did the 9.
just I have little idea how to play a shaman other than heals and mixing in some dps since I am leveling with my brother's orc warrior but he is being unfun pointing out how brutal some of the horde quests are compared to the westfall arc and into darkshire. It's not fun to have all those quests in pyrewood as that was painful or the lack of filler yellows now since it's all orange or red quests
0
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
Had someone in the guild I'm in try to argue that enhancement shamans are a meme build and not viable in end game because they do burst damage and because of debuff limits and it is annoying because groups from SM to end game are actively looking for enhancement shamans and because this person apparently forgot that they can increase damage output for melee.
I am not going to say enhancement is bad but I was told for years it was not that great compared to elemental but I made my shaman in early cata
My shaman in classic is resto and like my undead priest leveling a healer is a lesson in boredom and pain I know the priest side of it as I still have those memories of long ago when I did the 9.
just I have little idea how to play a shaman other than heals and mixing in some dps since I am leveling with my brother's orc warrior but he is being unfun pointing out how brutal some of the horde quests are compared to the westfall arc and into darkshire. It's not fun to have all those quests in pyrewood as that was painful or the lack of filler yellows now since it's all orange or red quests
I think a lot of it comes from people still harping on people thinking enhancement wasn't good in vanilla and for some reason people still have that mentality. Enhancement brings a lot of utility and some great burst DPS. People are just being geese.
I had a group in ZF get mad at me for needing on a BoE blue that was a huge upgrade for me. They chilled out after I equipped but it was still weird to be upset about it.
BoE items are saleable so they are exactly the same as gold dropping, so everyone should roll need.
But given that starting point, they were silly to roll greed.
I've always hated this mentality. It is pretty awful to deprive someone of an upgrade because someone else can sell it. It would even worse at 60 and gearing for BiS and having a BoE BiS drop and lose it to someone who can't even equip it because they can sell it.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Had someone in the guild I'm in try to argue that enhancement shamans are a meme build and not viable in end game because they do burst damage and because of debuff limits and it is annoying because groups from SM to end game are actively looking for enhancement shamans and because this person apparently forgot that they can increase damage output for melee.
I am not going to say enhancement is bad but I was told for years it was not that great compared to elemental but I made my shaman in early cata
My shaman in classic is resto and like my undead priest leveling a healer is a lesson in boredom and pain I know the priest side of it as I still have those memories of long ago when I did the 9.
just I have little idea how to play a shaman other than heals and mixing in some dps since I am leveling with my brother's orc warrior but he is being unfun pointing out how brutal some of the horde quests are compared to the westfall arc and into darkshire. It's not fun to have all those quests in pyrewood as that was painful or the lack of filler yellows now since it's all orange or red quests
I think a lot of it comes from people still harping on people thinking enhancement wasn't good in vanilla and for some reason people still have that mentality. Enhancement brings a lot of utility and some great burst DPS. People are just being geese.
I had a group in ZF get mad at me for needing on a BoE blue that was a huge upgrade for me. They chilled out after I equipped but it was still weird to be upset about it.
BoE items are saleable so they are exactly the same as gold dropping, so everyone should roll need.
But given that starting point, they were silly to roll greed.
I've always hated this mentality. It is pretty awful to deprive someone of an upgrade because someone else can sell it. It would even worse at 60 and gearing for BiS and having a BoE BiS drop and lose it to someone who can't even equip it because they can sell it.
Most people say they need it before they roll need but that is what I usually run into
0
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I mean, I was going to go Shaman and Enh before I switched to priest. To be quite honest, it pretty much is bad. PVE at least, its capable of amazing feats in PVP. But the damage just isn't there without a MASSIVE mana cost in PVE. One that only results in maybe sort of keeping up with the lower end classes. Early.
The thing about the utility they bring is a resto shaman can bring it too. They can even get away with going into the enh tree for them, and gear entirely for healing. That is why that argument never really works out.
If anything, the idea to try to tank basic dungeons is more realistic than the enh dps dream.
That being said, with regards to early to mid dungeons they do end up performing well. They get a lot of their best options early. They peter off later when they don't really get anything worthwhile. Like warriors get MS or bloodthirst. Rogues get all sorts of huge passive buff talents. Shaman get minor weapon buff increases and a long ass 20 second CD extra attack. One they run into issues using in raids because of debuff slots.
This is why I want TBC so bad. While they are one of the top specs, almost ALL their problems are fixed then. The class becomes a lot more fun to play, still brings awesome utility, and has significantly less mana and gearing problems. It's like night and day. I want to play TBC enhance so badly.
I've always hated this mentality. It is pretty awful to deprive someone of an upgrade because someone else can sell it. It would even worse at 60 and gearing for BiS and having a BoE BiS drop and lose it to someone who can't even equip it because they can sell it.
That person can sell it and use the gold to buy themselves an upgrade.
A BOE is of equal value to everyone because everyone has the choice of either turning it into an upgrade or banking the cash for an epic mount or something. People who can't equip it directly just take the extra step of buying an item they can equip with the proceeds.
Had someone in the guild I'm in try to argue that enhancement shamans are a meme build and not viable in end game because they do burst damage and because of debuff limits and it is annoying because groups from SM to end game are actively looking for enhancement shamans and because this person apparently forgot that they can increase damage output for melee.
As I recall, the SHM in the melee group was there primarily for Improved Weapon Totems. Generally you wanted WAR/SHM/ROG/ROG at least, and I'm pretty sure the 5th slot was also either ROG or WAR unless you just had like, a ton of healers. Been a decade or more, though, so I can't recall.
But man, they were definitely not there for the DPS...
0
StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
Had someone in the guild I'm in try to argue that enhancement shamans are a meme build and not viable in end game because they do burst damage and because of debuff limits and it is annoying because groups from SM to end game are actively looking for enhancement shamans and because this person apparently forgot that they can increase damage output for melee.
As I recall, the SHM in the melee group was there primarily for Improved Weapon Totems. Generally you wanted WAR/SHM/ROG/ROG at least, and I'm pretty sure the 5th slot was also either ROG or WAR unless you just had like, a ton of healers. Been a decade or more, though, so I can't recall.
But man, they were definitely not there for the DPS...
Yea, I know my DPS isn't gonna be the most amazing. I'm fine with that. The support, utility, off healing, and damage I can bring definitely makes enhance viable.
I've always hated this mentality. It is pretty awful to deprive someone of an upgrade because someone else can sell it. It would even worse at 60 and gearing for BiS and having a BoE BiS drop and lose it to someone who can't even equip it because they can sell it.
That person can sell it and use the gold to buy themselves an upgrade.
A BOE is of equal value to everyone because everyone has the choice of either turning it into an upgrade or banking the cash for an epic mount or something. People who can't equip it directly just take the extra step of buying an item they can equip with the proceeds.
Or, and hear me out on this, if it is a direct upgrade for someone then they should get that item or roll against other people who can also use it as a direct upgrade. That is the point of need. Greed is for getting it to sell.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
most enhance don't give a shit about their role as a hybrid, just like most ret paladins don't. it gives the classes a bad name and underserves their groups
if you want to really play your class to the fullest that's great, but you've got a lot of established norms to work against which requires the devotion and trust of your groupmates, as well as outside the box thinking on your part to make sure you're actually optimizing your character for that role as opposed to selling out for teh phat critz
Jasconius on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Or, and hear me out on this, if it is a direct upgrade for someone then they should get that item or roll against other people who can also use it as a direct upgrade. That is the point of need. Greed is for getting it to sell.
Hard disagree and you will never change my mind on this. There is no inherent higher value to someone who will equip it, since there could be a huge upgrade sitting on the AH that I could go buy with the proceeds of this BOE sale, and ultimately end up with the exact same scenario as the person who will equip it directly. There is no functional difference between someone equipping it as an upgrade, and me selling it for a different upgrade that I will equip.
Need vs Greed only applies on cases where there is actually a difference in the productive use that each player will put it to, like BOP items where you're greeding to disenchant or vendor them, which is a significantly less productive use of the item than equipping it. But in cases of a BOE, selling it for a big upgrade of your own is an equally productive use to put the item to as equipping it directly, so someone who happens to be able to equip it directly has no greater claim to the item than anyone else.
Dhalphir on
+2
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited September 2019
As far as I'm concerned, rolling to equip a BOE is still a Greed roll. If a 50g value BOE drops, It's likely that there's extra copies of that BOE sitting on the auction house at any given time for more or less 50g and winning a roll on it in a dungeon means you now don't have to buy it, saving you 50g. So the value received from winning the BOE is 50g, just like someone who rolls to sell it directly.
This does not apply to soulbound gear because the value of vendoring it is so much lower relative to the value of equipping it, and because there is no other way to acquire it except via getting the drop. BOEs can be acquired by buying them, and thus they are functionally equivalent to their market value when they drop, even if you intend to equip.
There is, and should not be, no inherent priority for being able to equip the item directly. A BOE is only ever worth gold, so if you really want to equip it that badly, go and buy one of them from the AH yourself. At the end of the day your opportunity to save X gold by getting a valuable item for free does not trump my opportunity to make X gold by selling it. There is no rational argument you can present that disproves that functional equity, except "but NEED over GREED" as if equipping a BOE isn't equally Greed as selling it.
Or, and hear me out on this, if it is a direct upgrade for someone then they should get that item or roll against other people who can also use it as a direct upgrade. That is the point of need. Greed is for getting it to sell.
Hard disagree and you will never change my mind on this. There is no inherent higher value to someone who will equip it, since there could be a huge upgrade sitting on the AH that I could go buy with the proceeds of this BOE sale, and ultimately end up with the exact same scenario as the person who will equip it directly. There is no functional difference between someone equipping it as an upgrade, and me selling it for a different upgrade that I will equip.
Need vs Greed only applies on cases where there is actually a difference in the productive use that each player will put it to, like BOP items where you're greeding to disenchant or vendor them, which is a significantly less productive use of the item than equipping it. But in cases of a BOE, selling it for a big upgrade of your own is an equally productive use to put the item to as equipping it directly, so someone who happens to be able to equip it directly has no greater claim to the item than anyone else.
Wow. If someone needed on a BoE blue or epic just to sell, when there are people in the group who actually need it, I would kick them instantly
Wow. If someone needed on a BoE blue or epic just to sell, when there are people in the group who actually need it, I would kick them instantly
Those people who need it can surely just go to the auction house and buy one, right? Why should they get it for free?
Whether a BOE is equipped or sold, in both cases the person is receiving a benefit equal to the gold value of the BOE.
Being able to equip a BOE worth 100 gold without buying it and getting 100 gold from selling said BOE are the same outcome, worth the same, and should be prioritized the same.
The argument of "actually need it" does not hold up when you consider BOE equipment because the option of purchasing it on the auction house exists, therefore the BOE can only be considered in terms of what it is worth. Soulbound gear has no option other than getting it as a drop, therefore people who need the item when it drops take priority over those who simply want to disenchant it, since there are other options for getting enchanting materials but if you need a soulbound item there is no other option. That logic does not apply when you are discussing a BOE because the option always exists to go and convert your gold into the item whenever you want.
When you can convert your gold into an item whenever you want, then getting that same item for free as a drop is functionally the same as getting its value in gold.
I have felt this way the entire time I have played this game since late 2006, and have never once heard anyone express a coherent argument against the above position. The only response anyone can muster is "wharblegarble i'd KICK u". At least come up with actual rational reasons why BOEs should follow standard Need Greed.
Wow. If someone needed on a BoE blue or epic just to sell, when there are people in the group who actually need it, I would kick them instantly
Those people who need it can surely just go to the auction house and buy one, right? Why should they get it for free?
They should get it for free because it dropped and they need it
I understand what you're saying. You don't need to try and explain it any further. It's just not how grouping in WoW works
When you join a group you enter a pact to need things that you need, and to greed things that you only want for money. Simple. If you have other ideas then I hope you explain it to your group beforehand
BeastehTHAT WOULD NOTKILL DRACULARegistered Userregular
edited September 2019
lmao what the hell I have never ever once encountered someone who takes need to mean greed it's fascinating
If you need something (it is an upgrade and you will equip it immediately) you need it, if not you greed it, wanting to sell it for gold is not needworthy, this is basic stuff and people who do not adhere to that tend to get a reputation
Posts
I'm not sure what specialty I want to do with blacksmithing and engineering yet, I need to do more research.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I really felt it would have been a better story if we took the fight to the legion on those other worlds they were attacking or whatever [the blood forest, the lava world and others} than the BFA story of why and who? and why is Queen Azshara a bigger threat than the legion? And N'Zoth is really far too many times they went to the old gods story.
It makes sense we're hitting the last one.
And I'm rooting for him!
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
What's weird is he's the weakest of the bunch. Why wouldn't you be able to deal with him at level 80 with some naxx epics?
Eh we've fought so many old god babies these past few expansions it's tiring.
An actual old god might be refreshing or it might be the most tired thing ever.
He's the weakest, but the other two were caged / we only fought part of them. This is an Old God unleashed!
Or something.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Modern blizzard storytelling at its finest. After we kill him are we back at war with each other's factions again?
Yogg Saron is better than like, nearly every final raid boss that followed.
I wasn't a big fan of the fight, I liked LK's fight a lot more.
But yeah compared to pretty much every expansion since it is leagues better. Ulduar in general had great fights that weren't just overloaded with mechanics for the sake of "must increase complexity".
The Lich King fight is probably the best the game ever was in terms of payoff, except for the fact that it cockblocks you at the 10% mark.
I also really loved Yogg Saron showing you all the times he fucked with Azeroth's history and mocking you for it.
Went back to STV after and finished off most of the northern part of the zone. Kind of excited to be nearly done with STV (for now) and get to some of the other zones.
I want to level up fast so I can get to some of my favorite dungeons (i.e. most of the 55+ dungeons).
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Always good to have a fork for eating.
I had a group in ZF get mad at me for needing on a BoE blue that was a huge upgrade for me. They chilled out after I equipped but it was still weird to be upset about it.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
BoE items are saleable so they are exactly the same as gold dropping, so everyone should roll need.
But given that starting point, they were silly to roll greed.
I am not going to say enhancement is bad but I was told for years it was not that great compared to elemental but I made my shaman in early cata
My shaman in classic is resto and like my undead priest leveling a healer is a lesson in boredom and pain I know the priest side of it as I still have those memories of long ago when I did the 9.
just I have little idea how to play a shaman other than heals and mixing in some dps since I am leveling with my brother's orc warrior but he is being unfun pointing out how brutal some of the horde quests are compared to the westfall arc and into darkshire. It's not fun to have all those quests in pyrewood as that was painful or the lack of filler yellows now since it's all orange or red quests
I think a lot of it comes from people still harping on people thinking enhancement wasn't good in vanilla and for some reason people still have that mentality. Enhancement brings a lot of utility and some great burst DPS. People are just being geese.
I've always hated this mentality. It is pretty awful to deprive someone of an upgrade because someone else can sell it. It would even worse at 60 and gearing for BiS and having a BoE BiS drop and lose it to someone who can't even equip it because they can sell it.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Most people say they need it before they roll need but that is what I usually run into
The thing about the utility they bring is a resto shaman can bring it too. They can even get away with going into the enh tree for them, and gear entirely for healing. That is why that argument never really works out.
If anything, the idea to try to tank basic dungeons is more realistic than the enh dps dream.
That being said, with regards to early to mid dungeons they do end up performing well. They get a lot of their best options early. They peter off later when they don't really get anything worthwhile. Like warriors get MS or bloodthirst. Rogues get all sorts of huge passive buff talents. Shaman get minor weapon buff increases and a long ass 20 second CD extra attack. One they run into issues using in raids because of debuff slots.
This is why I want TBC so bad. While they are one of the top specs, almost ALL their problems are fixed then. The class becomes a lot more fun to play, still brings awesome utility, and has significantly less mana and gearing problems. It's like night and day. I want to play TBC enhance so badly.
That person can sell it and use the gold to buy themselves an upgrade.
A BOE is of equal value to everyone because everyone has the choice of either turning it into an upgrade or banking the cash for an epic mount or something. People who can't equip it directly just take the extra step of buying an item they can equip with the proceeds.
As I recall, the SHM in the melee group was there primarily for Improved Weapon Totems. Generally you wanted WAR/SHM/ROG/ROG at least, and I'm pretty sure the 5th slot was also either ROG or WAR unless you just had like, a ton of healers. Been a decade or more, though, so I can't recall.
But man, they were definitely not there for the DPS...
Yea, I know my DPS isn't gonna be the most amazing. I'm fine with that. The support, utility, off healing, and damage I can bring definitely makes enhance viable.
Or, and hear me out on this, if it is a direct upgrade for someone then they should get that item or roll against other people who can also use it as a direct upgrade. That is the point of need. Greed is for getting it to sell.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
if you want to really play your class to the fullest that's great, but you've got a lot of established norms to work against which requires the devotion and trust of your groupmates, as well as outside the box thinking on your part to make sure you're actually optimizing your character for that role as opposed to selling out for teh phat critz
Hard disagree and you will never change my mind on this. There is no inherent higher value to someone who will equip it, since there could be a huge upgrade sitting on the AH that I could go buy with the proceeds of this BOE sale, and ultimately end up with the exact same scenario as the person who will equip it directly. There is no functional difference between someone equipping it as an upgrade, and me selling it for a different upgrade that I will equip.
Need vs Greed only applies on cases where there is actually a difference in the productive use that each player will put it to, like BOP items where you're greeding to disenchant or vendor them, which is a significantly less productive use of the item than equipping it. But in cases of a BOE, selling it for a big upgrade of your own is an equally productive use to put the item to as equipping it directly, so someone who happens to be able to equip it directly has no greater claim to the item than anyone else.
This does not apply to soulbound gear because the value of vendoring it is so much lower relative to the value of equipping it, and because there is no other way to acquire it except via getting the drop. BOEs can be acquired by buying them, and thus they are functionally equivalent to their market value when they drop, even if you intend to equip.
There is, and should not be, no inherent priority for being able to equip the item directly. A BOE is only ever worth gold, so if you really want to equip it that badly, go and buy one of them from the AH yourself. At the end of the day your opportunity to save X gold by getting a valuable item for free does not trump my opportunity to make X gold by selling it. There is no rational argument you can present that disproves that functional equity, except "but NEED over GREED" as if equipping a BOE isn't equally Greed as selling it.
Totally unrelated, what's your character's name in game?
Wow. If someone needed on a BoE blue or epic just to sell, when there are people in the group who actually need it, I would kick them instantly
Those people who need it can surely just go to the auction house and buy one, right? Why should they get it for free?
Whether a BOE is equipped or sold, in both cases the person is receiving a benefit equal to the gold value of the BOE.
Being able to equip a BOE worth 100 gold without buying it and getting 100 gold from selling said BOE are the same outcome, worth the same, and should be prioritized the same.
The argument of "actually need it" does not hold up when you consider BOE equipment because the option of purchasing it on the auction house exists, therefore the BOE can only be considered in terms of what it is worth. Soulbound gear has no option other than getting it as a drop, therefore people who need the item when it drops take priority over those who simply want to disenchant it, since there are other options for getting enchanting materials but if you need a soulbound item there is no other option. That logic does not apply when you are discussing a BOE because the option always exists to go and convert your gold into the item whenever you want.
When you can convert your gold into an item whenever you want, then getting that same item for free as a drop is functionally the same as getting its value in gold.
I have felt this way the entire time I have played this game since late 2006, and have never once heard anyone express a coherent argument against the above position. The only response anyone can muster is "wharblegarble i'd KICK u". At least come up with actual rational reasons why BOEs should follow standard Need Greed.
I understand what you're saying. You don't need to try and explain it any further. It's just not how grouping in WoW works
When you join a group you enter a pact to need things that you need, and to greed things that you only want for money. Simple. If you have other ideas then I hope you explain it to your group beforehand
If you need something (it is an upgrade and you will equip it immediately) you need it, if not you greed it, wanting to sell it for gold is not needworthy, this is basic stuff and people who do not adhere to that tend to get a reputation