[Fire Emblem Three Houses] happy goddamn deduesday my dudes

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  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Well, it's kept ambiguous, but fine, Byleth has been kept so in the dark regarding basic world history and his own past as to be functionally indistinguishable from an amnesiac.

    In the first cutscene I managed to lose Support rank with Jeralt for saying (in all honesty!) that I had no idea who he was.

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
    Captain InertiaJansonnever die
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Kupi wrote: »
    Terrendos wrote: »
    Well, it's kept ambiguous, but fine, Byleth has been kept so in the dark regarding basic world history and his own past as to be functionally indistinguishable from an amnesiac.

    In the first cutscene I managed to lose Support rank with Jeralt for saying (in all honesty!) that I had no idea who he was.

    Good job
    thats why you couldn’t save him

  • JansonJanson Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    Everything we glean about Byleth’s childhood would qualify Jeralt as an abusive parent in our society, honestly.

    Janson on
    TerrendosAndy JoeBahamutZERO
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    And that is why Leonie wants to fuck him.

    Captain InertiaBahamutZEROEmerlmaster999
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    Funny thing is there is nothing in game to suggest Byleth doesn't remember their past life. You even can reference it in a few supports.

    Like it's all so forced.

    Dragkonias on
    BahamutZEROMidnite
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Joke

    Spoilered for people just starting.

    NaphtaliLockedOnTargetEmerlmaster999
  • satansfingerssatansfingers Registered User regular
    edited March 28
    I just finished Crimson Flower as my first path. It sort of feels like the only legitimate path? I had a save at the point where I decided whether to save or kill Edelgard and when I went back after beating the game, trying to kill her felt so silly. Rhea sounds like a cartoon villain at that point. Why would I not support the person who says Fodlan should strive for equality and the organization that has divided it is evil? And yet this is an uncommon path. I don't really get this game I think.

    satansfingers on
    BahamutZEROWhippy
  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    I just finished Crimson Flower as my first path. It sort of feels like the only legitimate path? I had a save at the point where I decided whether to save or kill Edelgard and when I went back after beating the game, trying to kill her felt so silly. Rhea sounds like a cartoon villain at that point. Why would I not support the person who says Fodlan should strive for equality and the organization that has divided it is evil? And yet this is an uncommon path. I don't really get this game I think.

    It wouldn't be the first time a Japanese game hid its best ending behind some completionist requirements.

  • satansfingerssatansfingers Registered User regular
    I suppose it's completionist, but I feel like I'd be pissed if I'd selected another house at the beginning

  • JansonJanson Registered User regular
    edited March 28
    I just finished Crimson Flower as my first path. It sort of feels like the only legitimate path? I had a save at the point where I decided whether to save or kill Edelgard and when I went back after beating the game, trying to kill her felt so silly. Rhea sounds like a cartoon villain at that point. Why would I not support the person who says Fodlan should strive for equality and the organization that has divided it is evil? And yet this is an uncommon path. I don't really get this game I think.
    Edit: None of this is to try and change anyone’s mind. But since you asked, I thought I’d explain:

    I genuinely do not like Edelgard and would not wish to follow her. Here’s my personal reasons why; I’ll keep it focused on what we know in Crimson Flower only so as to avoid spoilers:

    - She’s an imperialist. As much as her campaign is about destroying the church she also expresses a desire to unite the continent more than once and implies that she feels that the kingdom and alliance belong to the empire. If it was solely about the church that’d be one thing, and I’d be on board, but it’s not. You don’t forcibly unite three countries whose citizens don’t express any desire to be reconciled. Plus the kingdom and alliance are roughly 300 years old - older than plenty of well-established countries - and have their own culture by this point. There’s also a lot of symbolism wrapped up into this (the ending card illustration, use of light/colour etc. throughout the campaign).

    - For all her talk of equality, it’s not always represented well in the game. Mind you, I think the game falls desperately short in telling and not showing in all of the campaigns. But it’s curious that the Black Eagles have the fewest number of commoners (and Dorothea is famous enough by the start of the game as to have elevated status) and we don’t see Edelgard talking to commoners nor do we get a sense that she’s talked to her people. Also, it’s worth pointing out that although she is painted as an underdog she starts her war from the highest possible position in her country. She’s not leading a rebellion, she’s the head of an empire invading the rest of the continent.

    - She comes off poorly in regard to certain characters; namely Jeritza and Petra. Jeritza is an actual murderer and Edelgard provides him with ‘killing grounds’! - What kind of person does that? And Petra’s situation is largely glossed over but some of her ending cards (ie with Hubert) suggest she doesn’t have completely free will.

    - Her politics are eh. Meritocracies are difficult to enact and sure enough the game ends with all of Edelgard’s closest friends being in positions of power. Again, her ending illustration card doesn’t exactly give confidence that life has improved for the common person. She also constantly talks about the ‘strong’ which I personally dislike; rulers who talk like that and meritocracies in general typically hold no place for the disabled or poor.

    - Her dialogue. Like, not everyone is going to interpret it the same way, but there were certain phrases she uses that gave me the heebie-jeebies. Like, lol, she reminded me of the worst traits of my mother-in-law in the way she talks like she’s martyring herself for other people’s sakes (not that Edelgard ever sacrifices much) or is doing things for their own good, as if no one is as intelligent or experienced as her. Plus she gets pretty angry if you disagree with her; I actually found myself attempting to pander to her to build support and a couple of times I tried to guess at the answer she’d prefer and was wrong, ouch. I spared Claude when I played her route and she expresses her irritation if you spare him. Also, ‘Really, I’m just like Lonato. I, too, will be the sort of ruler who’s willing to risk the lives of my citizens in service of a higher cause’ sounds a lot like ‘some of you may die, and that is a sacrifice I am willing to make’. Ironically she comes off better in the other paths for me.

    - Her role as Flame Emperor and whatever dealings she played a part in in the first half of the game are summarily forgotten. Like, even if you assume she was under the TWSITD’s thumb there’s aspects like how the Death Knight belongs to her (she loans him out to TWSITD) and how she knew what had happened to Flayn that don’t sit well with me.

    - Lastly, there’s a lot of discrepancies between Crimson Flower and the other paths that influence the story and characters differently enough to the point that you can’t quite say they’re all about the same thing. Also there’s a lot of loose ends. Here’s a brief rundown of just a few ambiguities that even the DLC doesn’t answer.

    Janson on
    DragkoniasCaptain InertiaMoriveth
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited March 28
    Yeah i'll have to play through it myself I'm still not sold on Edelgard like some folks.
    I've watched some YouTube videos and honestly the whole campaign sounds like "It'll work itself out."

    Dragkonias on
    Captain Inertia
  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Yeah i'll have to play through it myself I'm still not sold on Edelgard like some folks.
    I've watched some YouTube videos and honestly the whole campaign sounds like "It'll work itself out."
    Yeah, that's... kind of every campaign. You're just gonna have to assume the 'reforms' that happen in every route are good ones.

    never dieRadius
  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    What I appreciate about Three Houses is that, in contrast to Fates, it genuinely feels like all of the major players have both been wronged and do wrong themselves. Nobody's free of guilt and nobody's just evil for the lulz (with the exception of the late-game faction, and even then there are hints that maybe they weren't always as they are now).

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
    PolaritieJansonnever dieLockedOnTargetLordSolarMachariusNaphtaliBahamutZEROEmerlmaster999
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Yeah i'll have to play through it myself I'm still not sold on Edelgard like some folks.
    I've watched some YouTube videos and honestly the whole campaign sounds like "It'll work itself out."
    Yeah, that's... kind of every campaign. You're just gonna have to assume the 'reforms' that happen in every route are good ones.

    I mean yes, but if we're arguing about political nuance from the supposedly best path that isn't really a good argument to have to fall back on.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited March 28
    Like take for instance Golden Deer.
    I kind of thought Claude's idea for a borderless nation was cool.

    But even then if you look at his own country you see what happens on a smaller scale. A lot of infighting, scheming and burueacy.

    Bringing down the walls between warring cultures takes a bit of work.

    That said it isn't to say having a world where people have open borders and free trade isn't good.

    I guess my general problem with the actual political side of things is there is a lot of what not so much how.

    And a lot of the time the how just seems to fix itself without any real hiccups.

    Dragkonias on
    Janson
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited March 28
    Edelgard sucks, Claude is good and Petra is the best Lord

    Captain Inertia on
  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Hanneman is the hugest creep in the entire world holy shit

    Captain InertiaDidgeridoo
  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    I've already written at length about my perspective on Crimson Flower, so I'm going to steal something I wrote somewhere else.
    Playing Crimson Flower was a very particular experience for me. Edelgard was a very particular sort of character.

    Plenty of people—people both more eloquent and more erudite than I am—have talked a great deal about the particular elements that makes Edelgard well-written as a person. They have spoken as to the depiction of her trauma, and how she deals with it; they have written regarding her motivations; they have picked apart the small details that paint a fuller picture of who she is, and why she’s done what she has, and how her goals were the only possible answer she had to the world she found herself in.

    I won’t try to add to that. I agree, generally, that Edelgard is the best-written character in Three Houses, and given that this game is crammed full with the best cast the franchise has ever seen she’s also probably the best-written character in the series.

    There’s a tendency to try to litigate the relative morality of Edelgard. Was she right? Could her actions—could war—ever be justified, no matter the aim? Is violent insurrection the only answer to an entrenched power structure? Is violence the first language of revolution? But those aren’t my questions to answer, though I have answers for myself (and oh, how I do dream of my love, Madame la Guillotine)

    What, then? What about Edelgard and power?

    The Fire Emblem series are games fundamentally about the structures of power. Dig beneath the ancient wars with dragons, strip away gods of heaven and gods of earth, shave away order and chaos, and you are left with a single unifying theme: power, and the ordering of it. Kings, lords and their vassals, gods and their worshippers, deeply gendered power structures—power, power, and power again, as if power is the only language that the series speaks.

    Most of the games in the series are concerned primarily with the status quo, either in its active preservation or in the blunting of efforts to change it. Ike fights to stop the meddling of gods, but only by protecting the reign of the “legitimate” rulers like Elincia. Hector and Eliwood protect the Lycian League; Roy and Lilina undo the damage done by an outside power. Chrom and Lucina fight on behalf of Naga.

    I could list all the games this way, but you get the point. There’s a fundamental undercurrent to the series that is about accepting the shape of society, of seeing its inherent justice: if it has worked for so long, surely it must continue to work now? Resist foreign powers, resist foreign ideas, but do not question the man who owns you.

    I love Fire Emblem, but that is what the series is, at its heart: acquiescence to the structure of power, because it is protected by those who benefit from it.

    See this in Azure Moon and Verdant Wind. In Azure Moon, you preserve the status quo and instill a “legitimate” king. In Verdant Wind, you do not challenge the status quo for yourself: you pick up where Edelgard left off, taking credit for the positive aspects of her revolution without dirtying your hands by opposing the status quo.

    Crimson Flower is not like that. Crimson Flower is a wish fulfillment for someone who had long loved Fire Emblem but always been ambivalent toward its politics. Edelgard, herself, feels like the answer to a question that’s been asked over and over again for decades.

    She is well-written, certainly. She is also a female lord, in a series that treats very poorly with its women (even if, it might be argued, the game does not treat perfectly with her). She’s an axe lord, too, and we definitely need more of those. But what makes Edelgard special, what makes Crimson Flower special, is how it forces us to relate to power.

    Fódlan is not three nations; it is one. Faerghus, Adrestia, and the Leicester Alliance are all effectively governed by the church, pitted against each other by the church. Each of their forms of government is dictated by the Crest system, which was authored by the head of the church and is used both to keep the nations in balance and to weed out those powerful houses that do not obey the church’s edicts—like House Gaspard.

    Edelgard is not tortured by the people of the church, and her siblings are not killed by the worshippers of Seiros; at least, not directly. Those Who Slither in the Dark hold the knife; Those Who Slither in the Dark make the dead.

    But it is House Aegir, and House Vestra, and House Arundel, and more besides who let Those into the empire, seeking through dark means to make a more perfect Emperor who the six ruling houses of the Empire can control. And why do they want this? Because the perfect Emperor is dictated by the Crest system.

    So Edelgard sees the system that led to the Insurrection of the Seven, that led to the infiltration of Those Who Slither in the Dark, and in that system she sees an evil older and greater than the people who tortured her and ended her family.

    Edelgard sees the enormity of the power arrayed against her, and with Byleth’s help gathers power for herself. She spreads word of her aims, decrying the evils of the system, and half the continent answers her. For five years she wages war against a thousand-year-old entrenchment, against power personified, and she wins.

    She wins. People die, people suffer, nations are broken, but more than nations she breaks the very firmament of power for the entire continent.

    Imagine that: deciding to fight, knowing you can win, being able to gather the forces necessary to end the oppression at the root of suffering. There are losses, you are not always right, perhaps you do terrible things, but at the end the world is different. Brighter. Fairer. And no one will ever again suffer for the reason you once suffered.

    It’s a good fantasy, I think.

    It's important to remember that Edelgard, in every path, even those in which she is the most firmly antagonistic (Azure Moon in particular), does not fight solely against the will of the continent. Half the lords in every region—Kingdom, Alliance, and Empire—declare allegiance for her. Dimitri puts down the lords in the Kingdom who would side with Edelgard (or, well, House Fraldarius does, more likely) while Edelgard unites the Empire.

    I like Crimson Flower for the same reason that I like Silver Snow: it's a path about really believing in something for its own sake.

    Verdant Wind is, too, but it's buried deep enough in subtext that most people don't pick up on it.
    Our boy Claude dreams of real empire. True empire, that will expand beyond the borders of Fodlan and spread his peaceful idea of proper culture across many continents. That's great character work; people just miss out on it because he's so nice about it.

    Azure Moon does in a small way, but it's much more typical Fire Emblem fare.
    Freedom to have a "legitimate" king is good, wars are never justified, the status quo wouldn't exist if there weren't good elements to it, etc.

    I don't agree with Silver Snow's path, obviously, and for a lot of reasons, but I liek that it has a very specific vision that informs the way characters (especially Byleth) act in it. It's so specific, in fact, that it makes Verdant Wind feel very weird, given that VW takes almsot all of Byleth's characterization from SS.

    dN0T6ur.png
    LockedOnTargetSilverWindnever dieWotanAnubis
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Verdant Wind just feels so weirdly out of place in the game to be honest. It seemed like the developers never had a great grasp on how to incorporate that path into the narrative. The goal of the faction just doesn't bring it into any kind of conflict with the rest of Fodlan. As much as I love a lot about that path and the characters, I think the game might have been better to shift resources from Verdant Wind and into a more fleshed out Crimson Sky.

  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    I made it to the timeskip with Golden Deer. I need more money, they took away my allowance right when I need to buy Master seals.

    Who is Judith to Claude? I just recruited her. I thought she was his mom at first but it doesn't seem to be the case.

    For someone who talks about how clever and schemey he is, Claude has had like one worthwhile scheme, and that was really just "blow shit up." Basically in our home base, to boot.

    Team Observations:
    Byleth-I win button.
    Hilda-Laughs at damage. Is now a Great Knight, so she laughs at damage as she tramples fools and then smashes them with an axe.
    Lysithea-One-shot the most recent boss, easily, saving Judith from certain death and me from a failed mission.
    Leonie-Falcon Knight. Damage isn't amazing but I can put her anywhere on the map, fast.
    Claude-Finally coming together. He felt a little fragile at the start of Part 2 but I've figured out how to use him better.
    Lorenz-Just made him a Dark Knight, so now he's real versatile and nasty. He's almost Byleth/Hilda/Leonie tier of untouchable, but not quite, and it's a little disappointing sometimes.
    Ignatz-Sniper has improved his strength and speed, so now he doublehits most of the time for good damage. I think he's back from the brink.
    Marianne-Starting to fall behind in levels, as my need for healers is falling and Byleth and Lysithea have figured out some heals themselves.
    Raphael-My biggest disappointment currently. Fists just don't hit very hard, and he's kind of a big soft target.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I’m trying to recall that dev interview that came out in the before times (February) and I think Edel was always supposed to be the mirror antagonist to Byleth and CF was hastily put together at the end of dev because they realized how compelling her story ended up being...that’s why it’s so short

    In addition, VW was supposed to be even longer and give even more backfill of Claude’s story- perhaps the reason VW and SS share so much is because of a compromise to finish a CF path at the expense of differentiating the other paths

  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    Regarding Raphael, I feel like a fistfighter needs both a towering Strength stat and good Speed; the former because you need to clear the enemy's defense rating and the latter because fists want as much multiplication of their base damage as they can get. That Raphael is so slow leads me to tend to dump him into Armor Knight.

    If you haven't already, point Raphael toward War Master and get his class mastery ASAP. Quick Riposte is one of the game's few genuinely busted individual abilities, and it'll help mitigate his poor Speed.

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Raphael is a real late bloomer.

    He pretty much has to be War Master to be scary but once he gets there it is pretty hilarious.

    He was double critting everything towards my endgame(if they survived the first hit of course.)

  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited April 6
    I’m trying to recall that dev interview that came out in the before times (February) and I think Edel was always supposed to be the mirror antagonist to Byleth and CF was hastily put together at the end of dev because they realized how compelling her story ended up being...that’s why it’s so short

    In addition, VW was supposed to be even longer and give even more backfill of Claude’s story- perhaps the reason VW and SS share so much is because of a compromise to finish a CF path at the expense of differentiating the other paths

    There was this spoiler-filled interview last month that explained Black Eagles came first.

    Specifically, Silver Snow.
    Q: Can you tell us which route was made first in order to expand and explore the world?

    Kusakihara: The first and second parts of the Empire route.. which is called by the userbase as the “Church Route”, Silver Snow. The progression of Class Leader Edelgard to become the antagonist… that is what we initially decided upon. It was from there, that every route’s story and the progression of other Lords as characters were expanded by the Koei Tecmo Scenario Team.

    Which goes a long way towards explaining why Azure Moon and Verdant Wind frequently feel like 'Silver Snow with extra bits bolted on'.

    WotanAnubis on
    Captain InertiaJanson
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    I dumped Raphael after I got him to level 15 without a single strength increase (the odds of which are something like a hundredth of a percent, incidentally). I have literally never before had such a disappointing character in my entire time playing Fire Emblem.

  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Registered User regular
    Raphael is my good strong son and he can do nothing wrong

  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    Terrendos wrote: »
    I dumped Raphael after I got him to level 15 without a single strength increase (the odds of which are something like a hundredth of a percent, incidentally). I have literally never before had such a disappointing character in my entire time playing Fire Emblem.

    You could pretty easily just train him into Warrior to raise it to the Warrior base strength (20? 21?) which isn't great for level 20, but serviceable.

  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Man I have found fists to be the most ridiculously powerful weapons in this game. To the point where honestly it feels like a tier list for first time Madness runs might include who has a natural affinity for fists. The bonus damage you get does not appear to be diluted across attacks from what I have seen. This makes them insane once you start stacking some bonuses to damage. I am expecting a very serious nerf to them in the next game and they will probably still be worth it.

    Raphael I also have a soft spot for. I ignored him in the first half the game but decided to give him a shot in the second. He is a slightly less amazing version of Dedue. Fortunately, Dedue is amazing enough that a bit off the top still leaves room for a good character. I haven't taken him into Madness yet admittedly. I suspect using him as a lure with busted ass Quick Riposte his complete lack of speed stops being a liability, and his gigantic HP pool will let him still fill his role well enough though.

    LordSolarMacharius
  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    edited April 7
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Terrendos wrote: »
    I dumped Raphael after I got him to level 15 without a single strength increase (the odds of which are something like a hundredth of a percent, incidentally). I have literally never before had such a disappointing character in my entire time playing Fire Emblem.

    You could pretty easily just train him into Warrior to raise it to the Warrior base strength (20? 21?) which isn't great for level 20, but serviceable.

    All of his stat ups were terrible, it was just strength was worst of all. Besides I did New Game+ Verdant Winds, so I already had a surplus of competent characters on my team. If memory serves I replaced him with Ferdinand, who got some lucky growths and ended up as maybe my 3rd or 4th best team member.

    Err... well, maybe 6th. But you can't really count Byleth, Claude, and Lysithea, they're basically always going to be delete keys.

    Terrendos on
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    In my current run where I'm basically just seeing all of the Ashen Wolves' interactions, I've had Ashe adjutanted onto Petra up through level 33 and he has more HP, str, speed and resistance than her, which is pretty bizarre.

    Also my Balthus has only missed strength on level-ups twice and is currently the equivalent of bringing a chainsaw cannon to an after school under the bleachers fight.

  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    This time I'm in favor of the title change

    Props to Whippy for seeing what needed to be done and doing it

    dN0T6ur.png
    Captain Inertia
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Yeah I’m Petra Hapi about the new title

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