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[DnD 5E] Level diver, just dip into ranger for a level or three

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Posts

  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    doomybear wrote: »
    haven't looked through it too much but the Blind Fighting fighting style just looks like it was made to be cheesy and is kinda unfun because the only way that one works is if you cast some kind of obscuring spell (darkness, fog cloud maybe?) and then go fight in it
    Blind Fighting is a pretty long running staple of D&D, might be in there just for "hey, if you can make it work, knock yourself out".

  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Multicast with warlocks for easy access to darkness.


    Or play a human in the underdark without a light source.

    steam_sig.png
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    OK, Critical Failures peeps. I need your curated opinion!

    I'm looking to make the Monks in my homebrew setting all like Benders from Avatar: Earth, Air, Fire & Water. But without any 4-element Avatar monks. The nature of the game world is that these schools are rare (There are 2 of each school across the whole world) and do not share their techniques. This may change, but so far I want the Benders to be special.

    But mechanically, Way of the Four Elements is not good enough. Sun Soul with some reflavouring per element is promising but there are not any non-combat elemental control options given. I suppose one could drop things like Stunning Strike, or Improved Unarmored Movement.... but that's the kind of Monk-y bullshit that makes Monk's awesome. Giving Monks access to spells, with a spell list limited to elemental control or big attacks, just seems OP. OTOT, forcing the Class to be a 1:1 Monk/Sorcerer multi-class, again with a limited spell list, would probably work too but I fear that would mechanically retard the awesomeness of the PC to fit the concept.

    Are there any actaully good unofficial Bender classes out there on the interwebs you number-crunching nerds could point me too, please? :)

  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    I have no links you provide you with, only "wisdom".
    I don't think benders should be monks. Their casting somatics are martial in nature but benders in the shows generally got their asses handed to them any time they went up against an actual warrior or a ki blocker.

    I'd reskin a cleric/warlock/sorc depending on which stat you want them to favour (prolly cha given that the show benders were rather diverse). Maybe switch out some capstones here and there.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    Take a look at 13th Age - there was a short-lived Bending-themed game I played in where everyone reflavored classes to represent various kinds of bending and it really worked.

    dt3GeqU.png
    Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Okay im digging in on this unearthed arcana and there's just so many things in it I want to play.

    I finally like want to play the other pact boons besides pact of the blade.

    Id totally go through a fighter ranger multi class start Outlander Fighter then pickup ranger at second level. At that point I've got a fighting style, second wind, the new favored enemy to increase damage per attack with hunters mark, the new natural explorer (tireless). Then go ranger for third level to get a second fighting style, and spells. Then 4th level go fighter to get that action surge.

    Like that seems like a fun progression to play through.

    NipsYoutube
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    edited November 5
    evilthecat wrote: »
    I have no links you provide you with, only "wisdom".
    I don't think benders should be monks. Their casting somatics are martial in nature but benders in the shows generally got their asses handed to them any time they went up against an actual warrior or a ki blocker.

    I'd reskin a cleric/warlock/sorc depending on which stat you want them to favour (prolly cha given that the show benders were rather diverse). Maybe switch out some capstones here and there.

    But... I like the idea of them being monks, full of monk-y bullshit... slow falling and wall running and face-kicking and all that jazz. And when I brought up the idea, my players were super excited about it. I'm leaning towards forcing a multi-class scenario where the Bender would have to take a 1:1 or 1:1 ratio of Monk and Sorcerer with a modified draconic bloodline to reflect elements and a limited spell list. I might forgo material spell components to balance out a very small spell list? I dunno, just thinking with my fingers now...

    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Take a look at 13th Age - there was a short-lived Bending-themed game I played in where everyone reflavored classes to represent various kinds of bending and it really worked.

    I'm sure it was great.... but I'm not a fan of mixing systems. This homebrew is designed with 5e in mind and this bending shit is just a small portion of it.

    Steelhawk on
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    I've been working on a way of the four elements replacement that isnt crap

    So far I'm at third caster, can cast spells as a bonus action after punching, spell list consists of all the elemental stuff, innately gets Shape Water, Gust, Mold Earth, Control Flames

  • XagarXagar Registered User regular
    Next session is tonight, so excited~

    My DM's recap of last time:
    Episode 3 Recap: The Shrines

    Teidi Flud drifted back to consciousness with a delicious smell in his nostrils, being prodded with a wooden spoon and handed a bowl. He sat up awkwardly and took the bowl of mushroom stew without thinking about it, still groggy from the poison and sore from being carried like a sack of potatoes. At least he hoped it was mushroom - it smelled a lot like those vegepygmies they'd seen at the lava pit. He shrugged and kept going - goodberry supplies were running low anyway, with two dinosaurs and an almiraj to feed, plus four kamadan cubs. No sense in wastin' good eats!

    A few bites in, Teidi realized he was chained to a workbench. He was in one of Omu's endless ruined buildings, but the walls were covered with keys, tinker's tools and thieves' tools. He must be in an old locksmith's shop, now gone to seed. He felt around for his crossbows - gone, of course. Looking up from the stew, he found his captor rooting through his pack: an old tabaxi hunter, still dressed for battle in leather armor with two swords and a bow, with a headdress of green feathers. Like a mountain lion crossed with a frontier scout, he kept one eye on his prey and one on his work, and Teidi realized belatedly he'd been talking since he woke up. He tried to pretend he'd been paying attention the whole time.

    "Just wanted you to know, mate, it's nothin' personal. Y'see, I'm a hunter. I'm the best hunter in Chult, and right now I'm hunting the most dangerous game of all: explorers! Bag of Nails is the greatest hunter of all time, they'll say. You seem like an all right bloke, you're a good hunter and a tracker - I was lucky to get the drop on you earlier. So I had to take you out of the picture first. They'll come for ya, and they'll get what's comin' to 'em all right. Now, I saw you staying outside instead of investigating the shrines with your friends, so I thought you were on the outs. So I took some precautions of my own. Even if they don't like you, they'll come for this." Bag of Nails held up a small stone cube, inscribed with the image of a snail.

    "Oi! Don't look at me like that. I'm not the villain here. It's your crew who's been makin' a big ruckus in this town. I heard you stole from my best mate, Kakarol the kobold. He came running to me, and I decided to keep an eye on you from a safe distance. Maybe he'll know what this little treasure is, eh?" Bag of Nails turned the jade statue of Meepo around in his hands, but finding no obvious use for it, put it back in the bag. "Now, I thought it could all be a misunderstanding, but I was having lunch with Hooded Lantern and he told me you had roughed up the King of Feathers, the prettiest dinosaur in the world. So I paid a visit to Copper Bell on the east side of town, and she said she saw a group of adventurers getting all chummy with Ras Nsi this morning. From what I hear, you knocked on the door and came out with a triceratops and a slave girl and that old goat Soakosh. Looks like you're old friends, eh? Well, friends of the yuan-ti that come around knocking down what's left of the place aren't welcome here, and they'll find a nasty surprise waiting for them when they find you."

    Bag of Nails kept up his end of the conversation, words tumbling out with hardly a breath in between, until Teidi couldn't help but think there was something a little off about him. "Don't get me wrong, I like the style of your band. I got a real kick out of how your warlock friend banished the froghemoth, confused it with illusions, and did a smash and grab for Kubazan's puzzle cube. You didn't get involved in local politics either - you don't want to get in between the vegepygmies and the beloved one hundred and sixth son of King Groak, let me tell ya. That's a smart play, that is. And your girl, that rogue's got a good head on her shoulders. She knew you sorry bunch couldn't care for those kamadan cubs properly, so she tried to put 'em down easy. Looks like she didn't put enough poison in the food, but hey, I've made that mistake myself. I could give her some pointers, I bet, if I weren't planning to kill her tonight. And for a bunch of despicable villains, you haven't tried to cheat the gladiators at Shagambi's shrine - that surprised me. Maybe the orc is too vain to accept any help, or maybe you think there's some magic trap waiting to go off. Pity you'll never find out."

    "I see you have some boys and girls of your own. I couldn't bear to leave those sweet dinos without a father, so I thought I'd keep you safe and sound in here, and if your buds get the better of us, we can all have a bowl of stew together. No hard feelings, what do you say?" Teidi seethed, testing the strength of his chains, but knew better than to answer. He was gonna get this varmint, one way or another.

    override367Tynnan
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited November 5
    Four Elements Replacement that isn't crap: test 1

    Way of the ONE element:

    When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you learn magical disciplines that harness the power of one of the four elements. A discipline may require you to spend ki points each time you use it.

    When you choose this discipline at level 3 you must pick one of the four elements: Earth, Air, Water, or Fire. You learn may cast spells from each discipline spell list. Your spellcasting attribute is wisdom and each spell, regardless of the spells description requires somatic components but does NOT require verbal or material components. Casting a spell requires Ki points equal to the spell slot that would otherwise be taken up by the spell plus one. If a spell may be cast at a higher level increasing its level requires 1 ki point per level. There is no limit to the amount of Ki spent in this manner with the exception that spells may not spend more than 10 ki points on a single spell. Using a cantrip requires no Ki points.

    Spell Lists:

    Earth:

    Cantrip: Mold Earth
    3rd Level:Arcane Weapon(Acid Only, Self Only), Entangle(Stones not Vines)
    7th Level: Earthen Grasp, Spike Growth
    13th Level: Meld Into Stone, Wall of Sand, Erupting Earth
    17th Level: Fabricate(Stone/Mineral only, no size restriction), Stone Shape, Resilient Sphere(opaque, its stone)

    Air

    Cantrip: Gust
    3rd Level:Arcane Weapon(Thunder Only, Self Only), Thunderwave, LongStrider
    7th Level: Warding Wind, Gust of Wind, Skywrite
    13th Level: Call Lightning, Haste(Self Only), Wind Wall
    17th Level: Storm Sphere, Insert Wind Base Spell here Ideally 4th level

    Water

    Cantrip: Shape Water
    3rd Level: Fog Cloud, Ice Knife, Arcane Weapon(Cold Only, Self Only)
    7th Level: Snowball Swarm, Shatter (using Water),
    13th Level: Tidal Wave, Wall of Water, Water Walk, Sleet Storm
    17th Level: Watery Sphere, Control Water

    Fire

    Cantrip: Control Flames
    3rd Level:Arcane Weapon(FireOnly, Self Only), Burning Hands, Jump
    7th Level: Flaming Sphere, Heat Metal, Pyrotechnics
    13th Level: Minute Meteors, Flame Arrow(Darts only), Fireball(?!)
    17th Level: Fire Shield(Warm Only), Wall of Fire

    Expanding Mastery
    At level 6 the area and effect of your cantrips increases by 5

    Mold Earth: The area you may modify increases to a 10 ft cube and you may move it up to 10 feet away
    Gust: The creature pushing effect now increases to a 10 ft cube and pushes 10 feet away. When pushing a single unheld object it may weight up to 10 pounds and be pushed 15 feet
    Shape Water: The area you may modify increases to a 10 ft cube and you may move it or modify its flow up to 10 feet
    Control Flames: The area you may modify increases up to a 10 ft cube and you may move it up to 10 feet. You may triple the light provided by a flame.

    At level 11 and 17 all of these benefits increase by another 5 feet. The light provided by Control Flames can be quadrupled or quintupled respectively.

    Reach of the Elements

    When you hit level 11 you may choose to extend your melee reach by 5 feet and deal the elemental damage associated with your element (Acid, Thunder, Cold, Fire). You may not pick and choose. If you extend the reach you do the elemental damage.

    Investiture
    At level 17 you may cast investiture of the relevant element once per day. This version does not require concentration.


    Edit: This is roughly half level spellcasting progression which is more limited to being OK on a melee class because you cannot be a half level spellfaster and a monk using the same attributes. If the build is too powerful you can trim spells. If the build is not powerful enough you can remove the +1 requirement for ki costs on spells. (which increases by a huge amount the ability to cast spells).

    Alternately you can reduce the cost to cast spells based on a level basis. Such that 1st level spells eventually become free.

    Edit: OR you could grant Martial Arts Bonus Action whenever you cast a spell. Such that you could use flurry of blows when you thunderwave. Or bonus action dodge...




    Goumindong on
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    TarantioSteelhawkKadoken
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    I'm going to do this but allow the monk to meditate over a long rest to switch their element

    My players will like this

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Thinking about it again. Ignoring Spells with the exception of a hot few(Basically a Thunderwave/Burning Hands Equivalent or Arcane Weapon Equivalent for each). Adding the "you may make monk bonus actions as if you attacked when you cast a spell" and adding the cantrips and the expanding cantrips may be enough with the level 11 range increase/elemental damage and the level 17 investiture.

    The cantrips, i fear, can get very strong as they "rank up".

    wbBv3fj.png
    Steelhawk
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Meditating over a long rest to switch your element seems... iffy. Given the raw power there. Probably better to give all four elements at once as a legendary boon or something similar. That is, its a plot aspect and not inherent to the class

    wbBv3fj.png
  • TarantioTarantio Registered User regular
    What are you trying to balance these monks against? Other PCs? Adventure content?

    Have you looked into gestalt characters? You basically have them level as two classes simultaneously. https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/85259t/gestalt_characters_5e/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Four Elements Replacement that isn't crap: test 1

    Way of the ONE element:

    When you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you learn magical disciplines that harness the power of one of the four elements. A discipline may require you to spend ki points each time you use it.

    When you choose this discipline at level 3 you must pick one of the four elements: Earth, Air, Water, or Fire. You learn may cast spells from each discipline spell list. Your spellcasting attribute is wisdom and each spell, regardless of the spells description requires somatic components but does NOT require verbal or material components. Casting a spell requires Ki points equal to the spell slot that would otherwise be taken up by the spell plus one. If a spell may be cast at a higher level increasing its level requires 1 ki point per level. There is no limit to the amount of Ki spent in this manner with the exception that spells may not spend more than 10 ki points on a single spell. Using a cantrip requires no Ki points.

    Spell Lists:

    Earth:

    Cantrip: Mold Earth
    3rd Level:Arcane Weapon(Acid Only, Self Only), Entangle(Stones not Vines)
    7th Level: Earthen Grasp, Spike Growth
    13th Level: Meld Into Stone, Wall of Sand, Erupting Earth
    17th Level: Fabricate(Stone/Mineral only, no size restriction), Stone Shape, Resilient Sphere(opaque, its stone)

    Air

    Cantrip: Gust
    3rd Level:Arcane Weapon(Thunder Only, Self Only), Thunderwave, LongStrider
    7th Level: Warding Wind, Gust of Wind, Skywrite
    13th Level: Call Lightning, Haste(Self Only), Wind Wall
    17th Level: Storm Sphere, Insert Wind Base Spell here Ideally 4th level

    Water

    Cantrip: Shape Water
    3rd Level: Fog Cloud, Ice Knife, Arcane Weapon(Cold Only, Self Only)
    7th Level: Snowball Swarm, Shatter (using Water),
    13th Level: Tidal Wave, Wall of Water, Water Walk, Sleet Storm
    17th Level: Watery Sphere, Control Water

    Fire

    Cantrip: Control Flames
    3rd Level:Arcane Weapon(FireOnly, Self Only), Burning Hands, Jump
    7th Level: Flaming Sphere, Heat Metal, Pyrotechnics
    13th Level: Minute Meteors, Flame Arrow(Darts only), Fireball(?!)
    17th Level: Fire Shield(Warm Only), Wall of Fire

    Expanding Mastery
    At level 6 the area and effect of your cantrips increases by 5

    Mold Earth: The area you may modify increases to a 10 ft cube and you may move it up to 10 feet away
    Gust: The creature pushing effect now increases to a 10 ft cube and pushes 10 feet away. When pushing a single unheld object it may weight up to 10 pounds and be pushed 15 feet
    Shape Water: The area you may modify increases to a 10 ft cube and you may move it or modify its flow up to 10 feet
    Control Flames: The area you may modify increases up to a 10 ft cube and you may move it up to 10 feet. You may triple the light provided by a flame.

    At level 11 and 17 all of these benefits increase by another 5 feet. The light provided by Control Flames can be quadrupled or quintupled respectively.

    Reach of the Elements

    When you hit level 11 you may choose to extend your melee reach by 5 feet and deal the elemental damage associated with your element (Acid, Thunder, Cold, Fire). You may not pick and choose. If you extend the reach you do the elemental damage.

    Investiture
    At level 17 you may cast investiture of the relevant element once per day. This version does not require concentration.


    Edit: This is roughly half level spellcasting progression which is more limited to being OK on a melee class because you cannot be a half level spellfaster and a monk using the same attributes. If the build is too powerful you can trim spells. If the build is not powerful enough you can remove the +1 requirement for ki costs on spells. (which increases by a huge amount the ability to cast spells).

    Alternately you can reduce the cost to cast spells based on a level basis. Such that 1st level spells eventually become free.

    Edit: OR you could grant Martial Arts Bonus Action whenever you cast a spell. Such that you could use flurry of blows when you thunderwave. Or bonus action dodge...




    This is good stuff, thanks for the launching point. I didn't have time yesterday but I think I could achieve good results with multi-classing. I think a lot of the heavy lifting of the bending part of a element bender are the spells. But I still want the class, in my game, to be a monastic order. Like in Dr. Strange, where the wizards there are not graybeards with canes, but kung-fu masters with a lot of old books and time to study them.

    I'll see if I screw the pooch at work today and try and come up with something.

  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    I did a quick 6 level build of sun soul monk 3/sorcerer 3 while I should have been working to represent a fire bender... I'd like to able to work within the system as much as possible to mitigate my own workload. I'm actually kind of liking this forcing a multiclass idea.

    Fire: https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/Steelhawk691/characters/18709003

    Water: https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/Steelhawk691/characters/18708283

    First thing that stands out is that Fire Bolt/Ray of Frost as a cantrip already far outshines the monks melee attacks damage wise....mitigated only by the fact that Monks have the option of multiple punches, vs. only one cantrip. That might be a problem, but maybe I'll see how it plays out at the table?

    Second thing is that the Draconic Bloodline fits well with a Fire Bender or Water Bender, but maybe not an another type of bender. Nothing in the Sorcerous Origin covers air or earth. I might have to come up with my own origin to plug into DnD Beyond? Not looking forwards to that, but it might get me what I want.

    I like having the spells there to represent non-combat bending (create bonfire, fog cloud, featherfall, etc...) as well as some extra combat options. And I feel like Absorb Elements needs to be there ("your" element only) and things like shield, which I think would be refluffed as throwing up a wall of your chosen element instead of a magical forcefield. Featherfall seems fullt rooted as a air bending spell.... but I questioned Jump. Sure, clearly air bending.... but also could be fluffed as using your chosen element to give you a boost?

  • Dizzy DDizzy D NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    I did a quick 6 level build of sun soul monk 3/sorcerer 3 while I should have been working to represent a fire bender... I'd like to able to work within the system as much as possible to mitigate my own workload. I'm actually kind of liking this forcing a multiclass idea.

    Fire: https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/Steelhawk691/characters/18709003

    Water: https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/Steelhawk691/characters/18708283

    First thing that stands out is that Fire Bolt/Ray of Frost as a cantrip already far outshines the monks melee attacks damage wise....mitigated only by the fact that Monks have the option of multiple punches, vs. only one cantrip. That might be a problem, but maybe I'll see how it plays out at the table?

    Second thing is that the Draconic Bloodline fits well with a Fire Bender or Water Bender, but maybe not an another type of bender. Nothing in the Sorcerous Origin covers air or earth. I might have to come up with my own origin to plug into DnD Beyond? Not looking forwards to that, but it might get me what I want.

    I like having the spells there to represent non-combat bending (create bonfire, fog cloud, featherfall, etc...) as well as some extra combat options. And I feel like Absorb Elements needs to be there ("your" element only) and things like shield, which I think would be refluffed as throwing up a wall of your chosen element instead of a magical forcefield. Featherfall seems fullt rooted as a air bending spell.... but I questioned Jump. Sure, clearly air bending.... but also could be fluffed as using your chosen element to give you a boost?

    Sorcerous Origin for air could probably be covered by Storm.
    Earth... I guess Giant Soul comes closest (but that's UA) and would require some tweaking.

    Steam/Origin: davydizzy
    Steelhawk
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Storm usually denotes lightning based effects, which is not typical if we're using the show as a template for what a bender actually is.

    Lightning should have been an air bending trait but for some reason it was given to fire benders in the show.

    That is something I'll have to think about.

  • NealnealNealneal Registered User regular
    Isn't Acid type the old "Earth" damage type? Maybe black dragon bloodline? Acid Splash as the cantrip.

    I think green dragons with their Poison Breath is the closest to an Air related Draconic Bloodline though. Poison Spray as the cantrip.

    These are hacks at best though, just random lunchtime thoughts really.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited November 6
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Meditating over a long rest to switch your element seems... iffy. Given the raw power there. Probably better to give all four elements at once as a legendary boon or something similar. That is, its a plot aspect and not inherent to the class

    I don't really agree, each type of element will do roughly the same damage anyway, and "elemental specialists" tie the dungeon master's hands unless they just want a player to feel like they're crap against lots of types of content (eg: if someone picks fire monk, well they sure are going to feel like they're pulling their weight against devils or red dragons or salamanders, etc). Balancing around damage output is the easiest thing in a DM's tookit and I always seek to provide martials with some utility so they don't feel like second fiddles outside of combat

    here's my rough, rouuugh outline for what I have so far

    4rLOOWG.png

    I always start on the "overpowered" end for homebrew, I'll probably have someone try this out in a one shot or try it myself and see how it feels (once i get it into D&D beyond and nail down the spell list), there are already some things (like spell upleveling) that are going to get nixed because its too good

    override367 on
  • Dizzy DDizzy D NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Storm usually denotes lightning based effects, which is not typical if we're using the show as a template for what a bender actually is.

    Lightning should have been an air bending trait but for some reason it was given to fire benders in the show.

    That is something I'll have to think about.

    Storm as published in Xanathar (AFAIK not that different from the UA version, though I haven't really checked that one) is about 50% wind/air, 40% lightning and 10% general weather so there are some useful things in there if you just want it wind/air-focused (sorry for stating things you might already know) and some of the lightning abilities with it allow you to do thunder damage instead, which probably is more what you want. It's not perfect, but probably worth a look at the UA version if you don't have Xanathar's.


    Steam/Origin: davydizzy
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited November 6
    [...]
    I always start on the "overpowered" end for homebrew, I'll probably have someone try this out in a one shot or try it myself and see how it feels (once i get it into D&D beyond and nail down the spell list), there are already some things (like spell upleveling) that are going to get nixed because its too good

    Quote cut for space

    If you're going to give your duders cantrips then i would suggest NOT adding damage to the "normal" elemental cantrips. Make them spend a spell and not just a Ki point for that. Especially because the damage will quickly challenge your first and second level spells as the damage on those cantrips is a decent AoE. As a third level caster you're going to top out at 4th level spells maybe? So cutting off your first and second level spells is going to be a large issue especially since you should be thematically limited to elemental based Transmutation, Evocation, and Conjuration spells (I.E. mainly damage spells)
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    IFirst thing that stands out is that Fire Bolt/Ray of Frost as a cantrip already far outshines the monks melee attacks damage wise....mitigated only by the fact that Monks have the option of multiple punches, vs. only one cantrip. That might be a problem, but maybe I'll see how it plays out at the table?

    It should not? A monk should be hitting for 2d6+8 == 15 avg with 2 attacks at level 6. A level 11 fire bolt should do 3d10 = 16.5 damage. With a dragon sorcerer that should be 21.5 damage at most if you have +5 charisma. So at most you should be doing 1 damage more with fire bolt and that is assuming you have more charisma than dexterity. And the Monk can flurry of blows for another 15 average damage putting him at 30. Far higher than your fire bolt.

    Goumindong on
    wbBv3fj.png
    Steelhawk
  • FryFry Registered User regular
    "All spells changed to require Somatic components but not Verbal" is potentially a balance issue (it makes these folks immune to Silence, and consequently dropping Silence to counter enemy standard spellcasters becomes even more relatively good than it already is). My intuition would be that it's fine to keep the verbal components; the flavor explanation can be that the monks have to ki-shout to cause the magic to happen.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    If they were full casters maybe. But they're only 1/3rd level casters at most and use that mainly to supplement melee. Blowing a silence on the monk isn't a good idea even if it stops them from casting. They're going to say "OK, thanks" as they walk that silence right next to the caster who cast it and beat them to a pulp. Plus, none of the other monks Ki abilities require verbal components so it would not fit with the other themed mechanics

    Nor does it fit with the themed mechanics of spells. Because a Ki shout has the power in the shout (as an effect and so would be negated by silence) but Ki Shouting to produce another effect would have the power in the Ki, not the words. Spells that require verbal components the magic is in the words

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    override367Steelhawk
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited November 6
    Goumindong wrote: »
    [...]
    I always start on the "overpowered" end for homebrew, I'll probably have someone try this out in a one shot or try it myself and see how it feels (once i get it into D&D beyond and nail down the spell list), there are already some things (like spell upleveling) that are going to get nixed because its too good

    Quote cut for space

    If you're going to give your duders cantrips then i would suggest NOT adding damage to the "normal" elemental cantrips. Make them spend a spell and not just a Ki point for that. Especially because the damage will quickly challenge your first and second level spells as the damage on those cantrips is a decent AoE. As a third level caster you're going to top out at 4th level spells maybe? So cutting off your first and second level spells is going to be a large issue especially since you should be thematically limited to elemental based Transmutation, Evocation, and Conjuration spells (I.E. mainly damage spells)
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    IFirst thing that stands out is that Fire Bolt/Ray of Frost as a cantrip already far outshines the monks melee attacks damage wise....mitigated only by the fact that Monks have the option of multiple punches, vs. only one cantrip. That might be a problem, but maybe I'll see how it plays out at the table?

    It should not? A monk should be hitting for 2d6+8 == 15 avg with 2 attacks at level 6. A level 11 fire bolt should do 3d10 = 16.5 damage. With a dragon sorcerer that should be 21.5 damage at most if you have +5 charisma. So at most you should be doing 1 damage more with fire bolt and that is assuming you have more charisma than dexterity. And the Monk can flurry of blows for another 15 average damage putting him at 30. Far higher than your fire bolt.

    Ooh I actually agree with this, Ill keep the scaling but make them require a spell slot

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited November 6
    The other thing making them spend a spell slot does is that it makes it a LOT easier to fill in the holes that exist in the available spells without as much work

    Make it a 2d8 (no modifier) spell at first level +1d8/level (so they can spend Ki to power it up further). And if that isn't enough with it being signature you could increase the area too. Letting them spend Ki to power spells up makes me tend to think that you should not has as strong per/level scaling on spells because Ki is not a very limited resource. A 1st level spell +2 ki points is easy peasy because the Ki points are short rest mechanic.

    Also worth noting the potential control mechanics they can bring. Gust should be Thunder damage i think. (though this would be negated in a silence so not sure)

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    I'm thinking that Ki scaling shouldn't exceed 1 over their maximum casting level

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Maybe. Powering up spells is never all that great an idea anyway. And i feel there is going to be a lot of overlap in spell power. Like.. +1d8 damage/Ki isn't a lot when you're hitting for 1d6+4[up to 1d10+5] (or can apply a stun effect) for a Ki Point. Sure its AoE and likely save half. But even then. 1d6+4 = 7.5 dmg. 1d8 = 4.5 dmg.

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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited November 8
    Oh found a new diver in the UA. This time it's bard/warlock. Pact of the talisman and jack of all trades stacks. So by level 5 you would have half proficiency plus a d4 to all untrained skills (at level 5 that's d4+1), and your eldritch blast is still scaling normally so you don't lose out on the damage side of the game by not sticking with a single class till 5. The next big thing to pick up is the protection of the talisman invocation at warlock level 9 so bard is definitely the dip in this case.

    Actually if we wanna keep the title joke going you could make it a 3 way split and dip one level into divine soul sorc just for favored of the gods. So in the end a 12th level build but I think at that point you like have to be celestial pact warlock too in order to really hit the flavor.

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  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    I'm sure some of you have seen me posting about my job in other threads. Short story, I work in an office of nerds. Our helpdesk manager (not my boss) has been working to organize a office/friend-wide DND game. Today was our first game and boy was it a massive success. We had 16 people show up to our first session. Manager tapped me and 1 other guy to run 3 concurrent adventures to kick the campaign off, goal of getting the players in the same city by the end of the session. My group had the most important task of all. Awakening the ancient evil and actually kicking off the campaign. This was the first game for 3 of my 4 players. The other only had a small bit of experience. I hadn't played DND since 3rd end and never really DMed a game before. To his credit, Manager had everything laid out for me and we arguably had the most straight forward series of events.

    Our adventure kicked off with the part assembling at an oasis in the desert, brought there but a traveling merchant. We have a half-orc barbarian, a dwarf cleric, a human wizard and a catgirl bard. The merchant led the party to a newly unearthed pyramid in the desert. Their goal was the pillage their way through the pyramid and divide up the loot between them. They make their way into the pyramid only to find warnings of death and destruction written all over the walls. The first encounter is with a giant poisonous snake in the entry hall. All but 1 fail a dex check and are blinded by sand being whipped up by a gathering storm outside. The snake start attacking the Barb, hitting him hard the first turn and nearly killing him the 2nd. The bard gets lucky with a sleep spell. I give everyone enough time to clear the sand from their eyes and get an attack of opportunity against the snake. The party take it down to just a couple of health the next turn but my d4 decided it was going to attack the wizard next. It get a massive strike, taking him down to 0hp and bleeding out. The cleric uses his turn to heal the wizard back up. The barb misses his attack. Because they were struggling with the fight so much I ignored the poison part of the attack. It all came down to the bard vs the snake. The bard decides to use Vicious Mockery to deal 1d4 of damage. He rolls a 2 and manages to kill the giant snake. We had a good laugh about it, mocking a giant snake to death. The part makes their way further into the dungeon and have an encounter with a trap and a skeleton. Again it's the barb who gets sent in first to fall into the trap and nearly get killed by the skeleton in the pit with him. Further in the party of 4 encounters 6 skeletons which very nearly kill the barb again. At this point I encourage them to send the cleric tank in first. Their final fight of the dungeon is a spectre. It's attack is 3d6 of life drain with the added effect of reducing the total hit points of the target by the amount of damage the attack did. I roll low for the spectre's intuitive so it attacked last. The bard decides to viciously mock it which gives it a disadvantage roll for it's next attack, only doing 1 damage, though. The other players attack and it takes only a small bit more damage due to it's resistances. The bard is the only one with a magical weapon capable of cutting through the DR. After a while we finally get to the specter's turn. Since the clarec triggered the encounter, it attacks him. I roll to hit and it does. I roll the damage and 2 of the dice were 6s, the other a 4. Our poor level 1 cleric was reduced to -3 health. Normally the party could save him but the drain life had a final kicker. If the targets full HP is reduced to 0, they straight up die. I didn't see any way around it. It was only then that the bard reminded me that there was supposed to have been a disadvantage roll on that attack. Not wanting to straight up murder a first time player's character, I call a redo on that attack phase. The attack still hits but the damage dice were much more favorable and the cleric's health was only reduced by half. The next round of player attacks do little damage. The next monster attack misses. The final combat round saw a spectre spewing ectoplasm all over the players as the bard slices the thing in half with the magic sword he got off one of the skeletons. Finally they make their way to the final encounter where they pry the lid off of an ancient sarcophagus only to find a mummy inside. The mummy's eyes start glowing, he sits up and announces his freedom to the party. They manage to resist attacking it and listen to it yammer on about the strange people around him and their strange ways. They are all teleported into the sealed basement of a temple in a far far away land. The party almost attacks the priest that came to free them but a general lack of interest in attacking them kept the encounter from happening. All 3 adventures had lead all 16 people to the same city.

    Manager designed the campaign to allow for people to drop in and out at will. He's got enough material written up to keep it at 3 concurrent adventures or shrink it down to 2 or even 1. Everything went so well today. Everyone in my part had a ton of fun and even went out for beers after to jazz about it.

    11/10 would DM again.

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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Now you just need to write it up as a team building exercise and boom, billable hours

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  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Now you just need to write it up as a team building exercise and boom, billable hours

    Well, the owner of the company and his son were in one of the 3 groups. That makes it a work function, right?

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  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Anybody got a link to a particularly good fantasy name generator?

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  • TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    edited November 10
    Tox wrote: »
    Anybody got a link to a particularly good fantasy name generator?

    Donjon is decent and has a lot of functions. Fantasy Name Generator has a wide variety of name categories, though on mobile they’re a bit clunky and ad-filled. Neither is perfect, but they’re useful.

    Tynnan on
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  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    Just saw the leaks of the final Artificer build in Eberron, and it's actually what I wanted to play as, even before - a smart guy tinkerer with a tricked out crossbow and trick bolts with different elemental properties, and other gadgets, hopefully alchemical (but no homunculi). I instinctively ignored the class's previous UA releases nor checked out homebrews because I never really put two and two together.

    Sure, they say the Alchemist is the weakest one (almost PHB Beast Master levels) now, but as long as I can do Repeating Crossbow + Arcane Weapon, I'm happy.

  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Just saw the leaks of the final Artificer build in Eberron, and it's actually what I wanted to play as, even before - a smart guy tinkerer with a tricked out crossbow and trick bolts with different elemental properties, and other gadgets, hopefully alchemical (but no homunculi). I instinctively ignored the class's previous UA releases nor checked out homebrews because I never really put two and two together.

    Sure, they say the Alchemist is the weakest one (almost PHB Beast Master levels) now, but as long as I can do Repeating Crossbow + Arcane Weapon, I'm happy.

    Would you like to share with the class? :P

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  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    Just saw the leaks of the final Artificer build in Eberron, and it's actually what I wanted to play as, even before - a smart guy tinkerer with a tricked out crossbow and trick bolts with different elemental properties, and other gadgets, hopefully alchemical (but no homunculi). I instinctively ignored the class's previous UA releases nor checked out homebrews because I never really put two and two together.

    Sure, they say the Alchemist is the weakest one (almost PHB Beast Master levels) now, but as long as I can do Repeating Crossbow + Arcane Weapon, I'm happy.

    Would you like to share with the class? :P

    Sorry, my bad! Reddit link. I'm assuming this is from the upcoming Eberron book.

    The Unearthed Arcana version, for cross-reference.

  • LindLind Registered User regular
    edited November 11
  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    edited November 11
    Had my first big plan disruption last night in the game I am DMing. We are playing though the starter pack, and had reached the castle near the end. Originally the players are supposed to fight through the castle and confront the bugbear King. Well I chose to have the castle be almost empty and have the enemies show up in a giant war party returning from conquest. I came up with custom roles for each of my players based on their class and personality. It was the whole thing I had planned where they would use arrow volleys, traps, and spells to whittle down the enemies so that it would be a smaller group by the time they actually got into the castle.

    Cue my wife saying she wants to use the lightning bolt scroll she found. So she runs to the doors of the castle, faces the incoming horde and lets loose 40 fucking damage. Half the war party roasted where they stood. So much for all of my plans.

    It was a pretty epic end to the night though so I can't be that mad.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited November 11
    Out of the abyss went the opposite of smoothly for the DM, I like keeping him on his toes

    First of all I convinced the party to betray the keepers of the flame in the dwarven city, and we massacred them with the help of the red dragon. Then the dragon hired us to knock off the king, so we we did - after a long battle I charm monster'd the succubus that was with the king and had her pretend to be him, when the rest of the soldiers burst in and saw dozens of dead royal guards (and no dead king, tossed his body in the lava - duergar always have lava) and their king, wounded and holding up a hand - "he" told his guards that these adventurers had saved him from traitors, and go assemble outside and wait for orders.

    Outside we hear 50 dwarves getting fire breathed by an adult red dragon. My character, being a firm believer in deals and rewarding, let the succubus drain half my hitpoints before banishing it back to the abyss

    During the fight I had telekinesis up and was just tossing royal guards into lava, it was wonderful

    DM wasn't expecting us to hand the city over to a red dragon - my logic is that a red dragon is willfull enough to resist the encroaching madness of demogorgon and his evil rule might be all that saves the city. My character is true neutral and also not the brightest.

    As we leave the city to head to Blingdenstone (and then, back to waterdeep) the Fighter says "Hey it occurs to me the king probably was ignoring the demonic encroachment because of the succubus charming him, we probably could have just called her out and let the dwarves sort things"

    Whoopsie!

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