[DnD 5E] You're rollin' dice with your pals the other day...

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited January 17
    class variants is wonderful and makes the sorcerer a less bad-wizard

    override367 on
  • SchadenfreudeSchadenfreude Mean Mister Mustard Registered User regular
    Off-topic - how has the Class Feature Variant UA supplement been working out for you guys?

    Also, is there anything from the new Fighting Styles you've made available to the Bard College of Swords?
    * Blind Fighting
    * Interception
    * Thrown Weapon Fighting
    * Unarmed Fighting

    My character is a rogue so the only Variant UA option for him is the Aim feature. As a bonus action I can Aim - I must forgo all movement that round to do so, but can then make a ranged attack with advantage.

    I used it for one session and in that session I basically became a stationary turret. Mechanically, it was almost always the best option - why attempt to hide, or dash, or disengage to get my Sneak Attack when I can just Aim? I can see why they added it, as a remedy to DMs who really don't want rogues to get their sneak attack but it's not for me - just led to really unengaging play.

    Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    edited January 17
    Sneak attack is a frustrating thing for a DM though. Like, its really easy for a rouge, especially a halfling rogue, to be hidden. At mid levels a bonus action hide with dice rolls pushing past 20 for stealth checks beats almost all baddies passive perceptions. And eating a bad guys action to search? Likely in vain? No thanks. And, again as a halfling, being able to get concealment behind one of your larger companions? Gawddamn. And then once that big giant fighter butt you are hiding behind runs into melee, well, you've got your sneak attacks there anyway.

    Sneak attacks are already too easy to land, imo. Which I think is intended by design so I allow it, if personally annoying. It does make rogues awesome. So whats one more path of getting there?

    Steelhawk on
  • SchadenfreudeSchadenfreude Mean Mister Mustard Registered User regular
    I just don't understand why a DM would get frustrated at Sneak Attack. That's the class's combat feature, they're meant to be able to Sneak Attack [nearly] every round and even then they do less average damage than other classes like monks or fighters. It's not like it's stunning strike!

    Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe
    NipsGlalFrySmrtnikfurlionSleepBullheadTynnanRhesus PositiveCaedwyroverride367ElvenshaeMrVyngaard
  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    My Tiefling rogue has finally wised up and if she rolls ahead of the paladin or fighter she holds her action. The bonus damage from sneak attack is really all the rogues get for quite some time unless they go arcane trickster. Plus my players tend to stack damage on single targets (which they figured out on their own!) so she pretty much always has a companion within 5 feet of her target. Honestly the bad part is how little she can do on a miss. Only one attack means her whole turn is gone.

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
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    Bullhead
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    I just don't understand why a DM would get frustrated at Sneak Attack. That's the class's combat feature, they're meant to be able to Sneak Attack [nearly] every round and even then they do less average damage than other classes like monks or fighters. It's not like it's stunning strike!

    I understand its a class feature. And I appreciate it. And frustration may be the wrong word... amazement? befuddlement? jealousy? I dunno. :)

    I guess since the damage is SO high compared to a fighter or even a barbarian.... getting that damage almost every round feels teeny bit unfair to martial characters. I mean, I've watched fighters frown sadly at doing 3 hits of 15-20 damage each that he had to work for and then watch the Rogue handily flounce around the battlefield and consistently drop 70-90 points with sharpshooter and sneak attack.

  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    edited January 17
    It sounds like the battlefield doesn't have enough mobs designed to punish glass cannons that are all mobility and no defense.

    [edit] And now I'm wondering what kind of Fighters I've been playing with, because they consistently topped damage charts, while also being unkillable juggernauts at the same time. All I remember is that they could solve every problem with superiority dice.

    Glal on
    SchadenfreudeSmrtnikwebguy20override367Tynnan
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Gotta admit I'm not really up to date on the cheese but 70-90 from sneak attack seems pretty high since those dice max at 60 points of damage. Did this edition print a stupid "+1 damage a level to sneak attack" feat?

    Schadenfreude
  • SchadenfreudeSchadenfreude Mean Mister Mustard Registered User regular
    What kind of crazy build or gear does this rogue have to be consistently doing 70-90 damage outside of constantly critical hitting?

    Sharpshooter gives you +10, say +5 for dex. A +3 Longbow caps out at 11 damage. That's 26 damage total, leaving 44-64 for sneak attack, which caps at 10d6 at level 19. Either someone's lying about their rolls or they have loaded dice to be hitting those numbers regularly; every dice would need to be nearly maxed out.

    Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe
  • ArcanisTheImpotentArcanisTheImpotent Registered User regular
    assassinate is a thing

    magic weapons with bonus damage dice are a thing

    rogues multi classed with rangers and paladins are definitely a thing

    my rogue/ranger once did nearly 200 damage to a dragon in one round thanks to a critical hit and some layered abilities + magic weapons

  • SchadenfreudeSchadenfreude Mean Mister Mustard Registered User regular
    They sure are but to consistently be doing 70-90 damage and outclassing a fighter in damage (whilst dancing around the battlefield - so assassinate is over and done with at this stage) you'd want some amount of bonus damage dice and a fighter who got gimped by the magic item fairy.

    Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    assassinate is a thing

    magic weapons with bonus damage dice are a thing

    rogues multi classed with rangers and paladins are definitely a thing

    my rogue/ranger once did nearly 200 damage to a dragon in one round thanks to a critical hit and some layered abilities + magic weapons

    So all but the first are irrelevant, the fighters get access to all the same stuff. With the fighter having more attacks they all should push towards an advantage to them, not the rogue.

    Assassinate is surely a thing but that's a once a combat thing and Steelhawk's comment was talking about watching the rogue dish out 70-90 every round.

    SchadenfreudeSmrtnikoverride367Bullhead
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    edited January 17
    Well... lets not forget hyperbole. Hyperbole is very important too. :razz:

    I may have been using critical hit numbers that were fresh in my mind from the last session to convey a consistent number when that was actually an extraordinary number. The arcane trickster rogue in my ToA at 10th level has a Dex of 23 (due to Trickster god shenanigans) and with his gear (+1 shortbow and bracers of archery) and the sharpshooter feat does max damage of 55 on a non-crit sneak attack.

    Steelhawk on
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Sneak attack is a frustrating thing for a DM though. Like, its really easy for a rouge, especially a halfling rogue, to be hidden. At mid levels a bonus action hide with dice rolls pushing past 20 for stealth checks beats almost all baddies passive perceptions. And eating a bad guys action to search? Likely in vain? No thanks. And, again as a halfling, being able to get concealment behind one of your larger companions? Gawddamn. And then once that big giant fighter butt you are hiding behind runs into melee, well, you've got your sneak attacks there anyway.

    Sneak attacks are already too easy to land, imo. Which I think is intended by design so I allow it, if personally annoying. It does make rogues awesome. So whats one more path of getting there?

    Are you my old DM that got frustrated with me after i dropped 55 or so damage on a Beholder on opening round at like level 8 with a crossbow and assassinate, and after that had me run out of crossbow bolts in the Underdark ("yeah there is nobody selling those things down here sorry"). and suggested i try using some other weapon nevermind the feats I have picked up?

    steam_sig.png
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Sneak attack is a frustrating thing for a DM though. Like, its really easy for a rouge, especially a halfling rogue, to be hidden. At mid levels a bonus action hide with dice rolls pushing past 20 for stealth checks beats almost all baddies passive perceptions. And eating a bad guys action to search? Likely in vain? No thanks. And, again as a halfling, being able to get concealment behind one of your larger companions? Gawddamn. And then once that big giant fighter butt you are hiding behind runs into melee, well, you've got your sneak attacks there anyway.

    Sneak attacks are already too easy to land, imo. Which I think is intended by design so I allow it, if personally annoying. It does make rogues awesome. So whats one more path of getting there?

    Are you my old DM that got frustrated with me after i dropped 55 or so damage on a Beholder on opening round at like level 8 with a crossbow and assassinate, and after that had me run out of crossbow bolts in the Underdark ("yeah there is nobody selling those things down here sorry"). and suggested i try using some other weapon nevermind the feats I have picked up?

    Not at all! I honestly would not go out of my way to invalidate one of my players choices like that. And I completely understand that Sneak Attack damage is being used as intended.

    But I can see where he's coming from. :)

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    If you have a good Striker in the party, throw more low-level mooks into the mix so there's more of a focus on controlling the battlefield rather than working out ways to nerf the Striker

    The 4th Edition DMG was shit hot with balance advice like this, which seems obvious in retrospect

    SmrtnikArcanisTheImpotentoverride367NipsToxMoridin889
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    I run storm king's thunder in exandria, the players have been managing a town that has proven to be an effective money sink, in addition to spending a lot of money on research expeditions to attempt to find promising dig sites that might have age of arcanum relics

    They also run an acquisitions incorporated franchise which so far hasn't earned them any money because they keep not doing the thing that is the title of the company they signed on with (I mean they're incorporated, but they sure as hell keep failing to acquire the thing they're asked to)

    @override367 Did you have a tracker for the Acquisitions Inc franchise? I am planning on running a campaign using those mechanics and I've been looking for something like the Settlement management spreadsheet you shared, but haven't found something yet. I figured I'd ask before I went and built something myself.

    Also, I noticed that there was an error in the Buildable Rooms tab for Animal Pens. The correct text is as follows:
    This room allows creatures to be held securely and safely, whether or not they desire to be, until you choose to release them. The creatures held here may be of any type other than humanoid. This room may hold five creatures sized small, three sized medium, or one sized large. If built using two room points, this capacity is doubled, and the pens may also instead house one huge creature. This room does not automatically include creatures, which must be acquired through other means. You may buy and construct this room multiple times.

  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    edited January 17
    If you have a good Striker in the party, throw more low-level mooks into the mix so there's more of a focus on controlling the battlefield rather than working out ways to nerf the Striker

    The 4th Edition DMG was shit hot with balance advice like this, which seems obvious in retrospect

    Personally, I'm not looking to nerf the strikers at all. If it sounded that way, I presented it wrong and that's on me. As I said a few posts earlier, frustrated was the wrong word.

    I'm not looking to nerf a player, I just need to adjust my own expectation so as to not be constantly surprised whenever my rogue player tells me what he rolls for damage.

    Steelhawk on
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Sorry, Steelhawk, that was intended more as a comment to Smrtnik's experience

  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    My observation with 5E and 3.X games, is that increasing the number of opponents is almost always the best way of providing challenge. At low levels, if a fighter type manages to land all their hits, they stand a pretty good chance of 1 or 2 rounding their level appropriate opponent. This can change a bit as they level up, but unless you want to put the opponents in padded sumo suits (which may be appropriate for some boss fights), the intention of those types of characters is generally their ability to just delete single targets rapidly. Its why I was soon keen to find a resource like the DPR probability spreadsheet I linked earlier since it helps me calibrate what range or outcomes I can expect from a given combat encounter.

    Something I'll probably add at some point is a "time to live" calculator and see if I can come up with some statistics about how many rounds a PC is expected to take to defeat an enemy at different level ranges or for a specific combat. It's another point to help calibrate the importance of loot and +X weapons/+X armor to offenses and defenses. RPGs are giant statistics simulators, and I know from my professional career that most people do not have a good gut feeling for probabilities, which means we all need some help for calibrating challenges.

  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited January 17
    Caedwyr wrote: »
    My observation with 5E and 3.X games, is that increasing the number of opponents is almost always the best way of providing challenge. At low levels, if a fighter type manages to land all their hits, they stand a pretty good chance of 1 or 2 rounding their level appropriate opponent. This can change a bit as they level up, but unless you want to put the opponents in padded sumo suits (which may be appropriate for some boss fights), the intention of those types of characters is generally their ability to just delete single targets rapidly. Its why I was soon keen to find a resource like the DPR probability spreadsheet I linked earlier since it helps me calibrate what range or outcomes I can expect from a given combat encounter.

    Something I'll probably add at some point is a "time to live" calculator and see if I can come up with some statistics about how many rounds a PC is expected to take to defeat an enemy at different level ranges or for a specific combat. It's another point to help calibrate the importance of loot and +X weapons/+X armor to offenses and defenses. RPGs are giant statistics simulators, and I know from my professional career that most people do not have a good gut feeling for probabilities, which means we all need some help for calibrating challenges.

    Are you familiar with Kobold Fight Club? https://kobold.club/fight/#/encounter-builder It appears to be doing a lot of the stuff you're thinking about.

    Aldo on
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    I'd seen it during my perusals for understanding the statistical underpinnings of the system, but I'd forgotten about it. Now that I'm putting things more into practice, it looks like a useful encounter builder based on the XP budget approach. The tie-in with the Improved Initiative tracker website also looks cool and I'll have to try it out.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    If you have a good Striker in the party, throw more low-level mooks into the mix so there's more of a focus on controlling the battlefield rather than working out ways to nerf the Striker

    The 4th Edition DMG was shit hot with balance advice like this, which seems obvious in retrospect

    Personally, I'm not looking to nerf the strikers at all. If it sounded that way, I presented it wrong and that's on me. As I said a few posts earlier, frustrated was the wrong word.

    I'm not looking to nerf a player, I just need to adjust my own expectation so as to not be constantly surprised whenever my rogue player tells me what he rolls for damage.

    So yeah, remember that Ambush rogues get an awesome first round and then start to peter out. Where the fighter will be more energizer bunny and just keep putting out that "respectable but not awesome" damage every round. Of course, the issue here is that every fight has a first round but not every fight has a fifth round. Rogues front load the awesome while fighters require the grind to get their spotlight moment.

  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    DC Comics is putting out a D&D 5E compatible setting book.
    DC Comics is publishing a Dungeons & Dragons compatible sourcebook set in the world of its new fantasy series The Last God. The Last God: Tales from The Book of Ages is a 40-page sourcebook that will be published in April and will detail the "the rich history of the people, locations, schools of magic and creatures found throughout Cain Anuun," the setting of The Last God. Written by Phillip Kennedy Johnson with art by series artist Riccardo Federici and cover artist Kai Carpenter, the book will also contain Dungeons & Dragons 5E compatible playable races, subclasses, magic items, monsters and more designed by Nerd Poker DM Dan Telfer, and maps by cartographer Jared Blando.

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    ZonugalBrainleechFryIvelliusArcanisTheImpotent
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    That's my point though. The halfling arcane trickster in my party isn't doing assassin level damage on the first round, no. But he is still doing big numbers almost every round anyway. Not really petering out at all over 5 rounds.

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Honestly it's when I fuck up and accidentally remove the rogues ability to do regular sneak attack that I get annoyed cause I'm usually making the assumption that they're gonna be dumping out that much damage almost every round, and if I take that away without meaning to I totally open myself up to the possibility of an accidental TPK.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    Caedwyr wrote: »
    I run storm king's thunder in exandria, the players have been managing a town that has proven to be an effective money sink, in addition to spending a lot of money on research expeditions to attempt to find promising dig sites that might have age of arcanum relics

    They also run an acquisitions incorporated franchise which so far hasn't earned them any money because they keep not doing the thing that is the title of the company they signed on with (I mean they're incorporated, but they sure as hell keep failing to acquire the thing they're asked to)

    @override367 Did you have a tracker for the Acquisitions Inc franchise? I am planning on running a campaign using those mechanics and I've been looking for something like the Settlement management spreadsheet you shared, but haven't found something yet. I figured I'd ask before I went and built something myself.

    Also, I noticed that there was an error in the Buildable Rooms tab for Animal Pens. The correct text is as follows:
    This room allows creatures to be held securely and safely, whether or not they desire to be, until you choose to release them. The creatures held here may be of any type other than humanoid. This room may hold five creatures sized small, three sized medium, or one sized large. If built using two room points, this capacity is doubled, and the pens may also instead house one huge creature. This room does not automatically include creatures, which must be acquired through other means. You may buy and construct this room multiple times.

    I use onenote to manage everything, and worldanvil (which is where that map I link is stored)

    ArcanisTheImpotent
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    Rogues do really good consistent, long term damage. When everyone else is out of tricks, the rogue is still trucking along

    The math just isn't there for them being the highest damage class though, unless you're on your 3rd combat without a short rest. There's no way to torture the numbers into favoring the rogue unless they are built optimally and nobody else is.

    Fighters just do.... so. much. damage.

    Shit I was playing a level 19 bladelock with a +3 great weapon and 22 cha and was churning out I think 2d6+25 each swing without using any special abilities, but add onto that Shadow of Moil and making both attacks have advantage? WITH a 19-20 crit range? and if I crit the enemy, heaven help the poor sod because that's an extra 12d8 (!) smite damage. WITH hexblade's curse adding more? Our rogue was not keeping up, but it was fine, because the rogue was also never taking any damage, whoop-whooping away at the first sign of danger and uncannyevadereliably avoiding spell after attack after grapple's debilitating effects

    edit: keep in mind for assassins, if the enemies are alert, there's no real way for them to get an assassinate, they only get advantage if they go first, they need surprise to get a crit

    override367 on
    Glal
  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    also you decide when someone gets to hide. a goliath claiming that a mushroom is enough defilade can go pants vecna.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
    MrVyngaard
  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    Action report: great success!
    Murder cultists burst through the relative safety of the local inn as their brethren rampaged along the neighborhood, kidnapping children for their "dress-rehearsal".
    After a chase scene that went roughly without a hitch (if personally I thought it was kinda lackluster) they cornered one of the baddies attempting to open their exit hatch, which was inadvertently closed by the others.
    Some bruising and interrogation later they got the bad guy to offer them the location of MurderHQ as their guide (since they won't stand a chance against the numbers there) as well as the number of hostages (a lot, decreasing as they keep "practicing"), then skirmished (and escaped) fungus zombies along the way and got a vantage view of an ampitheatre full of psychos practicing for a play.
    And see three nightmare creatures descend into the hundred-strong murder party and just, like, one-shot everyone. So I think by their actions (strongly consider running away, but stick out in case the nightmares leave), that their survival instincts are now properly calibrated for later purposes.
    They enter the building adjacent to the Carnage, fight a few cultists, Bluff as their leader (via a timely disguise and Deception success check by the Bard), get to the hostages without further encounters, and run like hell instead of fighting the boss ogre I was planning for them to fight. (Their original mission was to rescue the hostages, so they beelined for it, bypassing the treasure room and boss room)
    I made a mistake having them roll for the way back, since their highest Survival guy FAILED. So I had to improvise a mushroom colony, and a suspicious druid they had to convince that they're friendly. Said druid offered them to guide them up to the surface for a small fee, but a FAIL caused the fee to go up, and an overheard remark caused it to double some more. So now they not only don't have money, but they owe someone money. I had to make one of the NPC hostages (a magic mediator) negotiate the fee back to something manageable.
    Arriving safely back home, one of the players (the Folk Hero Barbarian) had the brilliant idea of offering a speech to his community in an attempt to raise money, which he got a Nat20. (I know crits don't mean anything in skill checks, bit hush). So he managed to raise enough money to pay off the fee AND have enough money left to distribute to the others as some form of reward (since they got chump change in the dungeon).
    The fun thing about all of this is the Bard is a Dimir Spy, and we roleplayed her secret mission (find a missing Magic Lawyer) without the others catching on, secret call code, secret note and everything. She now has a list of names that means there's a Civil War going on within the Dimir.

    I really enjoyed after the fact that I don't think they knew how much of an asspull the last segment was, and how much I worried about the lack of reward they got and the Folk Hero thinking of his own way to solve a problem I floated to them, but also getting a reward for the others.

    But being a DM, I can't answer any of the fun post-game speculation and questions they have. It's a bit of a lonely side effect. But all in all, as Matt Colville would say, if they had fun, then I had fun.

    override367NipsElvenshaeArcanisTheImpotentToxXagar
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    evilthecat wrote: »
    also you decide when someone gets to hide. a goliath claiming that a mushroom is enough defilade can go pants vecna.

    stealth fails if the enemy can see you. A halfling can hide behind a goliath, but the enemy can just... walk around to the other side and see them

    although rogues really are supposed to almost always get their sneak attack off

    override367 on
    Steelhawk
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    evilthecat wrote: »
    also you decide when someone gets to hide. a goliath claiming that a mushroom is enough defilade can go pants vecna.

    stealth fails if the enemy can see you. A halfling can hide behind a goliath, but the enemy can just... walk around to the other side and see them

    although rogues really are supposed to almost always get their sneak attack off

    Yes, but typically with cunning action the halfling has already gotten off his sneak attack by the time the enemy walks around to the other side.

    And the next turn, hes going to go off and do it again.

    Steelhawk on
  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    Is the idea that the Rogue goes behind the Goliath, hides with their bonus action, then does a ranged attack through the Goliath (as allies do not block friendly shots) at their target? Though, that plan goes out the window if you actually get in melee range of them, since they can only use their bonus action to either Disengage or Hide, not both.

  • FryFry Registered User regular
    I can't remember: in this edition, if you shoot through your ally's space, doesn't that grant cover to the target?

  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    My group's monk was doing crazy damage consistently, right up until he was cut in half by a purple worm.

    The player rolled up a rogue that multiclassed into ranger and.....just went right back to doing crazy damage consistently.

    I ended up giving the other players some serious buffs to catch them up a bit and just ramped up the enemies they were facing and made the fights less dependent on strictly grinding down hp values.

  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    edited January 18
    Oh, I might be wrong.
    A target with half cover has a +2 bonus to AC and Dexterity saving throws. A target has half cover if an obstacle blocks at least half of its body. The obstacle might be a low wall, a large piece of furniture, a narrow tree trunk, or a creature, whether that creature is an enemy or a friend (BD&D p74).

    Glal on
    Aldooverride367
  • webguy20webguy20 I Spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    I would give an ally the ability to use a reaction to get out of the way of another allies shot if they wanted to negate the cover they gave an enemy.

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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Glal wrote: »
    Is the idea that the Rogue goes behind the Goliath, hides with their bonus action, then does a ranged attack through the Goliath (as allies do not block friendly shots) at their target? Though, that plan goes out the window if you actually get in melee range of them, since they can only use their bonus action to either Disengage or Hide, not both.

    Once the melee type moves into combat though, a ranged rogue can relocate to another position easily enough.

    A melee rogue can follow the goliath in anyway and as long as the halfling is a size category smaller than his ally, he can hide behind them anyway and lash out on his turn again.

  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    If they're following an ally around then hiding is irrelevant, they can get Sneak Attack just from having that ally next to the enemy.

    SteelhawkSmrtnikoverride367Moridin889
  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    Glal wrote: »
    If they're following an ally around then hiding is irrelevant, they can get Sneak Attack just from having that ally next to the enemy.

    I think the point here is that the halfling is hiding behind the goliath and firing at someone that isn't in the melee ball.
    I dunno, it feels cheap, on the other hand I'd just have an enemy walk up to the archer in melee and say hi.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
    Steelhawk
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