[DnD 5E] You're rollin' dice with your pals the other day...

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  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    Glal wrote: »
    If recovered memory therapy is enough to convince people their parents abused them and were in a cult (to the point where even after it'd been discredited those families are still not communicating) I don't think it's a stretch to assume that people's brains will convince themselves of whatever is asked, just to make the pain stop.

    There are five lights, etc, from the documentary, Star Trek: The Next Generation.

    these aren't equal things.
    recovered memory therapy amounts to voluntary brain washing.

    And picard didn't state that there were 5 lights.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    I think that 89% of players torturing in RPG's is indulging in dark acts in a "safe" environment, rather than actually gathering information IC.

    Fake edit: That's a fake percentage. :)

    Endless_Serpentsoverride367Elvenshae
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    You lied! To me! A forum poster!

    But... even your edit was fake... so, are you lying about that too?

    How deep does this post go @Steelhawk ... if that’s your real username.

    SteelhawkElvenshae
  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    I think that 89% of players torturing in RPG's is indulging in dark acts in a "safe" environment, rather than actually gathering information IC.

    Fake edit: That's a fake percentage. :)

    For my players it seems to be the "well we forgot to make a plan sooo let's torture this guy for something useful!" play!

    evilthecat on
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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    WFRP has torture as a separate skill

    One which I pretended didn't exist and gave players with the skill in their career progression a free choice of alternative

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    If I had a problem with my players torturing NPCs I'd just tell them ooc we're not doing that, instead of trying to make a point about real world torture by making zone of truth not work, ymmv

    Speaking of once the party assembled they realized that 4 of them tortured a nobleman, so they burned his house down to cover it up

    I reminded them all, after they had finished their crime, that as deputized members of the fantasy fbi, they just had to go report to the local officials what they had done and learned, instead of burning the house down and covering it up

    Oops!

    Later the barbarian accidentally released a demonic succubus in the castle district of the capital.

    Heroes

    override367 on
  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    Have the Zone of Truth ping the players to inform them that torture does not magically extract truthful information from someone who does not know it.

    DarkPrimus on
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  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    If I had a problem with my players torturing NPCs I'd just tell them ooc we're not doing that, instead of trying to make a point about real world torture by making zone of truth not work, ymmv

    Speaking of once the party assembled they realized that 4 of them tortured a nobleman, so they burned his house down to cover it up

    I reminded them all, after they had finished their crime, that as deputized members of the fantasy fbi, they just had to go report to the local officials what they had done and learned, instead of burning the house down and covering it up

    Oops!

    Later the barbarian accidentally released a demonic succubus in the castle district of the capital.

    Heroes

    "yeah we arrived at the perps house but someone had already gotten to him. Everything was burned down!"

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
    FrySleepMoridin889override367
  • webguy20webguy20 I Spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Wooo level 5 wizard. Counterspell and Leomund's Tiny hut. The hut should be super useful in Avernus.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    evilthecat wrote: »
    If I had a problem with my players torturing NPCs I'd just tell them ooc we're not doing that, instead of trying to make a point about real world torture by making zone of truth not work, ymmv

    Speaking of once the party assembled they realized that 4 of them tortured a nobleman, so they burned his house down to cover it up

    I reminded them all, after they had finished their crime, that as deputized members of the fantasy fbi, they just had to go report to the local officials what they had done and learned, instead of burning the house down and covering it up

    Oops!

    Later the barbarian accidentally released a demonic succubus in the castle district of the capital.

    Heroes

    "yeah we arrived at the perps house but someone had already gotten to him. Everything was burned down!"

    "So how did you figure out what they were up to, if you couldn't get any information from the burning wreckage?"

    dt3GeqU.png
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  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    Zone of Truth is very explicitly the actual truth, they cannot say a deliberate lie... which them blurting out what they think you want to hear to make it stop would be. The spell actually could make the process relatively painless if the target is in any way cooperative. They know they're being compelled to not lie, and the caster knows if they failed the saving throw or not.

    But they also don't need to say anything, if responding to a question would be a lie. And my favorite thing about the spell is that it affects everyone within range... caster included. So if you have a particularly clever minion, they can slip in questions of their own and if the players don't think about it they could divulge something they shouldn't. I could almost see it being an amazing way for an infiltrator to end up gaining vital information when they know their targets are prone to using the spell.

    But in the end if the party is truly evil, what they do instead is murder the person without the caster present and have the caster use Speak With Dead privately.

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  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    evilthecat wrote: »
    Glal wrote: »
    If recovered memory therapy is enough to convince people their parents abused them and were in a cult (to the point where even after it'd been discredited those families are still not communicating) I don't think it's a stretch to assume that people's brains will convince themselves of whatever is asked, just to make the pain stop.

    There are five lights, etc, from the documentary, Star Trek: The Next Generation.

    these aren't equal things.
    recovered memory therapy amounts to voluntary brain washing.

    And picard didn't state that there were 5 lights.
    I am talking about the ability of human brain to convince itself of stuff that never happened. And you are forgetting the final line of the episode.

    http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/237.htm

    Glal on
    AldoNips
  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    Arthil wrote: »
    Zone of Truth is very explicitly the actual truth, they cannot say a deliberate lie... which them blurting out what they think you want to hear to make it stop would be. The spell actually could make the process relatively painless if the target is in any way cooperative. They know they're being compelled to not lie, and the caster knows if they failed the saving throw or not.

    But they also don't need to say anything, if responding to a question would be a lie. And my favorite thing about the spell is that it affects everyone within range... caster included. So if you have a particularly clever minion, they can slip in questions of their own and if the players don't think about it they could divulge something they shouldn't. I could almost see it being an amazing way for an infiltrator to end up gaining vital information when they know their targets are prone to using the spell.

    But in the end if the party is truly evil, what they do instead is murder the person without the caster present and have the caster use Speak With Dead privately.

    speak with dead is pretty wonky, though.
    You're not guaranteed straight answers.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
    override367
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Have the Zone of Truth ping the players to inform them that torture does not magically extract truthful information from someone who does not know it.

    Well right, if Minion says "I don't know!" in a zone of truth, there's no point in continuing, you're 100% sure they're telling the truth

    at which point the players either turn them over to the authorities or, in my case, typically try and adopt the minion

    seriously the party's town in my SKT game is full of goblins, hobgoblins, a couple of orcs, some Vecna worshippers, a dozen pixies, a red dragon wyrmling, a nixie, a bone devil trapped in the body of a normal woman (that was a fun wild magic surge, she has taken on a career as a banker after evaluating the best way to cause evil while stuck in this meat sack, and runs the bank in the party's town), a nest of harpies who have been tricked into believing an Avariel is a Harpy Queen, 6 weretiger adolescents, and a ghost

    there's also 150 regular people who have a high tolerance for the fuckin weird

    override367 on
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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    In the other 5e game I'm in, I'm playing a fighter. With 20 STR. And high intimidation.

    The upside is the party usually isn't tempted to physically torture anyone because Pashon taking the NPCs weapon and dramatically smashing something with it, then gesturing at the prisoners head is usually enough.

    It's been a problem in other games though in one case I think people were just bored and acting up as that one had eight freaking players.

    Phoenix-D on
  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    Displays of brute strength on the scenery is a lot more fun than torture ever could be, yes.

    My dwarf barbarian (permanently enlarged to the size of an iron golem... but still blatantly a dwarf given width-to-height ratio), simply shrugged hard in a doorway which began to cause a lot of damage to the support there. That was enough.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited February 18
    in curse of strahd the warlock seduced Perrywimple the simpleton in Barovia, and made an agreement with he shop owner to marry him in exchange for partial ownership of his shop and fair prices

    The bard, unimpressed, wanted to fist fight perrywimple, and beat him via Hold Person, in public (111 hitpoints is no match for bad dice, tavern brawler, and hold person)

    The warlock "Spent the night" with her giant man after the fight and joined the party for shenanigans the next day to investigate what caused a zombie plague to sweep this village. The following afternoon they found the shop owner and perrywimple dead, the shop wrecked, the villagers looting it. Villagers interrogated say that Bard is the reason why they finally stood up to the "Tyrants" by showing that Perrywimple was a mortal after all

    Warlock is livid at bard, and quickly takes to setting the peasants straight that this shop belongs to her now, and to cease looting. She ends up with a shop in need of repairs missing most of the food and valuables and all the money, but hires some impoverished peasants to do some repairs for her and run the place. At fair prices.

    party's new friend Vasili Van Holtz is aghast at the violence of these people! He assures Ireena (the bard came back in Ireena's body, because warlock's patron is a rival dark power who wants to fuck with everyone) that Lord Strahd didn't intend for things to get this disorderly, that he would speak to his lord upon his return to Ravenloft, once he collects Strahd's taxes...

    They like Vasili, he's a bit of a klutz, but he opens doors for them and has a lot of great ideas. If only he could help them with Bard's problem... she had a dream, a profoundly pleasant dream I won't get into here, but she awoke with a bite mark on her neck and her head swimming, well fuck

    Rogue went by himself to go meet with a local landed noble (I have changed the landscape of barovia... a fair bit), with his new friend Vasili getting him past the gate. The people in the estate better fed than the villagers for sure, and when he met the noblewoman running the place, she's gotta be the youngest lady of a house he's ever met. 17? 18 years old? Very pale skin, but a pleasant demeanor. They had a chat about the state of Barovia, and the noble insisting that if the villagers paid their lord proper homage, their troubles would quickly come to an end. She gives Ravenloft its due, and her fortunes are just fine, why at one point Lord Strahd was even quite taken with her...

    Rogue: "May I have some wine? The local tavern was out when we got here"
    Noble: "Certainly, *she gestures for a servant to go get him some"
    Rogue: "What about what you're drinking? The bottle appears quite full"
    Noble: "Oh it's a private vintage"
    Rogue: "You make it here? How"
    Noble: *laughing* "Oh what a delight, why don't I show you"
    Rogue: "That sounds splendid"

    And I ended the session there as Rogue failed a Wisdom Saving Throw

    Every attempt they make at building something in Domain of Dread barovia is going to turn to ash, it's a blast how much fun everyone is having playing misery porn sim. They keep telling me, oh no the darker the better, so I keep pushing.

    override367 on
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  • KhildithKhildith Registered User regular
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Wooo level 5 wizard. Counterspell and Leomund's Tiny hut. The hut should be super useful in Avernus.

    I'm very glad that in my current Avernus party none of my characters will be getting Tiny Hut! I found it as a DM to be sorta uninteresting and limiting. After you have the session where they hide in it while a snowstorm rages outside with a monster howling just out of sight and the session where it gets dispelled there isn't a ton of new things you can do in the resting scenario anymore!

    It is neat that it can be a utility spell for sealing doorways or resisting the effects of harsh weather/temperature but maybe my SKT party used it as their go to a few too many times and its soured me on it.

    The spell totally has a place in the game and I wouldn't dream of banning it outright, but I am a bit happy to see it not on anyone's spell lists this campaign.

  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    Downtime for the party's artificer:
    So I kind of want to do something a bit more engaged with the Research activity. In six week's time there will be an Open House in her magitek guild that showcases prototypes to rich folk who want to invest in further development.

    Last week, she has a small shared lab, no apprentices, and no secret notes. This week, she has a lab of her own, four apprentices, and a bunch of encrypted notes she can make use of.

    I want to set up this Research mini-game:

    - She has three activities she can do for the week: Decipher the Secret Notes, Perform her Research, Build her Prototype.
    - each task has a defined number of Research Points needed for her to complete the task. But for now, she only needs to complete the Research and the Prototype.
    - Each involves an Int (Research) roll at the end of the week. She can focus on one activity for the week to add her Prof Bonus, and she gets a +1 to her roll for every apprentice she assigns to a task, but the Decipher can only get one apprentice (only one dude knows Draconic). Her lab conditions will also add to her roll.
    - Depending on the Research Roll per task, she will earn zero, two, four, or seven RPs for that task for that week.
    - the Deciphering track has several milestones - reaching some gives her an upgrade to her Arcane Focus, while others gives her a passive bonus to RP gained for related stuff.

    Completing her Research and Prototype will give her a huge boost to her rolls for the upcoming Open House.

    NipsRhesus Positive
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Khildith wrote: »
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Wooo level 5 wizard. Counterspell and Leomund's Tiny hut. The hut should be super useful in Avernus.

    I'm very glad that in my current Avernus party none of my characters will be getting Tiny Hut! I found it as a DM to be sorta uninteresting and limiting. After you have the session where they hide in it while a snowstorm rages outside with a monster howling just out of sight and the session where it gets dispelled there isn't a ton of new things you can do in the resting scenario anymore!

    It is neat that it can be a utility spell for sealing doorways or resisting the effects of harsh weather/temperature but maybe my SKT party used it as their go to a few too many times and its soured me on it.

    The spell totally has a place in the game and I wouldn't dream of banning it outright, but I am a bit happy to see it not on anyone's spell lists this campaign.

    I had my ToA party wake up one morning in a Tiny Hut after they rested somewhere inappropriate. Only to be surrounded by Tomb Guardians in the morning. A lot of them. Looming over the Hut menacingly. Mind you, this was after they had made a deal with Withers to allow him to scry on them as they went through his various trap rooms and promised to provide first hand feedback. So instead of dogpiling the party, the Guardians held up a sign that said. "SLEEP IS BORING. MAKE PROGRESS OR ELSE..." then they all turned and walked single file out of the room.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited February 18
    That's wonderful, I had the guardians detach the floor the hut was planted on and pick up the entire section of dungeon and take it outside the dungeon and leave it there

    There was a brief argument about "immobile", and I ruled that it was immobile relative to the surface it was on. They put up a fuss but I simply dragged my notes from the session where they first went to Chult via boat, almost 2 years ago

    Homebrew Rules Ruling: Players use tiny hut on boat, rule that tiny hut is immobile relative to surface it was cast on

    they don't have anything to say at that point except to be amused that Acererak made them start the dungeon over (while they were being carried out there was a bit of debate about whether they could even be taken outside if there was enough room but I asked if they'd prefer the guardians turn the thing sideways and just dump them all out of the hut). Specifically, I had the ceiling kind of open up into a minecraft staircase, reinforcing that Acererak could just kill them all by having the place collapse in on them or whatever if he really wanted to, but fucking with them was half the fun

    override367 on
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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    One time when my party used tiny hut in a desert, amongst a dune sea in a sandstorm, I buried the thing under a sand dune. That was a nice time waster at the beginning of a session so I could build some encounters while they figured out a way from under the dune.

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  • webguy20webguy20 I Spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Yea i think there can be a lot of fun repercussions. A very Jurassic park “you were so preoccupied with whether or not you could, you never stopped to think if you should” scenario.

    I mainly took it because my wizard has the noble background and anything to make himself more comfortable he would jump on immediately. He already uses prestidigitation on his food to make it better.

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  • Ken OKen O Registered User regular
    The danger is inside the Tiny Hut in my group, my bard likes to spoon.

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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Ken O wrote: »
    The danger is inside the Tiny Hut in my group, my bard likes to spoon.

    Truly monstrous.

    Imagine trying to copy a spell into your book with this in the background for 8 hours straight...

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
    Ken OSleepArthilTynnan
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    I am overcome with madness and kind of want to make the village from my D&D game in minecraft

    Kadoken
  • KhildithKhildith Registered User regular
    I feel like you guys may be underestimating the power of the Tiny Hut! Unless you throw something that can dispel the tiny hut at the party they're ridiculously effective as a fortified position, you can fire arrows/attack and see out of it but enemies can't penetrate or see into it. Spells cant cross the barrier but the characters can so its not too hard to poke your hand out and throw a fireball and such.

    Its a neat spell but like I said it limits the options for environmental hazards and paranoia the DM can do, for most anyone who can use it the spell only costs ~10 minutes of time to set up, no resource cost and it provides infinite oxygen, perfect livable temperatures, full cover to you that doesn't extend to your enemies, and is very powerful for its cost/level!

    I'm not advocating for a ban or anything, but there is a nice freedom from not having to worry about it. My players are actively worried about being caught out in harsh weather or wild beasties wandering by in the dark, which can be fun scenarios!

  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    Of course, the thing you really need to be worried about is what Leomund, The Formless Maw, is taking from you each time you enter one of his huts.

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  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    Alternative: Leomund is sick of strangers always using his tiny huts, so he's traveling around stealing the spellcasting abilities of every mage who knows the spell, like Mordo in the MCU.

    The bill always comes due.

    Ivellius
  • HellboreHellbore A bad, bad man Registered User regular
    depending on your reading, Tiny Hut also doesn't have a floor, so enemies that burrow remain a threat, as do enemies that can just wait until the Hut is dispelled

  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    edited February 20
    New merchant idea: A store that sells linens, soaps, perfumes, candles, and thieves' tools.

    That's right, it's "Bed, Bath & Abscond".

    EDIT: I feel like there should be a dedicated subreddit for questions that fit the format, "I'm a GM looking to introduce an item/service for sale in my campaign that does <thing>. What is an appropriate price in currency, service, and/or time invested for a player who wishes to buy said item/service?"

    WACriminal on
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  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    WACriminal wrote: »
    New merchant idea: A store that sells linens, soaps, perfumes, candles, and thieves' tools.

    That's right, it's "Bed, Bath & Abscond".

    EDIT: I feel like there should be a dedicated subreddit for questions that fit the format, "I'm a GM looking to introduce an item/service for sale in my campaign that does <thing>. What is an appropriate price in currency, service, and/or time invested for a player who wishes to buy said item/service?"

    /R/Dndnext or behindthedmscreen, as a weekly thread, probably?

    WearingglassesWACriminalElvenshae
  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    There's also /r/dmacademy

    WACriminalElvenshae
  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    Those could work, but I was picturing something more like /r/theydidthemath, but specifically for D&D price quotes. I guess I'm surprised it doesn't exist, somehow, lol.

  • GlalGlal Registered User regular
    edited February 20
    WACriminal wrote: »
    New merchant idea: A store that sells linens, soaps, perfumes, candles, and thieves' tools.

    That's right, it's "Bed, Bath & Abscond".
    These are spoilers for my D&D bard, so Kay, if you're reading this, don't.
    My Aarakocra bard had way too much gold left over and nothing to spend it on, so he formed a partnership with the owner of the local music hall and bought a plot of land just outside of the town the adventurer's guild is in; it's expanding rapidly, so he figured buying it outside would make it cheap and the town would grow into and around it.

    The idea was to build a bath house, the front staffed by Aarakocra (in this setting they're all more or less from the same string of islands and pretty rare around these parts) and themed after their culture, or at least a tourist's version of it.

    It was going to be called "Bird Bath & Beyond".

    Glal on
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  • Ken OKen O Registered User regular
    Last night I cast Irresistible Dance on an Ancient Green Dragon. It was wonderful.

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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Man... you guys are dancing with dragons and taking baths and buying towels and shit....

    And here I am trying to logically figure out how Dire Wolves would be narratively paired up with a pair of assassins trying to scoop a bounty from my party. I mean, I realize the short answer is: Who cares? But, apparently, I do!

  • Ken OKen O Registered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Man... you guys are dancing with dragons and taking baths and buying towels and shit....

    And here I am trying to logically figure out how Dire Wolves would be narratively paired up with a pair of assassins trying to scoop a bounty from my party. I mean, I realize the short answer is: Who cares? But, apparently, I do!

    The assassins are from an order that uses stealing Dire Wolf pups from their dens as a test of stealth. Afterwards the recruit normally raises the pup and forms a partnership bond as the wolf sees the assassin as its Alpha.

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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Ken O wrote: »
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Man... you guys are dancing with dragons and taking baths and buying towels and shit....

    And here I am trying to logically figure out how Dire Wolves would be narratively paired up with a pair of assassins trying to scoop a bounty from my party. I mean, I realize the short answer is: Who cares? But, apparently, I do!

    The assassins are from an order that uses stealing Dire Wolf pups from their dens as a test of stealth. Afterwards the recruit normally raises the pup and forms a partnership bond as the wolf sees the assassin as its Alpha.

    That actually works very well. I was overthinking it. Thanks!

    Ken OSleepKadokenToxElvenshaeoverride367Moridin889Aldo
  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    So I stumbled onto a shop selling cheapass Chinese knockoffs of Lego minifigs (and, being in a third world country, they're pretty easy to stumble onto), and I figured, is it possible to get figures close to my PCs?

    (The Boros Bard, the Cleric, and the Vedalken Izzet Artificer)
    x1jviqlvcpe3.jpg

    If they try not to squint and notice that those are switched around MCU minifig body parts, they're kinda close enough. Of course, I'll be going legit and find a Minotaur head and proper mustachio'd heads for the other PCs.

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