Super Smash Bros. Ultimate: Edelgard’s Wife joins the battle.

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  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Because it’s no easier to land or harder to block than any other move

    I mean, it is easier to land in that the Geyser's hitbox is amazing, so it rather increases Terry's threatened area by a ton, it feels like.

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  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Terry’s super specials aren’t one-hitters, and he needs to be at kill% to have access to them. Final Smash meters ler you build it up by doing well, and can earn you a kill at 0% with the right character. Terry has a comeback mechanic, but landing another solid hit on him will take his stock and his super specials away.

    Compare to Little Mac. He can get his KO punch faster and with more of a safety-net of health than Terry, and it’s fast, invincible, and considerably stronger than Power Geyser. But his balancing factor is that he gets just one shot and it can be made to go away. Or Joker, who can get to Arsene really fast, and gets a bonus to dang near everything, but at the cost of sometimes needing that to close out a stock.

    On the subject of Terry’s properties; didn’t they showcase that he’s slower than Ryu on some of his moves? He also has properties that are just different; ryu has 3 modes to his projectile and can launch it far in the air, and the invincible Shoryuken can be done faster than the invincible Rising Tackle, making it more of an agressive option than a shield option. I’m certain that the counterplay with and to Terry will shake out in the coming days; he’s still really new.

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx El Hopaness Rom Tic Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    Enlong wrote: »
    Terry’s super specials aren’t one-hitters, and he needs to be at kill% to have access to them. Final Smash meters ler you build it up by doing well, and can earn you a kill at 0% with the right character. Terry has a comeback mechanic, but landing another solid hit on him will take his stock and his super specials away.

    Compare to Little Mac. He can get his KO punch faster and with more of a safety-net of health than Terry, and it’s fast, invincible, and considerably stronger than Power Geyser. But his balancing factor is that he gets just one shot and it can be made to go away. Or Joker, who can get to Arsene really fast, and gets a bonus to dang near everything, but at the cost of sometimes needing that to close out a stock.

    On the subject of Terry’s properties; didn’t they showcase that he’s slower than Ryu on some of his moves? He also has properties that are just different; ryu has 3 modes to his projectile and can launch it far in the air, and the invincible Shoryuken can be done faster than the invincible Rising Tackle, making it more of an agressive option than a shield option. I’m certain that the counterplay with and to Terry will shake out in the coming days; he’s still really new.

    He's barely slower. And Shoryuken is only a viable move in-combo unless you get lucky with a bad opponent so the invincible frames kinda really don't matter that much unless you're doing tourney play as a pro, and there's only 2 hadoken modes (special arrow you p much don't use because it's just weaker and smaller). Terry is overtuned like shit and it's not really fun playing against him, especially since his normal moves overpower anything but a fully charged down b from Ryu, which is supposed to take at least 1 hit. If he hits you, it goes right through unless you hit stage 3. Maybe 2 for non specials. But he can just cancel Ken/Ryu's counter move.

    With everyone else it's learning, but his capabilities take away half of Ryu's moveset out of the gate. All of Terry's moves take priority over Ryu. (And it should be noted even Dark Pits side B gets cancelled by Terry, which used to be one of the only moves worth using him for)

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx El Hopaness Rom Tic Registered User regular
    Drascin wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    Because it’s no easier to land or harder to block than any other move

    I mean, it is easier to land in that the Geyser's hitbox is amazing, so it rather increases Terry's threatened area by a ton, it feels like.

    It hits the 2nd platform in battlefield from the ground. So yeah, it's pretty amazing.

    Make. Time.
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat but not a real green dress, that's cruel Registered User regular
    Terry's priority hasn't been that good ime. Both playing as and against him I see way more clashes than I do with any other character. And that's before swords enter the picture. Though I imagine Ryu probably has some of the worst priority on the game, with mostly short ranged punches and kicks? Like Wario without the frame data to get under other moves.

    tony danza cuts in line
    jungleroomx
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx El Hopaness Rom Tic Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    Terry's priority hasn't been that good ime. Both playing as and against him I see way more clashes than I do with any other character. And that's before swords enter the picture. Though I imagine Ryu probably has some of the worst priority on the game, with mostly short ranged punches and kicks? Like Wario without the frame data to get under other moves.

    His priority with attacks is really low and difficult yeah, but the down tilts, shoryukens, and side smashes are all pretty decent. Those are the main combo initiators besides down arial, and they feel like they're whiffing more with Terry, like hes a low grav like Ness.

    I wouldn't know about the swords, I play no items no final smash 3 stock lol

    jungleroomx on
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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat but not a real green dress, that's cruel Registered User regular
    Terry's priority hasn't been that good ime. Both playing as and against him I see way more clashes than I do with any other character. And that's before swords enter the picture. Though I imagine Ryu probably has some of the worst priority on the game, with mostly short ranged punches and kicks? Like Wario without the frame data to get under other moves.

    His priority with attacks is really low and difficult yeah, but the down tilts, shoryukens, and side smashes are all pretty decent. Those are the main combo initiators besides down arial, and they feel like they're whiffing more with Terry, like hes a low grav like Ness.

    I wouldn't know about the swords, I play no items no final smash 3 stock lol

    I didn't mean item swords, I mean Lucina :P

    tony danza cuts in line
    jungleroomx
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx El Hopaness Rom Tic Registered User regular
    Terry's priority hasn't been that good ime. Both playing as and against him I see way more clashes than I do with any other character. And that's before swords enter the picture. Though I imagine Ryu probably has some of the worst priority on the game, with mostly short ranged punches and kicks? Like Wario without the frame data to get under other moves.

    His priority with attacks is really low and difficult yeah, but the down tilts, shoryukens, and side smashes are all pretty decent. Those are the main combo initiators besides down arial, and they feel like they're whiffing more with Terry, like hes a low grav like Ness.

    I wouldn't know about the swords, I play no items no final smash 3 stock lol

    I didn't mean item swords, I mean Lucina :P

    Oh the Animes!

    Roy and Lucina are my go to for that character class.

    Make. Time.
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Reminder: “priority” as some kind of latent aspect of moves does not exist. If a move is stuffed out by another, then the move was more damaging, a disjoint, or is in a category that can’t clank (like aerials or transcendents).

    YL9WnCY.png
  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat but not a real green dress, that's cruel Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    Aye, saying priority is just shorthand for the cumulative state of those factors. Chrom has fast, strong, disjointed attacks so he's high prio colloquially even if that's not technically an actual stat in the game

    That's also why I mentioned Ryu having short ranged punches, because that means he has low range and no disjoints, which in smash is effectively low prio

    The Escape Goat on
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    jungleroomx
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx El Hopaness Rom Tic Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    I think all Terry honestly needs is a few moves with recovery (hit him with ZSS paralyzer and hes recovered before the zap animation is done wtf?) and an expiring go meter.

    Edit: Like this match I just had. Whiffed an up smash? NBD with Terry, zero recovery time. I do take some pleasure in my 0SS having far less trouble with him, but he still feels a bit poochied.

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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Now that Terry is out, is it time to start speculation again? I'm honestly surprised that Arthur from the "& Ghosts" series isn't in Smash yet. It seems like an obvious choice, but maybe Sakurai thought he was too basic. He said that we should be surprised from the new characters, and that he would rather make characters that are fun over characters that are popular.

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  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    Weeeeeell... he said the most important thing was that the character be fun to play. That doesn't completely exempt other factors like legal availability and, though I hesitate to use the term because it makes some people switch their brains off, cultural relevance. Fatal Fury and the SNK oeuvre may not be the absolute top of the list when you think of contemporary fighting games, but Terry is a headline character for a headline series for the company he's from in a way that Arthur isn't. That's not to say I'd write Arthur off as a possibility, but historically speaking I feel like he'd wind up as an Assist Trophy.

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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat but not a real green dress, that's cruel Registered User regular
    As I understand it Terry has the cultural cache, just not in NA. KoF is apparently massive in central & south America.

    I have no idea what the "& Ghosts" series is

    tony danza cuts in line
  • PoochPooch Registered User regular
    As I understand it Terry has the cultural cache, just not in NA. KoF is apparently massive in central & south America.

    I have no idea what the "& Ghosts" series is

    Ghosts/Ghouls & Goblins

    I guess you cold do a lot with a spear weapon and armor gimmick, but I could see him working better as an assist trophy.

    KoopahTroopahH3Knuckles
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Used to be the third party characters were expected to be major historical gaming icons. That hasn't been the case since Bayo though. Now anything goes, so there's really no predicting it whatsoever.

  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    I've never been a fan of Pikachu (except for the OG Chubby version) but the Luchador version I had in my party in Omega Ruby really won me over.

    Think I'm going to give PikachuLuchachu a shot in Smash tonight. I don't think I even bothered ever using them in the last game.

    Dr. Chaos on
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    Used to be the third party characters were expected to be major historical gaming icons. That hasn't been the case since Bayo though. Now anything goes, so there's really no predicting it whatsoever.

    Honestly, I'd say they have been.

    Simon/Richter -- there have been an almost unending stream of Castlevania games
    Ken -- Almost as well-known as Ryu, and an easy clone
    Joker -- Shin Megami Tensei is a huge RPG series in Japan
    Hero -- Dragon Quest is banana huge in Japan
    Banjo -- Probably not an icon, but an emblem of Rare's contributions to the N64 days
    Terry -- An emblem of Neo Geo, which was a longtime arcade presence

    That said, we're running out of big, enduring characters/symbols for Smash to feature, especially since we're going to go beyond the fighter's pass. Steve from Minecraft? Doomguy? Something from Mortal Kombat? (Hey, Kano showed up AND ripped out a heart in Wreck-it-Ralph.) Something from Civilization?

    ...now I want Gandi in smash.

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  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Simon/Richter -- there have been an almost unending stream of Castlevania games

    The last new Castlevania game was Lords of Shadow 2, in 2014. And I think since then, we’ve just had collections.

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Simon/Richter -- there have been an almost unending stream of Castlevania games

    The last new Castlevania game was Lords of Shadow 2, in 2014. And I think since then, we’ve just had collections.

    That has less to do with the game's popularity and more to do with modern Konami having zero clue how to do video games.

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx El Hopaness Rom Tic Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    Used to be the third party characters were expected to be major historical gaming icons. That hasn't been the case since Bayo though. Now anything goes, so there's really no predicting it whatsoever.

    Honestly, I'd say they have been.

    Simon/Richter -- there have been an almost unending stream of Castlevania games
    Ken -- Almost as well-known as Ryu, and an easy clone
    Joker -- Shin Megami Tensei is a huge RPG series in Japan
    Hero -- Dragon Quest is banana huge in Japan
    Banjo -- Probably not an icon, but an emblem of Rare's contributions to the N64 days
    Terry -- An emblem of Neo Geo, which was a longtime arcade presence

    That said, we're running out of big, enduring characters/symbols for Smash to feature, especially since we're going to go beyond the fighter's pass. Steve from Minecraft? Doomguy? Something from Mortal Kombat? (Hey, Kano showed up AND ripped out a heart in Wreck-it-Ralph.) Something from Civilization?

    ...now I want Gandi in smash.

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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    I think if he's not willing to redo Mai from KOF, Mortal Kombat characters are probably all out too. It would be really hard to keep the spirit of a Mortal Kombat character without blood splattering everywhere I think. Granted I would love a Sub Zero/Scorpion double pack since they are basically the same model just with different abilities.

    Same goes for Doomguy. He uses guns and a chainsaw to fight demons with lots of blood and gore, it would ruin the E10 rating.

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  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    I think if he's not willing to redo Mai from KOF, Mortal Kombat characters are probably all out too. It would be really hard to keep the spirit of a Mortal Kombat character without blood splattering everywhere I think. Granted I would love a Sub Zero/Scorpion double pack since they are basically the same model just with different abilities.

    Same goes for Doomguy. He uses guns and a chainsaw to fight demons with lots of blood and gore, it would ruin the E10 rating.

    Ever seen Bayonetta’s Torture Attacks?

    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
    CruorKoopahTroopah
  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    I think if he's not willing to redo Mai from KOF, Mortal Kombat characters are probably all out too. It would be really hard to keep the spirit of a Mortal Kombat character without blood splattering everywhere I think. Granted I would love a Sub Zero/Scorpion double pack since they are basically the same model just with different abilities.

    Same goes for Doomguy. He uses guns and a chainsaw to fight demons with lots of blood and gore, it would ruin the E10 rating.

    Ever seen Bayonetta’s Torture Attacks?

    It's been said over and over again that she was toned down for Smash so I guess that means anything can be redone. I was just saying if Sakurai didn't want to do Mai, he probably doesn't want to do another tone down.

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  • CruorCruor Registered User regular
    There was a small interview bit from Sakurai about the Mai decision where he lamented that you could get away with violence (even realistic violence) a LOT easier than you could showing any sort of undergarment/cleavage. He mentioned that they got push-back from the ratings board and had to redo the models for Rosalina and a few other characters in Sm4sh because of the possibility of seeing up their skirts.

    Putting in say, Scorpion/Doom Slayer and just not having their attacks produce blood would be easy and still remain rather faithful to their characters while not moving the ratings needle. The changes necessary to make Mai rating-board approved would be less easy and be very unfaithful to the original design.

    H3Knuckles
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    A Mortal Kombat character with no blood would, in fact, be extremely faithful to Nintendo history as the first Mortal Kombat infamously ported to the SNES without any blood effects.

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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat but not a real green dress, that's cruel Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    ...now I want Gandi in smash.

    Civ Gandhi would absolutely be an assist trophy. He's only got one move!

    tony danza cuts in line
  • RidleySariaRidleySaria AnaheimRegistered User regular
    I would have been fine with Mai having a Smash cameo in a less revealing costume. The fact that there are all those characters in the background without her is just lame.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    I would have been fine with Mai having a Smash cameo in a less revealing costume. The fact that there are all those characters in the background without her is just lame.

    Watch me be proven wrong, but from what I can find her alt costume really isn't better. Like it or not, she's largely defined by exposed cleavage.

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  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    ...now I want Gandi in smash.

    Civ Gandhi would absolutely be an assist trophy. He's only got one move!

    A mushroom cold fills the stage and everyone loses a stock? Seems legit.

    Personally I wouldn’t mind seeing an Overwatch character show up, now that it’s finally on the Switch. Tracer is obviously the literal poster-girl and would make for an interesting moveset, sort of a combination of megaman and zamus but there’s plenty to choose from.

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx El Hopaness Rom Tic Registered User regular
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    ...now I want Gandi in smash.

    Civ Gandhi would absolutely be an assist trophy. He's only got one move!

    A mushroom cold fills the stage and everyone loses a stock? Seems legit.

    Personally I wouldn’t mind seeing an Overwatch character show up, now that it’s finally on the Switch. Tracer is obviously the literal poster-girl and would make for an interesting moveset, sort of a combination of megaman and zamus but there’s plenty to choose from.

    I think D.Va would be better choice tbh.

    A mechanic where she can mount/dismount the MEKA, somewhat like Joker and his persona, and the final smash is just obvious self-destruct, or even she could drop the MEKA for a meteorite move

    Make. Time.
  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    Zek wrote: »
    Used to be the third party characters were expected to be major historical gaming icons. That hasn't been the case since Bayo though. Now anything goes, so there's really no predicting it whatsoever.

    So far this is still sort of the case for 3rd parties. Even newcomers like Joker or the Luminary come from series with a long history.

    rahkeesh2000 on
  • EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    ...now I want Gandi in smash.

    Civ Gandhi would absolutely be an assist trophy. He's only got one move!

    A mushroom cold fills the stage and everyone loses a stock? Seems legit.

    Personally I wouldn’t mind seeing an Overwatch character show up, now that it’s finally on the Switch. Tracer is obviously the literal poster-girl and would make for an interesting moveset, sort of a combination of megaman and zamus but there’s plenty to choose from.

    A few months ago, I’d have said the same. But after the thing with Blizzard banning a Hearthstone player (and firing the people recording him) for making a pro Hong Kong statement after winning, and all the stuff that followed from that, I would rather not give Blizzard my money from here out. Cool as the character may be, an Overwatch character would be a DLC I would not buy

    Enlong on
    YggiDee wrote: »
    Having teenaged RPG leads is really cool until you stop being a teenager yourself. Do you remember being seventeen? You're a dumbass at seventeen! I wanna be saved by the guy who's twenty-seven. He's at least payed taxes. He knows how to do shit. He can drive.
    jungleroomxKreutz
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx El Hopaness Rom Tic Registered User regular
    Oh sh

    Instead of Civ, why not some XCom aliens? Muton?

    Make. Time.
  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Crash Bandicoot

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  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    I'm just sitting here waiting on that Geno reveal.

    The Mallow costume prophecy will be fulfilled.

    Brainiac 8
  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    I would have been fine with Mai having a Smash cameo in a less revealing costume. The fact that there are all those characters in the background without her is just lame.

    Watch me be proven wrong, but from what I can find her alt costume really isn't better. Like it or not, she's largely defined by exposed cleavage.

    Yeah, Mai is hard to make work because her design basically always involved exposed tits and legs. You have covering Bayonetta designs and it's still recognizably Bayonetta, but Mai is kind of pigeonholed.

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  • homogenizedhomogenized Registered User regular
    Drascin wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    I would have been fine with Mai having a Smash cameo in a less revealing costume. The fact that there are all those characters in the background without her is just lame.

    Watch me be proven wrong, but from what I can find her alt costume really isn't better. Like it or not, she's largely defined by exposed cleavage.

    Yeah, Mai is hard to make work because her design basically always involved exposed tits and legs. You have covering Bayonetta designs and it's still recognizably Bayonetta, but Mai is kind of pigeonholed.

    Mai's outfit from her very first appearance is quite tame in comparison to almost everything that came after, but I get the feeling it wouldn't satisfy most people looking for her.

  • agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    This guy is making awesome stage builder trick videos

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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Funny fan art.

    73a2cas60bw6.png

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