If we're posting good 'Jason with the Bat-Family' moments, here's my contribution. With Tim was here instead of doing whatever he was doing at the time which is I think sitting in a jail-cell thanks to Jor-El.
I have no strong opinions about Jason Todd, but he is friends with Bizarro, so I guess that makes him cool in my book.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
I realize this was a decade or so ago(please don't tel me how long it actually was), but the way he was resurrected was also just about the dumbest possible way to do it.
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StraightziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered Userregular
I realize this was a decade or so ago(please don't tel me how long it actually was), but the way he was resurrected was also just about the dumbest possible way to do it.
Which way are you referring to because uhh, well, comics
The actual resurrection, being the Lazarus Pit and Talia bringing him back from madness, is good
DC went OH ITS CAUSE SUPERBOY PRIME THREW A TANTRUM AND PUNCHED REALITY but that's been largely ignored and no one references it
That’s my favorite one though! (Superboy tantrum)
Devlin_Dragonus on
I got nothing for you now. Try again later.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
It's great in a goofy comics are ridiculous way
But everything associated with it at the time (Infinite Crisis, Jason Todd, SB Prime posting on the DC forums, etc) is definitely justification for burning superhero stories to the ground and starting over
SB-Prime I think worked for the most part in Infinite Crisis because his actions honestly are believable. This is a guy with potentially Pre-Crisis Superman's power levels, stuck in a crystal-surrounded pocket dimension with the only person that's closest to his age also going mentally off due to the confinement and seeing how the DC post-Crisis world kept getting (in their eyes) worse and worse. And said person pretty much encouraged him to give in to his anger over it because they needed someone with muscle that wouldn't really sit and think things through. SB-Prime is (as certain reviewers have said) one of Infinite Crisis' tragedies, ultimately becoming worse then the 'ruined' heroes he got fed up with.
Then someone at DC decided to bring him back because they wanted an evil Superman who literally broke the fourth wall.
I enjoyed SBP as a riff on shitty comics fans but with hindsight, it sucks to me
Johns is exactly the type of fan he is mocking to begin with, and it is absolutely not coming from a place of, like, well intentioned self awareness as he is basically the least self-aware writer in existence.
He's the man who made the New 52, the trainwreck that it was and then went "Uh, actually it is Watchmen's fault" and then told a story that proved he understood nothing about Watchmen
Dude sucks and SBP is basically his DCU equivalent
He was also the one I think who not only decided that Grant Morrison's explanation on why Mary Marvel was evil in Final Crisis was stupid and made her evil again in JSA (yet using the look she had in FC) but also had her force Billy into being evil too just so that the Wizard could strip them both of their powers. As a writer, he's had his good moments and his really dumb ones.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
SBP punching the walls of reality was so stupid that between it and Identity Crisis I had to wonder why DC kept using Crisis as an event to look forward to.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
SBP punching the walls of reality was so stupid that between it and Identity Crisis I had to wonder why DC kept using Crisis as an event to look forward to.
Because the first time they did it, back in the 80s, it was cool and different and unprecedented, like "Flash of Two Worlds" (which first established the multiverse). And so it was well-regarded, except for the people unhappy about "losing" all of the pre-Crisis stuff. But most people were willing to give that up for an amazing crossover event and the hope, the promise, that when it was done, everything from that point forward would finally make sense.
But of course, as we soon learned, comics continuity can't be fixed on a "one and done" basis. It's always going to end up generating new problems, requiring more fixes. And every time they mash the reset button and/or go to that well, it gets a little less special and they use up some of their remaining goodwill.
The other problem is that they already did the “Superboy was cloned in part from an evil bastard” plot. Granted, Lex is a much bigger evil bastard, but it was still essentially doing a cut and paste of the same plot.
Jason Todd has some of the flawed heroic anti hero Marvel trappings about his character, which I think are interesting in a new mostly no blood and no actual murder Silver Age that DC flirted with for a while
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited July 2020
jason todd should be bi/pan
Garlic Bread on
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
hey remember when batman and captain america comics were the same story for like a whole fuckin' decade?
people hate jason todd coming back but sure do love bucky
hey remember when batman and captain america comics were the same story for like a whole fuckin' decade?
people hate jason todd coming back but sure do love bucky
Bucky was a good guy forced to be bad through mind control, it's not the same character as a sidekick breaking bad and dying due to poor judgment. Also, Cap doesn't have a no kill rule or any compunction against using firearms. They're... not the same in a lot of ways. (Cap certainly PREFERS not to kill, but would not flinch at killing Red Skull if the opportunity arose, for example.)
I am fairly certain Garlic Bread wasn't saying they are literally the same character
But they're both long-dead sidekicks brought back to life through involved retcons and found themselves in new roles as angsty gun-wielding sad boys with questionable relationships to their heroic mentors and community
There's
A lot of similarities there
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
hey remember when batman and captain america comics were the same story for like a whole fuckin' decade?
people hate jason todd coming back but sure do love bucky
Bucky was a good guy forced to be bad through mind control, it's not the same character as a sidekick breaking bad and dying due to poor judgment. Also, Cap doesn't have a no kill rule or any compunction against using firearms. They're... not the same in a lot of ways. (Cap certainly PREFERS not to kill, but would not flinch at killing Red Skull if the opportunity arose, for example.)
jason isn't batman
his resurrection doesn't negate the point that his death proves batman's way is flawed. i'd say it accentuates it because he's "worse" than before he died and now he's not a martyr; he's living proof that batman isn't perfect
(it's also why i'd say jason wanting to be batman back in Battle for the Cowl makes more sense than bucky becoming captain america. jason thinks he can improve on batman; bucky thinks he can't live up to cap)
as for batman working with the red hood occasionally? he works with cops a lot more and they've killed more people than jason (even ignoring real world politics, they're the gotham pd. jim gordon has shot loads of people on panel)
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
anyway it's cool if you don't care for the character! i get it! i just like to discuss these things because it's fun
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
Posts
He thinks Bruce is an asshole and his methods are naive but he is still his dad
And Dick and Tim are his brothers who he thinks are better than him in their own ways
sorry i'm laughing my ass off at this panel
He wears his emotions on his holsters
He's right about Tim.
If we're posting good 'Jason with the Bat-Family' moments, here's my contribution. With Tim was here instead of doing whatever he was doing at the time which is I think sitting in a jail-cell thanks to Jor-El.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
not that it couldn't be done, but the way to do it is not what lobdell has been doing
I mean, he's the edgy loner and they are the cool kids table.
Which way are you referring to because uhh, well, comics
DC went OH ITS CAUSE SUPERBOY PRIME THREW A TANTRUM AND PUNCHED REALITY but that's been largely ignored and no one references it
That’s my favorite one though! (Superboy tantrum)
But everything associated with it at the time (Infinite Crisis, Jason Todd, SB Prime posting on the DC forums, etc) is definitely justification for burning superhero stories to the ground and starting over
it's Lady in the Water levels of authorial pettiness.
Then someone at DC decided to bring him back because they wanted an evil Superman who literally broke the fourth wall.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
SBP is Geoff Johns' baby
Johns is exactly the type of fan he is mocking to begin with, and it is absolutely not coming from a place of, like, well intentioned self awareness as he is basically the least self-aware writer in existence.
He's the man who made the New 52, the trainwreck that it was and then went "Uh, actually it is Watchmen's fault" and then told a story that proved he understood nothing about Watchmen
Dude sucks and SBP is basically his DCU equivalent
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
Because the first time they did it, back in the 80s, it was cool and different and unprecedented, like "Flash of Two Worlds" (which first established the multiverse). And so it was well-regarded, except for the people unhappy about "losing" all of the pre-Crisis stuff. But most people were willing to give that up for an amazing crossover event and the hope, the promise, that when it was done, everything from that point forward would finally make sense.
But of course, as we soon learned, comics continuity can't be fixed on a "one and done" basis. It's always going to end up generating new problems, requiring more fixes. And every time they mash the reset button and/or go to that well, it gets a little less special and they use up some of their remaining goodwill.
Nobody had to make the New 52 a trainwreck.
It came pre-trainwrecked out the gate.
I took a break from the book but I jumped back into it.
Everyone is very sad that Uncle Sam is missing in action.
Perry White is shaken to his core.
Not sure Perry will have felt much better hearing what Sam was up to during his missing time.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
Then lo and behold once he joined DC and got his hands on Teen Titans...
If you’re not allowed to turn your childhood headcanon into actual canon, then I don’t think there are any Perks to being a DC writer.
people hate jason todd coming back but sure do love bucky
I'm sure that says something about me but I am not gonna unpack that this early in the day
Bucky was a good guy forced to be bad through mind control, it's not the same character as a sidekick breaking bad and dying due to poor judgment. Also, Cap doesn't have a no kill rule or any compunction against using firearms. They're... not the same in a lot of ways. (Cap certainly PREFERS not to kill, but would not flinch at killing Red Skull if the opportunity arose, for example.)
But they're both long-dead sidekicks brought back to life through involved retcons and found themselves in new roles as angsty gun-wielding sad boys with questionable relationships to their heroic mentors and community
There's
A lot of similarities there
jason isn't batman
his resurrection doesn't negate the point that his death proves batman's way is flawed. i'd say it accentuates it because he's "worse" than before he died and now he's not a martyr; he's living proof that batman isn't perfect
(it's also why i'd say jason wanting to be batman back in Battle for the Cowl makes more sense than bucky becoming captain america. jason thinks he can improve on batman; bucky thinks he can't live up to cap)
as for batman working with the red hood occasionally? he works with cops a lot more and they've killed more people than jason (even ignoring real world politics, they're the gotham pd. jim gordon has shot loads of people on panel)
All My Favorite Characters Came Back From The Dead