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  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    All of this said, I actually would enjoy seeing Booster trying to be a 50s sitcom dad, a la "Leave It To Booster." Maybe he travels to different eras to see if he can fit in, only to mess each one up in a comedic way that still teaches him a lesson.

    Rip Hunter, Time Master, is still canonically his son, right?

    So we know he becomes a dad at some point.

  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    Speaking of Harley Quinn merch, did that shirt from BoP get sold anywhere?

    I better not have to say what shirt! Lol

    yeah at hot topic

  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    I'm willing to believe the Harley dating Booster thing is just terrible writer taste.

    it's deadpool+cable

    Matev
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    I'm willing to believe the Harley dating Booster thing is just terrible writer taste. They keep trying to pretend anyone likes Barry Allen as the Flash over Wally. And then threw Wally under a bus in Heroes In Crisis because people refused to like their guy more. It's not like Harley wasn't already bi, that was stated as canon a long ways back.

    (If you like Barry as the Flash more because of Flash TV, okay, but no other version of the character is similar to that version, so I don't know if you like comic Barry more).
    Humphries has said that he was planning on having Ivy be a part of his run but was forbidden by Editorial and so he went with Booster instead

    Like, dude straight up confirmed that they were actively trying to squash the relationship

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  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    edited August 1
    shit i can't believe i'm not gonna get my "Harley Quinn is in a lesbian relationship with Poison Ivy" brand tennis shoes

    You misunderstand. I'm not saying AT&T is going to change how Harley is portrayed on merchandise. I'm saying AT&T might be changing how Harley is portrayed universally, in order to sell her merchandise in certain nations with strict guidelines on what messages they allow to be conveyed to their people.

    It's a pattern we've been seeing in a lot of western popular culture lately.

    where are some examples? i'm aware of lgbtqia+ stuff from the US being censored in some countries but that's not "universal portrayal"

    i'm not aware of companies making lgbtqia+ characters not that and if it's happened like you say i'd really like to know about it

    The Harley Quinn situation reminded me specifically of a controversy from late last year, where gaming company Hasbro, owners of the Magic: The Gathering trading card game, attempted to pass off a prior homosexual relationship held by one of the game's main characters, Chandra Nalaar, as just a phase, even going so far as to have Chandra claim that her type was not only men, but particularly macho men. This inexplicably sudden reversal in the character's portrayal came at the same time Hasbro was planning to expand the Magic: The Gathering property into other media, including a live action movie and an animated series on Netflix, leading many to conclude that the decision was made as a condition for getting this new media released in foreign markets that would disapprove of such a character.

    Hasbro has apologized for the decision and paid lip service to reversing it, but have not published any stories to back up that sentiment as of this post.

    thanks! yeah i can definitely see that, although i can also see them doing it because they're adapting to a new industry and want to remove "roadblocks" or whatever (which doesn't make it any less homophobic, but does remove the racist "it's not us" excuse)

    but also, that is one example. you said it's a pattern we're seeing a lot of. i can give you way more examples of comics/cartoons/tv shows (even narrowing it down to just superhero stuff) that have added queer representation to them
    Even the foreign censorship you describe in your post is done with not only Hollywood's consent, but their cooperation as well. Anonymous studio employees who contributed to the film Bohemian Rhapsody from two years ago revealed that the film had been intentionally constructed in such a way as to make references to Freddie Mercury's bisexuality as easy to edit out of the story as possible. This has become a common practice in modern Hollywood, and studio employees are sworn to secrecy to avoid tarnishing the industry's progressive reputation.

    being able to edit out for other markets does not equal a "universal portrayal" like you said. quite the opposite, in fact

    also, biopics ignoring the queer aspects of its subject(s) is nothing new and has nothing to do with sinophobia or non-US markets

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  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular


    but yeah, it's just that they love china

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  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    Speaking of Harley Quinn merch, did that shirt from BoP get sold anywhere?

    I better not have to say what shirt! Lol

    yeah at hot topic

    Hot Topics still exist? I've been scared to go to malls for like a decade because of all the zombies and kudzu

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    I'm willing to believe the Harley dating Booster thing is just terrible writer taste. They keep trying to pretend anyone likes Barry Allen as the Flash over Wally. And then threw Wally under a bus in Heroes In Crisis because people refused to like their guy more. It's not like Harley wasn't already bi, that was stated as canon a long ways back.

    (If you like Barry as the Flash more because of Flash TV, okay, but no other version of the character is similar to that version, so I don't know if you like comic Barry more).
    Humphries has said that he was planning on having Ivy be a part of his run but was forbidden by Editorial and so he went with Booster instead

    Like, dude straight up confirmed that they were actively trying to squash the relationship

    I never heard about that, yeah that seems pretty definitive.

  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    edited August 1
    I'm 75% of the way through Infinite Crisis.

    You folks remember Sam Raimi's Oz: The Great & Powerful?

    You remember that scene where Theodora, the newly formed Wicked Witch, arrives at the Emerald City and becomes focused hellfire to break through the city's magical bubble shield?

    Superboy-Prime just got out of his cage and its reminding me of that.

    Zonugal on
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  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    Zonugal nobody saw that movie

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  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Zonugal nobody saw that movie

    I saw it in theaters!

    I remember it! I remember it!!!

    oh my god, is this what Superboy-Prime feels like???

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  • Moth 13Moth 13 Volcaregular Registered User regular
    I saw it but I do not remember a single thing about it.

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  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I also saw it in theaters

  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    being able to edit out for other markets does not equal a "universal portrayal" like you said.

    While that's true, the practice is still manipulative and hypocritical. Giving foreign governments permission to edit their films is one thing, but isolating the content they know those governments will want to edit out from the rest of story in order to make it more convenient for them to do so takes it to a whole other level. It turns representation into a cynical ploy they can use to accumulate goodwill domestically without having to actually care about anything.

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  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    edited August 1
    being able to edit out for other markets does not equal a "universal portrayal" like you said.

    While that's true, the practice is still manipulative and hypocritical. Giving foreign governments permission to edit their films is one thing, but isolating the content they know those governments will want to edit out from the rest of story in order to make it more convenient for them to do so takes it to a whole other level. It turns representation into a cynical ploy they can use to accumulate goodwill domestically without having to actually care about anything.

    could be that, could be filmmakers acknowledging their movies will be edited and try to accommodate so that it's not a mess after. could be both!

    but either way, it is not the argument you originally said that characters are having their universal portrayals changed to be less/non queer to please China and foreign markets

    especially when it's hella easy to point at increased representation in media (while not ignoring where it's lacking) that counters your sinophobic post

    Garlic Bread on
  • FearghaillFearghaill If there is nothing but what we make in this world let us make goodRegistered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    I'm 75% of the way through Infinite Crisis.

    You folks remember Sam Raimi's Oz: The Great & Powerful?

    You remember that scene where Theodora, the newly formed Wicked Witch, arrives at the Emerald City and becomes focused hellfire to break through the city's magical bubble shield?

    Superboy-Prime just got out of his cage and its reminding me of that.

    but is he doing just fine?

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  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    I'm 75% of the way through Infinite Crisis.

    You folks remember Sam Raimi's Oz: The Great & Powerful?

    You remember that scene where Theodora, the newly formed Wicked Witch, arrives at the Emerald City and becomes focused hellfire to break through the city's magical bubble shield?

    Superboy-Prime just got out of his cage and its reminding me of that.

    but is he doing just fine?

    Gonna make a safe claim and say, Superboy-Prime has felt better.

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  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    could be that, could be filmmakers acknowledging their movies will be edited and try to accommodate so that it's not a mess after.

    Even if that's true, it still means the filmmakers are valuing the structure and coherence of their plot in foreign markets above representation, a tacit approval of marginalization and partial erasure. Is that really the sort of stance we want to be supporting?

  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    could be that, could be filmmakers acknowledging their movies will be edited and try to accommodate so that it's not a mess after.

    Even if that's true, it still means the filmmakers are valuing the structure and coherence of their plot in foreign markets above representation, a tacit approval of marginalization and partial erasure. Is that really the sort of stance we want to be supporting?

    what the fuck is your argument? "they're changing queer characters for China" no they're not "well they make things easier for other countries to edit!" yeah they do "should we support that?"

    support what? who here is supporting that? most people here aren't filmmakers and can't fuckin change hollywood

    you made a racist post, got called out on it, and instead of addressing it you just keep changing your argument to tell us what kind of representation we should appreciate and support

    BlankZoe
  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    Zonugal wrote: »
    I'm 75% of the way through Infinite Crisis.

    You folks remember Sam Raimi's Oz: The Great & Powerful?

    You remember that scene where Theodora, the newly formed Wicked Witch, arrives at the Emerald City and becomes focused hellfire to break through the city's magical bubble shield?

    Superboy-Prime just got out of his cage and its reminding me of that.

    but is he doing just fine?

    Sadly no, despite all his rage he is still trapped like a rat in a cage

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  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    could be that, could be filmmakers acknowledging their movies will be edited and try to accommodate so that it's not a mess after.

    Even if that's true, it still means the filmmakers are valuing the structure and coherence of their plot in foreign markets above representation, a tacit approval of marginalization and partial erasure. Is that really the sort of stance we want to be supporting?

    what the fuck is your argument? "they're changing queer characters for China" no they're not "well they make things easier for other countries to edit!" yeah they do "should we support that?"

    support what? who here is supporting that? most people here aren't filmmakers and can't fuckin change hollywood

    you made a racist post, got called out on it, and instead of addressing it you just keep changing your argument to tell us what kind of representation we should appreciate and support

    Sorry for being unclear earlier.

    I'm just curious about people's opinions on the issue of filmmakers valuing coherent plot structure above taking a stand for full global representation, especially when the governments they are so eager to appease are among the most oppressive in the world, since it is a topic that came up over the course of the conversation and also a complex argument where good points could be made in support of either side. I thought it could be educational to hear some alternative viewpoints on it.

    If anyone doesn't feel comfortable sharing their stance on this issue, they don't have to do so, of course. No pressure.

    Saying we're not filmmakers and we can't change the practice feels like going too easy on Hollywood. It's excusing their moral cowardice as an inevitability. It's hiding behind Hollywood, not unlike how Hollywood hides behind China. Even if we cannot stop the practice, surely we can at least denounce it. Except, of course, those among us who live in nations where they risk imprisonment for publicly expressing such sentiments.

  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    I have finished DC Comics' Infinite Crisis novelization.

    Lesson #1: Comic book fanboys will try to destroy everything & everyone

    Lesson #2: ALWAYS invite the Joker to play...

    Up next, starting tomorrow:

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  • SorceSorce Registered User regular
    But why?

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  • sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    Moth 13 wrote: »
    I saw it but I do not remember a single thing about it.

    I remember that Mila Kunis is great in it and James Franco is James Franco playing James Franco.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Better than Michael Cera playing James Franco playing poker.

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  • MagellMagell Sphinx! Parts UnknownRegistered User regular
    could be that, could be filmmakers acknowledging their movies will be edited and try to accommodate so that it's not a mess after.

    Even if that's true, it still means the filmmakers are valuing the structure and coherence of their plot in foreign markets above representation, a tacit approval of marginalization and partial erasure. Is that really the sort of stance we want to be supporting?

    what the fuck is your argument? "they're changing queer characters for China" no they're not "well they make things easier for other countries to edit!" yeah they do "should we support that?"

    support what? who here is supporting that? most people here aren't filmmakers and can't fuckin change hollywood

    you made a racist post, got called out on it, and instead of addressing it you just keep changing your argument to tell us what kind of representation we should appreciate and support

    Sorry for being unclear earlier.

    I'm just curious about people's opinions on the issue of filmmakers valuing coherent plot structure above taking a stand for full global representation, especially when the governments they are so eager to appease are among the most oppressive in the world, since it is a topic that came up over the course of the conversation and also a complex argument where good points could be made in support of either side. I thought it could be educational to hear some alternative viewpoints on it.

    If anyone doesn't feel comfortable sharing their stance on this issue, they don't have to do so, of course. No pressure.

    Saying we're not filmmakers and we can't change the practice feels like going too easy on Hollywood. It's excusing their moral cowardice as an inevitability. It's hiding behind Hollywood, not unlike how Hollywood hides behind China. Even if we cannot stop the practice, surely we can at least denounce it. Except, of course, those among us who live in nations where they risk imprisonment for publicly expressing such sentiments.

    Filmmakerz don't have final say on the edit of a blockbuster to begin with, but the real point is LGBTQ representation in comics and movies is because America has shitty views and its not China's fault.

  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Better than Michael Cera playing James Franco playing poker.

    Michael Cera was playing Tobey Maguire, not James Franco (in Molly's Game).

    Bucketman
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Better than Michael Cera playing James Franco playing poker.

    Michael Cera was playing Tobey Maguire, not James Franco (in Molly's Game).

    That makes a lot more sense.

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  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    Guys, if @Zonugal keeps going in this order, the next novelization he's going to read is Countdown.

    Should we… should we warn him?

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Am reminded of how Michael Ironside plays Michael Ironside in everything he's in.
    Fortunately, he's fairly entertaining.

    (Nor is he the only one, just the first that comes to mind.)

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  • KetarKetar Come on upstairs we're having a partyRegistered User regular
    Am reminded of how Michael Ironside plays Michael Ironside in everything he's in.
    Fortunately, he's fairly entertaining.

    (Nor is he the only one, just the first that comes to mind.)

    Your mom is fairly entertaining.

    Michael Ironside is more than we mere mortals deserve.

  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited August 2
    Like, if we look at the Marvel side of the equation we can see that the last ten years has been a power struggle against people who at the very least realize that movies about non-straight white males sell and increase the audience on the one side and people convinced that so much as making movies like “Captain Marvel” and “Black Panther” would be box office poison.

    Marvel’s output when it comes to these sorts of things isn’t much different from DC or any average studio really. I don’t think there is a good reason to not assume that sort of struggle isn’t happening everywhere in the entertainment industry. Harley Quinn is being made heterosexual in some places and being allowed to be gay in others because there are some assholes pulling the strings that are either homophobic or believe homosexuality to be box office poison.

    nightmarenny on
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  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    edited August 2
    I would argue DC has done a much better job than Marvel representation wise

    It took Marvel 18 movies to make one with a BIPOC lead (of which there is still only the one until Shang-Chi) and 21 for one starring a woman

    It took DC 3 DCEU movies to make Wonder Woman and 5 for Aquaman

    Neither are, like, bastions of diversity, especially when it comes to LGBTQ content, but Marvel dragged its heels for a decade (even after Perlmutter was shut down it still took years) meanwhile DC largely hit the ground running

    BlankZoe on
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  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    Guys, if @Zonugal keeps going in this order, the next novelization he's going to read is Countdown.

    Should we… should we warn him?

    I'm actually skipping the Countdown novelization as the reviews for it have been...

    They aren't great.

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  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    I would argue DC has done a much better job than Marvel representation wise

    It took Marvel 18 movies to make one with a BIPOC lead (of which there is still only the one until Shang-Chi) and 21 for one starring a woman

    It took DC 3 DCEU movies to make Wonder Woman and 5 for Aquaman

    Neither are, like, bastions of diversity, especially when it comes to LGBTQ content, but Marvel dragged its heels for a decade (even after Perlmutter was shut down it still took years) meanwhile DC largely hit the ground running

    not to turn it into "marvel vs dc" (since i don't watch much marvel TV), but again, DC TV shows are where to go for that gay shit

    if the arrowverse can't make a character queer, they'll sure as shit make them accepting with no problems

    fuckin' young justice has a non-binary character and gay characters

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  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    I would argue DC has done a much better job than Marvel representation wise

    It took Marvel 18 movies to make one with a BIPOC lead (of which there is still only the one until Shang-Chi) and 21 for one starring a woman

    It took DC 3 DCEU movies to make Wonder Woman and 5 for Aquaman

    Neither are, like, bastions of diversity, especially when it comes to LGBTQ content, but Marvel dragged its heels for a decade (even after Perlmutter was shut down it still took years) meanwhile DC largely hit the ground running

    Also suicide squads leads.

    StraightziBlankZoe
  • Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    edited August 2
    BlankZoe wrote: »
    I would argue DC has done a much better job than Marvel representation wise

    It took Marvel 18 movies to make one with a BIPOC lead (of which there is still only the one until Shang-Chi) and 21 for one starring a woman

    It took DC 3 DCEU movies to make Wonder Woman and 5 for Aquaman

    Neither are, like, bastions of diversity, especially when it comes to LGBTQ content, but Marvel dragged its heels for a decade (even after Perlmutter was shut down it still took years) meanwhile DC largely hit the ground running

    not to turn it into "marvel vs dc" (since i don't watch much marvel TV), but again, DC TV shows are where to go for that gay shit

    if the arrowverse can't make a character queer, they'll sure as shit make them accepting with no problems

    fuckin' young justice has a non-binary character and gay characters

    Gotham, the only good DC show*, gave us gay Penguin and bi Barbara Gordon



    *also the only one I've watched, I'm sure these are unrelated

    Crippl3 on
  • RingoRingo HE KEEPS REPEATING THE LINE I'M GONNA CRY BLEASE LET HIM LIVE YOU MADE ME WATCH SO MUCH KISSING IN THIS FILM LET INIGO LIVERegistered User regular
    Guys, if Zonugal keeps going in this order, the next novelization he's going to read is Countdown.

    Should we… should we warn him?

    That it's 52 Done Right?

    Nah, he'll figure it out

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Guys, if Zonugal keeps going in this order, the next novelization he's going to read is Countdown.

    Should we… should we warn him?

    That it's 52 Done Right?

    Nah, he'll figure it out

    you're a monster

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Guys, if Zonugal keeps going in this order, the next novelization he's going to read is Countdown.

    Should we… should we warn him?

    That it's 52 Done Right?

    Nah, he'll figure it out

    you're a monster

    No, Dan Didio is the name of the Monster.

    He's just the Doctor.

    Or something.

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