[Steven Universe] Be Thankful Rose Quartz Ain’t Yo’ Mama (open spoilers)

MimMim I don’t do cocaine, I just like how it smellsRegistered User regular
edited September 2019 in Debate and/or Discourse
All Steven Universe related discussion here! IT IS OPEN SPOILERS SO READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Who are they?: The Crystal Gems
What do they do?: Always save the day
What if we think they can’t?: They always find a way

Unless that way is dealing with their former leader’s fuckboy ways.

OP will be updated later, but get talking! The movie came out September 2nd and we’re learning more about adolescent Steven and how he is coming to terms with handling all the broken pieces his mother has left behind.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I for one enjoy how Pink Diamond is demonized but the other Diamonds are treated like puppies who spilled the food bowl.

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  • MimMim I don’t do cocaine, I just like how it smells Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    I for one enjoy how Pink Diamond is demonized but the other Diamonds are treated like puppies who spilled the food bowl.

    I guess because the rest of the Diamonds are just about domination and keeping in line with expectations.

    Pink/Rose makes you think she actually cares about you and wants you to be you, but really she just wants to use you until she’s bored

  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    As long as we're all in agreement that Jasper is irredeemable trash, this thread is a-okay.

    Mimoverride367
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Talking about Pink Diamond/Rose Quartz is tough because she is, really, a different person once she becomes Rose Quartz and starts the rebellion.

    Once Pink saw life on earth, she had her epiphany pretty much instantly, all by herself, with no ones help, despite literally everyone and everything in her culture telling her she was wrong. Once when trying to scare the Gems off of earth, then again after seeing Garnet. It's often understarted how heavily pretty much everyone else in the series, including the other Crystal Gems, hell even Connie has relied entirely on Steven's moral compass to tell them what to do and how to do it, even if they had zero understanding why it was the right thing to do. Rose didn't. So while Pink Diamond did a lot of bad things, I do think the tonal whiplash between how the early episodes/recent episodes is a misstep.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    As long as we're all in agreement that Jasper is irredeemable trash, this thread is a-okay.

    Perhaps the single most consistent theme of the show is that no one is beyond redemption.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Jasper has done less terrible things than Rose Quartz.

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  • DacDac Registered User regular
    Jasper was a loyal soldier deceived by her own Diamond, was kept prisoner in an abusive relationship by Lapis, and tried to fulfill her mission afterward, falling into bad relationships and contracting a fusion STD.

    Yeah, she treated Amethyst like garbage, and that's not okay, but she's not irredeemable.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Jasper has done less terrible things than Rose Quartz.

    Only because Rose betrayed the genocidal empire. Otherwise, Jasper would have helped kill all life on Earth. Gems are world-killing parasites.

    MarathonApogee
  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Jasper is probably going to be the enemy for the last season, right?

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    The starting positions of 'was in favor/not in favor of perpetually colonizing and obliterating all other forms of life throughout the cosmos' is so unbalanced that it's tough for me to place any Homeworld gem over any of the Crystal Gems. Even ones like Lapis, that were 'I don't care, just leave me alone'

    Incenjucar
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    I will say that it may have been a mistake to basically show Rose's character development in reverse without reemphasizing that she had changed since then and eventually saved life on Earth.

    As somebody upthread said, the other Diamonds are given more of a pass than she is now.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    Jasper is probably going to be the enemy for the last season, right?

    Nah, it'll be the sneople.

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  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    I will say that it may have been a mistake to basically show Rose's character development in reverse without reemphasizing that she had changed since then and eventually saved life on Earth.

    Only in the sense of endearing us to her: it does create some pretty effective drama for Steven to have to process.

    I think the best thing would be if this were treated as the sort of “low point” of her character in the show, and for finishing it out we end on learning some positive things about her that bring her legacy full circle.

    I like that she has been taken to basically every point of “was a saint” and “was a monster”, and I think finishing it out with Steven reconciling all of this is the way to go.

    wanderingTofystedeth
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    We still don't really know what Lion and Lars' deal is, right? Why do they have a pocket dimension linked to them, and why was Lion a secret from the Crystal Gems?

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  • DacDac Registered User regular
    Maybe that'll be revealed in the next season.

    I think there's a next season? It's unclear.

    I still don't know why there would be.

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  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    We still don't really know what Lion and Lars' deal is, right? Why do they have a pocket dimension linked to them, and why was Lion a secret from the Crystal Gems?

    I figured that was just what happens to someone when they’re dead and their body is animated by pink diamond’s power? Maybe Lion is just a lion that got killed because of Pink Diamond somehow and she felt remorse over it? I was thinking the pocket dimension might actually be the inside of Pink Diamond’s gem, similar to how we saw the inside of Pearl’s gem.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    Maybe that'll be revealed in the next season.

    I think there's a next season? It's unclear.

    I still don't know why there would be.

    There definitely is one coming. It's been said it will be different from what's come before...somehow.

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  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Also, regarding Lars, reposting from @visiblehowl :

    Dacwandering
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    We still don't really know what Lion and Lars' deal is, right? Why do they have a pocket dimension linked to them, and why was Lion a secret from the Crystal Gems?

    I figured that was just what happens to someone when they’re dead and their body is animated by pink diamond’s power? Maybe Lion is just a lion that got killed because of Pink Diamond somehow and she felt remorse over it? I was thinking the pocket dimension might actually be the inside of Pink Diamond’s gem, similar to how we saw the inside of Pearl’s gem.

    That would explain one of the events in the movie, at least.

  • DacDac Registered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    Maybe that'll be revealed in the next season.

    I think there's a next season? It's unclear.

    I still don't know why there would be.

    There definitely is one coming. It's been said it will be different from what's come before...somehow.

    All townie episodes. The entire season.

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  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Registered User regular
    SU Season 6 stars a Steven, but not the one we know.

    The star is Cat Steven.

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  • DacDac Registered User regular
    Season 6: Return of the Lion Lickers.

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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    Spinel's song was so fuckin' good.

    Oh brilliant
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  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Spinel's song was so fuckin' good.

    The movie is very good in general

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    BTW apparently the chest in the Lion/Lars pocket dimension is seen to be open in the background during the movie

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  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    Maybe that'll be revealed in the next season.

    I think there's a next season? It's unclear.

    I still don't know why there would be.

    There definitely is one coming. It's been said it will be different from what's come before...somehow.

    All townie episodes. The entire season.

    I still maintain that the finale of SU has to be Steven doing a mega fusion with every citizen of Beach City. How could it end any other way?

    wandering
  • DacDac Registered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    Maybe that'll be revealed in the next season.

    I think there's a next season? It's unclear.

    I still don't know why there would be.

    There definitely is one coming. It's been said it will be different from what's come before...somehow.

    All townie episodes. The entire season.

    I still maintain that the finale of SU has to be Steven doing a mega fusion with every citizen of Beach City. How could it end any other way?

    Hey, someone else had this idea!

    Yeah, absolutely agree. Especially now that they've really stepped back from fusion being a thinly veiled allegory for sex in the later seasons, so it wouldn't be so.. creepy.

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  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    If I had to watch one episode of this show to get me into it which one would it be

    “Even as a gengar she was lovely.” ― Ovid, Metamorphoses
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    Episode 9: Tiger Millionaire.

    Oh brilliant
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  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Eddy wrote: »
    If I had to watch one episode of this show to get me into it which one would it be

    That’s a hard question and it really depends on what you’re looking for in it. Do you want a cute cartoon about a dysfunctional family in a small beach town? Do you want a mysterious space adventure? Do you want an interesting allegory about relationships that points at some deeper/more serious themes than it directly lets on?

    Tofystedeth
  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    Maybe that'll be revealed in the next season.

    I think there's a next season? It's unclear.

    I still don't know why there would be.

    There definitely is one coming. It's been said it will be different from what's come before...somehow.

    All townie episodes. The entire season.

    I still maintain that the finale of SU has to be Steven doing a mega fusion with every citizen of Beach City. How could it end any other way?

    Hey, someone else had this idea!

    Yeah, absolutely agree. Especially now that they've really stepped back from fusion being a thinly veiled allegory for sex in the later seasons, so it wouldn't be so.. creepy.

    Eh, I’ve always maintained that fusion is an allegory for relationships, including close friends and familial relationships, it’s just that the first few fusions we were introduced to made sense when thought of as sexual relationships

    Hexmage-PA21stCentury
  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    Maybe that'll be revealed in the next season.

    I think there's a next season? It's unclear.

    I still don't know why there would be.

    There definitely is one coming. It's been said it will be different from what's come before...somehow.

    All townie episodes. The entire season.

    I still maintain that the finale of SU has to be Steven doing a mega fusion with every citizen of Beach City. How could it end any other way?
    Futurama: The Beast with a Billion Backs did it first

    w4c8g6uf3igi.jpg
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  • DacDac Registered User regular
    Recommending a taster episode for SU is difficult because the characters develop so much.

    Maybe Giant Woman? It introduces the idea of fusion.

    I think the one that made me sit up and be like 'yo this show is officially what I am about right now' was S1 episode 45: Rose's Scabbard.

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  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Registered User regular
    I'd almost say Mindful Education if it wasn't so far along in the show's lifetime and if it didn't spoil A Lot Of Things

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Tiger Millionaire is a pretty good choice

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  • KizmittKizmitt Registered User regular
    Steven and the Stevens. It's got singing, magical artifacts, and a lot more steven then usual. If you can handle how annoying Steven is in this episode you'll be ready to watch the rest of the episodes with only a fraction of the Stevens.

    21stCenturyTofystedethXaquin
  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Mim wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    I for one enjoy how Pink Diamond is demonized but the other Diamonds are treated like puppies who spilled the food bowl.

    I guess because the rest of the Diamonds are just about domination and keeping in line with expectations.

    Pink/Rose makes you think she actually cares about you and wants you to be you, but really she just wants to use you until she’s bored

    That is a pretty unfair interpretation of what we get from Rose and I don’t think it’s really supported by the text. Rose definitely cares for people and she doesn’t just discard them. The big problem with how a lot of people look at Rose is that we see her character development backwards. We see what she did to Spinel last and we don’t even really get to see why Rose does what she does. Rose has a consistent character flaw of embracing her privilege even though she should know that that’s wrong but also acting like everyone is as free as she is and we can see that she works that out by the end of her life.
    Dac wrote: »
    Jasper was a loyal soldier deceived by her own Diamond, was kept prisoner in an abusive relationship by Lapis, and tried to fulfill her mission afterward, falling into bad relationships and contracting a fusion STD.

    Yeah, she treated Amethyst like garbage, and that's not okay, but she's not irredeemable.

    That read involving lapis only works if you ignore all of the implied power that Jasper had over Lapis in that scene. The metaphor is of the way that people in abusive relationships will turn their abuser towards them rather than let their abuser hurt others.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    It's worth keeping in mind the song at the end of the show, which is likely Rose singing about Greg and how she recognizes her deep flaws.

    There's also Rose's essentially offing herself to create Steven, which could be rather easily read in a dark, dark way.

    As for the movie, Spinel is arguably less abused than Lapis, who was outright enslaved, and multiple gems *knew about her*, while Rose may have forgotten Spinel due to war.

    TofystedethMahnmut
  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It's worth keeping in mind the song at the end of the show, which is likely Rose singing about Greg and how she recognizes her deep flaws.

    There's also Rose's essentially offing herself to create Steven, which could be rather easily read in a dark, dark way.

    As for the movie, Spinel is arguably less abused than Lapis, who was outright enslaved, and multiple gems *knew about her*, while Rose may have forgotten Spinel due to war.

    Honestly I doubt rose even grasped how literally spinel would take her orders until it was far too late. She takes a very long time to realize pearl can never really love her in an equal way.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It's worth keeping in mind the song at the end of the show, which is likely Rose singing about Greg and how she recognizes her deep flaws.

    There's also Rose's essentially offing herself to create Steven, which could be rather easily read in a dark, dark way.

    As for the movie, Spinel is arguably less abused than Lapis, who was outright enslaved, and multiple gems *knew about her*, while Rose may have forgotten Spinel due to war.

    Honestly I doubt rose even grasped how literally spinel would take her orders until it was far too late. She takes a very long time to realize pearl can never really love her in an equal way.

    Gems are pretty consistently shown to be incredibly slow to learn or comprehend without Steven.

    MegaMekTofystedeth
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