[Steven Universe] Be Thankful Rose Quartz Ain’t Yo’ Mama (open spoilers)

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    This is unrelated to the Rose talk and should not be interpreted as a defense of her very poor treatment of Spinel but I found it interesting how...

    Well, ok Spinel is kinda an extremely toxic person. I find it interesting that an insistent chunk of the fan base is of treating her completely the victim. Her desperate appeals to force Steven to fight her were extremely...

    Well, they gave me some flashbacks is all.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    This is unrelated to the Rose talk and should not be interpreted as a defense of her very poor treatment of Spinel but I found it interesting how...

    Well, ok Spinel is kinda an extremely toxic person. I find interesting insistent a chunk of the fan base is on treating her completely the victim. Her desperate appeals to force Steven to fight her were extremely...

    Well, they gave me some flashbacks is all.

    Most of the show is toxic, abusive relationships.

    At the start if the series, Pearl and Amethyst abused each other constantly, and both lived in constant fear if Garnet, while everyone hid things from Steven, and Lars treated Steven and Sadie like garbage, and Sadie allowed the treatment of Steven. And then it gets worse.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It's worth keeping in mind the song at the end of the show, which is likely Rose singing about Greg and how she recognizes her deep flaws.

    There's also Rose's essentially offing herself to create Steven, which could be rather easily read in a dark, dark way.

    As for the movie, Spinel is arguably less abused than Lapis, who was outright enslaved, and multiple gems *knew about her*, while Rose may have forgotten Spinel due to war.

    The song is basically almost every relationship in the series, some make it positive, some make it negative.

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  • DacDac Registered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    Jasper was a loyal soldier deceived by her own Diamond, was kept prisoner in an abusive relationship by Lapis, and tried to fulfill her mission afterward, falling into bad relationships and contracting a fusion STD.

    Yeah, she treated Amethyst like garbage, and that's not okay, but she's not irredeemable.

    That read involving lapis only works if you ignore all of the implied power that Jasper had over Lapis in that scene. The metaphor is of the way that people in abusive relationships will turn their abuser towards them rather than let their abuser hurt others.

    I'm being slightly facetious for effect. Like most things in SU, it's complicated.

    Like, Alone at Sea has Lapis admitting that she took out her anger on Jasper and abused her, and it was unhealthy, while also having Jasper acting like a bully and doing the "I've changed!" thing to try and get her back. Lapis and Jasper were awful for and to one another, as Lapis straight up admits in that scene. The abuse wasn't a one-way street.

    I'm disappointed that there was no Jasper in the movie. Was she in a background shot anywhere? Her character arc is, like, one of the only things I'd still like to see concluded if another season happens.

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  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    It's worth keeping in mind the song at the end of the show, which is likely Rose singing about Greg and how she recognizes her deep flaws.

    There's also Rose's essentially offing herself to create Steven, which could be rather easily read in a dark, dark way.

    As for the movie, Spinel is arguably less abused than Lapis, who was outright enslaved, and multiple gems *knew about her*, while Rose may have forgotten Spinel due to war.

    Honestly I doubt rose even grasped how literally spinel would take her orders until it was far too late. She takes a very long time to realize pearl can never really love her in an equal way.

    Gems are pretty consistently shown to be incredibly slow to learn or comprehend without Steven.

    Which makes sense, they live for thousands and thousands of years and are from a rigid, hierarchical society.

    It's human beings that really throw a wrench in the works when it comes to that, being organic and able to grow and change and etc.

    Which is, of course, why I believe that Greg is secretly the most important character in the show.

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  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    wandering wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    Maybe that'll be revealed in the next season.

    I think there's a next season? It's unclear.

    I still don't know why there would be.

    There definitely is one coming. It's been said it will be different from what's come before...somehow.

    All townie episodes. The entire season.

    I still maintain that the finale of SU has to be Steven doing a mega fusion with every citizen of Beach City. How could it end any other way?
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  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    It would be neat for further seasons to also expand on the universe of the show a bit more too.

    I mean, if all gems are artificial, who created the first ones? Do they all spring ultimately from White Diamond? Is she a naturally occurring being, or was she created also? And by who, for what reason?

    I mean, I guess the time skip in the movie probably makes it less likely that there's some creators behind the gems though, since I'm sure in 2 years of establishing galactic peace it would have come up. But it's always been in the back of my mind since the first season. The gems were producing massive amounts of soldiers and powerful weapons - was it always to subdue other worlds and expand the empire, or was there something else?

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  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    I've always read the Diamonds like Titans or old Giants. They have always been.

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  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    I've always read the Diamonds like Titans or old Giants. They have always been.

    Not Pink, though. She's a later addition.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    I'll be very surprised if the creators of Gemkind never become important.

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  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    I've always read the Diamonds like Titans or old Giants. They have always been.

    Not Pink, though. She's a later addition.

    Perhaps they were bored and needed a young 'equal'? They took to Spinel rather instantly.

  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    Einzel wrote: »
    I've always read the Diamonds like Titans or old Giants. They have always been.

    Not Pink, though. She's a later addition.

    Perhaps they were bored and needed a young 'equal'? They took to Spinel rather instantly.

    White described Pink as a part of herself, I always imagined that White created the other three.

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    White definitely created the other diamonds who in turn power the injectors making all the other Gems.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Einzel wrote: »
    Einzel wrote: »
    I've always read the Diamonds like Titans or old Giants. They have always been.

    Not Pink, though. She's a later addition.

    Perhaps they were bored and needed a young 'equal'? They took to Spinel rather instantly.

    Oh goodness. We're going to get a "Steven goes to the planet that was sucked dry to create Pink" episode, aren't we?

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    I don't think Pink was a late addition. Im pretty sure the three non-whites came in to existence at the same time.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I just really want to know where they get the shellfish for pearls from.

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  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    I think the gems came to be in a way similar to the watermelons.

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    I just really want to know where they get the shellfish for pearls from.

    https://steven-universe.fandom.com/wiki/Crystal_Shrimp

    ?

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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    This is unrelated to the Rose talk and should not be interpreted as a defense of her very poor treatment of Spinel but I found it interesting how...

    Well, ok Spinel is kinda an extremely toxic person. I find it interesting that an insistent chunk of the fan base is of treating her completely the victim. Her desperate appeals to force Steven to fight her were extremely...

    Well, they gave me some flashbacks is all.

    Rebecca says as much in an interview. Spinal is meant to be a toxic influence on everyone. Herself included

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Did any of the characters ever go to a therapist, given every single one of them is in desperate need of one?

  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Did any of the characters ever go to a therapist, given every single one of them is in desperate need of one?

    That’s kind of the subtext of the whole show? There are no psychiatrists for gems, so they have to learn healthier ways of dealing with themselves and their feelings. The show itself is like gem therapy.

    Though it would’ve been at least cute to have an episode where Steven convinces the crystal gems to go see an actual therapist together.

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Did any of the characters ever go to a therapist, given every single one of them is in desperate need of one?

    That’s kind of the subtext of the whole show? There are no psychiatrists for gems, so they have to learn healthier ways of dealing with themselves and their feelings. The show itself is like gem therapy.

    Though it would’ve been at least cute to have an episode where Steven convinces the crystal gems to go see an actual therapist together.
    That would be a hilarious episode.

    Just got to watch through the movie, and loved it. The music was great. As was Steg.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Did any of the characters ever go to a therapist, given every single one of them is in desperate need of one?

    That’s kind of the subtext of the whole show? There are no psychiatrists for gems, so they have to learn healthier ways of dealing with themselves and their feelings. The show itself is like gem therapy.

    Though it would’ve been at least cute to have an episode where Steven convinces the crystal gems to go see an actual therapist together.

    It kind of feels like it would be the responsible way to end the show, honestly. Nobody, rock or no, should go through all of those traumas without talking to a professional - tearful children should not bear the emotional labor burden of a pack of abused and abusive adults.

    Winky
  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Did any of the characters ever go to a therapist, given every single one of them is in desperate need of one?

    That’s kind of the subtext of the whole show? There are no psychiatrists for gems, so they have to learn healthier ways of dealing with themselves and their feelings. The show itself is like gem therapy.

    Though it would’ve been at least cute to have an episode where Steven convinces the crystal gems to go see an actual therapist together.

    It kind of feels like it would be the responsible way to end the show, honestly. Nobody, rock or no, should go through all of those traumas without talking to a professional - tearful children should not bear the emotional labor burden of a pack of abused and abusive adults.

    Agreed, I think explicitly addressing in some manner that it’s good to seek the help of a professional for these sorts of problems would be a good message.

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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Winky wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Did any of the characters ever go to a therapist, given every single one of them is in desperate need of one?

    That’s kind of the subtext of the whole show? There are no psychiatrists for gems, so they have to learn healthier ways of dealing with themselves and their feelings. The show itself is like gem therapy.

    Though it would’ve been at least cute to have an episode where Steven convinces the crystal gems to go see an actual therapist together.

    It kind of feels like it would be the responsible way to end the show, honestly. Nobody, rock or no, should go through all of those traumas without talking to a professional - tearful children should not bear the emotional labor burden of a pack of abused and abusive adults.

    I dont think ethically a psychologist could treat a gem. Theyre minds are similar to humans but their culture is not. Steven is the closest thing they have right now.

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  • ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    Tiger Millionaire is a pretty good choice

    Blah, hard pass. I've never cared for WWE or the like and all the wrestling episodes were pretty 'blah' to me.

    That said, Laser Light Canon is IMO a great intro - it's near the start, so you don't miss much, introduces a lot of the characters, and firmly establishes the 'there is a lot going on you don't understand' motif the show does so well.

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  • EinzelEinzel Registered User regular
    Apogee wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    Tiger Millionaire is a pretty good choice

    Blah, hard pass. I've never cared for WWE or the like and all the wrestling episodes were pretty 'blah' to me.

    That said, Laser Light Canon is IMO a great intro - it's near the start, so you don't miss much, introduces a lot of the characters, and firmly establishes the 'there is a lot going on you don't understand' motif the show does so well.

    I can't stand that one either, but honestly it captures the feeling of most of the show very very well.

  • Slacker1913Slacker1913 Registered User regular
    Laser Light Cannon was supposed to be the first episode anyway.

    Eh, I'll get around to it.
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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    I always recommend Laser Light Cannon. Captures the heart of the show perfectly.

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  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    The best first episode, in my opinion, is Pilot, followed by Gem Glow.

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  • DacDac Registered User regular
    The gems have a psychiatrist. His name is Steven.

    That's kind of why Amethyst gets pissed off later on, because he really shouldn't have to be.

    When I think about it, Steven is probably one of my favorite characters in media. Which is saying a lot, because at the start of the show I couldn't stand him, and was watching it for the gems. Dude goes through so much development.

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  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    The gems have a psychiatrist. His name is Steven.

    That's kind of why Amethyst gets pissed off later on, because he really shouldn't have to be.

    When I think about it, Steven is probably one of my favorite characters in media. Which is saying a lot, because at the start of the show I couldn't stand him, and was watching it for the gems. Dude goes through so much development.

    Yeah, and I love that the whole plot of the movie is just to highlight that. He starts out as completely dependent on the other gems and then grows to become the thing holding all of them together, proving them right to have had faith in him.

  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Steven is a traumatized child. It's really gross to imply that it's a child's role to fix things for all the adults.

  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Steven is a traumatized child. It's really gross to imply that it's a child's role to fix things for all the adults.

    The gems aren't really adults. They're aliens brought up in a dystopian society with limited human contact and no real pressure to emotionally grow, given that they're basically immortal. I haven't watched the movie, but I do know that humans and gems with the most human contact quickly realize the unfair situation that Steven is in.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Steven is a traumatized child. It's really gross to imply that it's a child's role to fix things for all the adults.

    The lyrics in the first song of the movie state Steven is "always putting others first". He's always going out of his way to try and help people, both Gem and human.

    In the case of Spinel he's even trying to help someone who wants to murder him, which he can only do thanks to his powers completely negating her attacks.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Audio Game Developer Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Steven is a traumatized child. It's really gross to imply that it's a child's role to fix things for all the adults.

    The lyrics in the first song of the movie state Steven is "always putting others first". He's always going out of his way to try and help people, both Gem and human.

    In the case of Spinel he's even trying to help someone who wants to murder him, which he can only do thanks to his powers completely negating her attacks.

    Yeah. He never gets to be his own person, despite barely having started puberty. At this point he's everyone's parent. He gets less choice about his future than some of the gems.

  • DacDac Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Steven is a traumatized child. It's really gross to imply that it's a child's role to fix things for all the adults.

    It's not his responsibility. That's why Amethyst was right to get pissed.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Dac wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Steven is a traumatized child. It's really gross to imply that it's a child's role to fix things for all the adults.

    It's not his role. That's why Amethyst was right to get pissed.

    I can't find the interview right now, but Rebecca Sugar commented on how Steven chooses to try and get through to Spinel instead of fighting back against her. According to Sugar, Steven's way of doing things isn't necessarily good, but it's his way.

    I found that interesting and wished it was more elaborated upon, because the idea that Steven's way of doing things isn't necessarily right isn't well-represented in the show. For the most part Steven goes out of his way to help people, rarely seems to have second thoughts about it, and the show usually treats it as a good thing. Amethyst's refusal to let him help her is an exception rather than the rule.

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  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    BTW there's going to be a Steven Universe event at NYCC next week on October 4th, so we might get some news regarding what's coming next very soon!

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Steven is a traumatized child. It's really gross to imply that it's a child's role to fix things for all the adults.

    It's not his role. That's why Amethyst was right to get pissed.

    I can't find the interview right now, but Rebecca Sugar commented on how Steven chooses to try and get through to Spinel instead of fighting back against her. According to Sugar, Steven's way of doing things isn't necessarily good, but it's his way.

    I found that interesting and wished it was more elaborated upon, because the idea that Steven's way of doing things isn't necessarily right isn't well-represented in the show. For the most part Steven goes out of his way to help people, rarely seems to have second thoughts about it, and the show usually treats it as a good thing. Amethyst's refusal to let him help her is an exception rather than the rule.

    His reaction to Connie's silence after returning from the whole trial/Lars thing is a pretty good showcase of Steven's flaw. He instantly wants to talk about everything and fix everything immediately, to the point of not respecting the personal space of others. She made her stance clear, and he just kept texting her and pushing her and pressuring her into talking on his terms, and couldn't handle being told 'I don't want to talk to you right now'

    This, combined with his insistence that Amethyst tells him how she feels about Rose/Pink, despite her insistence that he drop it, does indicate an innate distrust in people to work through their own shit. That he has so embraced fixing everyones problems that he refuses to back off, even when asked.

    On the whole, though, I'd rather Steven be a selfless character. He's one of, if not the most powerful being in the galaxy, as far as we know, and he inherited that power. I'd rather he make the conscious decision to wield that power more as a tool for the collective, and he its user, than to use it primarily to make his own life better.

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