EDIT: Also EVE-O forums disgust me over the whole thermodynamics thing.
It's bullshit, it's a high end skill that leads into tech 3 and they want the bloody requirements dropped, muppets.
Bullshit, its a low end skill that fucks over low skillpointed characters for no reason, further increasing the skillpoint divide.
"Fucking them over" is arguable. Heat complicates an already complicated combat system. You can make it worse for yourself by overheating your guns and not knowing what you're doing than not using heat at all.
also considering the amount of times I accidentally hit the goddamn heat button last night, I don't know if I'll ever pick up the Thermodynamics skillbook
EDIT: Also EVE-O forums disgust me over the whole thermodynamics thing.
It's bullshit, it's a high end skill that leads into tech 3 and they want the bloody requirements dropped, muppets.
Bullshit, its a low end skill that fucks over low skillpointed characters for no reason, further increasing the skillpoint divide.
"Fucking them over" is arguable. Heat complicates an already complicated combat system. You can make it worse for yourself by overheating your guns and not knowing what you're doing than not using heat at all.
also considering the amount of times I accidentally hit the goddamn heat button last night, I don't know if I'll ever pick up the Thermodynamics skillbook
You know you can lock heat to always be off, even if you hit the button, right? It's in the same little menu as absolute readout.
EDIT: Also EVE-O forums disgust me over the whole thermodynamics thing.
It's bullshit, it's a high end skill that leads into tech 3 and they want the bloody requirements dropped, muppets.
Bullshit, its a low end skill that fucks over low skillpointed characters for no reason, further increasing the skillpoint divide.
"Fucking them over" is arguable. Heat complicates an already complicated combat system. You can make it worse for yourself by overheating your guns and not knowing what you're doing than not using heat at all.
also considering the amount of times I accidentally hit the goddamn heat button last night, I don't know if I'll ever pick up the Thermodynamics skillbook
Protecting people from themselves is hardly a compelling argument to require 20+ days of skill training for a newb to access something that is so right god damn there on the ship UI. The argument that everyone should have EM 5 is also kind of lame - let people decide that, don't try and railroad them into it by putting some other bullshit up there (and it is bullshit anyway, Sisi adequately demonstrated that Heat is more or less worthless in almost all situations).
At the point you don't have EM 5, almost any other combat skill will be more worthwhile for about the same amount of time invested unless you're Amarr or something.
"Requisite" skills suck, and there should be less of them in EVE since every time one is added you basically raise the barriers to start playing the game. If they're worried about Tech 3 - well firstly Tech 3 being Heat-based will be incredibly stupid, but there's nothing stopping them adding high pre-req's to T3 stuff.
I simply don't understand why heat needs to be a trainable skill, let alone have prereqs.
And yeah, it's 'only' 15 days. Too bad I'd like to spend those 15 getting Cruiser V 3/5s of the way done, which would be a hell of a lot more useful to me.
"Requisite" skills suck, and there should be less of them in EVE since every time one is added you basically raise the barriers to start playing the game. If they're worried about Tech 3 - well firstly Tech 3 being Heat-based will be incredibly stupid, but there's nothing stopping them adding high pre-req's to T3 stuff.
But surely it's better, from an economy of skill training POV, to just have two or three high pre-reqs for the skill that opens up access to T3 modules rather than having every T3 module have it's own set of high pre-reqs?
I don't really see this as being such a big deal, personally. It makes sense from a logical perspective that being able to do something like fucking with the internal workings of your ship and it's modules to Overclock them should involve some pretty in-depth skill and knowledge. Perhaps the real issue here is that they've made it such an ovbvious 'thing I don't have' by putting the button on the interface regardless of whether you have the ability to use it or not.
I simply don't understand why heat needs to be a trainable skill, let alone have prereqs.
And yeah, it's 'only' 15 days. Too bad I'd like to spend those 15 getting Cruiser V 3/5s of the way done, which would be a hell of a lot more useful to me.
This is the other thing i don't get. If it isn't useful, why bother getting uppity about the pre-reqs anyway? Just ignore it.
(and it is bullshit anyway, Sisi adequately demonstrated that Heat is more or less worthless in almost all situations).
Huggins web out to 90km, Inties zoom at 20km+/s, Lachesis scrams to an ungodly range, and it's a pretty nice boost to blaster boats (heat web for 1 cycle to get within normal web range, then turn it off).
I'm digging it so far, though I only played with it on Sisi.
Also, can someone please post the req skills for bombs? At work now and I forgot to look last night.
"Requisite" skills suck, and there should be less of them in EVE since every time one is added you basically raise the barriers to start playing the game. If they're worried about Tech 3 - well firstly Tech 3 being Heat-based will be incredibly stupid, but there's nothing stopping them adding high pre-req's to T3 stuff.
But surely it's better, from an economy of skill training POV, to just have two or three high pre-reqs for the skill that opens up access to T3 modules rather than having every T3 module have it's own set of high pre-reqs?
I don't really see this as being such a big deal, personally. It makes sense from a logical perspective that being able to do something like fucking with the internal workings of your ship and it's modules to Overclock them should involve some pretty in-depth skill and knowledge. Perhaps the real issue here is that they've made it such an ovbvious 'thing I don't have' by putting the button on the interface regardless of whether you have the ability to use it or not.
T3 will almost certainly require other skills for whatever they add, since it's been the pattern with every other T2 thing. There's no specific reason to do it this way, and for the effort and generality that's gone into putting this in, as well as their various statements about it's intended operation, it just doesn't make sense (as well as the way it actually works).
The thing is, there's no value to Heat if you're flying a T2 setup for what's far more likely to happen (modules popping, you die because you can't do X anymore). The only time that would be useful is if you're in a close fight...but that's true of any time in any close fight that ever happens.
The difference though where it's highly accessible is that it makes hitting more cheaply or lower SP fitted ships a bit more interesting because it gives an intelligent pilot in them the opportunity to do something unexpected for at least 1 cycle of module.
But, thanks to the skill pre-reqs, this isn't what will happen because before EM 5 there's about a million other things which overall will give you a lot more benefit (including the other cap skill, which is quicker and easier to train and I believe I have it at 5 already).
EDIT: I don't know why this issue has me so riled up.
(and it is bullshit anyway, Sisi adequately demonstrated that Heat is more or less worthless in almost all situations).
Huggins web out to 90km, Inties zoom at 20km+/s, Lachesis scrams to an ungodly range, and it's a pretty nice boost to blaster boats (heat web for 1 cycle to get within normal web range, then turn it off).
I'm digging it so far, though I only played with it on Sisi.
Also, can someone please post the req skills for bombs? At work now and I forgot to look last night.
You can't "pre Heat" modules, so none of the EW stuff will work. You have to get within normal range, activate, heat, then kite out of range. And then of course, the module blows up 3 cycles later.
EDIT: You also kind of highlight my point - why implement something purely to make ships with good bonus' a hell of a lot better (thanks to the magic of % modifiers)?
Literally the only uses I can think of are a) for newbies in vigils, overheating the MWD, b) snipers, and c) last gasp try to kill the other guy before you die. A) doesn't work due to the prereqs, b) doesn't need any more help and just makes highSP players better, and c) isn't really needed.
It's dumb and CCP is dumb.
Speaking of dumb, their anti-POS spam rules have already been circumvented, good times.
Speaking of dumb, their anti-POS spam rules have already been circumvented, good times.
Seriously. Their POS spam solution makes me think they'd listen to retards who think that the way to fix Titans is to only allow one per alliance in system, or one DD per alliance per hour, or one Titan per alliance.
Dumbasses, THEY WILL JUST MAKE HOLDING ALLIANCES, YOU ARE RETARDED AND YOUR FIX IS RETARDED
Furthermore, Goum's suggested POS change is actually a pretty fantastic one and would be a satisfactory solution to POS spam.
guess i'll be stopping by shattered crystal tonight to buy some more evetime. Dammit.
edit: what's new with Rev II?
Or I could stop by and then sell it to you for ISK.
Do you have ISK?
nope, i have hardly any ISK. Also, what T3 equipment is coming along? I had a look on the 'new stuff' on Eve-O, but didn't see much directly mentioning that.
Literally the only uses I can think of are a) for newbies in vigils, overheating the MWD, b) snipers, and c) last gasp try to kill the other guy before you die. A) doesn't work due to the prereqs, b) doesn't need any more help and just makes highSP players better, and c) isn't really needed.
It's dumb and CCP is dumb.
Speaking of dumb, their anti-POS spam rules have already been circumvented, good times.
Oh yeah, I should say that while I'm defending the pre-reqs I still find the whole addition and concept of overheating "stick two wires in it and it'll power a clock" dumb.
I remember when I heard about it and tried it out thinking "you know, it could've just been like nitrous oxide for your modules or something". But that's really not what it is at all, because in my idea you got a very specific overload for a very specific time, and hence the goal was to pick when to use it.
I don't understand what kind of thought process determines it's okay to completely overhaul the UI, but make using that UI depend on a rank 3 skill that very few of the players wants to, or will have trained to 5. There are so many other skills more valuable for new players, and if they truly want heat to be a tactical addition to combat, having it be usable skill from player inception seems fairly important to me. I'm guessing they want to make sure game breaking problems will be limited to a small portion of the player base at first, hopefully they will lower the pre-req's at some point.
It does bare all the hallmarks of them pre-nerfing something. I just don't get why though - it's such a random skill that it's not like entire hallmark setups are going to be broken if it later needs controlling.
lv 5 Pre-reqs as a whole are bad. Especialy for game mechanics that work on nearly every single ship in the game. All they serve to do is make the spread between newbie players and experienced players larger. And that is a bad thing because it disincents the arrival of new players. The advantages to being an old player are already astronomical. Capital ships, even without the plethora of lv 5s(most of which dont even benefit other ships!) needed would still take a significant amount of time that you couldnt just rush into them. And since they need quality support skills and a social network to not get raped by small gangs[especialy with the new Lv 5s which will be bringing carebear capitals to low-sec], the ability to train them in a year wouldnt be devastating
. Tech 2 ships have huge training requirements and are terribly expensive, and neither are battleships something you can just jump into. Add in the newfound role of logistics[you need level 5 to make it work in combat], supercaps, tech 2 production lines, faction standings, and the rest of the advantages that older players have and it really starts to add up, even without ridiculous pre-requisites.
This goes against the entire mantra of higher skill points meaning "more versitility or a slight advantage" instead of "just plain better".
Relax fellas, I'm pretty sure they'll drop it to 4 or something like they did with salvaging... Poor Rath, I think he was the only person in the game who trained survey to 5
Yeah, hopefully a pre-nerf is the reason, because otherwise they've obviously been smoking some thing. I understand the fear of having the scourge of nano-bs's arising again, but really, the easy solution to making sure no one is making "win button" set ups is to make sure that the higher tier modules have serious diminishing returns in repair costs when overloaded. Heat should be a poor man's named module, not a rich man's luxury. Why the hell couldn't they just make the requirement Energy Management 4?
Heat should be a poor man's named module, not a rich man's luxury. Why the hell couldn't they just make the requirement Energy Management 4?
Yeah, that's a good argument. They likened it to overclocking in one of the dev posts or something, but who overclocks expensive, high end equipment? The reason you overclock something is to get more out of older kit. It should still involve some skill though, but not skills so high that you're likely to be rolling in dough and able to afford the expensive kit anyway.
Maybe they should make it so that T2 modules can't be overheated? That way you have the choice of training up a tough skill so you can melt out cheap T1 equipment for more or less the same gain as someone else who has trained up some skills and spent a lot of money on T2 modules that don't need replaced every third cycle.
Although that said, T2 modules still probably take more time and money to train and fit than training up Thermodynamics and fitting T1 mods, so there's still an advantage for cheap/new players I think.
That would actually be a good compromise though since then there's a definite advantage (probably pending a few tweaks to the burn out rate on modules though).
Speaking of dumb, their anti-POS spam rules have already been circumvented, good times.
Seriously. Their POS spam solution makes me think they'd listen to retards who think that the way to fix Titans is to only allow one per alliance in system, or one DD per alliance per hour, or one Titan per alliance.
Dumbasses, THEY WILL JUST MAKE HOLDING ALLIANCES, YOU ARE RETARDED AND YOUR FIX IS RETARDED
at first I read that as 'YOU ARE RETARDED AND FIX IS RETARDED'
So, I am now an EVE subscriber. Seems like a pretty good time to resubscribe. Like the new ship graphics.
Anyways, let's see what has happened recently...got a harsh re-reminder of "YOU DO NOT FUCKING RAT IN LOWSEC YOU FUCKING TARD". Also, finally trained Cruiser. I hear the rupture is like the most fuckawesome cruiser ever. Until I get the skilled trained, I'm thinking of using a Bellicose.
So what's the deal with that exploit in the news feed? Remote repping starbase structures as a neutral is an exploit? Considering I know nothing about starbases, I don't understand that at all.
So what's the deal with that exploit in the news feed? Remote repping starbase structures as a neutral is an exploit? Considering I know nothing about starbases, I don't understand that at all.
It's empire war bullshit. If you remote rep a starbase when you're not in the warring alliance, you don't show up as a war target and people either lose sec for shooting you, or are concorded for shooting you if you have a hisec pos or if you are chased into hisec. It's a dumb mechanic and a good thing that it's an exploit, but doesn't directly apply to very many of us.
So what's the deal with that exploit in the news feed? Remote repping starbase structures as a neutral is an exploit? Considering I know nothing about starbases, I don't understand that at all.
It's empire war bullshit. If you remote rep a starbase when you're not in the warring alliance, you don't show up as a war target and people either lose sec for shooting you, or are concorded for shooting you if you have a hisec pos or if you are chased into hisec. It's a dumb mechanic and a good thing that it's an exploit, but doesn't directly apply to very many of us.
Actually, since it doesn't say it just applies to empire, it means us Merchies can't rep goon starbases. Nevermind that it makes absolutely no sense (There are no neutrals in 0.0, and if there were MerchI sure wouldn't be one of them), by the letter of the law we'd get banned for helping our allies.
So what's the deal with that exploit in the news feed? Remote repping starbase structures as a neutral is an exploit? Considering I know nothing about starbases, I don't understand that at all.
It's empire war bullshit. If you remote rep a starbase when you're not in the warring alliance, you don't show up as a war target and people either lose sec for shooting you, or are concorded for shooting you if you have a hisec pos or if you are chased into hisec. It's a dumb mechanic and a good thing that it's an exploit, but doesn't directly apply to very many of us.
Actually, since it doesn't say it just applies to empire, it means us Merchies can't rep goon starbases. Nevermind that it makes absolutely no sense (There are no neutrals in 0.0, and if there were MerchI sure wouldn't be one of them), by the letter of the law we'd get banned for helping our allies.
That can't be right, because there is no official declaration of "war" in 0.0, and for all intents and purposes, MerchI is just as much at war with BoB as Goonfleet is.
Mono pines away for someone to participate in his erotic ALF fanfics.
And fucking christ, jita hits over 800 bitches in local and I cannot log in with my hauler girl. Modules need to be moved, carrier jumped, and fit to ships so I can go blow crap up. I also need to start refilling my sell orders on frigates, man people like to get themselves blown up in Taranis' and buy another one at stupidly marked up prices.
Edit: I also think that the only reason to rat in SP is to get modules so I can refine and make myself t1 frigates. I should make sure to buy a Light Ion Blaster and 125mm Railgun bpo's before shipping everything down south.
Posts
Bullshit, its a low end skill that fucks over low skillpointed characters for no reason, further increasing the skillpoint divide.
When is that due to happen?
"Fucking them over" is arguable. Heat complicates an already complicated combat system. You can make it worse for yourself by overheating your guns and not knowing what you're doing than not using heat at all.
also considering the amount of times I accidentally hit the goddamn heat button last night, I don't know if I'll ever pick up the Thermodynamics skillbook
You know you can lock heat to always be off, even if you hit the button, right? It's in the same little menu as absolute readout.
Protecting people from themselves is hardly a compelling argument to require 20+ days of skill training for a newb to access something that is so right god damn there on the ship UI. The argument that everyone should have EM 5 is also kind of lame - let people decide that, don't try and railroad them into it by putting some other bullshit up there (and it is bullshit anyway, Sisi adequately demonstrated that Heat is more or less worthless in almost all situations).
At the point you don't have EM 5, almost any other combat skill will be more worthwhile for about the same amount of time invested unless you're Amarr or something.
"Requisite" skills suck, and there should be less of them in EVE since every time one is added you basically raise the barriers to start playing the game. If they're worried about Tech 3 - well firstly Tech 3 being Heat-based will be incredibly stupid, but there's nothing stopping them adding high pre-req's to T3 stuff.
And yeah, it's 'only' 15 days. Too bad I'd like to spend those 15 getting Cruiser V 3/5s of the way done, which would be a hell of a lot more useful to me.
But surely it's better, from an economy of skill training POV, to just have two or three high pre-reqs for the skill that opens up access to T3 modules rather than having every T3 module have it's own set of high pre-reqs?
I don't really see this as being such a big deal, personally. It makes sense from a logical perspective that being able to do something like fucking with the internal workings of your ship and it's modules to Overclock them should involve some pretty in-depth skill and knowledge. Perhaps the real issue here is that they've made it such an ovbvious 'thing I don't have' by putting the button on the interface regardless of whether you have the ability to use it or not.
This is the other thing i don't get. If it isn't useful, why bother getting uppity about the pre-reqs anyway? Just ignore it.
Huggins web out to 90km, Inties zoom at 20km+/s, Lachesis scrams to an ungodly range, and it's a pretty nice boost to blaster boats (heat web for 1 cycle to get within normal web range, then turn it off).
I'm digging it so far, though I only played with it on Sisi.
Also, can someone please post the req skills for bombs? At work now and I forgot to look last night.
T3 will almost certainly require other skills for whatever they add, since it's been the pattern with every other T2 thing. There's no specific reason to do it this way, and for the effort and generality that's gone into putting this in, as well as their various statements about it's intended operation, it just doesn't make sense (as well as the way it actually works).
The thing is, there's no value to Heat if you're flying a T2 setup for what's far more likely to happen (modules popping, you die because you can't do X anymore). The only time that would be useful is if you're in a close fight...but that's true of any time in any close fight that ever happens.
The difference though where it's highly accessible is that it makes hitting more cheaply or lower SP fitted ships a bit more interesting because it gives an intelligent pilot in them the opportunity to do something unexpected for at least 1 cycle of module.
But, thanks to the skill pre-reqs, this isn't what will happen because before EM 5 there's about a million other things which overall will give you a lot more benefit (including the other cap skill, which is quicker and easier to train and I believe I have it at 5 already).
EDIT: I don't know why this issue has me so riled up.
EDIT: You also kind of highlight my point - why implement something purely to make ships with good bonus' a hell of a lot better (thanks to the magic of % modifiers)?
I didn't know it had changed
It's dumb and CCP is dumb.
Speaking of dumb, their anti-POS spam rules have already been circumvented, good times.
Seriously. Their POS spam solution makes me think they'd listen to retards who think that the way to fix Titans is to only allow one per alliance in system, or one DD per alliance per hour, or one Titan per alliance.
Dumbasses, THEY WILL JUST MAKE HOLDING ALLIANCES, YOU ARE RETARDED AND YOUR FIX IS RETARDED
Furthermore, Goum's suggested POS change is actually a pretty fantastic one and would be a satisfactory solution to POS spam.
nope, i have hardly any ISK. Also, what T3 equipment is coming along? I had a look on the 'new stuff' on Eve-O, but didn't see much directly mentioning that.
Oh yeah, I should say that while I'm defending the pre-reqs I still find the whole addition and concept of overheating "stick two wires in it and it'll power a clock" dumb.
Not this abortion.
This goes against the entire mantra of higher skill points meaning "more versitility or a slight advantage" instead of "just plain better".
Yeah, that's a good argument. They likened it to overclocking in one of the dev posts or something, but who overclocks expensive, high end equipment? The reason you overclock something is to get more out of older kit. It should still involve some skill though, but not skills so high that you're likely to be rolling in dough and able to afford the expensive kit anyway.
Maybe they should make it so that T2 modules can't be overheated? That way you have the choice of training up a tough skill so you can melt out cheap T1 equipment for more or less the same gain as someone else who has trained up some skills and spent a lot of money on T2 modules that don't need replaced every third cycle.
Although that said, T2 modules still probably take more time and money to train and fit than training up Thermodynamics and fitting T1 mods, so there's still an advantage for cheap/new players I think.
James, this needs to be sig'd for posterity
at first I read that as 'YOU ARE RETARDED AND FIX IS RETARDED'
but that's also true so
Anyways, let's see what has happened recently...got a harsh re-reminder of "YOU DO NOT FUCKING RAT IN LOWSEC YOU FUCKING TARD". Also, finally trained Cruiser. I hear the rupture is like the most fuckawesome cruiser ever. Until I get the skilled trained, I'm thinking of using a Bellicose.
Where?
Also, james title should be changed to "huge forum whore"
It's empire war bullshit. If you remote rep a starbase when you're not in the warring alliance, you don't show up as a war target and people either lose sec for shooting you, or are concorded for shooting you if you have a hisec pos or if you are chased into hisec. It's a dumb mechanic and a good thing that it's an exploit, but doesn't directly apply to very many of us.
Actually, since it doesn't say it just applies to empire, it means us Merchies can't rep goon starbases. Nevermind that it makes absolutely no sense (There are no neutrals in 0.0, and if there were MerchI sure wouldn't be one of them), by the letter of the law we'd get banned for helping our allies.
That can't be right, because there is no official declaration of "war" in 0.0, and for all intents and purposes, MerchI is just as much at war with BoB as Goonfleet is.
He should PM me.
Nobody wants to cyber with you in PMs.
someone will
And fucking christ, jita hits over 800 bitches in local and I cannot log in with my hauler girl. Modules need to be moved, carrier jumped, and fit to ships so I can go blow crap up. I also need to start refilling my sell orders on frigates, man people like to get themselves blown up in Taranis' and buy another one at stupidly marked up prices.
Edit: I also think that the only reason to rat in SP is to get modules so I can refine and make myself t1 frigates. I should make sure to buy a Light Ion Blaster and 125mm Railgun bpo's before shipping everything down south.