Absolutely gutting for Vettel. Unfortunately it's a technical infringement so an open and shut DSQ.
There is a very small bit of hope remaining with Ason Martin lodging an intent to appeal. They argue that they have 1.44L remaining in the car (by their calculations at least, they're probably pretty accurate though), they just can't get it out. This alone probably wouldn't save them as the rule requires that the fuel is available 'at any time'. The scrutineers requested it, gave AM plenty of time to extract it, but they were unable to. The only possible avenue is that AM say the lift pump in the car failed, which is what prevented the fuel sample from being available. If they're able to get the sample out of the car and prove that it was a result of equiptment failure then perhaps the FIA would allow it?
If he is that gassed and near collapse on the podium - how is he doing in the car? If that is really long covid, should he be even driving? What happens if he is that exhausted in the final laps of the race?
If he is that gassed and near collapse on the podium - how is he doing in the car? If that is really long covid, should he be even driving? What happens if he is that exhausted in the final laps of the race?
It made me think of Senna in Brazil '91. Won the race in a wounded car (stuck in one gear) and was so exhausted from the effort he could barely stand afterwards. You could see on his face just how much of an effort it was to lift the trophy.
That said, immediately after getting out of the car, Lewis didn't seem too bad - it was a few minutes later it really seemed to hit him.
Bottas is making a compelling case that he shouldn't be driving a Mercedes, though
I like Bottas...but he's been making this case pretty strongly all year.
He's bad in the wet. I can't think of a single good wet race from Bottas, and the last threee have been disasters:
Hungary 2021 - crashed into the back of Norris
Imola 2021 - crashed when fighting a Williams for 9th
Turkey 2020 - Lost count of how many times he spun.
I don't think it gets much better if you go further back either. Unfortunately for Bottas, he has highlighted his downsides just as we go into a summer break where he's likely to be looking for a new seat.
The start was what it was. Bottas and Stroll both messed up their braking and caused the chain reaction of events. It's unfortunate to lose so many good drivers in the process and doubtless frustrating for those affected, but that’s what can happen in a wet start. Both got a 5 place grid drop which is more or less what I’d expect. In the end, the biggest winners off the start were those that were far enough back to avoid the mayhem. Latifi in particular stood out as that's when he got well up the running order.
The start did show up some of Bottas biggest weaknesses of late though. He had a rubbish start being passed by both Perez and Norris. He’s also pretty rubbish in the wet.
I notice virtually no calls to change the rules around repairing under red flags this week, but then again it didn't benefit Hamilton this week so I guess that's where the difference lies. Events like today show why you're allowed to repair under a red flag without penalty. It's entirely possible to take damage through no fault of your own - especially in incidents significant enough to cause a red flag.
The second start is going to be one of those lasting images in F1. I don't think we'll ever see another one car start again. While Mercedes did screw up (Hamilton said afterwards that he'd been told there was more rain coming), I think they were screwed either way. As Russell pointed out after, if he comes in immediately then he gets held int he pit box because they're right at the entry and have to wait for the train to pass before they can release. In the time they spend waiting, somebody further down will have completed the stop and have jumped them. Probably still better than ending up last mind. Hamilton starting on the grid probably saved the FIA a few blushes as well. After all, how do you do a zero car standing start? Do you still do the lights on the grid? When do you release the cars starting from the pit when there's no grid starters to pass them? It's one of those things the rules don't really account for because it should never happen. There's just so much that assumes cars will actually be on the grid. Likewise the FIA would probably want to avoid the same happening again for safety reasons. Having every car competing in the pit lane at the same time is far from ideal and carries a lot of risk. I don't know how you'd prevent any of this though. After all, how do you deal with literally every team putting on the wrong tyre on a red flag restart?
Honestly, at this point I have no idea how Ocon and Vettel got up to P1&2. All credit to them, they do manage to pull a gap (helped by Latifi) and maintain it to the end. I think Vettel was probably the quicker of the two given that he could stay within 2s literally all race, but with the Hungaroring as it is passing is near impossible without significant speed difference. There's only really options at T1&2, with outside chances at T3&4. After that you're suffering dirty air all the way to the start of the lap again. I wonder if a two stop could have worked for Vettel? Seemed to be the way to make use of better race pace by closing the gap quickly and arriving with much better tyres.
Aside from the restart debacle, it was a really strong race for Hamilton. Last to third on a track with very limited overtaking opportunities is impressive - and but for Alonso it could have been last to first. I'm still amazed at how quickly he bridged the gap between Sainz and Vettel in the closing laps. If he gets ahead of Alonso 3 laps earlier, I could easily see him making it past. The actual fight with Alonso was a masterclass from both. Alonso with very hard but largely fair defending, Hamilton measuring his approach and not taking excess risk. There were quite a few times where he could have tried the outside but backed out of the move rather than risk being forced off.
I was concerned seeing Hamiton struggle on the podium afterwards. He was clearly exhaused and could barely stand. Turned out he was suffering from fatigue and dizziness and had to be taken to the team doctor afterwards. More concerning is that when interviewed afterward, he revealed that he has been struggling with fitness since contracting covid and is likely still feeling the effects of it.
We also saw the first Williams points of the year! And a double points finish at that! It's one of those bizarre twists that Latifi ended up scoring more points than Russell. That they both scored is a great result for Williams as it puts them in eigth ahead of both Haas and Alfa Romeo.
That was a lot more than I expected to be writing about a Hungarian GP really!
RE: Zero cars doing the standing start after red. The race director determines what kind of start they're going to have, so I assume if they saw that they could decide to have the safety car come out and do another lap and then have either a standing or rolling start with the cars in the positions as they exited the pits after their stops?
Hey guys, please don't wish potentially fatal crashes on people because of some reason I'm definitely not going to find enough of a justification when discussing rich guy racing.
The start was what it was. Bottas and Stroll both messed up their braking and caused the chain reaction of events. It's unfortunate to lose so many good drivers in the process and doubtless frustrating for those affected, but that’s what can happen in a wet start. Both got a 5 place grid drop which is more or less what I’d expect. In the end, the biggest winners off the start were those that were far enough back to avoid the mayhem. Latifi in particular stood out as that's when he got well up the running order.
The start did show up some of Bottas biggest weaknesses of late though. He had a rubbish start being passed by both Perez and Norris. He’s also pretty rubbish in the wet.
I notice virtually no calls to change the rules around repairing under red flags this week, but then again it didn't benefit Hamilton this week so I guess that's where the difference lies. Events like today show why you're allowed to repair under a red flag without penalty. It's entirely possible to take damage through no fault of your own - especially in incidents significant enough to cause a red flag.
The second start is going to be one of those lasting images in F1. I don't think we'll ever see another one car start again. While Mercedes did screw up (Hamilton said afterwards that he'd been told there was more rain coming), I think they were screwed either way. As Russell pointed out after, if he comes in immediately then he gets held int he pit box because they're right at the entry and have to wait for the train to pass before they can release. In the time they spend waiting, somebody further down will have completed the stop and have jumped them. Probably still better than ending up last mind. Hamilton starting on the grid probably saved the FIA a few blushes as well. After all, how do you do a zero car standing start? Do you still do the lights on the grid? When do you release the cars starting from the pit when there's no grid starters to pass them? It's one of those things the rules don't really account for because it should never happen. There's just so much that assumes cars will actually be on the grid. Likewise the FIA would probably want to avoid the same happening again for safety reasons. Having every car competing in the pit lane at the same time is far from ideal and carries a lot of risk. I don't know how you'd prevent any of this though. After all, how do you deal with literally every team putting on the wrong tyre on a red flag restart?
Honestly, at this point I have no idea how Ocon and Vettel got up to P1&2. All credit to them, they do manage to pull a gap (helped by Latifi) and maintain it to the end. I think Vettel was probably the quicker of the two given that he could stay within 2s literally all race, but with the Hungaroring as it is passing is near impossible without significant speed difference. There's only really options at T1&2, with outside chances at T3&4. After that you're suffering dirty air all the way to the start of the lap again. I wonder if a two stop could have worked for Vettel? Seemed to be the way to make use of better race pace by closing the gap quickly and arriving with much better tyres.
Aside from the restart debacle, it was a really strong race for Hamilton. Last to third on a track with very limited overtaking opportunities is impressive - and but for Alonso it could have been last to first. I'm still amazed at how quickly he bridged the gap between Sainz and Vettel in the closing laps. If he gets ahead of Alonso 3 laps earlier, I could easily see him making it past. The actual fight with Alonso was a masterclass from both. Alonso with very hard but largely fair defending, Hamilton measuring his approach and not taking excess risk. There were quite a few times where he could have tried the outside but backed out of the move rather than risk being forced off.
I was concerned seeing Hamiton struggle on the podium afterwards. He was clearly exhaused and could barely stand. Turned out he was suffering from fatigue and dizziness and had to be taken to the team doctor afterwards. More concerning is that when interviewed afterward, he revealed that he has been struggling with fitness since contracting covid and is likely still feeling the effects of it.
We also saw the first Williams points of the year! And a double points finish at that! It's one of those bizarre twists that Latifi ended up scoring more points than Russell. That they both scored is a great result for Williams as it puts them in eigth ahead of both Haas and Alfa Romeo.
That was a lot more than I expected to be writing about a Hungarian GP really!
RE: Zero cars doing the standing start after red. The race director determines what kind of start they're going to have, so I assume if they saw that they could decide to have the safety car come out and do another lap and then have either a standing or rolling start with the cars in the positions as they exited the pits after their stops?
Problem is that the start is called half way around the lap. He'd already called standing start, SC had pulled away and into the pits while Hamilton led what was then a normal formation lap. Everyone else decided to pit after that. I suppose he could have called an aborted start, forced another formation lap and had them all start from the grid? The order would still have been more or less a lottery on pit box location though. If he'd called a rolling start, it would have cost those pitting a lot more time (possibly allowing Hamilton to get around and stay in the top 3-5), but there was no reason to do that in the conditions.
Thinking about it, there was probably a relatively easy way to prevent this happening int he first place. Or at least reduce the chance of it happening. The root cause is really that teams knew the start/finish was dry, but had no way to tell the state of the rest of the track. They didn't want to send their cars out on slicks in case there was a massive amount of standing water somewhere down the back of the track (I assume this is the reason at least). Sending the Safety/Medical car out for a recon lap could have given enough info to go onto slicks from the start and avoid a packed pit lane. I think they've done similar in the past, but usually just a "is the track safe to drive?" thing. It was a very unusual situation where the track dried entirely before they went back out.
The start was what it was. Bottas and Stroll both messed up their braking and caused the chain reaction of events. It's unfortunate to lose so many good drivers in the process and doubtless frustrating for those affected, but that’s what can happen in a wet start. Both got a 5 place grid drop which is more or less what I’d expect. In the end, the biggest winners off the start were those that were far enough back to avoid the mayhem. Latifi in particular stood out as that's when he got well up the running order.
The start did show up some of Bottas biggest weaknesses of late though. He had a rubbish start being passed by both Perez and Norris. He’s also pretty rubbish in the wet.
I notice virtually no calls to change the rules around repairing under red flags this week, but then again it didn't benefit Hamilton this week so I guess that's where the difference lies. Events like today show why you're allowed to repair under a red flag without penalty. It's entirely possible to take damage through no fault of your own - especially in incidents significant enough to cause a red flag.
The second start is going to be one of those lasting images in F1. I don't think we'll ever see another one car start again. While Mercedes did screw up (Hamilton said afterwards that he'd been told there was more rain coming), I think they were screwed either way. As Russell pointed out after, if he comes in immediately then he gets held int he pit box because they're right at the entry and have to wait for the train to pass before they can release. In the time they spend waiting, somebody further down will have completed the stop and have jumped them. Probably still better than ending up last mind. Hamilton starting on the grid probably saved the FIA a few blushes as well. After all, how do you do a zero car standing start? Do you still do the lights on the grid? When do you release the cars starting from the pit when there's no grid starters to pass them? It's one of those things the rules don't really account for because it should never happen. There's just so much that assumes cars will actually be on the grid. Likewise the FIA would probably want to avoid the same happening again for safety reasons. Having every car competing in the pit lane at the same time is far from ideal and carries a lot of risk. I don't know how you'd prevent any of this though. After all, how do you deal with literally every team putting on the wrong tyre on a red flag restart?
Honestly, at this point I have no idea how Ocon and Vettel got up to P1&2. All credit to them, they do manage to pull a gap (helped by Latifi) and maintain it to the end. I think Vettel was probably the quicker of the two given that he could stay within 2s literally all race, but with the Hungaroring as it is passing is near impossible without significant speed difference. There's only really options at T1&2, with outside chances at T3&4. After that you're suffering dirty air all the way to the start of the lap again. I wonder if a two stop could have worked for Vettel? Seemed to be the way to make use of better race pace by closing the gap quickly and arriving with much better tyres.
Aside from the restart debacle, it was a really strong race for Hamilton. Last to third on a track with very limited overtaking opportunities is impressive - and but for Alonso it could have been last to first. I'm still amazed at how quickly he bridged the gap between Sainz and Vettel in the closing laps. If he gets ahead of Alonso 3 laps earlier, I could easily see him making it past. The actual fight with Alonso was a masterclass from both. Alonso with very hard but largely fair defending, Hamilton measuring his approach and not taking excess risk. There were quite a few times where he could have tried the outside but backed out of the move rather than risk being forced off.
I was concerned seeing Hamiton struggle on the podium afterwards. He was clearly exhaused and could barely stand. Turned out he was suffering from fatigue and dizziness and had to be taken to the team doctor afterwards. More concerning is that when interviewed afterward, he revealed that he has been struggling with fitness since contracting covid and is likely still feeling the effects of it.
We also saw the first Williams points of the year! And a double points finish at that! It's one of those bizarre twists that Latifi ended up scoring more points than Russell. That they both scored is a great result for Williams as it puts them in eigth ahead of both Haas and Alfa Romeo.
That was a lot more than I expected to be writing about a Hungarian GP really!
RE: Zero cars doing the standing start after red. The race director determines what kind of start they're going to have, so I assume if they saw that they could decide to have the safety car come out and do another lap and then have either a standing or rolling start with the cars in the positions as they exited the pits after their stops?
Problem is that the start is called half way around the lap. He'd already called standing start, SC had pulled away and into the pits while Hamilton led what was then a normal formation lap. Everyone else decided to pit after that. I suppose he could have called an aborted start, forced another formation lap and had them all start from the grid? The order would still have been more or less a lottery on pit box location though. If he'd called a rolling start, it would have cost those pitting a lot more time (possibly allowing Hamilton to get around and stay in the top 3-5), but there was no reason to do that in the conditions.
Thinking about it, there was probably a relatively easy way to prevent this happening int he first place. Or at least reduce the chance of it happening. The root cause is really that teams knew the start/finish was dry, but had no way to tell the state of the rest of the track. They didn't want to send their cars out on slicks in case there was a massive amount of standing water somewhere down the back of the track (I assume this is the reason at least). Sending the Safety/Medical car out for a recon lap could have given enough info to go onto slicks from the start and avoid a packed pit lane. I think they've done similar in the past, but usually just a "is the track safe to drive?" thing. It was a very unusual situation where the track dried entirely before they went back out.
I'm a little surprised none of the back marker teams went out on slicks just to be different. In the past Haas has done that kind of thing a lot, but I think there's decent cases for a lot of teams to have tried it. I was trying to see the positions on the restart, but I can't find them. Anyway, I think Haas, and Alpha Romero and Williams all could have tried it. Obviously, things worked out for Williams the way they did it, but I still think that's the kind of risk you need to take for a team in their position.
The start was what it was. Bottas and Stroll both messed up their braking and caused the chain reaction of events. It's unfortunate to lose so many good drivers in the process and doubtless frustrating for those affected, but that’s what can happen in a wet start. Both got a 5 place grid drop which is more or less what I’d expect. In the end, the biggest winners off the start were those that were far enough back to avoid the mayhem. Latifi in particular stood out as that's when he got well up the running order.
The start did show up some of Bottas biggest weaknesses of late though. He had a rubbish start being passed by both Perez and Norris. He’s also pretty rubbish in the wet.
I notice virtually no calls to change the rules around repairing under red flags this week, but then again it didn't benefit Hamilton this week so I guess that's where the difference lies. Events like today show why you're allowed to repair under a red flag without penalty. It's entirely possible to take damage through no fault of your own - especially in incidents significant enough to cause a red flag.
The second start is going to be one of those lasting images in F1. I don't think we'll ever see another one car start again. While Mercedes did screw up (Hamilton said afterwards that he'd been told there was more rain coming), I think they were screwed either way. As Russell pointed out after, if he comes in immediately then he gets held int he pit box because they're right at the entry and have to wait for the train to pass before they can release. In the time they spend waiting, somebody further down will have completed the stop and have jumped them. Probably still better than ending up last mind. Hamilton starting on the grid probably saved the FIA a few blushes as well. After all, how do you do a zero car standing start? Do you still do the lights on the grid? When do you release the cars starting from the pit when there's no grid starters to pass them? It's one of those things the rules don't really account for because it should never happen. There's just so much that assumes cars will actually be on the grid. Likewise the FIA would probably want to avoid the same happening again for safety reasons. Having every car competing in the pit lane at the same time is far from ideal and carries a lot of risk. I don't know how you'd prevent any of this though. After all, how do you deal with literally every team putting on the wrong tyre on a red flag restart?
Honestly, at this point I have no idea how Ocon and Vettel got up to P1&2. All credit to them, they do manage to pull a gap (helped by Latifi) and maintain it to the end. I think Vettel was probably the quicker of the two given that he could stay within 2s literally all race, but with the Hungaroring as it is passing is near impossible without significant speed difference. There's only really options at T1&2, with outside chances at T3&4. After that you're suffering dirty air all the way to the start of the lap again. I wonder if a two stop could have worked for Vettel? Seemed to be the way to make use of better race pace by closing the gap quickly and arriving with much better tyres.
Aside from the restart debacle, it was a really strong race for Hamilton. Last to third on a track with very limited overtaking opportunities is impressive - and but for Alonso it could have been last to first. I'm still amazed at how quickly he bridged the gap between Sainz and Vettel in the closing laps. If he gets ahead of Alonso 3 laps earlier, I could easily see him making it past. The actual fight with Alonso was a masterclass from both. Alonso with very hard but largely fair defending, Hamilton measuring his approach and not taking excess risk. There were quite a few times where he could have tried the outside but backed out of the move rather than risk being forced off.
I was concerned seeing Hamiton struggle on the podium afterwards. He was clearly exhaused and could barely stand. Turned out he was suffering from fatigue and dizziness and had to be taken to the team doctor afterwards. More concerning is that when interviewed afterward, he revealed that he has been struggling with fitness since contracting covid and is likely still feeling the effects of it.
We also saw the first Williams points of the year! And a double points finish at that! It's one of those bizarre twists that Latifi ended up scoring more points than Russell. That they both scored is a great result for Williams as it puts them in eigth ahead of both Haas and Alfa Romeo.
That was a lot more than I expected to be writing about a Hungarian GP really!
RE: Zero cars doing the standing start after red. The race director determines what kind of start they're going to have, so I assume if they saw that they could decide to have the safety car come out and do another lap and then have either a standing or rolling start with the cars in the positions as they exited the pits after their stops?
Problem is that the start is called half way around the lap. He'd already called standing start, SC had pulled away and into the pits while Hamilton led what was then a normal formation lap. Everyone else decided to pit after that. I suppose he could have called an aborted start, forced another formation lap and had them all start from the grid? The order would still have been more or less a lottery on pit box location though. If he'd called a rolling start, it would have cost those pitting a lot more time (possibly allowing Hamilton to get around and stay in the top 3-5), but there was no reason to do that in the conditions.
Thinking about it, there was probably a relatively easy way to prevent this happening int he first place. Or at least reduce the chance of it happening. The root cause is really that teams knew the start/finish was dry, but had no way to tell the state of the rest of the track. They didn't want to send their cars out on slicks in case there was a massive amount of standing water somewhere down the back of the track (I assume this is the reason at least). Sending the Safety/Medical car out for a recon lap could have given enough info to go onto slicks from the start and avoid a packed pit lane. I think they've done similar in the past, but usually just a "is the track safe to drive?" thing. It was a very unusual situation where the track dried entirely before they went back out.
I'm a little surprised none of the back marker teams went out on slicks just to be different. In the past Haas has done that kind of thing a lot, but I think there's decent cases for a lot of teams to have tried it. I was trying to see the positions on the restart, but I can't find them. Anyway, I think Haas, and Alpha Romero and Williams all could have tried it. Obviously, things worked out for Williams the way they did it, but I still think that's the kind of risk you need to take for a team in their position.
In retrospect yeah, but I want to say at the time the forecast was for a bit more rain (which never showed up). At least that's what Hamilton said when asked why they didn't change with everyone else. I also think everyone was legitimately surprised at how quickly the track dried.
I'm a little surprised none of the back marker teams went out on slicks just to be different. In the past Haas has done that kind of thing a lot, but I think there's decent cases for a lot of teams to have tried it. I was trying to see the positions on the restart, but I can't find them. Anyway, I think Haas, and Alpha Romero and Williams all could have tried it. Obviously, things worked out for Williams the way they did it, but I still think that's the kind of risk you need to take for a team in their position.
They actually had something to lose this time around though. Five cars were out already, all of them front runners (six when Mazepin's suspension was broken by a collision in the pit lane(!), but he's basically always last anyway). It's the sort of points scoring opportunity that only happens once in a season, if even. Expecially as you can hold position with a slow car at the Hungaroring. The risk of sending them out on dry tyres onto an unknown track is that they hit standing water and slide straight into the barrier. Race over. I can understand a degree of caution when there's a prize on offer.
The start was what it was. Bottas and Stroll both messed up their braking and caused the chain reaction of events. It's unfortunate to lose so many good drivers in the process and doubtless frustrating for those affected, but that’s what can happen in a wet start. Both got a 5 place grid drop which is more or less what I’d expect. In the end, the biggest winners off the start were those that were far enough back to avoid the mayhem. Latifi in particular stood out as that's when he got well up the running order.
The start did show up some of Bottas biggest weaknesses of late though. He had a rubbish start being passed by both Perez and Norris. He’s also pretty rubbish in the wet.
I notice virtually no calls to change the rules around repairing under red flags this week, but then again it didn't benefit Hamilton this week so I guess that's where the difference lies. Events like today show why you're allowed to repair under a red flag without penalty. It's entirely possible to take damage through no fault of your own - especially in incidents significant enough to cause a red flag.
The second start is going to be one of those lasting images in F1. I don't think we'll ever see another one car start again. While Mercedes did screw up (Hamilton said afterwards that he'd been told there was more rain coming), I think they were screwed either way. As Russell pointed out after, if he comes in immediately then he gets held int he pit box because they're right at the entry and have to wait for the train to pass before they can release. In the time they spend waiting, somebody further down will have completed the stop and have jumped them. Probably still better than ending up last mind. Hamilton starting on the grid probably saved the FIA a few blushes as well. After all, how do you do a zero car standing start? Do you still do the lights on the grid? When do you release the cars starting from the pit when there's no grid starters to pass them? It's one of those things the rules don't really account for because it should never happen. There's just so much that assumes cars will actually be on the grid. Likewise the FIA would probably want to avoid the same happening again for safety reasons. Having every car competing in the pit lane at the same time is far from ideal and carries a lot of risk. I don't know how you'd prevent any of this though. After all, how do you deal with literally every team putting on the wrong tyre on a red flag restart?
Honestly, at this point I have no idea how Ocon and Vettel got up to P1&2. All credit to them, they do manage to pull a gap (helped by Latifi) and maintain it to the end. I think Vettel was probably the quicker of the two given that he could stay within 2s literally all race, but with the Hungaroring as it is passing is near impossible without significant speed difference. There's only really options at T1&2, with outside chances at T3&4. After that you're suffering dirty air all the way to the start of the lap again. I wonder if a two stop could have worked for Vettel? Seemed to be the way to make use of better race pace by closing the gap quickly and arriving with much better tyres.
Aside from the restart debacle, it was a really strong race for Hamilton. Last to third on a track with very limited overtaking opportunities is impressive - and but for Alonso it could have been last to first. I'm still amazed at how quickly he bridged the gap between Sainz and Vettel in the closing laps. If he gets ahead of Alonso 3 laps earlier, I could easily see him making it past. The actual fight with Alonso was a masterclass from both. Alonso with very hard but largely fair defending, Hamilton measuring his approach and not taking excess risk. There were quite a few times where he could have tried the outside but backed out of the move rather than risk being forced off.
I was concerned seeing Hamiton struggle on the podium afterwards. He was clearly exhaused and could barely stand. Turned out he was suffering from fatigue and dizziness and had to be taken to the team doctor afterwards. More concerning is that when interviewed afterward, he revealed that he has been struggling with fitness since contracting covid and is likely still feeling the effects of it.
We also saw the first Williams points of the year! And a double points finish at that! It's one of those bizarre twists that Latifi ended up scoring more points than Russell. That they both scored is a great result for Williams as it puts them in eigth ahead of both Haas and Alfa Romeo.
That was a lot more than I expected to be writing about a Hungarian GP really!
RE: Zero cars doing the standing start after red. The race director determines what kind of start they're going to have, so I assume if they saw that they could decide to have the safety car come out and do another lap and then have either a standing or rolling start with the cars in the positions as they exited the pits after their stops?
Problem is that the start is called half way around the lap. He'd already called standing start, SC had pulled away and into the pits while Hamilton led what was then a normal formation lap. Everyone else decided to pit after that. I suppose he could have called an aborted start, forced another formation lap and had them all start from the grid? The order would still have been more or less a lottery on pit box location though. If he'd called a rolling start, it would have cost those pitting a lot more time (possibly allowing Hamilton to get around and stay in the top 3-5), but there was no reason to do that in the conditions.
Thinking about it, there was probably a relatively easy way to prevent this happening int he first place. Or at least reduce the chance of it happening. The root cause is really that teams knew the start/finish was dry, but had no way to tell the state of the rest of the track. They didn't want to send their cars out on slicks in case there was a massive amount of standing water somewhere down the back of the track (I assume this is the reason at least). Sending the Safety/Medical car out for a recon lap could have given enough info to go onto slicks from the start and avoid a packed pit lane. I think they've done similar in the past, but usually just a "is the track safe to drive?" thing. It was a very unusual situation where the track dried entirely before they went back out.
I'm a little surprised none of the back marker teams went out on slicks just to be different. In the past Haas has done that kind of thing a lot, but I think there's decent cases for a lot of teams to have tried it. I was trying to see the positions on the restart, but I can't find them. Anyway, I think Haas, and Alpha Romero and Williams all could have tried it. Obviously, things worked out for Williams the way they did it, but I still think that's the kind of risk you need to take for a team in their position.
In retrospect yeah, but I want to say at the time the forecast was for a bit more rain (which never showed up). At least that's what Hamilton said when asked why they didn't change with everyone else. I also think everyone was legitimately surprised at how quickly the track dried.
I'm not disagreeing with the situation, but again if the teams thought there was an 80% chance of more rain then that 20% chance of no rain is still a huge opportunity for a Hass, Alfa Romero or Williams.
The start was what it was. Bottas and Stroll both messed up their braking and caused the chain reaction of events. It's unfortunate to lose so many good drivers in the process and doubtless frustrating for those affected, but that’s what can happen in a wet start. Both got a 5 place grid drop which is more or less what I’d expect. In the end, the biggest winners off the start were those that were far enough back to avoid the mayhem. Latifi in particular stood out as that's when he got well up the running order.
The start did show up some of Bottas biggest weaknesses of late though. He had a rubbish start being passed by both Perez and Norris. He’s also pretty rubbish in the wet.
I notice virtually no calls to change the rules around repairing under red flags this week, but then again it didn't benefit Hamilton this week so I guess that's where the difference lies. Events like today show why you're allowed to repair under a red flag without penalty. It's entirely possible to take damage through no fault of your own - especially in incidents significant enough to cause a red flag.
The second start is going to be one of those lasting images in F1. I don't think we'll ever see another one car start again. While Mercedes did screw up (Hamilton said afterwards that he'd been told there was more rain coming), I think they were screwed either way. As Russell pointed out after, if he comes in immediately then he gets held int he pit box because they're right at the entry and have to wait for the train to pass before they can release. In the time they spend waiting, somebody further down will have completed the stop and have jumped them. Probably still better than ending up last mind. Hamilton starting on the grid probably saved the FIA a few blushes as well. After all, how do you do a zero car standing start? Do you still do the lights on the grid? When do you release the cars starting from the pit when there's no grid starters to pass them? It's one of those things the rules don't really account for because it should never happen. There's just so much that assumes cars will actually be on the grid. Likewise the FIA would probably want to avoid the same happening again for safety reasons. Having every car competing in the pit lane at the same time is far from ideal and carries a lot of risk. I don't know how you'd prevent any of this though. After all, how do you deal with literally every team putting on the wrong tyre on a red flag restart?
Honestly, at this point I have no idea how Ocon and Vettel got up to P1&2. All credit to them, they do manage to pull a gap (helped by Latifi) and maintain it to the end. I think Vettel was probably the quicker of the two given that he could stay within 2s literally all race, but with the Hungaroring as it is passing is near impossible without significant speed difference. There's only really options at T1&2, with outside chances at T3&4. After that you're suffering dirty air all the way to the start of the lap again. I wonder if a two stop could have worked for Vettel? Seemed to be the way to make use of better race pace by closing the gap quickly and arriving with much better tyres.
Aside from the restart debacle, it was a really strong race for Hamilton. Last to third on a track with very limited overtaking opportunities is impressive - and but for Alonso it could have been last to first. I'm still amazed at how quickly he bridged the gap between Sainz and Vettel in the closing laps. If he gets ahead of Alonso 3 laps earlier, I could easily see him making it past. The actual fight with Alonso was a masterclass from both. Alonso with very hard but largely fair defending, Hamilton measuring his approach and not taking excess risk. There were quite a few times where he could have tried the outside but backed out of the move rather than risk being forced off.
I was concerned seeing Hamiton struggle on the podium afterwards. He was clearly exhaused and could barely stand. Turned out he was suffering from fatigue and dizziness and had to be taken to the team doctor afterwards. More concerning is that when interviewed afterward, he revealed that he has been struggling with fitness since contracting covid and is likely still feeling the effects of it.
We also saw the first Williams points of the year! And a double points finish at that! It's one of those bizarre twists that Latifi ended up scoring more points than Russell. That they both scored is a great result for Williams as it puts them in eigth ahead of both Haas and Alfa Romeo.
That was a lot more than I expected to be writing about a Hungarian GP really!
RE: Zero cars doing the standing start after red. The race director determines what kind of start they're going to have, so I assume if they saw that they could decide to have the safety car come out and do another lap and then have either a standing or rolling start with the cars in the positions as they exited the pits after their stops?
Problem is that the start is called half way around the lap. He'd already called standing start, SC had pulled away and into the pits while Hamilton led what was then a normal formation lap. Everyone else decided to pit after that. I suppose he could have called an aborted start, forced another formation lap and had them all start from the grid? The order would still have been more or less a lottery on pit box location though. If he'd called a rolling start, it would have cost those pitting a lot more time (possibly allowing Hamilton to get around and stay in the top 3-5), but there was no reason to do that in the conditions.
Thinking about it, there was probably a relatively easy way to prevent this happening int he first place. Or at least reduce the chance of it happening. The root cause is really that teams knew the start/finish was dry, but had no way to tell the state of the rest of the track. They didn't want to send their cars out on slicks in case there was a massive amount of standing water somewhere down the back of the track (I assume this is the reason at least). Sending the Safety/Medical car out for a recon lap could have given enough info to go onto slicks from the start and avoid a packed pit lane. I think they've done similar in the past, but usually just a "is the track safe to drive?" thing. It was a very unusual situation where the track dried entirely before they went back out.
I'm a little surprised none of the back marker teams went out on slicks just to be different. In the past Haas has done that kind of thing a lot, but I think there's decent cases for a lot of teams to have tried it. I was trying to see the positions on the restart, but I can't find them. Anyway, I think Haas, and Alpha Romero and Williams all could have tried it. Obviously, things worked out for Williams the way they did it, but I still think that's the kind of risk you need to take for a team in their position.
In retrospect yeah, but I want to say at the time the forecast was for a bit more rain (which never showed up). At least that's what Hamilton said when asked why they didn't change with everyone else. I also think everyone was legitimately surprised at how quickly the track dried.
I'm not disagreeing with the situation, but again if the teams thought there was an 80% chance of more rain then that 20% chance of no rain is still a huge opportunity for a Hass, Alfa Romero or Williams.
I think if you're sending cars out on slicks with an 80% chance of rain or a wet track, your drivers and mechanics are going to be very upset with you, not to mention the other teams when your car maybe spins into theirs. The risk probably was not even close to worth it until they knew the track was 100% dry after the formation lap.
The start was what it was. Bottas and Stroll both messed up their braking and caused the chain reaction of events. It's unfortunate to lose so many good drivers in the process and doubtless frustrating for those affected, but that’s what can happen in a wet start. Both got a 5 place grid drop which is more or less what I’d expect. In the end, the biggest winners off the start were those that were far enough back to avoid the mayhem. Latifi in particular stood out as that's when he got well up the running order.
The start did show up some of Bottas biggest weaknesses of late though. He had a rubbish start being passed by both Perez and Norris. He’s also pretty rubbish in the wet.
I notice virtually no calls to change the rules around repairing under red flags this week, but then again it didn't benefit Hamilton this week so I guess that's where the difference lies. Events like today show why you're allowed to repair under a red flag without penalty. It's entirely possible to take damage through no fault of your own - especially in incidents significant enough to cause a red flag.
The second start is going to be one of those lasting images in F1. I don't think we'll ever see another one car start again. While Mercedes did screw up (Hamilton said afterwards that he'd been told there was more rain coming), I think they were screwed either way. As Russell pointed out after, if he comes in immediately then he gets held int he pit box because they're right at the entry and have to wait for the train to pass before they can release. In the time they spend waiting, somebody further down will have completed the stop and have jumped them. Probably still better than ending up last mind. Hamilton starting on the grid probably saved the FIA a few blushes as well. After all, how do you do a zero car standing start? Do you still do the lights on the grid? When do you release the cars starting from the pit when there's no grid starters to pass them? It's one of those things the rules don't really account for because it should never happen. There's just so much that assumes cars will actually be on the grid. Likewise the FIA would probably want to avoid the same happening again for safety reasons. Having every car competing in the pit lane at the same time is far from ideal and carries a lot of risk. I don't know how you'd prevent any of this though. After all, how do you deal with literally every team putting on the wrong tyre on a red flag restart?
Honestly, at this point I have no idea how Ocon and Vettel got up to P1&2. All credit to them, they do manage to pull a gap (helped by Latifi) and maintain it to the end. I think Vettel was probably the quicker of the two given that he could stay within 2s literally all race, but with the Hungaroring as it is passing is near impossible without significant speed difference. There's only really options at T1&2, with outside chances at T3&4. After that you're suffering dirty air all the way to the start of the lap again. I wonder if a two stop could have worked for Vettel? Seemed to be the way to make use of better race pace by closing the gap quickly and arriving with much better tyres.
Aside from the restart debacle, it was a really strong race for Hamilton. Last to third on a track with very limited overtaking opportunities is impressive - and but for Alonso it could have been last to first. I'm still amazed at how quickly he bridged the gap between Sainz and Vettel in the closing laps. If he gets ahead of Alonso 3 laps earlier, I could easily see him making it past. The actual fight with Alonso was a masterclass from both. Alonso with very hard but largely fair defending, Hamilton measuring his approach and not taking excess risk. There were quite a few times where he could have tried the outside but backed out of the move rather than risk being forced off.
I was concerned seeing Hamiton struggle on the podium afterwards. He was clearly exhaused and could barely stand. Turned out he was suffering from fatigue and dizziness and had to be taken to the team doctor afterwards. More concerning is that when interviewed afterward, he revealed that he has been struggling with fitness since contracting covid and is likely still feeling the effects of it.
We also saw the first Williams points of the year! And a double points finish at that! It's one of those bizarre twists that Latifi ended up scoring more points than Russell. That they both scored is a great result for Williams as it puts them in eigth ahead of both Haas and Alfa Romeo.
That was a lot more than I expected to be writing about a Hungarian GP really!
RE: Zero cars doing the standing start after red. The race director determines what kind of start they're going to have, so I assume if they saw that they could decide to have the safety car come out and do another lap and then have either a standing or rolling start with the cars in the positions as they exited the pits after their stops?
Problem is that the start is called half way around the lap. He'd already called standing start, SC had pulled away and into the pits while Hamilton led what was then a normal formation lap. Everyone else decided to pit after that. I suppose he could have called an aborted start, forced another formation lap and had them all start from the grid? The order would still have been more or less a lottery on pit box location though. If he'd called a rolling start, it would have cost those pitting a lot more time (possibly allowing Hamilton to get around and stay in the top 3-5), but there was no reason to do that in the conditions.
Thinking about it, there was probably a relatively easy way to prevent this happening int he first place. Or at least reduce the chance of it happening. The root cause is really that teams knew the start/finish was dry, but had no way to tell the state of the rest of the track. They didn't want to send their cars out on slicks in case there was a massive amount of standing water somewhere down the back of the track (I assume this is the reason at least). Sending the Safety/Medical car out for a recon lap could have given enough info to go onto slicks from the start and avoid a packed pit lane. I think they've done similar in the past, but usually just a "is the track safe to drive?" thing. It was a very unusual situation where the track dried entirely before they went back out.
I'm a little surprised none of the back marker teams went out on slicks just to be different. In the past Haas has done that kind of thing a lot, but I think there's decent cases for a lot of teams to have tried it. I was trying to see the positions on the restart, but I can't find them. Anyway, I think Haas, and Alpha Romero and Williams all could have tried it. Obviously, things worked out for Williams the way they did it, but I still think that's the kind of risk you need to take for a team in their position.
In retrospect yeah, but I want to say at the time the forecast was for a bit more rain (which never showed up). At least that's what Hamilton said when asked why they didn't change with everyone else. I also think everyone was legitimately surprised at how quickly the track dried.
I'm not disagreeing with the situation, but again if the teams thought there was an 80% chance of more rain then that 20% chance of no rain is still a huge opportunity for a Hass, Alfa Romero or Williams.
I think if you're sending cars out on slicks with an 80% chance of rain or a wet track, your drivers and mechanics are going to be very upset with you, not to mention the other teams when your car maybe spins into theirs. The risk probably was not even close to worth it until they knew the track was 100% dry after the formation lap.
I assume if they do the formation lap and it's wet they immediately pit and start from there. The opposite of what everyone did (except Hamilton of course).
Although no reason was given, Ticktum repeatedly insulted Latifi while streaming fairly recently (I think it was last week?). Not sure if that was the reason, or even if it came before or after being let go, but either way he still came across as a bit of an ass. Seems entirely in line with the rest of his career antics though. Safe to say he's out of the running for the (presumably vacant) Williams seat.
Edit: Ticktum claims he was let go before the streaming incident.
Edit 2: A clip of the stream if you want to get a sense of his character https://streamable.com/vfv229
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited August 2021
So I just got a feeler email from COTA, I guess because I've bought tickets to the GP a couple of times. It basically said "We're not saying there's going to be a second GP in Texas this year, but if there was, would you want to buy tickets?"
COTA is going to be out of luck with me for a while now that Miami is coming. I'd much rather drive to Hard Rock and take a bus, than fly to Texas and take a bus, lol.
COTA is going to be out of luck with me for a while now that Miami is coming. I'd much rather drive to Hard Rock and take a bus, than fly to Texas and take a bus, lol.
Fair.
I'm local, so COTA is a no brainer. Only reason I am not going this year is because we are taking the kiddo to her first Austin FC match.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I'm not local but I lived in Houston for 10 years and have friends in the area. So I make a thing out of it.
I didn't do it myself - I was having too much fun watching - but I suspect I'd have slipped up at or around '87, and probably lost it entirely after '80.
The BBC website had a quiz about them once but it was just remembering all of the names, not matching them up to a year or years or doing them in order. That was much easier than this format, even though it had a time limit. I don't recall if I got the lot, I think I was probably missing three or four at least.
Posts
Blimey.
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That said, immediately after getting out of the car, Lewis didn't seem too bad - it was a few minutes later it really seemed to hit him.
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Also, my doctor told me to stop reading Dhalphir's comments because my blood pressure can't handle all that salt.
Hungary 2021 - crashed into the back of Norris
Imola 2021 - crashed when fighting a Williams for 9th
Turkey 2020 - Lost count of how many times he spun.
I don't think it gets much better if you go further back either. Unfortunately for Bottas, he has highlighted his downsides just as we go into a summer break where he's likely to be looking for a new seat.
I didn’t catch the race, as yesterday was our travel day back from vacation, but oh man those highlights!
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Edit: one more, this one may require clicking on to open the whole image:
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Thinking about it, there was probably a relatively easy way to prevent this happening int he first place. Or at least reduce the chance of it happening. The root cause is really that teams knew the start/finish was dry, but had no way to tell the state of the rest of the track. They didn't want to send their cars out on slicks in case there was a massive amount of standing water somewhere down the back of the track (I assume this is the reason at least). Sending the Safety/Medical car out for a recon lap could have given enough info to go onto slicks from the start and avoid a packed pit lane. I think they've done similar in the past, but usually just a "is the track safe to drive?" thing. It was a very unusual situation where the track dried entirely before they went back out.
Also, Mercedes are doing an 18 inch tyre test tomorrow in Hungary - with George Russell driving. I suspect they'll be looking at more than just the new tyres...
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.russell-to-drive-for-mercedes-in-this-weeks-2022-tyre-test-in-hungary.20GgIeVh7gtJT5JJhcUkUR.html
Although no reason was given, Ticktum repeatedly insulted Latifi while streaming fairly recently (I think it was last week?). Not sure if that was the reason, or even if it came before or after being let go, but either way he still came across as a bit of an ass. Seems entirely in line with the rest of his career antics though. Safe to say he's out of the running for the (presumably vacant) Williams seat.
Edit: Ticktum claims he was let go before the streaming incident.
Edit 2: A clip of the stream if you want to get a sense of his character https://streamable.com/vfv229
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Reposted in the spoiler for those who can't see Twitteryness:
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Valentino Rossi announces retirement from MotoGP
https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/valentino-rossi-announces-retirement-from-motogp/6642490/
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Fair.
I'm local, so COTA is a no brainer. Only reason I am not going this year is because we are taking the kiddo to her first Austin FC match.
Lewis can be such a troll. Looking off in to space like he needs to think about it, "Let's see...2020, me. 2019, me. 2018, hmmmm me, 2017, me" haha.
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I didn't do it myself - I was having too much fun watching - but I suspect I'd have slipped up at or around '87, and probably lost it entirely after '80.
The BBC website had a quiz about them once but it was just remembering all of the names, not matching them up to a year or years or doing them in order. That was much easier than this format, even though it had a time limit. I don't recall if I got the lot, I think I was probably missing three or four at least.
Steam | XBL