GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Utter and complete shambles by the FIA. They couldn't be more obviously targeting Hamilton at this point. Whether it's because they are trying to slow down his win rate, or because of his outspoken anti-racism stance, doesn't matter. Go try and find the rule he broke in the rule book. You won't. Instead you'll find a random note in the 'Race Directors Notes', e.g. they made that shit up. Complete and utter muppet job by the stewards and Michael Masi, who has turned out to be a real shitter of a race director compared to Charlie Whiting. Seems to care about safety a lot when he's handing Hamilton 5 second penalties for doing something that wasn't really unsafe at all, but taking any responsibility for the shit location of the restart line or the safety car lights at Mugello, a situation that was actually unsafe? Can't have that.
Utter and complete shambles by the FIA. They couldn't be more obviously targeting Hamilton at this point. Whether it's because they are trying to slow down his win rate, or because of his outspoken anti-racism stance, doesn't matter. Go try and find the rule he broke in the rule book. You won't. Instead you'll find a random note in the 'Race Directors Notes', e.g. they made that shit up. Complete and utter muppet job by the stewards and Michael Masi, who has turned out to be a real shitter of a race director compared to Charlie Whiting. Seems to care about safety a lot when he's handing Hamilton 5 second penalties for doing something that wasn't really unsafe at all, but taking any responsibility for the shit location of the restart line or the safety car lights at Mugello, a situation that was actually unsafe? Can't have that.
Race Director's Event Notes are track-specific rules. He broke them, he got penalized. Much like other drivers in this exact same race got penalized for breaking other rules from this exact same document. I would need much more evidence of a "muppet job" by the stewards before buying into this nutty conspiracy.
I'm glad the penalty points were rescinded. I think the penalties are pretty iffy but ultimately a team fuckups.
What I don't understand is why 2 penalties? Surely someone should have notified that x wasn't allowed and to stop before the second penalty.
Utter and complete shambles by the FIA. They couldn't be more obviously targeting Hamilton at this point. Whether it's because they are trying to slow down his win rate, or because of his outspoken anti-racism stance, doesn't matter. Go try and find the rule he broke in the rule book. You won't. Instead you'll find a random note in the 'Race Directors Notes', e.g. they made that shit up. Complete and utter muppet job by the stewards and Michael Masi, who has turned out to be a real shitter of a race director compared to Charlie Whiting. Seems to care about safety a lot when he's handing Hamilton 5 second penalties for doing something that wasn't really unsafe at all, but taking any responsibility for the shit location of the restart line or the safety car lights at Mugello, a situation that was actually unsafe? Can't have that.
It's a complete shit show. Aside from anything else, it's entirely at the stewards discretion what penalty is to be applied to something that had no direct impact on anything. That penalty points were even applied in the first place is ridiculous as breaches of directors notes don't incur penalty points up until today. That they recinded them later speaks volumes.
That's just the tip of the iceberg though. We also have the somewhat ridiculous instructions and track design at T2 which contributed to Sainz' crash. The VSC to replace the foam bollards. We have steward Mika Salo apparently leaking stewards discussions to the Finnish TV station he works with on occasion - the ones who called the exact double penalty in an entirely unprecedented situation long before the official announcement (I believe they had the information at the race start, and every other commentry team was baffled by the double penalty). If he did indeed leak the information then he ought to be barred from stewarding as there's no way to guarantee that he's behaving impartially.
Then there's their persistent blind spot when it comes to Leclerc. If there was any doubt that he's getting favourable treatment from the stewards then today's actions have to have dispelled it. A collision that punted a competitior into a wall and out of the race that was entirely avoidable but not even an investigation! Add that to not wearing seatbelts, ignoring covid regulations, unsafe releases, the illegal amount of fuel in the car at Abu Dhabi, the cop out black and white flag at Monza for shoving Hamilton off track, Japan last year in general (punting Verstappen off, shedding debris into other cars). It begs the question what does he have to do in order to actually be penalized? It also shows up how utterly pointless the penalty points system is in general. Hamilton got two for what I still consider a racing incident with Albon in Austria. Leclerc does worse today, no investigation, no points. Leclerc recklessly divebombs his teammate in Styria, utterly wrecking both cars - no penalty points.
Agreed on Masi. His defensive stance on the calamity at Mugello (blame drivers, our system must be perfectly fine!) said it all to me.
altid on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
It seems they penalised Hamilton based on wording that was added to the race director's notes after the fact in order to justify the penalty. The race director's notes do not specify a specific location for a practice start beyond "the right-hand side after the pit exit lights" and that room must be left to the left of the car for others to pass. The wording "and is not part of the track as defined by lines" only appears in the penalty notice - essentially a punishment based on a rule that didn't legally exist. There's the argument that the intention of the director's notes was for only one specific spot to be used, but that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't written that way. It's the sort of thing that typically would get a "don't do that again" notice while the FIA actually fixed their wording.
The second rule they penalised him under (article 36.1) is also entirely irrelevant as it applies to the pit lane only - which does not include the pit exit. This seems like a somewhat embarassing misinterpretation of the rules from the stewards as they ought to know the difference.
It seems to me that they were reaching quite a bit to penalise Hamilton as the decision does not stand up to scrutiny.
It seems they penalised Hamilton based on wording that was added to the race director's notes after the fact in order to justify the penalty. The race director's notes do not specify a specific location for a practice start beyond "the right-hand side after the pit exit lights" and that room must be left to the left of the car for others to pass. The wording "and is not part of the track as defined by lines" only appears in the penalty notice - essentially a punishment based on a rule that didn't legally exist. There's the argument that the intention of the director's notes was for only one specific spot to be used, but that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't written that way. It's the sort of thing that typically would get a "don't do that again" notice while the FIA actually fixed their wording.
The second rule they penalised him under (article 36.1) is also entirely irrelevant as it applies to the pit lane only - which does not include the pit exit. This seems like a somewhat embarassing misinterpretation of the rules from the stewards as they ought to know the difference.
It seems to me that they were reaching quite a bit to penalise Hamilton as the decision does not stand up to scrutiny.
10 seconds for something this vague is ridiculous, no matter who it affects.
For extra fun, Leclerc did a practice start on the reconnisance laps outside of the specified location at Spa - and in this case it's much more tightly defined to a specific spot, complete with picture. Indeed, they used doing a practice start after safety car line 2 to avoid punishment for driving slower than the minimum time allowed:
During the time the pit exit is open for the race, practice starts may be carried out on the track after the pit exit before the SC2 line.
The Race Director’s Note to Teams (document 16) specified a maximum time of 2:04.0 between the Safety Car lines and car 16 recorded a time of 2:06.087. However, the Team advised that the driver had crossed SC2 line hence triggering the timing for the lap, then stopped for approximately 12 seconds to perform a practice start, then completed the Reconnaissance Lap. This was independently verified by the Stewards from the on board video of Car 16. Accordingly, no breach was determinedto have occurred
Not that it's worthy of a penalty then either, but it's pretty clear cut in Leclerc's case. Two offenses in fact, driving too slowly per the regulations for that race - because he'd done a practice start outside of the specified area. It's a pretty glaring discrepancy in how the rules are applied, especially considering the rumours the stewards were initially going to give 4 penalty points to Hamilton.
Agreed that it's disappointing that they're pulling out when they'd just got somewhat competitive. Fact is that it takes years to be competitive in F1, it's not a sport you can simply buy immediate success in. Honda leaving F1 every 10-15 years or so is becoming something of a tradition though, and at least time they gave more notice than when they killed their F1 team. That time it was simply a phone call one day to say shut it all down and fire everyone tomorrow.
What happens next could be interesting though. Red Bull could default to Renault since Renault couldn't refuse. They could try buying the engine and developing it themselves - logistical nightmare and probably not much use to them outside of F1, but they'd have cash to spare post spending cap. They could just pull out of F1 as well. There's also the Verstappen problem - namely that he reportedly has a get out clause if Red Bull aren't on a works engine deal. Needless to say he'd be a driver in high demand... except most serious competitors have their lineup set for the near future. Ferrari has Leclerc, Renault has Alonso (but for how long?), Mclaren Danny Ric + Norris and the only current step up, Mercedes, has Hamilton until he retires.
Agreed that it's disappointing that they're pulling out when they'd just got somewhat competitive. Fact is that it takes years to be competitive in F1, it's not a sport you can simply buy immediate success in. Honda leaving F1 every 10-15 years or so is becoming something of a tradition though, and at least time they gave more notice than when they killed their F1 team. That time it was simply a phone call one day to say shut it all down and fire everyone tomorrow.
What happens next could be interesting though. Red Bull could default to Renault since Renault couldn't refuse. They could try buying the engine and developing it themselves - logistical nightmare and probably not much use to them outside of F1, but they'd have cash to spare post spending cap. They could just pull out of F1 as well. There's also the Verstappen problem - namely that he reportedly has a get out clause if Red Bull aren't on a works engine deal. Needless to say he'd be a driver in high demand... except most serious competitors have their lineup set for the near future. Ferrari has Leclerc, Renault has Alonso (but for how long?), Mclaren Danny Ric + Norris and the only current step up, Mercedes, has Hamilton until he retires.
Unless Nissan, Audi or Toyota are interested, I don't think there's anyone else doing hybrid high performance racing engines lately. So no chance ti be a "works" team.
Their best chance would be the Merc engine and beating then at the aero game.
Merc can't provide them an engine as they're already supplying the max 4 teams. Even if they could, there's no benefit to it. Buying the engine outright and moving it in house could count as a works team, but I don't consider it overly likely (or particularly successful for that matter).
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Merc can't provide them an engine as they're already supplying the max 4 teams. Even if they could, there's no benefit to it. Buying the engine outright and moving it in house could count as a works team, but I don't consider it overly likely (or particularly successful for that matter).
Max 4 teams?
What.....what happens if Renault pulls out? Who gets the boot if there can be only 8 teams?
Merc can't provide them an engine as they're already supplying the max 4 teams. Even if they could, there's no benefit to it. Buying the engine outright and moving it in house could count as a works team, but I don't consider it overly likely (or particularly successful for that matter).
Max 4 teams?
What.....what happens if Renault pulls out? Who gets the boot if there can be only 8 teams?
Had to go digging, but officially the rule is 3 teams unless the FIA ok's it (section 8.3 in the sporting regs):
A major car manufacturer may not directly or indirectly supply engines for more than three teams of two cars each without the consent of the FIA.
But they go further, there's a whole appendix on this in the sporting regulations (complete with formula!) that includes a minimum number of teams to be supplied and allows the FIA to force engine supply deals. In this instance, Renault only supply one team and thus would have to agree to give Red Bull/Alpha Tauri engines whether they want to or not. The relevant section is appendix 9 in: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2020_formula_1_sporting_regulations_-_iss_11_-_2020-08-25.pdf
The intent of the rule is to prevent any one manufacturer dominating the sport and to spread engine supply roughly equally among the grid.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Merc can't provide them an engine as they're already supplying the max 4 teams. Even if they could, there's no benefit to it. Buying the engine outright and moving it in house could count as a works team, but I don't consider it overly likely (or particularly successful for that matter).
Max 4 teams?
What.....what happens if Renault pulls out? Who gets the boot if there can be only 8 teams?
Had to go digging, but officially the rule is 3 teams unless the FIA ok's it (section 8.3 in the sporting regs):
A major car manufacturer may not directly or indirectly supply engines for more than three teams of two cars each without the consent of the FIA.
But they go further, there's a whole appendix on this in the sporting regulations (complete with formula!) that includes a minimum number of teams to be supplied and allows the FIA to force engine supply deals. In this instance, Renault only supply one team and thus would have to agree to give Red Bull/Alpha Tauri engines whether they want to or not. The relevant section is appendix 9 in: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2020_formula_1_sporting_regulations_-_iss_11_-_2020-08-25.pdf
The intent of the rule is to prevent any one manufacturer dominating the sport and to spread engine supply roughly equally among the grid.
They're doing a bang up job!
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Been getting back into ACC as the release date of the Reverb G2 VR headset approaches, and I've been working on Monza. You might remember from a few months ago that my best time was a 1:50.9
well, I'd been doing well, grinding out repeated low 1:50s.
Then all of a sudden, during a random casual race with a friend who just picked the game up, I smash out this 1:49.5
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Won my first race last night.
Was a 12 man race at Spa. I qualified on p2 and took the lead after the Kemmel straight on lap one with a sweet overtake, but p2 was less than 2 seconds behind me for the entire race so it was a stressful 20 minutes to secure the bag.
Looks like it’s a little wet in Germany this morning...
Tweet is from Williams Racing, with a picture showing their officially branded rubber ducky (which is apparently available for purchase) floating in pit lane.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
FP1 got cancelled as the medivacs aren't able to fly to the nearest hospital due to fog over the mountains. They can fly over the track, but there's worse fog between the track and the hospital.
I mean, what if it just keeps raining all weekend? No practice at all? That’s not good if it’s raining for qualy and the race as well. No race? They gotta race!
Hearing that Stroll may be ill (unclear if it's covid or not), and he hasn't put in an appearance in FP3 yet. Hulkenberg allegely already en route.
Edit: He's already there!
Apparently when they called Hulk to ask him to drive, he was about ten minutes away from the track and on his way there; he was going to be doing some commentary for a German channel.
It's a pity that he's in at such short notice though. There's absolutely no driver that would do well with having to jump in to a only vaguely familiar car, with absolutely no practice time and straight into qualifying. Hope he does well in the race, but wouldn't expect miracles.
He’s got a decent car again that he’s shown he can place at the high end of the mid pack. It will be interesting to see how many laps it takes him to get accustomed in the race before he starts charging through the slow markers. All things being equal, I am expecting him to push for points by the end at least.
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Race Director's Event Notes are track-specific rules. He broke them, he got penalized. Much like other drivers in this exact same race got penalized for breaking other rules from this exact same document. I would need much more evidence of a "muppet job" by the stewards before buying into this nutty conspiracy.
What I don't understand is why 2 penalties? Surely someone should have notified that x wasn't allowed and to stop before the second penalty.
Also, no penalty for Leclerc again? Wheeee.
His penalty is driving for Ferrari.
That's just the tip of the iceberg though. We also have the somewhat ridiculous instructions and track design at T2 which contributed to Sainz' crash. The VSC to replace the foam bollards. We have steward Mika Salo apparently leaking stewards discussions to the Finnish TV station he works with on occasion - the ones who called the exact double penalty in an entirely unprecedented situation long before the official announcement (I believe they had the information at the race start, and every other commentry team was baffled by the double penalty). If he did indeed leak the information then he ought to be barred from stewarding as there's no way to guarantee that he's behaving impartially.
Then there's their persistent blind spot when it comes to Leclerc. If there was any doubt that he's getting favourable treatment from the stewards then today's actions have to have dispelled it. A collision that punted a competitior into a wall and out of the race that was entirely avoidable but not even an investigation! Add that to not wearing seatbelts, ignoring covid regulations, unsafe releases, the illegal amount of fuel in the car at Abu Dhabi, the cop out black and white flag at Monza for shoving Hamilton off track, Japan last year in general (punting Verstappen off, shedding debris into other cars). It begs the question what does he have to do in order to actually be penalized? It also shows up how utterly pointless the penalty points system is in general. Hamilton got two for what I still consider a racing incident with Albon in Austria. Leclerc does worse today, no investigation, no points. Leclerc recklessly divebombs his teammate in Styria, utterly wrecking both cars - no penalty points.
Agreed on Masi. His defensive stance on the calamity at Mugello (blame drivers, our system must be perfectly fine!) said it all to me.
Editing a spoiler, as the video I’ve linked spoils the race results.
that's excellent
It seems they penalised Hamilton based on wording that was added to the race director's notes after the fact in order to justify the penalty. The race director's notes do not specify a specific location for a practice start beyond "the right-hand side after the pit exit lights" and that room must be left to the left of the car for others to pass. The wording "and is not part of the track as defined by lines" only appears in the penalty notice - essentially a punishment based on a rule that didn't legally exist. There's the argument that the intention of the director's notes was for only one specific spot to be used, but that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't written that way. It's the sort of thing that typically would get a "don't do that again" notice while the FIA actually fixed their wording.
The second rule they penalised him under (article 36.1) is also entirely irrelevant as it applies to the pit lane only - which does not include the pit exit. This seems like a somewhat embarassing misinterpretation of the rules from the stewards as they ought to know the difference.
It seems to me that they were reaching quite a bit to penalise Hamilton as the decision does not stand up to scrutiny.
10 seconds for something this vague is ridiculous, no matter who it affects.
Ride Along With Robby Gordon - 2020 Baja 500 (20 mins)
Not that it's worthy of a penalty then either, but it's pretty clear cut in Leclerc's case. Two offenses in fact, driving too slowly per the regulations for that race - because he'd done a practice start outside of the specified area. It's a pretty glaring discrepancy in how the rules are applied, especially considering the rumours the stewards were initially going to give 4 penalty points to Hamilton.
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What happens next could be interesting though. Red Bull could default to Renault since Renault couldn't refuse. They could try buying the engine and developing it themselves - logistical nightmare and probably not much use to them outside of F1, but they'd have cash to spare post spending cap. They could just pull out of F1 as well. There's also the Verstappen problem - namely that he reportedly has a get out clause if Red Bull aren't on a works engine deal. Needless to say he'd be a driver in high demand... except most serious competitors have their lineup set for the near future. Ferrari has Leclerc, Renault has Alonso (but for how long?), Mclaren Danny Ric + Norris and the only current step up, Mercedes, has Hamilton until he retires.
Unless Nissan, Audi or Toyota are interested, I don't think there's anyone else doing hybrid high performance racing engines lately. So no chance ti be a "works" team.
Their best chance would be the Merc engine and beating then at the aero game.
Max 4 teams?
What.....what happens if Renault pulls out? Who gets the boot if there can be only 8 teams?
Had to go digging, but officially the rule is 3 teams unless the FIA ok's it (section 8.3 in the sporting regs):
But they go further, there's a whole appendix on this in the sporting regulations (complete with formula!) that includes a minimum number of teams to be supplied and allows the FIA to force engine supply deals. In this instance, Renault only supply one team and thus would have to agree to give Red Bull/Alpha Tauri engines whether they want to or not. The relevant section is appendix 9 in:
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2020_formula_1_sporting_regulations_-_iss_11_-_2020-08-25.pdf
The intent of the rule is to prevent any one manufacturer dominating the sport and to spread engine supply roughly equally among the grid.
They're doing a bang up job!
well, I'd been doing well, grinding out repeated low 1:50s.
Then all of a sudden, during a random casual race with a friend who just picked the game up, I smash out this 1:49.5
https://streamable.com/ifsf3g
Was a 12 man race at Spa. I qualified on p2 and took the lead after the Kemmel straight on lap one with a sweet overtake, but p2 was less than 2 seconds behind me for the entire race so it was a stressful 20 minutes to secure the bag.
https://streamable.com/ax3px3
Looks like it’s a little wet in Germany this morning...
Tweet is from Williams Racing, with a picture showing their officially branded rubber ducky (which is apparently available for purchase) floating in pit lane.
Remember when it was chucking it down in Japan so hard they were sailing paper boats down the pit lane?
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/and-finally/f1-teams-built-mini-boats-as-the-rain-came-down-in-suzuka-but-whose-was-best-36202675.html
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Edit: He's already there!
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It's as beautiful a sight as it sounds
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If Hulk and Russell fight for 10th I'll be happy!