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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] What Rough Beast Slouches Towards Number 10?

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Posts

  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    No deal sounds like the best way to stick it to The Man, and we hate that guy.
    evilthecat wrote: »
    I.e. Boris doesn't really believe in Brexit, Cameron said so, the only true Brexit position it a hard out.
    Depends how you define 'really believe'. Boris would not sacrifice his career to get brexit done; if the polls clearly supported remain, he'd switch in a heartbeat.
    I do think he truly believes he can make this work, and he'll believe that whatever happens afterwards will be either Great or Worth The Cost.

    For me the sticking point of that particular person is that their way of thinking is so very reminiscent of the "no true scotsman" fallacy.
    There's no middle ground or compromising, you're either on our page or you aren't a true leaver.
    And this extremism/lack of nuance is pervasive in all the brexit arguments.

    Parliament is disregarding the will of the people, for example.
    Well no it isn't, 48% of people don't want to leave, democracy isn't all or nothing, you need to try make them happy somehow as well.

    On a completely unrelated note:
    Another person I spoke to is for Brexit for "the bants". They're fed up with it and now they just want the train to derail. I just don't understand how you can be so blasé about something that's likely to cripple the country you live in.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited December 3
    This might veer close to conspiracy theory but here goes. Len McCluskey and Corbyn both are economical dinosaurs, but.
    Why they are dinosaurs? To them the battle was very much that of the late 70ies closures. In their mind, nationalizing industries and generous Keynesian spending can keep an economy running. They're not technically right in that the EU can't prevent that, but they're not entirely wrong either.
    Either way, it doesn't matter. There won't be tens of thousands of people piling back into the mines. The car industry isn't going to revert to hand-crafted wooden paneling. And running cheaper trains won't transform the economy overnight. By now Corbyn should have seen and been explained any number of studies explaining that the damage of withdrawing from the EU cannot be corrected for no matter how much of the economy he thinks to nationalize afterwards. Keep in mind that if Corbyn tries to sponsor any industry the EU is going to claim and get tariffs. The more money he hands out the less the UK exports.
    Again, he should know this by now, as he should have been told (by the EU if no-one else) that within the EU the UK could probably do a lot of his proposals regardless of EU criticism. That's the but. No-one in Corbyn's position should be that uninformed. You can't compare this to austerity politicians who well know that their policies will only enrich the rich. They lie with good reason, feeling guilty all the way to the bank.
    However, why would Corbyn lie?
    What's the big ticket item that the EU can keep a Labour government from getting?
    Part of it is that McCluskey wants to keep the Polish out. That's not a conspiracy theory; it was part of a Labour proposal for an amended May deal. Now, there are many reasons why a socialist may forget about the 'internationalist' part of socialism. One major one is if you are a union leader depending on support from workers who feel wage pressure rather than a politician needing to build international coalitions...
    But (here's the full-on conspiracy part) there's likely more going on. I'd love for someone to drop the phrase 'Immigrants are the reserve army of capital' and watch McCluskeys face.
    For those not in the know, it's a very common dogwhistle among the Russophile part of leftwing populism. McCluskey might be knowingly riding a wave of Russian-sponsored white van anger.

    for this part no conspiracy theory required - british unions (and the labour party more broadly) were against the eu from the beginning, and have always had a strong anti-immigration chauvinist bent. the traditional form was to couch this in terms of "the bargaining power and supply of labour"... broadly british union heads have been more anti-immigration than their membership for years now which is interesting. we have a real line in absolute fucking morons being our labour movement heads eg bob crow

    they were ahead of the nationalist socialist curve here.
    Another conspiracy theory that's not unlikely is that McCluskey is actually not bothered about losing the election, getting a hard Brexit, and seeing the economy crash. Again, he's not a politician who delivers the goods. He's a union leader who fights Tories and the stronger and more evil those Tories are the more support he figures he will get.
    It's not unthinkable that he's managed to convince Corbyn that a hard Brexit disaster will translate into Labour winning the first post-Brexit election. Labour was ahead in the polls from April till August only because the Brexit party stole more voters away from the Tories than from Labour. There's no analysis where the British will vote social instead of racist, that's just wishful thinking. And (almost) everywhere the left openly opposes immigration people end up voting for the original rightwing anti-immigration parties anyway. You could even make an case that only centrist liberal parties have managed to make moderate anti-immigration work.

    this part i think is not true. the position mccluskey has taken in shadow cab meetings and mroe broadly is that going anti-brexit would mean the end of the "true" labour party vote ie mccluskey thinks that publically opposing brexit will ruin them. there is no need to invoke any motive beyond he thinks only working class regional labour party voters represent the authentic voice of the working class etc etc

    corbyn is stepping down v soon - in fact has wanted to stop for a while, hence all the shuffling around various female northeners (angela rayner, rebecca long-bailey, now laura pidcock) in the vain hope of finding an appropriate successor to Great Leader Corbyn to anoint, before finding none of them worked - so the idea he is expecting to personally win an election later on is probably not high on his list.

    surrealitycheck on
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    shryketynicH3KnucklesElldren
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    evilthecat wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    No deal sounds like the best way to stick it to The Man, and we hate that guy.
    evilthecat wrote: »
    I.e. Boris doesn't really believe in Brexit, Cameron said so, the only true Brexit position it a hard out.
    Depends how you define 'really believe'. Boris would not sacrifice his career to get brexit done; if the polls clearly supported remain, he'd switch in a heartbeat.
    I do think he truly believes he can make this work, and he'll believe that whatever happens afterwards will be either Great or Worth The Cost.

    For me the sticking point of that particular person is that their way of thinking is so very reminiscent of the "no true scotsman" fallacy.
    There's no middle ground or compromising, you're either on our page or you aren't a true leaver.
    And this extremism/lack of nuance is pervasive in all the brexit arguments.

    Parliament is disregarding the will of the people, for example.
    Well no it isn't, 48% of people don't want to leave, democracy isn't all or nothing, you need to try make them happy somehow as well.

    On a completely unrelated note:
    Another person I spoke to is for Brexit for "the bants". They're fed up with it and now they just want the train to derail. I just don't understand how you can be so blasé about something that's likely to cripple the country you live in.

    They don't think it will affect them personally.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    I don't think it's even that, I think there's a fair bit of "it can't be that bad or people wouldn't be pushing for it".
    If it's a valid option, then it can't be catastrophic, so the people saying that it will be just don't want it and are doomsaying to get their way.

    tynicBethrynCasual
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    I don't think it's even that, I think there's a fair bit of "it can't be that bad or people wouldn't be pushing for it".
    If it's a valid option, then it can't be catastrophic, so the people saying that it will be just don't want it and are doomsaying to get their way.

    I think there is also a bit of how all the negative consequences can reach a point where a typical person simply can't grasp the magnitude of the fuckup that's would occur with a No-Deal Brexit, so some part of their subconscious brain is in denial of the facts even if they're willing to accept them on a conscious level.

    A "One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic" sort of thing.

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    Echo
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    I don't think it's even that, I think there's a fair bit of "it can't be that bad or people wouldn't be pushing for it".
    If it's a valid option, then it can't be catastrophic, so the people saying that it will be just don't want it and are doomsaying to get their way.

    I think there is also a bit of how all the negative consequences can reach a point where a typical person simply can't grasp the magnitude of the fuckup that's would occur with a No-Deal Brexit, so some part of their subconscious brain is in denial of the facts even if they're willing to accept them on a conscious level.

    A "One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic" sort of thing.

    They also just don't give a fuck. If no-deal brexit happens and fuck everything up even more, they're still going to blame it on the foreigners, and they're still going to vote actively against their self interest.

    Because a democracy with an undereducated voting population isn't a democracy at all, it's a dictatorship of who's got the better populism going.

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
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  • JuliusJulius Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Well neither did labour prevent austerity...

    yeah they were in the opposition... The austerity programme was implemented in 2010 by the Tory-Lib Dem government. I don't understand what your point is here.
    Thirith wrote: »
    Julius: I agree with what you're saying to a large extent, except for that last bit - or rather, if what you're saying is true, it definitely makes me think that the Labour policy makers are idiots. Rejecting or not caring about the EU because they didn't stop the Tories from implementing their particular brand of austerity without looking at whether the EU constitutes a net good in terms of what Labour cares about (e.g. workers' rights, health and safety, job creation) strikes me as masturbatory self-righteousness. And that makes me doubt their ability to bring about meaningful change in a deeply flawed political system.

    The Lib Dems didn't merely refrain from stopping the austerity programme, they actively made it happen. They were part of the coalition government! They voted for it!!

    The problem is that you can't just look at whether the EU constitutes a net good in a vacuum and then support anyone. What is the point of aiding the Lib Dems to get a second ref if they will also again help the Conservatives enact austerity measures? There isn't even a guarantee that Brexit won't happen, or that the issue won't pop up again in the near future. The main goal is keeping the conservatives from power and reversing the damage they've done, and the Lib Dems can't be trusted to help.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited December 3
    labour cant be trusted to not invade Iraq, pass voting reform, etc...

    if people seriously think modern lds are gonna go into coalition with the conservatives again...?

    it's a v partial and sort of silly over interpretation of the history similar to what I wrote above

    surrealitycheck on
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  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    Boris Johnson only really believes in one thing

    Namely Boris Johnson

    fuck gendered marketing
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  • JuliusJulius Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    I think there is a popular view of Labour that is deeply mistaken, and which also explains the common belief of Labour's Brexit stance being garbled and their general campaign strategies being unclear. Labour, or the member alliance that currently decides policy if you want to be vaguer, doesn't give a shit about Brexit. That is, Brexit is not their main concern at all and their attitude towards it depends on the factual end results of any decision. The primary concern is austerity and opposing it. The reason they oppose the Conservative Party is not because they want to brexit, but because they caused incredible harm to the working class in the last decade. They killed people and keep killing people. With regards to EU membership, the salient fact is that said membership clearly did not prevent that shit.

    The EU is not there to govern individual member countries if their duly elected governments decide to cut funding for things. It is not the job of the EU to stop a member country from implementing austerity measures of the kind the UK has undergone. Blaming the EU for not "stepping in", in whatever form that would be, is ludicrous, and Labour have never, not under Corbyn or anyone else, suggested that the EU should be even more involved in the running of the UK's internal politics. The myth that they are is what has fuelled idiotic euroscepticism for decades.

    But EU membership does, in fact, make opposing austerity easier, because it's economically beneficial, and gives more money to the government who wishes to help the poorest in society. Brexit makes almost everything Labour want to do harder, because it means they have less money, the economy is weaker and jobs are more scarce. There is no welfare program or austerity reversal that is not made more difficult by Brexit. It's more difficult to alleviate poverty when all the car manufacturing plants have closed down and the people who used to work there now need support.

    Nobody is blaming the EU for not stepping in, the point is that EU membership does not prevent the government from destroying people's lives. Therefore, staying in the EU is a secondary concern.

    Also, it sounds like you think austerity is some sort of natural phenomenon rather than deliberate government policy. It is nonsensical to say EU membership makes opposing austerity easier, because to not have austerity merely requires not having its proponents in power. A better economy or funds to help the poorest are irrelevant. Brexit doesn't make getting rid of the "Bedroom tax" any more difficult. A weaker economy might make alleviating poverty harder, but it has no effect on the difficulty of reversing welfare reforms. The economy doesn't affect Parliament's ability to pass laws.

    Perdurabo
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited December 4
    A better economy and fewer poor people makes it easier to oppose austerity because it makes it easier to sell spending programs... which means its easier to campaign against its proponents...

    Never mind the fact that EU spending in the UK is in and of itself anti-austerity and so necessarily prevents austerity.

    Edit: to make it as clear as possible. Written as a consequential statement youre saying “In order to make oppose Austerity Labour is not going to fight against Austerity”

    Goumindong on
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    monikerNetscape
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited December 4
    Julius wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Julius wrote: »
    I think there is a popular view of Labour that is deeply mistaken, and which also explains the common belief of Labour's Brexit stance being garbled and their general campaign strategies being unclear. Labour, or the member alliance that currently decides policy if you want to be vaguer, doesn't give a shit about Brexit. That is, Brexit is not their main concern at all and their attitude towards it depends on the factual end results of any decision. The primary concern is austerity and opposing it. The reason they oppose the Conservative Party is not because they want to brexit, but because they caused incredible harm to the working class in the last decade. They killed people and keep killing people. With regards to EU membership, the salient fact is that said membership clearly did not prevent that shit.

    The EU is not there to govern individual member countries if their duly elected governments decide to cut funding for things. It is not the job of the EU to stop a member country from implementing austerity measures of the kind the UK has undergone. Blaming the EU for not "stepping in", in whatever form that would be, is ludicrous, and Labour have never, not under Corbyn or anyone else, suggested that the EU should be even more involved in the running of the UK's internal politics. The myth that they are is what has fuelled idiotic euroscepticism for decades.

    But EU membership does, in fact, make opposing austerity easier, because it's economically beneficial, and gives more money to the government who wishes to help the poorest in society. Brexit makes almost everything Labour want to do harder, because it means they have less money, the economy is weaker and jobs are more scarce. There is no welfare program or austerity reversal that is not made more difficult by Brexit. It's more difficult to alleviate poverty when all the car manufacturing plants have closed down and the people who used to work there now need support.

    Nobody is blaming the EU for not stepping in, the point is that EU membership does not prevent the government from destroying people's lives. Therefore, staying in the EU is a secondary concern.

    Doesn't being a member of the EU prevent, say, Boris Johnson allowing the importation of chlorinated chicken? That the EU doesn't prevent duly elected member governments from doing all the horrible things that they can to the constituencies that empowered them doesn't mean the EU doesn't prevent any.

    moniker on
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Also, people have lost trust on the EU to handle a country having it's economy imploding since, well, Greece happened.

    "Well, akchsually, the UK is not on the Eurozone". You think that matters? No. What everybody saw was the EU "forcing austerity on poor Greece" despite people voting against it.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Julius wrote: »
    Nobody is blaming the EU for not stepping in, the point is that EU membership does not prevent the government from destroying people's lives. Therefore, staying in the EU is a secondary concern.

    Also, it sounds like you think austerity is some sort of natural phenomenon rather than deliberate government policy. It is nonsensical to say EU membership makes opposing austerity easier, because to not have austerity merely requires not having its proponents in power. A better economy or funds to help the poorest are irrelevant. Brexit doesn't make getting rid of the "Bedroom tax" any more difficult. A weaker economy might make alleviating poverty harder, but it has no effect on the difficulty of reversing welfare reforms. The economy doesn't affect Parliament's ability to pass laws.

    I guess the line about austerity being a natural phenomenon is meant to be an insult or paint me as being all for it, but I can't see how you got there from what I wrote. I don't know why you are unable to understand that a government with less money and more people out of work and a less stable economy would be less able to implement a sweeping and expensive raft of proposals to help those in need, but there you go.

    Yes, the economy affects Parliament's ability to pass laws, if those laws mean more money has to be found from somewhere, and a sinking economy means there's less money. They could pass a law to reverse all the cuts the Tories made, but if they didn't have the money to pay for it all it wouldn't matter. Brexit makes the country poorer, which makes the government poorer, which makes paying for stuff the Tories cut harder.

    And things like EU regulations over food safety do make people safer and prevent the government from lowering standards that would, indeed, endanger people's lives. It doesn't make them safe in every way conceivable (i.e. stopping austerity), but yes, the EU stops the government from harming people's lives in many ways.

    CroakerBCmonikermrondeaushrykeBethrynMoridin889Lord_AsmodeusForarElldren
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    The EU has enforced austerity measures on member states and part of internationalist leftist ideals is the idea that you can't just say "well that's them and not us so fuck em" like those are fellow international workers etc.

    Not saying that's how you should all see it but rather that the consequence of the situation in Greece turned numerous leftists against the EU as a tool of globalism, austerity, privatisation etc. Now I think it's more complex than that but the EU is definitely a capitalist organisation.

    Julius
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Those are totally valid criticisms of the EU, but I don't believe the EU had anything to do with austerity measures that were enforced in the UK of the kind that Labour are promising to reverse (i.e. bedroom tax, universal credit, etc).

    The EU also enforces standards that limit capitalism (i.e. food standards), so it's not like it's only purpose is to maximise profits for the few.

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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Some Extinction Rebellion protestors, dressed as bees, have apparently glued themselves to the Lib Dem bus.

    The bus is electric.

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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited December 4
    But you are aware of it

    QED

    Solar on
  • DibbitDibbit Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Some Extinction Rebellion protestors, dressed as bees, have apparently glued themselves to the Lib Dem bus.

    The bus is electric.

    I read this as electrified, and was picturing bee-dressed protesters being shocked and rolling on the ground going "noo, don't taze me!"
    I mean, that would be a horrible thing, but also, in the dark recesses of my mind, kind of funny.

    Doctor DetroitMild ConfusiontzeentchlingTicaldfjamFryElldrenCasual
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    The EU has enforced austerity measures on member states and part of internationalist leftist ideals is the idea that you can't just say "well that's them and not us so fuck em" like those are fellow international workers etc.

    Not saying that's how you should all see it but rather that the consequence of the situation in Greece turned numerous leftists against the EU as a tool of globalism, austerity, privatisation etc. Now I think it's more complex than that but the EU is definitely a capitalist organisation.

    That's less the EU and more the ECB. The problem is the Eurozone, not the EU as such.

    And given the EU is leading the charge on a ton of anti-capitalist, pro-labour, pro-consumer charges, I think the whole unreconstructed-70s-left-wing-anti-EU sentiment is pretty silly.

    mrondeauKayne Red RobeMoridin889Elldren
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited December 4
    Solar wrote: »
    But you are aware of it

    QED

    I'm not sure "laughing at the silliness of those dumb environmentalists who are just kids who don't know wtf they are doing" is really the reaction you wanna get though. It's basically playing into the negative stereotypes your own movement needs to be fighting against.

    shryke on
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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    The EU has enforced austerity measures on member states and part of internationalist leftist ideals is the idea that you can't just say "well that's them and not us so fuck em" like those are fellow international workers etc.

    Not saying that's how you should all see it but rather that the consequence of the situation in Greece turned numerous leftists against the EU as a tool of globalism, austerity, privatisation etc. Now I think it's more complex than that but the EU is definitely a capitalist organisation.

    That's less the EU and more the ECB. The problem is the Eurozone, not the EU as such.

    And given the EU is leading the charge on a ton of anti-capitalist, pro-labour, pro-consumer charges, I think the whole unreconstructed-70s-left-wing-anti-EU sentiment is pretty silly.

    EU budget deficit requirements compounded the problems.
    EU countries must demonstrate sound public finances and meet 2 criteria: their budget deficit must not exceed 3% of gross domestic product (GDP); public debt (government debt & that of public agencies) must not exceed 60% of GDP.
    The PIGS couldn't devalue their currency because they were in the Eurozone, the ECB kept rates high because Germany, and the EU budget rules limited how much fiscal stimulus could be applied.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    SolarJulius
  • 101101 Registered User regular
    edited December 4
    What happened to Greece is a red herring to me.

    We are not Greece, for us being in the EU is a massive economic boost.

    And for us here in the UK the EU is anti austerity, poring far more money into underdeveloped areas like Wales than the Tories would've over the past 8 years

    Edit: for all the blame laid at the feet of the EU for the situation in Greece, where is the blame for the Greek government itself? The austerity put upon them by the EU was harsh, but it was mismanagement by their own government that got them in that situation in the first place

    101 on
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  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Greece's problems are also largely self inflicted and nothing to do with the EU.

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    But you are aware of it

    QED

    I'm not sure "laughing at the silliness of those dumb environmentalists who are just kids who don't know wtf they are doing" is really the reaction you wanna get though. It's basically playing into the negative stereotypes your own movement needs to be fighting against.

    I was joking

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Not a thread about Greece, just to head off any discussion about whose fault the problems of Greece actually were. There is a thread on EU politics where that discussion could go if anyone's interested.

  • PerduraboPerdurabo Leeds, UKRegistered User regular
    The extinction rebellion bees have turned their ire onto the Brexit party

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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    I mean OK but the Brexit Party are a) impervious to logic and b) in a position to do not very much. Could the ER people not get to either the Labour or Tory campaigns?

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  • JazzJazz Un-UKRegistered User regular
    Political correspondent for The Independent:


    Looks like there's all sorts of fun going on at the NATO summit.

    Kayne Red RobeNetscapeJaysonFour
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    FT correspondent. A totally trivial matter, easy to just say "Sure", even if it's a lie, and move on, but he doesn't, because he's fucking shit at this, and looks evasive and shifty because it's obvious the answer is no but he doesn't want to say so. He won't lie, but he also won't tell the truth, and looks like a berk.



    It absolutely doesn't matter at all to me whether he watches the Queen's Speech. Only 10% of the country does. But I will never understand how he manages to screw up a question like this.

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  • Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    to be fair, the NHS is not really relevant to NATO.

    To be just as fair, neither is brexit or Corbyn.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Johnson apparently managed to totally avoid saying Trump's name during that press conference, a staggering feat of evasion.

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  • TavTav Registered User regular
    every single thing I've seen about Extinction Rebellion bangs of "drama students getting ready for their first Edinburgh Fringe" and I hate it

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  • DibbitDibbit Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    I mean OK but the Brexit Party are a) impervious to logic and b) in a position to do not very much. Could the ER people not get to either the Labour or Tory campaigns?

    You can't really control where new bee colonies form. You just kind of have to move them to a safe place once they've settled.

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  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Johnson apparently managed to totally avoid saying Trump's name during that press conference, a staggering feat of evasion.

    A political version of Just a Minute is something I could get on board with tbh

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited December 4
    e
    Dibbit wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Some Extinction Rebellion protestors, dressed as bees, have apparently glued themselves to the Lib Dem bus.

    The bus is electric.

    I read this as electrified, and was picturing bee-dressed protesters being shocked and rolling on the ground going "noo, don't taze me!"
    I mean, that would be a horrible thing, but also, in the dark recesses of my mind, kind of funny.

    Same, I was chuckling in dark amusement at someone in a bee costume getting shocked, then I reread the sentence and got it.

    It’s still funny because irony though.

    Mild Confusion on
  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    FT correspondent. A totally trivial matter, easy to just say "Sure", even if it's a lie, and move on, but he doesn't, because he's fucking shit at this, and looks evasive and shifty because it's obvious the answer is no but he doesn't want to say so. He won't lie, but he also won't tell the truth, and looks like a berk.



    It absolutely doesn't matter at all to me whether he watches the Queen's Speech. Only 10% of the country does. But I will never understand how he manages to screw up a question like this.

    He's so afraid that what taking a position will be used against him that he just doesn't. If he says he doesn't watch the Queen's speech (and he obviously doesn't) then he's an anti-Royalist (which good) which will lose him some votes.

    FencingsaxNetscape
  • PerduraboPerdurabo Leeds, UKRegistered User regular
    I think the experience of having his ridiculous words used against him since he became leader has cowed him to the point that every utterance goes through a mental filter.

  • Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    On the one hand you have Boris Johnson evading the question of whether protecting the NHS was discussed with Trump. On the other, Corbyn bungling a question about what he does on Christmas Day.

    One of these will get swept away with barely a passing mention, the other will be brought up repeatedly to highlight why Corbyn shouldn't be PM.

    JazzSolarRhesus PositiveCommander ZoomShadowenaltidJuliusH3KnucklesSporkAndrewLord_AsmodeusElldrenCasual
  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    Bad-Beat wrote: »
    On the one hand you have Boris Johnson evading the question of whether protecting the NHS was discussed with Trump. On the other, Corbyn bungling a question about what he does on Christmas Day.

    One of these will get swept away with barely a passing mention, the other will be brought up repeatedly to highlight why Corbyn shouldn't be PM.

    Well, to be fair, BJ avoiding anything Trump ain't stupid.

    “Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
    ― Marcus Aurelius

    Path of Exile: themightypuck
    zepherin
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