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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Public Laugh Bitterly At Choice Of PM

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Posts

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »

    Brittle, needing constant effort to keep up, and likely to shatter under too much stress?

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  • JazzJazz Un-UKRegistered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Jazz wrote: »

    Brittle, needing constant effort to keep up, and likely to shatter under too much stress?

    Sounds like Johnson himself.

    (And Corbyn, really.)

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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Surprising no one Johnson reveals himself to be either a liar or a moron who is intentionally misrepresenting or misunderstanding his own brexit deal.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/08/boris-johnson-goods-from-northern-ireland-to-gb-wont-be-checked-brexit

    My vote goes for both as he can't possibly be unaware of what keeping NI in EU customs regs actually means but at the same time I wouldn't be at all surprised to find he was handwaving furiously at the small print of the negotiations in order to get his deal at breakneck speed. My favourite part of that article is where he says NI get the best deal because they get to keep freedom of movement AND customs alignment! Yeah Boris that does sound pretty good doesn't it?

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  • Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    edited November 8
    All this is going to achieve is all goods from the EU (and elsewhere probably) coming in from Ireland (to avoid checks/tarrifs). Great for Ireland, not so great for Dover, Liverpool or any other dock in the UK.

    Also how is anyone going to make concessions in a trade deal when they know that there is a massive loophole?

    Mc zany on
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Well the point is there is no loophole, Johnson explicitly agreed to a customs border in the Irish seas which means checks on goods. Trying to row back on that now during an election he's either a liar, an idiot or both

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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    There's some YouGov polling out today that makes some dire reading, though it's from polling from the 17th to 31st Oct so might not as accurate now but definitely shows why Boris was so keen to get his election now.

    Looks like Lib Dems and Brexit have done a number on Labour, that might lead to a Tory landslide despite them losing voters as well. Guess Remain Tories don't mind Brexit, as long as it's a Tory one.

    Ton of twitter links in the spoiler,

  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    I can't fucking believe that the Conservatives are doing so well in the polls still after the last five bloody years.

    I mean, I can believe it, I just really don't want to.

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  • Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    I can't fucking believe that the Conservatives are doing so well in the polls still after the last five bloody years.

    I mean, I can believe it, I just really don't want to.

    They aren't, they are losing votes. It is just that labour are losing far more.

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  • PerduraboPerdurabo Leeds, UKRegistered User regular
    Mc zany wrote: »
    Burnage wrote: »
    I can't fucking believe that the Conservatives are doing so well in the polls still after the last five bloody years.

    I mean, I can believe it, I just really don't want to.

    They aren't, they are losing votes. It is just that labour are losing far more.

    Don't worry, Corbyn won in 2017, he can do it again

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Its a bit astounding that Labour has up to this point failed to understand the situation entirely.

    If there’s an important, critical issue splitting the nation roughly 50/50 that has one position embraced by the majority party you pretty much have to take the opposing position as the opposition to survive. If you can’t support that as leader you need to resign. Having the most important issue facing the nation in 50 years and just taking a position of “eh, whatever happens I guess” is a highway to irrelevance and you should expect to see exactly what is going on now, mass defections to parties that actually look likely to get the job done.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    I can't fucking believe that the Conservatives are doing so well in the polls still after the last five bloody years.

    I mean, I can believe it, I just really don't want to.

    key point is that cons are not

    almost everywhere cons have lost voters, its just that the presumptive second choice have bled votes

    broadly you see flight to lds/greens/ local nationalists for remainers and the more educated/higher income, flight to non-voting / bxp for less educated / leavers

    con victory is not assured at all in any of these seats because the margins are razor thin, but everything will wiggle around as opinion and intention shifts

    snp doing well in scotland too relatively speaking

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    So, is not much that Cons are doing great, is that the main opposition party is doing terrible, if I'm getting this.

    Commander Zoom
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited November 8
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    So, is not much that Cons are doing great, is that the main opposition party is doing terrible, if I'm getting this.

    yeah. the absolute %support cons getting nationwide would historically not be enough for a majority - but the vote is so unstable and fractured with second party tending to be major victim in many seats u get these possible victories with eg 30% of the vote



    to take an example

    however

    this also means enormous potential for small shifts in voting behaviour to have enormous threshold effects - tactical voting becomes incredibly important, moves to and from bxp for cons in those seats, etc

    its also the case u would expect labour losses to be more likely to shift back - ie were looking at a floor for labour support in these areas, with lots of people who might be welcomed back into the fold if they felt it was tactically advantageous or because they like the campaign pitch etc

    surrealitycheck on
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  • TavTav Registered User regular
  • BethrynBethryn Registered User regular
    BBC also doing head-to-head debate before the poll.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50347661

    Weird, I remember a few years back when we invited all the parties to those debates. You might remember it from such hits as all the party leaders starting their responses with "I met a voter in..."

    tynic
  • Mr BubblesMr Bubbles David Koresh Superstar Registered User regular
    In my town! Maybe i should try to attend

    Fry
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited November 8
    Its a bit astounding that Labour has up to this point failed to understand the situation entirely.

    If there’s an important, critical issue splitting the nation roughly 50/50 that has one position embraced by the majority party you pretty much have to take the opposing position as the opposition to survive. If you can’t support that as leader you need to resign. Having the most important issue facing the nation in 50 years and just taking a position of “eh, whatever happens I guess” is a highway to irrelevance and you should expect to see exactly what is going on now, mass defections to parties that actually look likely to get the job done.

    Corbyn (and his ilk) strikes me as someone who would rather lose "bravely" rather than give an inch or, God forbid, resign.
    Actually winning elections isn't even a close second to ideological purity.
    Any appearance of ambiguity or willingness to compromise is a half-hearted smokescreen to try to look moderate and acceptable to non-true-believers while not actually being; but if that fails, I've no doubt he'll abandon the pretense before he abandons his position(s).

    Commander Zoom on
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  • pezgenpezgen Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    So, is not much that Cons are doing great, is that the main opposition party is doing terrible, if I'm getting this.

    yeah. the absolute %support cons getting nationwide would historically not be enough for a majority - but the vote is so unstable and fractured with second party tending to be major victim in many seats u get these possible victories with eg 30% of the vote



    to take an example

    however

    this also means enormous potential for small shifts in voting behaviour to have enormous threshold effects - tactical voting becomes incredibly important, moves to and from bxp for cons in those seats, etc

    its also the case u would expect labour losses to be more likely to shift back - ie were looking at a floor for labour support in these areas, with lots of people who might be welcomed back into the fold if they felt it was tactically advantageous or because they like the campaign pitch etc

    Also these are regional figures rather than any individual constituencies. Looking at the NE one, there’s a huge BXP percentage, but it’s going to be heavily concentrated in places like Hartlepool and (obvs) Sunderland. How much genuine damage that does to the Labour vote across the region is impossible to tell.

  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Note of caution about the regional YouGov, on many of them their field work was last month.

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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited November 8
    Note of caution about the regional YouGov, on many of them their field work was last month.

    I did say, it's from the 17th to 31st of October. It's the data that made them decide to go all out for the election.

    Tastyfish on
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  • JazzJazz Un-UKRegistered User regular
    This may turn out to be a useful resource for keeping it all organised: https://boris-johnson-lies.com

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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Note of caution about the regional YouGov, on many of them their field work was last month.

    I did say, it's from the 17th to 31st of October. It's the data that made them decide to go all out for the election.

    Running to the polls on some shaky polling, I'm getting deja vu here....

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Note of caution about the regional YouGov, on many of them their field work was last month.

    I did say, it's from the 17th to 31st of October. It's the data that made them decide to go all out for the election.

    Running to the polls on some shaky polling, I'm getting deja vu here....

    Corbyn is in for another stunning victory of losing less then the polls predicted, I can feel it!

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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Note of caution about the regional YouGov, on many of them their field work was last month.

    I did say, it's from the 17th to 31st of October. It's the data that made them decide to go all out for the election.

    Running to the polls on some shaky polling, I'm getting deja vu here....

    Go for a long walk in the country, it should clear your head.

  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    How is the suppression of the report into Russian interference not a bigger thing right now? The opposition should be eviscerating them, unless of course the report has unfavourable things to say about labour too

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  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    It would be easy to point at Corbyn and all the times he's shown sympathy for Russian actions or has appeared on Russia Today

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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited November 9
    Prohass wrote: »
    How is the suppression of the report into Russian interference not a bigger thing right now? The opposition should be eviscerating them, unless of course the report has unfavourable things to say about labour too

    There's literally nothing that can happen I think with Parliament dissolved and Government having their hands tied, plus the opposition campaigns are being run on Brexit for the Lib Dems, or on 'the issues' in the case of Labour to contrast against the Tory's Brexit focus.

    Everyone raised a stink about it, then Boris got drunk and said that there would be no checks on goods moving from NI despite what the Bill and his NI secretary said - it'll come back, but too much stuff is happening now and we're too far out. It'll come back in the debates I'm sure (it'll tie into the narrative Labour is building of a few billionaires making the Tories work for them), or if something related comes up but other than just shouting about that, rather than the messaging the campaigns are built around, not a lot you can do if the media don't pick it up and run with it themselves.

    There's been petitions, but with Parliament dissolved, I don't think they'll get a forum to be heard til after the election. Not to mention there's been no leaks of the contents - so it might be vague and scary but not something you can clearly hammer down as obvious wrong doing, which wouldn't change if it were released. Plus right now it's just more "Trump! Russia!" stuff to the Conservative base, so not even that damaging.

    Tastyfish on
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  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Well the point is there is no loophole, Johnson explicitly agreed to a customs border in the Irish seas which means checks on goods. Trying to row back on that now during an election he's either a liar, an idiot or both

    The thing you have to remember is that the point was never to get a better deal than May's.

    It was to get a different deal, no matter how insignificant and/or even worse the changes were to the previous deal, then hold it up as an amazing deal, and that no one else could deliver on a deal that was half as good. Then rely on the extreme likelyhood that trying to explain that you're gaslighting and it isn't the amazing deal you say it is takes longer than the attention span of the average voter.

    It's a Trump foreign policy standard, and I guess Johnson thought it was a good one to replicate.

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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    I don’t much like her politics, but “go fuck yourself, Matt Hancock” is something I can get behind.



    Tory politician.

    JazzGdiguyShadowenH3Knuckles
  • Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo But do you really believe him? Registered User regular
    Ew. There are Tories roaming the streets outside.

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    edited November 9
    I find it very funny that the street I saw our prospective Tory candidate canvassing last week now sports numerous Labour signs in front yards.

    Obviously didn't do very well converting the street to Conservatives.

    SharpyVII on
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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    I find it very funny that the street I saw our prospective Tory candidate canvassing last week now sports numerous Labour signs in front yards.

    Obviously didn't do very well converting the street to Conservatives.

    If I lived in a place where Tories were knocking on doors I'd put a labour sign in my front garden too just to ward the bastards off.

    Still won't vote labour tho.

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  • JazzJazz Un-UKRegistered User regular
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    Ew. There are Tories roaming the streets outside.

    It's getting so we're not safe in our own homes.

  • GaryOGaryO Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    Ew. There are Tories roaming the streets outside.

    It's getting so we're not safe in our own homes.

    The Tories are coming from inside the house!

  • Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Surreal. Immersive. Earth.Registered User regular
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 9
    So has the latest anti-semitic Labour scandal been talked about here yet?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/labour-dan-carden-hey-jews-hey-jude
    A Senior Labour Politician Sang “Hey Jews” To The Song “Hey Jude”

    Another Labour MP repeatedly called his colleague a “poof” during a raucous late-night bus trip last year.
    Dan Carden, who is a close ally of Jeremy Corbyn and serves in his shadow cabinet as the shadow international development secretary, sang the adapted version of the song while on a raucous coach trip back from Cheltenham festival. At the time he was a junior shadow minister.

    Conor McGinn, a former Labour whip who is now reportedly considering standing for the party’s deputy leadership after Tom Watson quit this week, repeatedly branded another colleague a “poof”.

    The incident happened on the evening of Thursday March 15 2018. This reporter was sitting behind Carden and McGinn on a private bus back to London from Cheltenham races. Also present were other Labour MPs as well as MPs from other parties.

    As he and Labour colleagues played music from their phones throughout the two-and-a-half hour ride back to the capital, Carden — a lifelong campaigner on equalities issues — repeatedly sang the chorus of “Hey Jude”, replacing the word “Jude” with “Jews”.

    When the chorus reached the word “Jude”, Carden chanted at the top of his voice: “Jews, Jews, Jews”.
    Carden’s spokesperson did not deny any of the specifics of the night in question when approached by BuzzFeed News. They insisted that he would never “intentionally” engage in racist or anti-Semitic behaviour.

    McGinn was sitting next to another male Labour colleague, who was tired from the day’s events and spent much of the coach journey asleep.

    Several times during the journey, McGinn’s colleague slumped onto him across their seats. McGinn responded by loudly telling his friend to get off him, calling him a “poof”. McGinn repeatedly used the word to describe his colleague throughout the journey.

    McGinn’s spokesperson did not deny that he used the slur, but defended his record on LGBT issues.
    A spokesperson for Carden said: “Daniel Carden has been a committed campaigner in support of LGBT rights and against all forms of racism and hatred, his entire political life. As a homosexual man he would never intentionally engage in homophobic, racist or anti-Semitic behaviour. Had there been genuine concerns as to Daniel’s behaviour then those concerns should have been raised at the time rather than some 20 months later on the eve of a general election.”

    A spokesperson for McGinn said: “Conor’s record as a staunch supporter of the LGBT community speaks for itself. As an MP he led the campaign which delivered a monumental and historic change in the law to finally extend equal marriage to the whole of the UK.”
    Well, that is kind of one of the worst responses they could give.

    Edit:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7667719/Labour-shadow-minister-outraged-claims-belted-Hey-Jews-tune-Hey-Jude.html
    Jeremy Corbyn said today he will investigate allegations that a member of his shadow cabinet sang 'Hey Jews' to the tune of the Beatles song 'Hey Jude', as accusations of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party threaten to derail his election campaign.
    Asked about the reports on a visit to Leeds, Labour leader Mr Corbyn said: 'Dan Carden has emphatically denied that. It is an awful story and if it's true it is utterly and totally unacceptable. I am looking into it.'

    MPs from Labour and other parties were also on the private bus when Mr Carden allegedly chanted 'Jews, Jews, Jews' at the top of his voice as the chorus reached the word 'Jude' - and Mr Carden says if there were any truth in the claims revealed by Buzzfeed, which he categorically denies, it would have emerged at the time, not immediately before a general election
    Just going with the really bad arguments.

    Edit: It looks like a defense is the reporter misheard based on Carden's Scouse accent on a noisy bus, which does not appear to be an argument Carden has made and would have been one of the better arguments instead of what the spokesperson actually said. Shit not getting reported for a long time because it isn't considered to involve anybody important is so common I can't see it as meaning much.

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  • JazzJazz Un-UKRegistered User regular
    Zilla360 wrote: »

    (As I linked halfway up the page - great minds and all that :+1: )

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    So has the latest anti-semitic Labour scandal been talked about here yet?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/labour-dan-carden-hey-jews-hey-jude
    A Senior Labour Politician Sang “Hey Jews” To The Song “Hey Jude”

    Another Labour MP repeatedly called his colleague a “poof” during a raucous late-night bus trip last year.
    Dan Carden, who is a close ally of Jeremy Corbyn and serves in his shadow cabinet as the shadow international development secretary, sang the adapted version of the song while on a raucous coach trip back from Cheltenham festival. At the time he was a junior shadow minister.

    Conor McGinn, a former Labour whip who is now reportedly considering standing for the party’s deputy leadership after Tom Watson quit this week, repeatedly branded another colleague a “poof”.

    The incident happened on the evening of Thursday March 15 2018. This reporter was sitting behind Carden and McGinn on a private bus back to London from Cheltenham races. Also present were other Labour MPs as well as MPs from other parties.

    As he and Labour colleagues played music from their phones throughout the two-and-a-half hour ride back to the capital, Carden — a lifelong campaigner on equalities issues — repeatedly sang the chorus of “Hey Jude”, replacing the word “Jude” with “Jews”.

    When the chorus reached the word “Jude”, Carden chanted at the top of his voice: “Jews, Jews, Jews”.
    Carden’s spokesperson did not deny any of the specifics of the night in question when approached by BuzzFeed News. They insisted that he would never “intentionally” engage in racist or anti-Semitic behaviour.

    McGinn was sitting next to another male Labour colleague, who was tired from the day’s events and spent much of the coach journey asleep.

    Several times during the journey, McGinn’s colleague slumped onto him across their seats. McGinn responded by loudly telling his friend to get off him, calling him a “poof”. McGinn repeatedly used the word to describe his colleague throughout the journey.

    McGinn’s spokesperson did not deny that he used the slur, but defended his record on LGBT issues.
    A spokesperson for Carden said: “Daniel Carden has been a committed campaigner in support of LGBT rights and against all forms of racism and hatred, his entire political life. As a homosexual man he would never intentionally engage in homophobic, racist or anti-Semitic behaviour. Had there been genuine concerns as to Daniel’s behaviour then those concerns should have been raised at the time rather than some 20 months later on the eve of a general election.”

    A spokesperson for McGinn said: “Conor’s record as a staunch supporter of the LGBT community speaks for itself. As an MP he led the campaign which delivered a monumental and historic change in the law to finally extend equal marriage to the whole of the UK.”
    Well, that is kind of one of the worst responses they could give.

    Edit:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7667719/Labour-shadow-minister-outraged-claims-belted-Hey-Jews-tune-Hey-Jude.html
    Jeremy Corbyn said today he will investigate allegations that a member of his shadow cabinet sang 'Hey Jews' to the tune of the Beatles song 'Hey Jude', as accusations of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party threaten to derail his election campaign.
    Asked about the reports on a visit to Leeds, Labour leader Mr Corbyn said: 'Dan Carden has emphatically denied that. It is an awful story and if it's true it is utterly and totally unacceptable. I am looking into it.'

    MPs from Labour and other parties were also on the private bus when Mr Carden allegedly chanted 'Jews, Jews, Jews' at the top of his voice as the chorus reached the word 'Jude' - and Mr Carden says if there were any truth in the claims revealed by Buzzfeed, which he categorically denies, it would have emerged at the time, not immediately before a general election
    Just going with the really bad arguments.

    Jesus christ, what is wrong with these people?

    Can't you just go through your day like a normal person, not making random completely uncalled for references to jews?

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    So has the latest anti-semitic Labour scandal been talked about here yet?

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/labour-dan-carden-hey-jews-hey-jude
    A Senior Labour Politician Sang “Hey Jews” To The Song “Hey Jude”

    Another Labour MP repeatedly called his colleague a “poof” during a raucous late-night bus trip last year.
    Dan Carden, who is a close ally of Jeremy Corbyn and serves in his shadow cabinet as the shadow international development secretary, sang the adapted version of the song while on a raucous coach trip back from Cheltenham festival. At the time he was a junior shadow minister.

    Conor McGinn, a former Labour whip who is now reportedly considering standing for the party’s deputy leadership after Tom Watson quit this week, repeatedly branded another colleague a “poof”.

    The incident happened on the evening of Thursday March 15 2018. This reporter was sitting behind Carden and McGinn on a private bus back to London from Cheltenham races. Also present were other Labour MPs as well as MPs from other parties.

    As he and Labour colleagues played music from their phones throughout the two-and-a-half hour ride back to the capital, Carden — a lifelong campaigner on equalities issues — repeatedly sang the chorus of “Hey Jude”, replacing the word “Jude” with “Jews”.

    When the chorus reached the word “Jude”, Carden chanted at the top of his voice: “Jews, Jews, Jews”.
    Carden’s spokesperson did not deny any of the specifics of the night in question when approached by BuzzFeed News. They insisted that he would never “intentionally” engage in racist or anti-Semitic behaviour.

    McGinn was sitting next to another male Labour colleague, who was tired from the day’s events and spent much of the coach journey asleep.

    Several times during the journey, McGinn’s colleague slumped onto him across their seats. McGinn responded by loudly telling his friend to get off him, calling him a “poof”. McGinn repeatedly used the word to describe his colleague throughout the journey.

    McGinn’s spokesperson did not deny that he used the slur, but defended his record on LGBT issues.
    A spokesperson for Carden said: “Daniel Carden has been a committed campaigner in support of LGBT rights and against all forms of racism and hatred, his entire political life. As a homosexual man he would never intentionally engage in homophobic, racist or anti-Semitic behaviour. Had there been genuine concerns as to Daniel’s behaviour then those concerns should have been raised at the time rather than some 20 months later on the eve of a general election.”

    A spokesperson for McGinn said: “Conor’s record as a staunch supporter of the LGBT community speaks for itself. As an MP he led the campaign which delivered a monumental and historic change in the law to finally extend equal marriage to the whole of the UK.”
    Well, that is kind of one of the worst responses they could give.

    Edit:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7667719/Labour-shadow-minister-outraged-claims-belted-Hey-Jews-tune-Hey-Jude.html
    Jeremy Corbyn said today he will investigate allegations that a member of his shadow cabinet sang 'Hey Jews' to the tune of the Beatles song 'Hey Jude', as accusations of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party threaten to derail his election campaign.
    Asked about the reports on a visit to Leeds, Labour leader Mr Corbyn said: 'Dan Carden has emphatically denied that. It is an awful story and if it's true it is utterly and totally unacceptable. I am looking into it.'

    MPs from Labour and other parties were also on the private bus when Mr Carden allegedly chanted 'Jews, Jews, Jews' at the top of his voice as the chorus reached the word 'Jude' - and Mr Carden says if there were any truth in the claims revealed by Buzzfeed, which he categorically denies, it would have emerged at the time, not immediately before a general election
    Just going with the really bad arguments.

    Jesus christ, what is wrong with these people?

    Can't you just go through your day like a normal person, not making random completely uncalled for references to jews?

    That sounds like something a (((((((((ZIONIST))))))))) would say.
    :P

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited November 9
    Over 20 months ago, or, how to desperately try and make last year sound like the distant past.

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