[Legends of Runeterra]: Plunder a Poro in this Pack-Free Pleaser

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  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    So I got to the highest of highs last night. Diamond 1, 0 LP. I was like "hell yes." This morning I got fucking crushed and I was feeling pretty fucking dismayed? What had happened? Well, I keep track of my wins and losses and for Diamond I wanted to step up my data collection. Originally I was keeping just a straight win loss, but now I have a spreadsheet! Before anyone comments yes I have played a LOT, almost entirely MF Scouts. I noticed I had been on terrible losing streaks the past few mornings, so should I just not play in the mornings? But the last couple mornings before this week didn't seem to be so terrible.

    Well one thing I was putting off was the matchup specific data. I kept track of what I played against, but I just didn't write the excel formulas to calculate it per matchup. When I did this, what did I find? A bevy of terrible matchups in the morning. Scouts does TERRIBLY against Karma/Lux, Bannermen, Endure, and Plunder decks and that's when I played a lot of those. To be sure, I definitely had some favored or even matchups, but sometimes you still lose those, so the odds are stacked against you with that line up.

    Now what to do with this info? Well I checked the spiffy new Mobalytics page to try to confirm. No sense in being reactionary in changing the deck if it's just me being bad. It seems like everyone is having similar issues to me, those decks are bad matchups. Their Karma/Lux is way more even, so maybe I can work on that, but overall, not great. And maybe the Plunder decks aren't as big an issue.

    Okay, how do I fix it? I am running a little off meta version of the deck with Genevieve and some other things to have a strong close. Clearly I am not out-midranging Bannermen, and I know exactly why! Their champs are so much better at that. Vi trades for like three of my cards unless I happen to have Concerted Strike. Combine that with Fiora also being a challenger, and I'm just being out challenged, and my game plan is getting disrupted. Endure I also understand: I'm just too slow. I lose a lot of games to me open attacking and either they have the Atrocity and they win, or they don't and they lose. The easiest route, supposing I want to keep the champs, is to get FASTER. Close out the game better.

    There's an alternate route I've seen, which is to lean more Bilgewater and try to replenish with Plunder. I have seen that, and there are a lot of games I lose to just being totally out of gas. This would cost some tempo and would really be a completely different deck at that point.

    So, that's where I'm at. If anyone has any thoughts, or would like to copy my excel sheet, let me know.

    YiliasIvelliusJimbo
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    Are you sure you're in the collection screen and not the play screen? The decks and the interface all look the same.

    There's a bunch of pretty bad UX issues with the game's interface with how screens look, where buttons are placed, where information is presented, etc, etc. It functional obviously, but it's pretty badly laid out.

    They've fixed a few of them already so it at least seems like they know some of them are there.

    kimeBurtletoy
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    Some things just boggle my mind that they haven't fixed, or that they even started open beta with them. Why do you have to go into the store to see your wildcards? Why can't I choose the card on my deckbox?

    shrykeYilias
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    lwt1973 wrote: »
    I love how you can see the art for the full card in the collection. It's great to see the full sized piece and I wish other games had that.

    And if anyone wants to add me my Riot ID is Viciari NA.

    You can see the art in-game too. It's so pretty!

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  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Wow, countif is way cleaner than the nested sumproduct ifs I've been using. I don't have a Runeterra sheet but maybe some stuff from my Hearthstone one could give you some ideas (drop down menus save a lot of space and look clean).

    As far as tech against midrange decks you could shift your lategame plays more toward removal like more Concerted Strikes or add Detains/Scrapshots, run a big board buff as a closer like Vanguard Sergeant/Brightsteel Formation, or pop in an Unyielding Spirit for Quinn or Genevieve. Your creatures are probably too small to run a Judgement effectively. Those are all gonna be pretty dead cards against Burn though.

    Twitch - Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224
  • lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    Oh look, my first reported name.
    fkyuhard

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
    taliosfalcon
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    lwt1973 wrote: »
    Oh look, my first reported name.
    fkyuhard

    Eh, that's tame.

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Still reportable

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Still reportable

    Only if you're a goose imo

  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited May 22
    Yilias wrote: »
    Wow, countif is way cleaner than the nested sumproduct ifs I've been using. I don't have a Runeterra sheet but maybe some stuff from my Hearthstone one could give you some ideas (drop down menus save a lot of space and look clean).

    As far as tech against midrange decks you could shift your lategame plays more toward removal like more Concerted Strikes or add Detains/Scrapshots, run a big board buff as a closer like Vanguard Sergeant/Brightsteel Formation, or pop in an Unyielding Spirit for Quinn or Genevieve. Your creatures are probably too small to run a Judgement effectively. Those are all gonna be pretty dead cards against Burn though.

    Keeping all the records on one page is a nice touch, although I do try to take notes (hopefully more helpful ones than I started with) to try to see what is and isn't working. It does seem more simple/elegant, and you do have the benefit of being able to more carefully track what decks you swapped to over time. I thought about doing unique game numbering across all decks, so I could track if I switched to something else and when, but it's too complicated to track over multiple sheets. Another thing that would become cumbersome with the one sheet method is having to scroll all the way down to add games and look at the more recent ones.

    I suppose you could use some filter views to get the best of both worlds. I wonder if there's a way to have it automatically add a new row at the top. You also definitely spent time making it look nice, I may have to crib some of your aesthetic choices.

    ChaosHat on
    Yilias
  • KasynKasyn Registered User regular
    I keep a sheet as well. Not so much for the deck stats, though that's in there, but I have a few more qualitative sections: Notes, Matchup Observations, Outright Mistakes. Been pretty good for me so far.

  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Still reportable

    Only if you're a goose imo

    Eh I'm kinda with kime on this, no harm in making little kids change their rude names.

    kimelwt1973PolaritieMNC DoverChaosHatshrykeThisDarkewolfe
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Still reportable

    Only if you're a goose imo

    Eh I'm kinda with kime on this, no harm in making little kids change their rude names.

    It's not even clever. Report every time.

    kimeDarkewolfe
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited May 23
    So wanted to take a break from ranked. Play the TF plunder deck vs the AI to finish out that quest, should be good to go. Hit the button, look at the TV. Look back, check the name of the AI's deck. It's like "Wobbles243" or something. That's a pretty weird name for an AI dec-

    Oh shit. It's ranked. Cue the heart attack, the Matrix "Not like this" meme.

    I've only ever played the deck once vs the AI to clear a plunder quest. I've undone much of the damage of my disastrous morning, would hate to end on a down note due to my not paying attention. I'm tempted to just fucking concede on the spot. I wanted a relaxing game, not a ranked match with a deck I'm pretty unfamiliar with.

    Whatever. Let's do this. It's Corina control. It's gonna be a fucking nightmare.

    Actually I just stalled him out, windmill slammed two stolen Ledros and murder him. Card theft is fucking broken guys. Finished the quest too.

    ChaosHat on
    kimeYiliasgigawatt666The JudgeJimbo
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    If you ever feel bad about a loss, just remember that you didn’t get decked to a Maokai deck with a Lux’s Prismatic Barrier in your hand THE WHOLE TIME.

    YL9WnCY.png
    MNC Dover
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Still reportable

    Only if you're a goose imo

    Eh I'm kinda with kime on this, no harm in making little kids change their rude names.

    It's not even clever. Report every time.

    It's fuck why you hard . What's the problem really? It's harmless.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Still reportable

    Only if you're a goose imo

    Eh I'm kinda with kime on this, no harm in making little kids change their rude names.

    It's not even clever. Report every time.

    It's fuck why you hard . What's the problem really? It's harmless.

    Actually I'm pretty sure it's "fuck you hard" and I have no idea why you want to go to the mat for this childish crap.

    kimelwt1973SeGaTaitaliosfalconDarkewolfestopgap
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Still reportable

    Only if you're a goose imo

    Eh I'm kinda with kime on this, no harm in making little kids change their rude names.

    It's not even clever. Report every time.

    It's fuck why you hard . What's the problem really? It's harmless.

    Actually I'm pretty sure it's "fuck you hard" and I have no idea why you want to go to the mat for this childish crap.

    I guess I grade on a curve and have actually seen offensive shit for names.

  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    Sterica wrote: »
    If you ever feel bad about a loss, just remember that you didn’t get decked to a Maokai deck with a Lux’s Prismatic Barrier in your hand THE WHOLE TIME.

    I lost a game because I could have rallied in response to his decimate, meaning I would have attacked before he did. That felt pretty shitty.

  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »

    I guess I grade on a curve and have actually seen offensive shit for names.
    I actually don't find it offensive either, but as it definitely lacks creativity, that's a good reason to do it.

    I demand better of people.

    XBL: Bizazedo
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    CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
    MNC DoverChaosHatDarkewolfe
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    In Ranked, how do I know what the name of the rank I am is? All I can tell is "different shades of metallic-y colors." I assume they actually have names?

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  • lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    I got two 7 win expeditions. One a frostbite everything With Ashe and another with Blast everything with Ezreal and Vi. Both fun decks to play.

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
    MNC Dover
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    In Ranked, how do I know what the name of the rank I am is? All I can tell is "different shades of metallic-y colors." I assume they actually have names?

    LoR-Ranked-Beta-Season.png

    Iron - Bronze - Silver - Gold
    Platinum - Diamond - Masters

    Twitch - Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224
    kimeIvelliusMNC Dover
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited May 23
    Edit

    Burtletoy on
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited May 23
    I can't believe I ever played without three rallies in this deck. The number of games I've won on a turn 5 play Quinn and attack three times is insane. I was afraid to draw too many but you absolutely always want to see at least one and I've double rallied a bunch to steal the game. Or rally on my turn and then on theirs.

    ChaosHat on
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I do wish they’d add the ranked level your at by writing the name underneath it. Also, when you win or lose a game, show your old point total, won/lost points, and new total.

    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    I wish they'd let you free play expeditions without doing your weekly ones first, expeditions are by far the best part of the game to me ( more emphasis on draft skill and gameplay vs who googled the better deck to use) and dumping shards into it to unlock free play after I've used my tokens every week makes me a sad panda as it's a 50/50 whether I'll do good enough to recoup the shards or not

  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I wish they'd let you free play expeditions without doing your weekly ones first, expeditions are by far the best part of the game to me ( more emphasis on draft skill and gameplay vs who googled the better deck to use) and dumping shards into it to unlock free play after I've used my tokens every week makes me a sad panda as it's a 50/50 whether I'll do good enough to recoup the shards or not

    With the token, it’s only 4K shards/week. As the game progresses, you’ll start acquiring lots of cards and get a lot more shard overflow.

    So unless you plan on playing Ranked anytime soon, feel free to drop the shards each week to play the mode you like!

    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I wish they'd let you free play expeditions without doing your weekly ones first, expeditions are by far the best part of the game to me ( more emphasis on draft skill and gameplay vs who googled the better deck to use) and dumping shards into it to unlock free play after I've used my tokens every week makes me a sad panda as it's a 50/50 whether I'll do good enough to recoup the shards or not

    With the token, it’s only 4K shards/week. As the game progresses, you’ll start acquiring lots of cards and get a lot more shard overflow.

    So unless you plan on playing Ranked anytime soon, feel free to drop the shards each week to play the mode you like!

    Since the expedition change (no champ, 3k to 2k) I haven't been doing many and I have so many tokens and shards. At 2k it's so easy to do 3 a week with the free token, I just don't know if the value is worth it ant more. Still my favorite mode though.

  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I wish they'd let you free play expeditions without doing your weekly ones first, expeditions are by far the best part of the game to me ( more emphasis on draft skill and gameplay vs who googled the better deck to use) and dumping shards into it to unlock free play after I've used my tokens every week makes me a sad panda as it's a 50/50 whether I'll do good enough to recoup the shards or not

    With the token, it’s only 4K shards/week. As the game progresses, you’ll start acquiring lots of cards and get a lot more shard overflow.

    So unless you plan on playing Ranked anytime soon, feel free to drop the shards each week to play the mode you like!

    Since the expedition change (no champ, 3k to 2k) I haven't been doing many and I have so many tokens and shards. At 2k it's so easy to do 3 a week with the free token, I just don't know if the value is worth it ant more. Still my favorite mode though.

    I did the math for it the other day: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/42331252/#Comment_42331252

    They're profitable at any collection level if you can post a 70% winrate.
    If you have a sub 70% winrate then they're profitable until you have a full set of epics.
    Even if you only have a 40% winrate and every reward is a duplicate then your expected losses for all 3 runs is 1.7k shards plus the token, and if you bump that up to a 50% winrate then its a loss of 700 shards plus the token, which is pretty coverable by the weekly vault if you just want to jam expeditions for fun.

    Twitch - Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I never really think about the rewards much these days since I’m unlocking so much every week anyway. I went 7/6/1 this week for 3.2k shards, a net loss of 900 shards. Granted, I probably can’t do that every week, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to spend only 3k each week.

    Add in any extra cards and the three Epic capsules and I don’t feel like the rewards are a a huge loss. It probably just stings a bit more since there is no guaranteed champion anymore.

    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited May 24
    I have been in this nightmare limbo of Diamond 1, give or take two or three games. Getting within two wins of master and then losing three in a row was fucking heartbreaking. It also feels awful to get paired against masters players. I get that I'm probably getting the shitty ones who are fucking around but still.

    I just need to keep reminding myself that I'm good enough and it's just going to take a little bit of luck, getting hot at the right time.

    ChaosHat on
    IvelliusMNC Dover
  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    So I probably have enough cards/wild cards to make both an aggro deck and a control deck. Where do I go to look at decklists? I don't ranked/constructed much mainly expedition just want something for quests.

  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    edited May 24
    RickRude wrote: »
    So I probably have enough cards/wild cards to make both an aggro deck and a control deck. Where do I go to look at decklists? I don't ranked/constructed much mainly expedition just want something for quests.

    Check out this site for some meta lists. The Championless aggro deck is beyond cheap. Literally all Commons and Rares.

    Although, I've been using Swimstrim's site myself. Probably overlap between them. I've been playing the Stand Alone OTK deck and it has hard carried me through Silver and most of Gold. It even has a budget version.

    MNC Dover on
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  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited May 24
    Alright it's the day before the balance patch notes! Put your predictions or wish lists in here and we can see who's right!
    Boomcrew Rookie: -1 hp. It's unanswerable at the mana cost it's at. This would let it lose to 3/xs, get excited, grasp of the undying, or a saved up thermogenic beam

    Imperial Demolitionist or Crimson Disciple: I do think this being a cheaper decimate you can spread out over time is really strong, but I don't see a way you can fix the Demolitionist and have it still be viable. You could try to increase the cost of either part by one, but I think switching the disciple's p/t would work. You'd lose theoretically two damage from a trigger, but you'd make it up as an attacker if you could get in. I think one of these cards gets looked at though. It's free easy damage and they're also bodies.

    Decimate or Noxian Fervor: the last of my theoretical burn changes, I think going up on mana cost for either of these would be fine. It's hard to tune the numbers on Fervor, maybe make it deal 2 to both targets for 2 mana? You couldn't do that if you left the disciple at 3 hp I think.

    Grizzled Ranger: I don't think this card is actually as good as it feels. It obviously feels bad but a large percentage of the time it's dealing a lot of damage to a small creature, like a spider. It overall reminds me of a ball lightning effect from Magic that leaves a creature behind. A burn spell with card advantage but you also can't target. I think you could get away with -1 damage, or a fun effect would be to give it ephemeral, so it really IS more like a burn spell. You could also give badgerbear the same nerf.

    Eye of the Dragon: I thought I was done with basic card nerfs, but then I remembered this card. I think this card is very borderline too good right now but would be oppressively strong in a world with weaker Bannermen and Burn. This is basically needed right now so you can have late game decks that don't have SI, but afterwards might close aggro decks out of the meta. -1 hp or +1 cost I think would be okay.

    Plunder draw enemy cards: I kind of hate this mechanic but I understand it's more of a "feels bad" than "is broken." At the very least this should draw from the bottom and not the top to help out the freljord "buff the next creature" mechanic. If they wanted to say, make it more expensive or reveal the drawn cards, all the better.

    Karma: I think karma is pretty broken but changing her would basically mean an entirely new leveled up power and I don't know how to fix that without changing the entire landscape of the game right now. She may also be beyond the scope of a mere balance patch. Tweaking her numbers doesn't do that much, it just changes how binary she is. If she sticks, it's hard to lose the game. Nerfing deep meditation might be a start though.

    Vi: Vi is so ridiculously good and for all the complaints about rangers or Unyielding Spirit, you never hear about her. 5 hp tough is so, so hard to deal with. She ruins boards because she gets so strong so fast, if you keep her in your starting hand (you should) she can easily be a 5/5 tough challenger for 5. And she gets bigger! She's so oppressive and in my opinion far and away the best champ of the expansion. She might even be the best champ in the game. Is an end game Karma better? Sure, but Vi is so strong at such a crucial point in the game. Karma also needs a lot of help and planning your deck around her to get there, Vi rewards you for playing the game. Vi is also potentially a win con by herself, Karma is a combo piece.

    I'm not sure what to buff. I definitely think Noxus and Frel could use help but it might be better to see if they could rebound with a less oppressive aggro meta. I could see catalyst of aeons granting more hp, especially when enlightened, as a path for freljord. The goal is to keep burn around as a low tier 1 to mid tier 2 deck that can rise up and smack overly greedy decks down as needed. Burn aggro is like a shark. You need sharks. It keeps the fat fish from outcompeting the small ones, you just don't want it to be 25% sharks.

    Anyways, thems my thoughts. I'm sure there will be more, the first patch of the cycle is supposed to be a bigger one, but I think these are almost certainly getting changed.

    ChaosHat on
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular
    There's definitely no situation where something from Burn doesn't get hit.


    I'm not sure what I hope for in buffs. Generally speaking I'd like it if all champions could have something going for them in ranked rather than just being cool Expedition archetypes, but I'm not sure you make something like Sejuani actually competitive.

    VQqUwhO.png
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    For nerfs, I’d guess the following:

    Boomcrew Rookie: either -1hp or +1 mana.
    Crimson Disciple and/or Imperial Demolitionist: -1 attack.
    Used Cask Salesman: Casks can’t block or attack
    Karma: doubles the first Burst, Fast, and Slow spell each turn.
    Grizzled Ranger: change to a 1/4 or 3/1
    Vi: Mana cost +1 or attack -2
    Commander Ledros: nexus damage rounded down
    Eye of the Dragon: -1hp

    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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  • ThisThis Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Since the expedition change (no champ, 3k to 2k) I haven't been doing many and I have so many tokens and shards. At 2k it's so easy to do 3 a week with the free token, I just don't know if the value is worth it ant more. Still my favorite mode though.

    Yeah, I stopped playing them when they messed with the cost/reward structure. Started playing a few since the expansion came out to play with new cards.

    But I did a 7-win Expedition the other day and got all dupes and a crappy epic. Kinda kills my excitement to do more of them.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    This wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    Since the expedition change (no champ, 3k to 2k) I haven't been doing many and I have so many tokens and shards. At 2k it's so easy to do 3 a week with the free token, I just don't know if the value is worth it ant more. Still my favorite mode though.

    Yeah, I stopped playing them when they messed with the cost/reward structure. Started playing a few since the expansion came out to play with new cards.

    But I did a 7-win Expedition the other day and got all dupes and a crappy epic. Kinda kills my excitement to do more of them.

    Getting all dupes and an epic/champ you didn't already have is basically what happens to all the reward systems in this game if you play a decent amount. With no dupe protection on commons and rares, once you've even just got a little over half of them in your collection, odds are better then not that you get a dupe. Before Rising Tides dropped like 3/4s of the rewards I got from vault were dupes turned into shards.

  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    For nerfs, I’d guess the following:

    Boomcrew Rookie: either -1hp or +1 mana.
    Crimson Disciple and/or Imperial Demolitionist: -1 attack.
    Used Cask Salesman: Casks can’t block or attack
    Karma: doubles the first Burst, Fast, and Slow spell each turn.
    Grizzled Ranger: change to a 1/4 or 3/1
    Vi: Mana cost +1 or attack -2
    Commander Ledros: nexus damage rounded down
    Eye of the Dragon: -1hp

    That's a really good change for cask I hadn't thought of. I did think that cask salesman was too good at stopping counter aggression but all of my thoughts were if you reduce the number of casks or his mana cost he's probably unplayable.

    I don't know if Grizzled Ranger is still played at a 1/4.

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