[Legends of Runeterra]: Procure a Precious Poro of Palette Plumage for Pride

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  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Unyielding explicitly says I can't die! But yes you need to recall, obliterate, or stall with stun/freeze/etc.

    t1iylq0d7o1p.png
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    The Judge wrote: »
    The Ruination says "Kill ALL Units" - what's the point of capitalization/emphasis if gives Unyielding Spirit a pass? Arrrrrgggggh.

    My opponent had five Zed's - three Ephemeral - with the tag at the time, so I'm kind of annoyed and grasping at straws. But what's the counter? Recall effects or bust at that point?

    It's to clarify that it wrecks your units as well. In not sure how recall works with Unyielding, but obliterate will take care of it.

    Recall will return them to hand and cleanse them of all buffs.

    MNC Dover
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Been testing out the new Braum. I feel like he's still weak, at least in this meta. He's not elusive, so that's a huge mark against him from the start. And he's super vulnerable to hard removal and/or recall effects. Both of which are in the same right now very popular region too.

    I feel like after the last meta being pretty good we've somehow circled back around to nothing but elusive toxic crap again.

    Braum is weak to recall or removal? He's definitely way better than he used to be, he can leave behind a 3/3 and then he gets reset so he can make another one in the case of bounce.

    Both. He's better then he used to be and the 3/3 you get before level-up means you can at least probably break-even on summoning him and him being almost immediately shit-canned instead of the old Braum where you'd go negative in value when he's removed. But he's still a target you want to be buffing in a low of cases, especially if you are trying to deal with elusive decks and so he becomes a huge value proposition for the opponent to use hard removal spells on.

    And hey, one region right now has both elusives and hard removal.

  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    3QRMgof.png

    Kinkou Elusives got there without dropping a single game.

    MNC DoverYiliasBrodyThisThe Judgegigawatt666
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Been testing out the new Braum. I feel like he's still weak, at least in this meta. He's not elusive, so that's a huge mark against him from the start. And he's super vulnerable to hard removal and/or recall effects. Both of which are in the same right now very popular region too.

    I feel like after the last meta being pretty good we've somehow circled back around to nothing but elusive toxic crap again.

    Braum is weak to recall or removal? He's definitely way better than he used to be, he can leave behind a 3/3 and then he gets reset so he can make another one in the case of bounce.

    Both. He's better then he used to be and the 3/3 you get before level-up means you can at least probably break-even on summoning him and him being almost immediately shit-canned instead of the old Braum where you'd go negative in value when he's removed. But he's still a target you want to be buffing in a low of cases, especially if you are trying to deal with elusive decks and so he becomes a huge value proposition for the opponent to use hard removal spells on.

    And hey, one region right now has both elusives and hard removal.

    Ionia has hard removal?

  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    "Dover, why do you still run Expeditions? They're terrible value."
    "Because sometimes, this happens..."

    Expeditions are really good value though! I've talked about this before! I guess tables are kind of boring though, so maybe people will look at graphs instead.

    Here's expected returns based on collection completeness and number of wins:
    oc1ZSTi.png?1

    Most accounts are in the region between blue and red, which is not every epic and some percentage of the commons/rares, requiring at most 5 wins to break even and probably only 3-4. You don't need to get 6+ wins until you have every epic.

    Ok, so what are the odds of doing well enough to break even? Here's the likelihoods of an exact finish (across both runs) based on your overall winrate:
    xBTgCed.png?2

    and the likelihoods of a minimum finish based on your overall winrate:
    8p8FJBb.png?1

    And finally we combine these to get the chart that actually informs the decision on profitability; expected returns based on winrate:
    HtHQYfD.png?2

    If you don't have every epic you only need at most a 45% winrate to break even, which is the collection status of most players and an easily achievable level of ability.

    The less common group of people that have every epic and a big chunk of the rest of the collection need around a 60% winrate to break even, which is nontrivial but doable.

    Twitch - Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    Requeued up for it, went 6-1 with my custom version of non Bannermen scouts. Lost the last one to a Braum Vlad deck.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    I fucking hate Karma so much.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
  • KelorKelor Registered User regular
    7-1'd my first gauntlet with Braum/Vlad midrange.

    Avalanche put in so much work against all the elusive and Shadow Isles decks.

    ChaosHatMNC DoverBrody
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    What's your deck, I've wanted to make Vlad work

    t1iylq0d7o1p.png
  • KelorKelor Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    What's your deck, I've wanted to make Vlad work

    This is what I've been using.
    CEBQEAIBBE3AEAQDAQFAKAIDCUNB4LZQAIAQCAIUAQAQGBAGCAMQCAYBAMJRMKQ

    I don't have a third Vlad, so I started out with Darius, then Sejuani and am currently trying Kat. I felt Sej did everything Darius was doing plus some more. Kat is trying to leverage early game more effectively against decks trying to go bigger.

    It's more of a meta choice against all the aggressive decks, the removal isn't really designed for Deep decks and I could see Demacian ramping its units to just be bigger than yours.

    Although the deck has a lot of low drops, it's really just looking to stick Crimson units early on and trade until it can roll out the more powerful three drops and either ride them to victory or force your opponent to start making two for ones to deal with them.

    Trifarian Hopeful I rarely play early, he's at his best when you're dropping him alongside another three drop after wiping the field clean so you can swing big the following turn.

    Demolitionist I keep wanting to take out, but it's a great source early game for getting Vlad ready. I've been eying Legion Veteran and Basilisk Rider.

    Armoured Tuskriders are there because they also trade very well, but I want to give Scarmother Vrynna and maybe Aurok Glinthorn. Set up a finishing turn with Avalanche the turn before then drop him at six and go in.

    Braum and Legion Marauders are all stars.

    lwt1973
  • SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    7-0 with DEEP - deck still good

    PSN SeGaTai
    MNC DoverBrody
  • ThisThis Registered User regular
    I just watched a Legends of Runeterra tournament, quite enjoyed it - decent casting. Twitch link to the VOD below.
    看看這支影片「[Fight Night Legends] Cast by Casanova & Blevins http://www.twitch.tv/giantslayertv/v/662433831?sr=a&t=13507s

    MNC Dover
  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    edited June 28
    Yilias wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    "Dover, why do you still run Expeditions? They're terrible value."
    "Because sometimes, this happens..."

    Expeditions are really good value though! I've talked about this before! I guess tables are kind of boring though, so maybe people will look at graphs instead.

    [...]

    If you don't have every epic you only need at most a 45% winrate to break even, which is the collection status of most players and an easily achievable level of ability.

    The less common group of people that have every epic and a big chunk of the rest of the collection need around a 60% winrate to break even, which is nontrivial but doable.
    This is operating under the assumption that a random epic is worth the 1,200 shards it would have taken to craft it, which really isn't true. Most epics see no play, and you have wildcards to buy most of the handful that do. My limited experience is that champions are responsible for pretty much 100% of the resource gating on deckbuilding. They're the only cards I ever want to be spending shards on if I can help it, and expeditions don't do much for you in that department.

    Wyvern on
    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
    shrykeThis
  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    I play expedition because it's the only mode I'm not solely playing against people who've imported whichever decks are currently top of the meta which gets very boring, to hell with the value *shrug*

  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    All regions to level 25. Vault to level 12. I think I'll skip completing my quest tomorrow to maybe get a level 13 Vault next week.

    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
    Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    You get proportionally way more epic wildcards than rares, more epics are pretty worthless.
    Kelor wrote: »
    Coinage wrote: »
    What's your deck, I've wanted to make Vlad work

    This is what I've been using.
    CEBQEAIBBE3AEAQDAQFAKAIDCUNB4LZQAIAQCAIUAQAQGBAGCAMQCAYBAMJRMKQ

    I don't have a third Vlad, so I started out with Darius, then Sejuani and am currently trying Kat. I felt Sej did everything Darius was doing plus some more. Kat is trying to leverage early game more effectively against decks trying to go bigger.

    It's more of a meta choice against all the aggressive decks, the removal isn't really designed for Deep decks and I could see Demacian ramping its units to just be bigger than yours.

    Although the deck has a lot of low drops, it's really just looking to stick Crimson units early on and trade until it can roll out the more powerful three drops and either ride them to victory or force your opponent to start making two for ones to deal with them.

    Trifarian Hopeful I rarely play early, he's at his best when you're dropping him alongside another three drop after wiping the field clean so you can swing big the following turn.

    Demolitionist I keep wanting to take out, but it's a great source early game for getting Vlad ready. I've been eying Legion Veteran and Basilisk Rider.

    Armoured Tuskriders are there because they also trade very well, but I want to give Scarmother Vrynna and maybe Aurok Glinthorn. Set up a finishing turn with Avalanche the turn before then drop him at six and go in.

    Braum and Legion Marauders are all stars.
    Huh that's way more noxus than I would do. I think you really want ember maiden in that style of deck, at least

    t1iylq0d7o1p.png
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited June 29
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    All regions to level 25. Vault to level 12. I think I'll skip completing my quest tomorrow to maybe get a level 13 Vault next week.

    Start saving your expeditions! There can't be anything you could possibly need out of the game right now, start that stockpile to play with new cards.

    Just hit Noxus 24, only other faction not maxed is PnZ at 12.

    ChaosHat on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    7 win Gauntlet finally achieved!

    Took like 6-7 tries. And 3 shots at game 7. I didn't even feel bad stomping that poor bastard into the ground. It felt really skin of my teeth at the end, cause it he just avoided death on 2 different turns. But realistically looking at his hand at the end, he was completely out of cards just barely holding on.

    But man, this week's Gauntlet really exposes how much randomness plays a part in this game. Mostly just as a function of it being a card game. I lost my first 2 7-win shots and won my third basically entirely on the card draws as far as I could tell. First two attempts I drew crap, basically no units to put on the board, and got run over. Final attempt he seemed to draw like complete crap and had no units or champs to put down and so I just ran right over him once his removal ran out of gas.

    I'm intrigued by how this will go once there's actual rules you have to adhere to though and it's not just mostly people netdecking the most meta decks.

    MNC Dover
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    I would loooooove to see a best 2 of 3 format for those reasons. And sideboards!

    Swim's tier list is up and it's uh, grim if you don't like fliers. Only two tier 1 decks are kinkou elusives and Heimer vi.

    Soooo only three more weeks of this meta!

    TheBlackWind
  • VladimerVladimer Registered User regular
    I think I'm gonna take a break. I don't like where things are going and when I face something like a stalling Karma, I just lose patience. I don't consider double casting a skilled play.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited June 29
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    I would loooooove to see a best 2 of 3 format for those reasons. And sideboards!

    Swim's tier list is up and it's uh, grim if you don't like fliers. Only two tier 1 decks are kinkou elusives and Heimer vi.

    Soooo only three more weeks of this meta!

    Yeah, currently it looks like Elusives are back in force and just ... ugh. It's intriguing how seemingly small shifts in balance lead to large meta shifts but it's annoying when it happens this way.

    That Kinkou Elusives deck got me my 7 wins in gauntlet though, so it was at least good for something.

    shryke on
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited June 29
    @Vladimer I'm surprised you're seeing so much Karma. I think I could count how much I've seen her on one hand since the nerf. If you want to talk about what deck you're using and what you're seeing we could probably give advice!

    @shryke I mean ultimately that's probably a good thing right? It means that a lot of things are real close in power level so tiny nudges do matter. I feel like the elusives are more hated than straight up burn and if this continues I feel like riot might address it before the formal balance patch. We do have another week to see where things go though.

    Also, there is a large and vast tier 2 so that's also pretty good. There are lots of ways to handicap Heimer so there's no shortage of options from making the elusives not the 3 cost minion to changing flash of brilliance. The generic pile of elusives is maybe more troublesome. Elusive burn and kinkou kind of operate in different ways and have different stars of the show. Greenglade duo is probably the biggest offender, especially for kinkou due to the title card, but changing it to 1 power probably doesn't change that much, and a mana cost increase makes it start to seem real uncompetitive with Shadow Assassin.

    Also: the last twitch prime capsule is available now.

    ChaosHat on
    TheBlackWind
  • VladimerVladimer Registered User regular
    edited June 30
    It isn't something I face often, but when I do I find I don't enjoy the game enough to sit through some idiot stalling out a game and watch them dump their hand on double casts.

    I appreciate it, but not looking for meta help. It just isn't passing the fun test.

    Burst spells are going to be a long-term problem for this game because they seem to undervalue them internally.

    Vladimer on
  • TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    Didn’t look at gauntlet till this morning. Realized it ended tomorrow, so I took piloted Heimer Vi to a smooth 7-0.

    I assume the Ashe-Sejuani deck feeds on elusives? I saw way more than I expected. My first 4 games were against kinkou and my last 3 that deck.

    PAD ID - 328,762,218
    MNC DovershrykeChaosHat
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Found myself in a weird spot today. Since I’ve maxed all the regions, and it’s Monday with my Vault needing 4K xp, there isn’t any incentive to finish the quest. I figured I’d just try ranking up, but my quest is block or be blocked 20 times.

    So...no Runeterra for me today.

    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
    Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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  • The JudgeThe Judge The Terwilliger CurvesRegistered User regular
    Just wrapped up a seven-win Gauntlet on the back of Dover's Braun/Anivia deck.

    I'm missing one of each Champ, but I replaced them with 2x Rhasa and that worked out nice.

    It took more than few games to get the handle of it. I tend to play more aggressive that this deck requires/demands but once I finally started laying back? Yep yep yep.

    Last pint: WanderJack / Breakside/Barley Brown's
    Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
    MNC DoverChaosHat
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    The Judge wrote: »
    Just wrapped up a seven-win Gauntlet on the back of Dover's Braun/Anivia deck.

    I'm missing one of each Champ, but I replaced them with 2x Rhasa and that worked out nice.

    It took more than few games to get the handle of it. I tend to play more aggressive that this deck requires/demands but once I finally started laying back? Yep yep yep.

    That's awesome! Glad to hear you had success. Seeing Anivia/Braum show up on Swim's meta list at number 3 was pretty cool. My list isn't much different from the list shown, so it feels good to know I was pretty close in my deck building process.

    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
    Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
    Steam ID
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    TheBlackWindThe Judge
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited June 30
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Found myself in a weird spot today. Since I’ve maxed all the regions, and it’s Monday with my Vault needing 4K xp, there isn’t any incentive to finish the quest. I figured I’d just try ranking up, but my quest is block or be blocked 20 times.

    So...no Runeterra for me today.

    C'mon Dover! You're telling me you can't crack off a smooth 15-0 to level up that vault today?

    @Vladimer I feel like most burst spells are fine, they're usually a lot of buff spells which is a nice change from mtg because it makes them useful instead of just getting 2 for 1'd on the stack. Which ones do you think are super problematic?

    Two champs today! Anivia and Katarina. Now just missing one Kat, one Tryndamere, and two Teemo. 7/5/12/32 for wildcards, 14768 shards.

    ChaosHat on
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Vault went better than I expected, got 3 epics and 2 epic wildcards. Now at

    Commons: 536 out of 594, 329 WC, 90%
    Rares: 378 out of 450, 118 WC, 84%
    Epics: 155 out of 171, 34 WC, 91%
    Champions: 92 out of 105, 27 WC, 88%
    Shards: 48363
    Regions: 25 across the board

    Still missing a couple staples; namely Sejuanis, Deep Meditations, and Gotcha!s, but I enjoy the ever growing dragon's hoard.

    Twitch - Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224
    MNC Dover
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Game Designer/Stay-at-home Dad Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 30
    My Vault had a surprising amount of upgraded WCs. My first row of 5 was all, non-upgraded Common WC. I did a double take to see if it was a special thing or whatever. Only Commons/Rares this week, which I suppose is about right.

    Commons: 569 out of 594, 204 WC, 96%
    Rares: 405 out of 450, 94 WC, 90%
    Epics: 171 out of 171, 32 WC, 100%
    Champions: 103 out of 108, 14 WC, 95%
    Shards: 66588
    Regions: 25 across the board

    MNC Dover on
    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
    Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
    Steam ID
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    Yilias
  • lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    Due to personal issues I haven't been able to play as much so I didn't max out the Vault this week or last. This week I did get a surprise:

    zoqhc13vg2qd.gif

    Guess that helps after all the stuff I've been going through.

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
    YiliasshrykeThe JudgeChaosHatBrodyMNC DoverJimbo
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I got a total of 7 commons and 5 rares that weren't dupes out of a lvl 13 vault. Sigh.

  • TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    My vault stunk it up this week. No champs, only 1 rare WC.

    At least Twitch Prime rewards dropped today!

    PAD ID - 328,762,218
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited June 30
    Damn double mf vault pretty good.

    It's interesting to look at the mobalytics tier list compared to swim's because even though he's one of the people who helps make that list, it's pretty different from his own, even down to the existence of certain archetypes. You can see that alanzq at least thinks some Ezreal decks are still pretty good, totally eschewing the Karma for TF or Vi.

    I've been basically treading water in low platinum lately, kinkou elusives isn't the most fun thing to play so I think I might change it. I'm hesitant to go back to my bread and butter scouts because their elusive matchup is so garbage. I might try to seriously ladder with Ashe/Sej or Sej/MF.

    ChaosHat on
  • The JudgeThe Judge The Terwilliger CurvesRegistered User regular
    Vault rewards were pretty basic and no notable upgrades.

    But I also just had a single Epic reward on the Noxus tree upgrade to Champion for my third Vlad, so I ain't complaining about luck today.

    Last pint: WanderJack / Breakside/Barley Brown's
    Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    How many sets do you guys think we'll get before they start a rotation? (Not a balance complaint, just thinking)

    Twitch - Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224
  • ChaosHatChaosHat Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    edited June 30
    Yilias wrote: »
    How many sets do you guys think we'll get before they start a rotation? (Not a balance complaint, just thinking)

    YEAAAARS. It's almost not worth worrying about right now because if it lasts that long hooray. Rising Tides is 122 cards, and Magic sets are what, three times that many, and only rotate after four sets annually. So maybe in three years. Maybe. I'm assuming the new card release pattern is the same number of cards per region but split over smaller drops, so that could change. It also behooves them to have a larger card pool to make it more difficult for f2p players to own a given percentage of available cards.

    Netrunner didn't even live long enough to see rotation and it was planned for after 8 years.

    ChaosHat on
    TheBlackWind
  • The JudgeThe Judge The Terwilliger CurvesRegistered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    That's awesome! Glad to hear you had success.

    I got murdered, MURDERED, for the first four games or so and was close to posting about this trash-ass deck you had no business suckering people into playing. My bad.

    You should consider naming it A.F. Kay because skipping the first three turns is actually legit gameplay.

    Last pint: WanderJack / Breakside/Barley Brown's
    Untappd: TheJudge_PDX
    MNC Dover
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. Registered User regular
    (pushes glasses up) not true, Netrunner had a rotation in october 2017, it's part of the reason that they published the Revised Core Set

    then next year wotc canceled the deal, and FFG could no longer sell product in october 2018

    VQqUwhO.png
    TheBlackWindBrody
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