And plus just in general, the duties of a Marshal are tracking fugitives, protecting government officials, and handling witness protection business (all of which the show displays). They don't spend much time investigating crime scenes, developing leads, or questioning suspects. They're told "this person is a fugitive, you need to find them." They don't care what they did or if they actually did it. A detective is trying to get to the truth behind the matter at hand.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
And plus just in general, the duties of a Marshal are tracking fugitives, protecting government officials, and handling witness protection business (all of which the show displays). They don't spend much time investigating crime scenes, developing leads, or questioning suspects. They're told "this person is a fugitive, you need to find them." They don't care what they did or if they actually did it. A detective is trying to get to the truth behind the matter at hand.
All of this is true.
And yet he spends a not insignificant amount of time trying to solve basic crimes and mysteries.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I'm not sure he qualifies as a detective, I think he's just literally a cop. Like, FBI agent = federal detective, U.S. Marshal = federal cop. He just goes around beating people up and not giving a shit about the rights of private citizens. You know, like a cop.
I dunno, he wears the veneer of a detective pretty well for most of the show's runtime.
Raylan always comes across as a marshal from a western transported to our time. Like he observes and uses his coal mining background to generally puzzle out the crimes of the people he's chasing, but it feels like he's just working up to the showdown. Also helps most of the criminals on justified aren't master criminals. Even my boy Boyd is pretty much coasting on violence, silver tongue, and that Harlan generally looks after its own to do his shit.
The book version was less shooty than tv version though. Like TV version when he kills Tommy Bucks it feels like that's just another notch for TV Raylan, for book Raylan that was his first shooting.
That was probably literally the elevator pitch for the show.
Well it was how the three short stories the character was in read. I mean its Elmore Leonard, Mr. 3:10 to Yuma himself, but still I felt they did a really good job building on the character after season 1 was like very episodic and fugitive of the week. And the other 5 are more overall story with occasional loose fugitive/god damn it Dewey Crowe.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
And plus just in general, the duties of a Marshal are tracking fugitives, protecting government officials, and handling witness protection business (all of which the show displays). They don't spend much time investigating crime scenes, developing leads, or questioning suspects. They're told "this person is a fugitive, you need to find them." They don't care what they did or if they actually did it. A detective is trying to get to the truth behind the matter at hand.
All of this is true.
And yet he spends a not insignificant amount of time trying to solve basic crimes and mysteries.
Kind of, in a very "I know you're doing crimes cuz I grew up around here, and I don't like you so I'm gonna get ya. Or just hurt ya." Like just about everything he does is personal, and he comes off feeling more like a bounty hunter than anything.
Mainly to me, he does a few things that a detective might do, but I wouldn't characterize him as a detective. An evaluation isn't that interesting to me because it would just come down to "he hits people he doesn't like till they tell him what he wants to hear." Again, great show and story, but not much in the way of what I like about detective stories.
And plus just in general, the duties of a Marshal are tracking fugitives, protecting government officials, and handling witness protection business (all of which the show displays). They don't spend much time investigating crime scenes, developing leads, or questioning suspects. They're told "this person is a fugitive, you need to find them." They don't care what they did or if they actually did it. A detective is trying to get to the truth behind the matter at hand.
I didn’t know you could build a time machine in YouTube format, because watching that transported me to when I was ten years old on a rainy Sunday afternoon at my grandparents place, and this was the only thing the antenna could pick up.
Hmmm. Does Columbo have two eyes or one is an exceedingly good point.
Kinda like, does Scotty on Star Trek TOS have all his fingers?
This coincidentally came up on Twitter over the weekend
In "A Trace of Murder", Columbo remarks while asking somebody to help him look around, "three eyes are better than one". Therefore, I submit that Columbo only had one eye
He's also talked about being a bad marksman, getting another officer to take the police shooting test for him, but admittedly a lot of people close one eye when shooting so it's not iron-clad evidence
[Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
+2
Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
Hmmm. Does Columbo have two eyes or one is an exceedingly good point.
Kinda like, does Scotty on Star Trek TOS have all his fingers?
This coincidentally came up on Twitter over the weekend
In "A Trace of Murder", Columbo remarks while asking somebody to help him look around, "three eyes are better than one". Therefore, I submit that Columbo only had one eye
He's also talked about being a bad marksman, getting another officer to take the police shooting test for him, but admittedly a lot of people close one eye when shooting so it's not iron-clad evidence
Columbo didn’t even carry a gun, if I remember right
I’m not sure if that was because he was a bad shot or because he hated violence, though
I'll give him a little bit of slack because he recognises the system is horribly broken. But not a lot of slack because he's still an enthusiastic part of that system.
I'd give Jake Peralta about a -9 on the Cop Scale.
I think I'm okay with classifying Phoenix Wright as a detective. He is technically a lawyer, but practically speaking half of his job is basically private eye work and pretty much every case comes down to him interviewing people, collecting evidence, and piecing everything together to unravel a mysterious death and expose the real killer against all odds.
Gumshoe is basically the same as Lassiter from Psych - he's a detective in that setting, but not the detective.
Hmmm. Does Columbo have two eyes or one is an exceedingly good point.
Kinda like, does Scotty on Star Trek TOS have all his fingers?
This coincidentally came up on Twitter over the weekend
In "A Trace of Murder", Columbo remarks while asking somebody to help him look around, "three eyes are better than one". Therefore, I submit that Columbo only had one eye
He's also talked about being a bad marksman, getting another officer to take the police shooting test for him, but admittedly a lot of people close one eye when shooting so it's not iron-clad evidence
Columbo didn’t even carry a gun, if I remember right
I’m not sure if that was because he was a bad shot or because he hated violence, though
Columbo was also a Lieutenant, which is above a rank and file kind of guy? So it could just be he didn't carry because he didn't need to?
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Hmmm. Does Columbo have two eyes or one is an exceedingly good point.
Kinda like, does Scotty on Star Trek TOS have all his fingers?
This coincidentally came up on Twitter over the weekend
In "A Trace of Murder", Columbo remarks while asking somebody to help him look around, "three eyes are better than one". Therefore, I submit that Columbo only had one eye
He's also talked about being a bad marksman, getting another officer to take the police shooting test for him, but admittedly a lot of people close one eye when shooting so it's not iron-clad evidence
Columbo didn’t even carry a gun, if I remember right
I’m not sure if that was because he was a bad shot or because he hated violence, though
Columbo was also a Lieutenant, which is above a rank and file kind of guy? So it could just be he didn't carry because he didn't need to?
I see Columbo as a Bosch type. He gets that the LAPD is fucked up, and he deals with it by keeping to himself, staying clean, establishing his own identity, and fucking with his asshole coworkers when the opportunity comes up. He's not an outright rebel, but he's still an outsider.
Because we've got a lot of FFXIV players in here, and because it's the most recent detective fiction I've watched...
Inspector Hildibrand Manderville
Effective: 4, and that's being generous. Hildibrand has on occasion tripped and fallen face-first into a clue, but most of his success comes from his uncanny ability to draw much more competent people into his orbit, like Inspector Briardien, or the Warrior of Light. Unlike the typical "clueless boss, clever subordinate" dynamic, Hildibrand's assistant Nashu Mhakaracca is also rock-bottom stupid, and generally serves to enable his most chaotic impulses. Compassionate: 3. On the one hand, Hildibrand seems to hurl himself into other people's problems with no regard for personal safety, and I can't actually recall him ever asking for payment. On the other hand, his motivation for doing so is his overwhelming self-absorption. He cares about people's problems only because they provide him an opportunity to display his own (imagined) prowess. Cop: -7. In Hildibrand's defense, he is about as aware of cops as he is of anyone who isn't himself, which is to say he only notices them when he needs an audience to brag to. He thinks he's a valued ally to all law enforcement - they mostly forget that he exists, except when he's being an immediate nuisance. He loses additional points because in Kugane he goes to great lengths to help a young man enlist in the Sekiseigumi, the most Cop-ass Cops in the setting. Flexible: 3. A juggernaut of ignorant confidence, Hildibrand is just too damn dumb to realize how bad he is at everything. Mostly this leads to slapstick failures, but sometimes his sheer audacity is disorienting enough to be useful. At the very least, he never seems uncomfortable in changing circumstances. Unless his parents show up. Entertaining: 7. Look at this goofy asshole. I can't wait to see what he gets up to in Norvrandt. I think his shenanigans would wear thin as like a weekly TV show, but as a short quest line parceled out over each new game expansion, he's great.
Total: 10
Realizing lately that I don't really trust or respect basically any of the moderators here. So, good luck with life, friends! Hit me up on Twitter @DesertLeviathan
Hmmm. Does Columbo have two eyes or one is an exceedingly good point.
Kinda like, does Scotty on Star Trek TOS have all his fingers?
This coincidentally came up on Twitter over the weekend
In "A Trace of Murder", Columbo remarks while asking somebody to help him look around, "three eyes are better than one". Therefore, I submit that Columbo only had one eye
He's also talked about being a bad marksman, getting another officer to take the police shooting test for him, but admittedly a lot of people close one eye when shooting so it's not iron-clad evidence
Columbo didn’t even carry a gun, if I remember right
I’m not sure if that was because he was a bad shot or because he hated violence, though
Columbo was also a Lieutenant, which is above a rank and file kind of guy? So it could just be he didn't carry because he didn't need to?
I see Columbo as a Bosch type. He gets that the LAPD is fucked up, and he deals with it by keeping to himself, staying clean, establishing his own identity, and fucking with his asshole coworkers when the opportunity comes up. He's not an outright rebel, but he's still an outsider.
Yeah anytime Columbo seems to have an interaction with other officers its always kind of terse to say the least, outside of like the patrol officers.
Though I don't think he ever quit the LAPD like Bosch has.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Here is where I break from the thread an GO TOO FAR, and say "a TV Detective is anyone who solves mysteries on a recurring basis"
All of us reference librarians then!
And us tax compliance officers!
Back in the contact centre, I would solve The Case of the Incorrect Tax Code 20-30 times a day
These days it's more The Riddle of the Incomplete Corporate Interest Restriction Form, or The Mystery of What the Fuck Is a Limited Liability Partnership Extra-Statutory Arrangement
Everyone in the lab regularly has to solve the mystery of "Where did Amazon deliver our packages?" It's like the worlds most irritating scavenger hunt.
My favourite is the always-helpful clue: "Package was handed to a resident." Like, one of the mice?
Effectiveness: 12. I had to decide whether to rate just Phoenix, or include all of his friends and random helpers. I decided to stick to Phoenix, in which case his individual effectiveness is extremely hit or miss. Sometimes he's able to make incredible intuitive leaps of logic (which in gameplay terms is often total bullshit, that's the clue I was supposed to notice!?), sometimes the answer is obvious and he's stone-cold stupid and needs Mia or Maya or whoever else to pop in and be like hey dummy, how did you not notice this? But he always gets it in the end, so gets a slightly-above-average rating. Compassion: 10. As a defense attorney, he always fully believes his client is innocent (which conveniently they always are) and won't stop till he proves it. He's idealistic, passionate, and genuinely cares about the people around him. Cop: 0. In just about every case, he's actively fighting against a law enforcement force that's already decided his client is guilty. Gumshoe isn't his antagonist exactly, but Phoenix generally ends up having to do his job for him while the cops fumble around and get everything wrong. Flexibility: 5. This one's kind of tough, because most of his flexibility/improvisation happens in the courtroom, not in his role as detective. He regularly has crucial flashes of insight during trials that lead to dramatic revelations. That being said, when it comes to investigating he's pretty straightforward and timid, relying on the people around him to push him into taking the necessary steps to figure things out. Entertainingness: 7. This is more of a judgment of the games overall. A good portion of the games can be super tedious and frustrating, but when it's good, it's VERY good. Again though, all the most entertaining parts generally happen in court and not during his detective work.
Final score: 34. He's dedicated and stubborn in a good way, but without an ensemble of smarties around him he wouldn't be nearly as successful. He's also one of the few detectives who has basically no connection to the cops, which helps bring his rating up.
Someone needs to make a show about a detective whose just dog shit. Like they solve 1 in 20 crimes. Real obvious shit too where you're just screaming at the TV screen telling him the butler did it and he's like "welp, another unsolved mystery."
What I like highlighted by the conclusion is Columbo gets things wrong. It happens routinely on cases, he makes assumptions that facts don't bear out, and then moves on to new theories. Its something a lot of Sherlock based shows could serve to use.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Posts
In other words
All of this is true.
And yet he spends a not insignificant amount of time trying to solve basic crimes and mysteries.
my gut tells me it'd be some bullshit like butch cassidy and the sundance kids.
Well it was how the three short stories the character was in read. I mean its Elmore Leonard, Mr. 3:10 to Yuma himself, but still I felt they did a really good job building on the character after season 1 was like very episodic and fugitive of the week. And the other 5 are more overall story with occasional loose fugitive/god damn it Dewey Crowe.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Kind of, in a very "I know you're doing crimes cuz I grew up around here, and I don't like you so I'm gonna get ya. Or just hurt ya." Like just about everything he does is personal, and he comes off feeling more like a bounty hunter than anything.
Mainly to me, he does a few things that a detective might do, but I wouldn't characterize him as a detective. An evaluation isn't that interesting to me because it would just come down to "he hits people he doesn't like till they tell him what he wants to hear." Again, great show and story, but not much in the way of what I like about detective stories.
Forever amusing to me that Art plays the sheriff who gets clowned on at the bus crash.
And Gerard does some detecting in the fugitive, he's being bread crumb there by Kimball, but he still puts the pieces together.
pleasepaypreacher.net
very much a cop
although if I’m being honest the whole reason to watch that show was Cheech Marin.
I didn’t know you could build a time machine in YouTube format, because watching that transported me to when I was ten years old on a rainy Sunday afternoon at my grandparents place, and this was the only thing the antenna could pick up.
WoW
Dear Satan.....
I think Dex averaging out the scope of his portrayals to a 6 in effectiveness is fair but I could take it to a maximum of 8, putting him at 15
This coincidentally came up on Twitter over the weekend
In "A Trace of Murder", Columbo remarks while asking somebody to help him look around, "three eyes are better than one". Therefore, I submit that Columbo only had one eye
He's also talked about being a bad marksman, getting another officer to take the police shooting test for him, but admittedly a lot of people close one eye when shooting so it's not iron-clad evidence
Columbo didn’t even carry a gun, if I remember right
I’m not sure if that was because he was a bad shot or because he hated violence, though
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
I'll give him a little bit of slack because he recognises the system is horribly broken. But not a lot of slack because he's still an enthusiastic part of that system.
I'd give Jake Peralta about a -9 on the Cop Scale.
EDIT: Also, Rebus, Life on Mars, and Waking the Dead.
Cadfael? No, he wasn't a priest I believe, and I think I remember his sidekick being a novice.
Father Dowling
iirc his sidekick was suspiciously good at things like lockpicking
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
If you wanted to include the AA series then Gumshoe would be the guy you’d need to rate.
I, uh, don’t think his score would be particularly good.
He solves crimes!
Like Jessica Fletcher, Matlock, And Dr. Mark Sloan aren't technically detectives. But also they're totally detectives.
Gumshoe is basically the same as Lassiter from Psych - he's a detective in that setting, but not the detective.
Columbo was also a Lieutenant, which is above a rank and file kind of guy? So it could just be he didn't carry because he didn't need to?
pleasepaypreacher.net
All of us reference librarians then!
I see Columbo as a Bosch type. He gets that the LAPD is fucked up, and he deals with it by keeping to himself, staying clean, establishing his own identity, and fucking with his asshole coworkers when the opportunity comes up. He's not an outright rebel, but he's still an outsider.
Inspector Hildibrand Manderville
Effective: 4, and that's being generous. Hildibrand has on occasion tripped and fallen face-first into a clue, but most of his success comes from his uncanny ability to draw much more competent people into his orbit, like Inspector Briardien, or the Warrior of Light. Unlike the typical "clueless boss, clever subordinate" dynamic, Hildibrand's assistant Nashu Mhakaracca is also rock-bottom stupid, and generally serves to enable his most chaotic impulses.
Compassionate: 3. On the one hand, Hildibrand seems to hurl himself into other people's problems with no regard for personal safety, and I can't actually recall him ever asking for payment. On the other hand, his motivation for doing so is his overwhelming self-absorption. He cares about people's problems only because they provide him an opportunity to display his own (imagined) prowess.
Cop: -7. In Hildibrand's defense, he is about as aware of cops as he is of anyone who isn't himself, which is to say he only notices them when he needs an audience to brag to. He thinks he's a valued ally to all law enforcement - they mostly forget that he exists, except when he's being an immediate nuisance. He loses additional points because in Kugane he goes to great lengths to help a young man enlist in the Sekiseigumi, the most Cop-ass Cops in the setting.
Flexible: 3. A juggernaut of ignorant confidence, Hildibrand is just too damn dumb to realize how bad he is at everything. Mostly this leads to slapstick failures, but sometimes his sheer audacity is disorienting enough to be useful. At the very least, he never seems uncomfortable in changing circumstances. Unless his parents show up.
Entertaining: 7. Look at this goofy asshole. I can't wait to see what he gets up to in Norvrandt. I think his shenanigans would wear thin as like a weekly TV show, but as a short quest line parceled out over each new game expansion, he's great.
Total: 10
Phoenix is a lawyer who is also his own private investigator, rather than a lawyer who contracts out those services like Matlock
Yeah anytime Columbo seems to have an interaction with other officers its always kind of terse to say the least, outside of like the patrol officers.
Though I don't think he ever quit the LAPD like Bosch has.
pleasepaypreacher.net
And us tax compliance officers!
Back in the contact centre, I would solve The Case of the Incorrect Tax Code 20-30 times a day
These days it's more The Riddle of the Incomplete Corporate Interest Restriction Form, or The Mystery of What the Fuck Is a Limited Liability Partnership Extra-Statutory Arrangement
My favourite is the always-helpful clue: "Package was handed to a resident." Like, one of the mice?
Effectiveness: 12. I had to decide whether to rate just Phoenix, or include all of his friends and random helpers. I decided to stick to Phoenix, in which case his individual effectiveness is extremely hit or miss. Sometimes he's able to make incredible intuitive leaps of logic (which in gameplay terms is often total bullshit, that's the clue I was supposed to notice!?), sometimes the answer is obvious and he's stone-cold stupid and needs Mia or Maya or whoever else to pop in and be like hey dummy, how did you not notice this? But he always gets it in the end, so gets a slightly-above-average rating.
Compassion: 10. As a defense attorney, he always fully believes his client is innocent (which conveniently they always are) and won't stop till he proves it. He's idealistic, passionate, and genuinely cares about the people around him.
Cop: 0. In just about every case, he's actively fighting against a law enforcement force that's already decided his client is guilty. Gumshoe isn't his antagonist exactly, but Phoenix generally ends up having to do his job for him while the cops fumble around and get everything wrong.
Flexibility: 5. This one's kind of tough, because most of his flexibility/improvisation happens in the courtroom, not in his role as detective. He regularly has crucial flashes of insight during trials that lead to dramatic revelations. That being said, when it comes to investigating he's pretty straightforward and timid, relying on the people around him to push him into taking the necessary steps to figure things out.
Entertainingness: 7. This is more of a judgment of the games overall. A good portion of the games can be super tedious and frustrating, but when it's good, it's VERY good. Again though, all the most entertaining parts generally happen in court and not during his detective work.
Final score: 34. He's dedicated and stubborn in a good way, but without an ensemble of smarties around him he wouldn't be nearly as successful. He's also one of the few detectives who has basically no connection to the cops, which helps bring his rating up.
"Eh, it is probably the black guy. Arrest him!"
I don't know shit about Detective Conan but this cracks me up every time
https://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/1JI9WWSRW1YJI
Speaking of Columbo clowning on rich dudes.
What I like highlighted by the conclusion is Columbo gets things wrong. It happens routinely on cases, he makes assumptions that facts don't bear out, and then moves on to new theories. Its something a lot of Sherlock based shows could serve to use.
pleasepaypreacher.net