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Who Watches HBO's [Watchmen]?

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Posts

  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator mod
    Gustav wrote: »
    DJ Eebs wrote: »
    The idea that this show is unashamedly pro-cop seems to be gaining some traction and I'm having a real tough time seeing why
    The Seventh Kalvary video essentially mirroring the cops watching it seemed like a giveaway to me

    and I dunno. The extrajudicial kidnapping and torture.

    yeah, it reads as an incredibly bad faith reading of the text, which, you know, means this watchmen series has something in common with the original
    The interrogation scene in the pod, where Tim Blake Nelson's mask reflects the images on screen and...you know, looks like a Rorschach mask, also seemed like a tell?

    Also: the police chief got strung up by the survivor of the Tulsa massacre we see in the beginning, or, if he didn't do it, he at the very least is on board with the idea. They focused on that old picture he had for a reason, you know. Plus the song from Oklahoma that they played is...about the villain of the musical, you know? I don't think any of this is an accident.

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  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    edited October 21
    There are some shows where you can peg the ethos and morality and worldview of the story right from the jump

    Lindelof shows are, uh, not those shows

    Poorochondriac on
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  • GustavGustav Registered User regular
    DJ Eebs wrote: »
    Gustav wrote: »
    DJ Eebs wrote: »
    The idea that this show is unashamedly pro-cop seems to be gaining some traction and I'm having a real tough time seeing why
    The Seventh Kalvary video essentially mirroring the cops watching it seemed like a giveaway to me

    and I dunno. The extrajudicial kidnapping and torture.

    yeah, it reads as an incredibly bad faith reading of the text, which, you know, means this watchmen series has something in common with the original
    The interrogation scene in the pod, where Tim Blake Nelson's mask reflects the images on screen and...you know, looks like a Rorschach mask, also seemed like a tell?

    Also: the police chief got strung up by the survivor of the Tulsa massacre we see in the beginning, or, if he didn't do it, he at the very least is on board with the idea. They focused on that old picture he had for a reason, you know. Plus the song from Oklahoma that they played is...about the villain of the musical, you know? I don't think any of this is an accident.
    Don Johnson's character played the hero of Oklahoma in high school but also shares a name with the villain of the musical.

    The old picture I wasn't sure if I was supposed to understand immediately or not. But my read so far is that he has a history of police in his family and well THAT HISTORY MIGHT FUCKING SUCK

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    SleepDJ EebsMatevTransporter
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    There are some shows where you can peg the ethos and morality and worldview of the story right from the jump

    Lindeloff shows are, uh, not those shows

    I think this is the little nagging bit that actually is what's gonna keep me at the table. Like superheros, masked vigilantes, whatever the fuck is going on with ozymandias and the squid rain is cool and crunchy scenery, but I can already tell they are trying to establish a status quo with the cops and kalvalry for the express purpose of smashing it to bits.

  • ZxerolZxerol HOW MANY POUNDS IS CAT POOP Registered User regular
    You could possibly make that read from the traffic stop scene
    hey if that cop wasn't hamstrung and was able to pull a gun on a suspicious dude fast enough, he'd still be alive, blue lives matter

    but that kinda requires to ignore subtext (and straight out text) for everything else.

    I really do want to see how this plays out.

    SleepJayKaosOlivaw
  • GustavGustav Registered User regular
    Whelp. It's a Lindelof show alright. A friend just texted me his thoughts and theories of whats up.
    The child who survived the Tulsa massacre being Hooded Justice. With the Bass Reaves film being his sort of origin and inspiration. Which could work given how speculative the Hooded Justice's identity and fate were in the book. Yes I'm ignoring Before Watchmen.

    VnZ7Xbt.jpg
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  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Gustav wrote: »
    Whelp. It's a Lindelof show alright. A friend just texted me his thoughts and theories of whats up.
    The child who survived the Tulsa massacre being Hooded Justice. With the Bass Reaves film being his sort of origin and inspiration. Which could work given how speculative the Hooded Justice's identity and fate were in the book. Yes I'm ignoring Before Watchmen.

    I like this theory a lot
    It sets up a very interesting thematic space, where superheroes as a movement are a co-opting of black pain and black experience. Much as how Bass Reeves was co-opted and white-washed into the Lone Ranger, taking away all of the context around Bass Reeves. This would echo into the way policing is co-opting vigilantism, taking the symbols and methods and failing to recognize that they don't, and can't, belong within institutionalized power.

    Fuck, I hope that's where they're going, that's extremely cool

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  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    The show is playing in some murky “both sides” stuff that could go rotten, but I don’t know how one could see a scene where a suspect is brought in and subjected to some Minority Report interrogation and then dragged into a back room and beaten until blood and piss is literally seeping out under the door and go “this is unquestionably copaganda”

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  • GustavGustav Registered User regular
    Gustav wrote: »
    Whelp. It's a Lindelof show alright. A friend just texted me his thoughts and theories of whats up.
    The child who survived the Tulsa massacre being Hooded Justice. With the Bass Reaves film being his sort of origin and inspiration. Which could work given how speculative the Hooded Justice's identity and fate were in the book. Yes I'm ignoring Before Watchmen.

    I like this theory a lot
    It sets up a very interesting thematic space, where superheroes as a movement are a co-opting of black pain and black experience. Much as how Bass Reeves was co-opted and white-washed into the Lone Ranger, taking away all of the context around Bass Reeves. This would echo into the way policing is co-opting vigilantism, taking the symbols and methods and failing to recognize that they don't, and can't, belong within institutionalized power.

    Fuck, I hope that's where they're going, that's extremely cool

    Oh man. That would be incredible if they ran that direction.

    VnZ7Xbt.jpg
    SleepMatev
  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    The show is playing in some murky “both sides” stuff that could go rotten, but I don’t know how one could see a scene where a suspect is brought in and subjected to some Minority Report interrogation and then dragged into a back room and beaten until blood and piss is literally seeping out under the door and go “this is unquestionably copaganda”

    The fact that the torture got results is honestly the only thing in the pilot that concerns me

    GustavSleepvalhalla130MatevpainfulPleasanceOlivaw
  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator mod


    Sepinwall's recap is also very good and calls attention to some interesting stuff I'd missed. I think this show's gonna have a lot of interesting writing about it (and some...bad writing about it, too)

    GustavSleepZilla360
  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Because this is HBO, and because Lindelof loves breaking format, and because Watchmen is a property that loves breaking format, I wonder how long we'll have to wait before we get an episode that's just the American Hero Story show-within-the-show

    That would be a pretty great way to onboard people that haven't read the comics, catch 'em up on everything relevant

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  • GustavGustav Registered User regular
    Because this is HBO, and because Lindelof loves breaking format, and because Watchmen is a property that loves breaking format, I wonder how long we'll have to wait before we get an episode that's just the American Hero Story show-within-the-show

    That would be a pretty great way to onboard people that haven't read the comics, catch 'em up on everything relevant

    It's also VERY Watchmen backmatter to do something like that.

    VnZ7Xbt.jpg
    SleepDrCongoStiltsshalmeloMatevscherbchenOlivaw
  • YaYaYaYa Decent. Registered User regular
    Because this is HBO, and because Lindelof loves breaking format, and because Watchmen is a property that loves breaking format, I wonder how long we'll have to wait before we get an episode that's just the American Hero Story show-within-the-show

    That would be a pretty great way to onboard people that haven't read the comics, catch 'em up on everything relevant

    alternatively it would be a good way of making people think they're caught up while having American Hero Story completely lie about the realities of what happened

    JayKaos
  • BillyIdleBillyIdle What does "katana" mean? It means "Japanese sword."Registered User regular
    I'm super into this so far, and can't wait for next week's episode.

    Also, incredible choice for the hero car. The Grand National is a beast, and a masked vigilante would totally drive one.

    Transporter
  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    The main thing giving me pause about the show politically is we’re still talking about the writer of 2019’s unreleased The Hunt

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  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I'm curious what the deal with the batteries is going to be.

    I don't believe it's going to be as mundane as something like a bomb.

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  • tessarjitessarji Registered User regular
    edited October 21
    Some may not be aware there is backmatter for the TV series as well, very much like the graphic novel.

    Be sure to check out Peteypedia

    tessarji on
    PoorochondriacHermanoakajaybayMatev
  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    edited October 21
    tessarji wrote: »
    Some may not be aware there is backmatter for the TV series as well, very much like the graphic novel.

    Be sure to check out Peteypedia

    There's some very fun stuff in here, like the Surgeon General being Dr. Oz.

    Edit: I very much appreciate that the internal material refers to the Tulsa Massacre (rather than Riots or any other neutering sobriquet)

    Poorochondriac on
  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    edited October 21
    tessarji wrote: »
    Some may not be aware there is backmatter for the TV series as well, very much like the graphic novel.

    Be sure to check out Peteypedia

    There's some very fun stuff in here, like the Surgeon General being Dr. Oz.

    And White House Press Secretary Ezra Klein. So the watch battery plot must be wrapped up in the idea that Manhattan based tech was not just cancerous but
    deemed to have eroded the dimensional walls causing the invasion.

    akajaybay on
    Sleep
  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    edited October 21
    akajaybay wrote: »
    I'm wondering if they're going to try and demonstrate
    tessarji wrote: »
    Some may not be aware there is backmatter for the TV series as well, very much like the graphic novel.

    Be sure to check out Peteypedia

    There's some very fun stuff in here, like the Surgeon General being Dr. Oz.

    And White House Press Secretary Ezra Klein. So the watch battery plot must be wrapped up in the idea that Manhattan based tech was not just cancerous but
    deemed to have eroded the dimensional walls causing the invasion.

    Also Roger Ailes owns the New Frontiersman, lol
    Also, I'm moving "clones" to the top of my "What's the deal with the butler/maid?" list

    Poorochondriac on
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  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator mod
    Spoilers for the backmatter
    Establishing that Rorshach's journal was published and immediately dismissed as ramblings is a very interesting way to take it, but also a really...difficult way of tackling it. Explicitly having a cult rise up from a conspiracy theory that turns out to have some truth to it is...going to require some finesse.

    Zilla360RMS Oceanic
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    DJ Eebs wrote: »
    Spoilers for the backmatter
    Establishing that Rorshach's journal was published and immediately dismissed as ramblings is a very interesting way to take it, but also a really...difficult way of tackling it. Explicitly having a cult rise up from a conspiracy theory that turns out to have some truth to it is...going to require some finesse.

    I mean, 2019 says that ain't hard at all

    OlivawTheBlackWindCojo MojopainfulPleasance
  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    I love their Metal Gear Solid as hell term D.I.E.
    Termed such both for the cancer causing effect of the Manhattan energy (since disproven) and the cause of the Dimensional Incursion Event. Seems like they're starting to question the second half as well but the squid rain keeps it in play.

  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    FUCK, big reveal buried deep in the backmatter
    Silk Spectre is now a high-ranking FBI member.

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  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator mod
    FUCK, big reveal buried deep in the backmatter
    Silk Spectre is now a high-ranking FBI member.

    and
    Night Owl is in federal custody?

    PoorochondriacMatev
  • Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Dr. Oz is one of my least favorite people. It's one thing to shill bullshit products. It's another thing altogether to be a world class doctor and knowingly shill bullshit products taking advantage of the fact people trust you as a world class doctor.

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  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    FUCK, big reveal buried deep in the backmatter
    Silk Spectre is now a high-ranking FBI member.
    Interesting that she seemingly went on to work for the government as the Comedienne I assume, and then joining the FBI. But Nite Owl is mentioned as simply being in custody. They seem to have gone in very different directions.

    Poorochondriac
  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Oh my god, this bit about the karaoke night in Hanoi

    This backmatter is just chock-a-fucking-block with gems. What a generous, generous thing they've done here.

    Also holy fuck does this show have its hooks in me. I am legitimately shocked at how deep into it I already am.

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  • WimbleWimble Registered User regular
    hell yeah I'm already digging it but I get an added contact high when you're enthused about something, pooro

    happy it's hookin', glad about the grab

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    PoorochondriacOlivawjkylefulton
  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    edited October 21
    Peteypedia
    the final memo describes Rorschach and Veidt as Objectivist/Sociopath and Savior/Narcissist, respectively, on the "Wertham spectrum"

    edit: every named hero in this memo has a type assigned, it's a cool touch

    Fredric Wertham was the real life psychiatrist who wrote Seduction Of The Innocent and spread the idea that comic books were harmful to children and encouraged delinquent behavior

    Grey Ghost on
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  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    There will be a three volume vinyl release of the soundtrack as well with each record coming out as the show progresses.
    https://store.nin.com/products/watchmen-soundtrack

    Zilla360Matev
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Oh my god, this bit about the karaoke night in Hanoi

    This backmatter is just chock-a-fucking-block with gems. What a generous, generous thing they've done here.

    Also holy fuck does this show have its hooks in me. I am legitimately shocked at how deep into it I already am.

    I was like feeling it pretty good after the pilot, definitely in for more, but this back matter is like a visceral talon sinking in I can like feel it. I haven't even read it all yet.

    Poorochondriac
  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    I know Alan Moore has to hate it because he's Alan Moore and he hates everything that's not by him and most things that ARE by him

    but man this seems so in the spirit of what he and Dave Gibbons were doing

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  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    Also from the Peteypedia, Nixonville is not just like a trailer park in Tulsa, but a cultural thing repeated in many places throughout the country.

    Matev
  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    akajaybay wrote: »
    Also from the Peteypedia, Nixonville is not just like a trailer park in Tulsa, but a cultural thing repeated in many places throughout the country.

    Yeah, I assumed those were like Hoovervilles - right down to being a pejorative
    Sleep wrote: »
    Oh my god, this bit about the karaoke night in Hanoi

    This backmatter is just chock-a-fucking-block with gems. What a generous, generous thing they've done here.

    Also holy fuck does this show have its hooks in me. I am legitimately shocked at how deep into it I already am.

    I was like feeling it pretty good after the pilot, definitely in for more, but this back matter is like a visceral talon sinking in I can like feel it. I haven't even read it all yet.

    Seriously. I enjoyed it last night, but spent this morning reading some essays, and now the backmatter, and I'm fuckin' in

    I don't even know the last time I imprinted this hard, this fast on a show, and just wanted to like feast on examinations of it and its marginalia.

    SleepGustavjkylefultonMatev
  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    How many episodes is this getting?

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx El Hopaness Rom Tic Registered User regular
    I'm glad Lindelof is doing this.

    The Leftovers is legitimately one of the best shows ever written, so I'm looking forward to his take on this.

    Make. Time.
    jkylefultonHermanoTukotHacksaw
  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    I know we are not really supposed to think any of the comic's protagonists or their gear is especially cool but I did let out a reflexive "oh shit!" of admiration when
    they busted out the Owlship
    Also the pilot's mask was extremely cool

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  • AtomicTofuAtomicTofu She's a straight-up supervillain, yo Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    How many episodes is this getting?

    9 episodes, and Lindelof says this is a single-season story

    Matev
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