Who Watches HBO's [Watchmen]?

DJ Eebs

Gustav wrote: »

DJ Eebs wrote: »

The idea that this show is unashamedly pro-cop seems to be gaining some traction and I'm having a real tough time seeing why

The Seventh Kalvary video essentially mirroring the cops watching it seemed like a giveaway to me

and I dunno. The extrajudicial kidnapping and torture.

yeah, it reads as an incredibly bad faith reading of the text, which, you know, means this watchmen series has something in common with the original

The interrogation scene in the pod, where Tim Blake Nelson's mask reflects the images on screen and...you know, looks like a Rorschach mask, also seemed like a tell?

Also: the police chief got strung up by the survivor of the Tulsa massacre we see in the beginning, or, if he didn't do it, he at the very least is on board with the idea. They focused on that old picture he had for a reason, you know. Plus the song from Oklahoma that they played is...about the villain of the musical, you know? I don't think any of this is an accident.

Poorochondriac

There are some shows where you can peg the ethos and morality and worldview of the story right from the jump

Lindelof shows are, uh, not those shows

Gustav

DJ Eebs wrote: »

Gustav wrote: »

DJ Eebs wrote: »

The idea that this show is unashamedly pro-cop seems to be gaining some traction and I'm having a real tough time seeing why

The Seventh Kalvary video essentially mirroring the cops watching it seemed like a giveaway to me

and I dunno. The extrajudicial kidnapping and torture.

yeah, it reads as an incredibly bad faith reading of the text, which, you know, means this watchmen series has something in common with the original

The interrogation scene in the pod, where Tim Blake Nelson's mask reflects the images on screen and...you know, looks like a Rorschach mask, also seemed like a tell?

Also: the police chief got strung up by the survivor of the Tulsa massacre we see in the beginning, or, if he didn't do it, he at the very least is on board with the idea. They focused on that old picture he had for a reason, you know. Plus the song from Oklahoma that they played is...about the villain of the musical, you know? I don't think any of this is an accident.

Don Johnson's character played the hero of Oklahoma in high school but also shares a name with the villain of the musical.

The old picture I wasn't sure if I was supposed to understand immediately or not. But my read so far is that he has a history of police in his family and well THAT HISTORY MIGHT FUCKING SUCK

Sleep

Poorochondriac wrote: »

There are some shows where you can peg the ethos and morality and worldview of the story right from the jump

Lindeloff shows are, uh, not those shows

I think this is the little nagging bit that actually is what's gonna keep me at the table. Like superheros, masked vigilantes, whatever the fuck is going on with ozymandias and the squid rain is cool and crunchy scenery, but I can already tell they are trying to establish a status quo with the cops and kalvalry for the express purpose of smashing it to bits.

Zxerol

You could possibly make that read from the traffic stop scene

hey if that cop wasn't hamstrung and was able to pull a gun on a suspicious dude fast enough, he'd still be alive, blue lives matter

but that kinda requires to ignore subtext (and straight out text) for everything else.

I really do want to see how this plays out.

Gustav

Whelp. It's a Lindelof show alright. A friend just texted me his thoughts and theories of whats up.

The child who survived the Tulsa massacre being Hooded Justice. With the Bass Reaves film being his sort of origin and inspiration. Which could work given how speculative the Hooded Justice's identity and fate were in the book. Yes I'm ignoring Before Watchmen.

Poorochondriac

Gustav wrote: »

Whelp. It's a Lindelof show alright. A friend just texted me his thoughts and theories of whats up.

The child who survived the Tulsa massacre being Hooded Justice. With the Bass Reaves film being his sort of origin and inspiration. Which could work given how speculative the Hooded Justice's identity and fate were in the book. Yes I'm ignoring Before Watchmen.

I like this theory a lot

It sets up a very interesting thematic space, where superheroes as a movement are a co-opting of black pain and black experience. Much as how Bass Reeves was co-opted and white-washed into the Lone Ranger, taking away all of the context around Bass Reeves. This would echo into the way policing is co-opting vigilantism, taking the symbols and methods and failing to recognize that they don't, and can't, belong within institutionalized power.

Fuck, I hope that's where they're going, that's extremely cool

Mr. G

The show is playing in some murky “both sides” stuff that could go rotten, but I don’t know how one could see a scene where a suspect is brought in and subjected to some Minority Report interrogation and then dragged into a back room and beaten until blood and piss is literally seeping out under the door and go “this is unquestionably copaganda”

Gustav

Poorochondriac wrote: »

Gustav wrote: »

Whelp. It's a Lindelof show alright. A friend just texted me his thoughts and theories of whats up.

The child who survived the Tulsa massacre being Hooded Justice. With the Bass Reaves film being his sort of origin and inspiration. Which could work given how speculative the Hooded Justice's identity and fate were in the book. Yes I'm ignoring Before Watchmen.

I like this theory a lot

It sets up a very interesting thematic space, where superheroes as a movement are a co-opting of black pain and black experience. Much as how Bass Reeves was co-opted and white-washed into the Lone Ranger, taking away all of the context around Bass Reeves. This would echo into the way policing is co-opting vigilantism, taking the symbols and methods and failing to recognize that they don't, and can't, belong within institutionalized power.

Fuck, I hope that's where they're going, that's extremely cool

Oh man. That would be incredible if they ran that direction.

Poorochondriac

Mr. G wrote: »

The show is playing in some murky “both sides” stuff that could go rotten, but I don’t know how one could see a scene where a suspect is brought in and subjected to some Minority Report interrogation and then dragged into a back room and beaten until blood and piss is literally seeping out under the door and go “this is unquestionably copaganda”

The fact that the torture got results is honestly the only thing in the pilot that concerns me

DJ Eebs

https://twitter.com/sepinwall/status/1186101029617786881

Sepinwall's recap is also very good and calls attention to some interesting stuff I'd missed. I think this show's gonna have a lot of interesting writing about it (and some...bad writing about it, too)

Poorochondriac

Because this is HBO, and because Lindelof loves breaking format, and because Watchmen is a property that loves breaking format, I wonder how long we'll have to wait before we get an episode that's just the American Hero Story show-within-the-show

That would be a pretty great way to onboard people that haven't read the comics, catch 'em up on everything relevant

Gustav

Poorochondriac wrote: »

Because this is HBO, and because Lindelof loves breaking format, and because Watchmen is a property that loves breaking format, I wonder how long we'll have to wait before we get an episode that's just the American Hero Story show-within-the-show

That would be a pretty great way to onboard people that haven't read the comics, catch 'em up on everything relevant

It's also VERY Watchmen backmatter to do something like that.

YaYa

Poorochondriac wrote: »

Because this is HBO, and because Lindelof loves breaking format, and because Watchmen is a property that loves breaking format, I wonder how long we'll have to wait before we get an episode that's just the American Hero Story show-within-the-show

That would be a pretty great way to onboard people that haven't read the comics, catch 'em up on everything relevant

alternatively it would be a good way of making people think they're caught up while having American Hero Story completely lie about the realities of what happened

BillyIdle

I'm super into this so far, and can't wait for next week's episode.

Also, incredible choice for the hero car. The Grand National is a beast, and a masked vigilante would totally drive one.

Mr. G

The main thing giving me pause about the show politically is we’re still talking about the writer of 2019’s unreleased The Hunt

Raijin Quickfoot

I'm curious what the deal with the batteries is going to be.

I don't believe it's going to be as mundane as something like a bomb.

tessarji

Some may not be aware there is backmatter for the TV series as well, very much like the graphic novel.

Be sure to check out Peteypedia

Poorochondriac

tessarji wrote: »

Some may not be aware there is backmatter for the TV series as well, very much like the graphic novel.

Be sure to check out Peteypedia

There's some very fun stuff in here, like the Surgeon General being Dr. Oz.

Edit: I very much appreciate that the internal material refers to the Tulsa Massacre (rather than Riots or any other neutering sobriquet)

akajaybay

Poorochondriac wrote: »

tessarji wrote: »

Some may not be aware there is backmatter for the TV series as well, very much like the graphic novel.

Be sure to check out Peteypedia

There's some very fun stuff in here, like the Surgeon General being Dr. Oz.

And White House Press Secretary Ezra Klein. So the watch battery plot must be wrapped up in the idea that Manhattan based tech was not just cancerous but

deemed to have eroded the dimensional walls causing the invasion.

Poorochondriac

akajaybay wrote: »

I'm wondering if they're going to try and demonstrate

Poorochondriac wrote: »

tessarji wrote: »

Some may not be aware there is backmatter for the TV series as well, very much like the graphic novel.

Be sure to check out Peteypedia

There's some very fun stuff in here, like the Surgeon General being Dr. Oz.

And White House Press Secretary Ezra Klein. So the watch battery plot must be wrapped up in the idea that Manhattan based tech was not just cancerous but

deemed to have eroded the dimensional walls causing the invasion.

Also Roger Ailes owns the New Frontiersman, lol

Also, I'm moving "clones" to the top of my "What's the deal with the butler/maid?" list

DJ Eebs

Spoilers for the backmatter

Establishing that Rorshach's journal was published and immediately dismissed as ramblings is a very interesting way to take it, but also a really...difficult way of tackling it. Explicitly having a cult rise up from a conspiracy theory that turns out to have some truth to it is...going to require some finesse.

PiptheFair

DJ Eebs wrote: »

Spoilers for the backmatter

Establishing that Rorshach's journal was published and immediately dismissed as ramblings is a very interesting way to take it, but also a really...difficult way of tackling it. Explicitly having a cult rise up from a conspiracy theory that turns out to have some truth to it is...going to require some finesse.

I mean, 2019 says that ain't hard at all

akajaybay

I love their Metal Gear Solid as hell term D.I.E.

Termed such both for the cancer causing effect of the Manhattan energy (since disproven) and the cause of the Dimensional Incursion Event. Seems like they're starting to question the second half as well but the squid rain keeps it in play.

Poorochondriac

FUCK, big reveal buried deep in the backmatter

Silk Spectre is now a high-ranking FBI member.

DJ Eebs

Poorochondriac wrote: »

FUCK, big reveal buried deep in the backmatter

Silk Spectre is now a high-ranking FBI member.

and

Night Owl is in federal custody?

Raijin Quickfoot

Dr. Oz is one of my least favorite people. It's one thing to shill bullshit products. It's another thing altogether to be a world class doctor and knowingly shill bullshit products taking advantage of the fact people trust you as a world class doctor.

akajaybay

Poorochondriac wrote: »

FUCK, big reveal buried deep in the backmatter

Silk Spectre is now a high-ranking FBI member.

Interesting that she seemingly went on to work for the government as the Comedienne I assume, and then joining the FBI. But Nite Owl is mentioned as simply being in custody. They seem to have gone in very different directions.

Poorochondriac

Oh my god, this bit about the karaoke night in Hanoi

This backmatter is just chock-a-fucking-block with gems. What a generous, generous thing they've done here.

Also holy fuck does this show have its hooks in me. I am legitimately shocked at how deep into it I already am.

Wimble

hell yeah I'm already digging it but I get an added contact high when you're enthused about something, pooro

happy it's hookin', glad about the grab

Grey Ghost

Peteypedia

the final memo describes Rorschach and Veidt as Objectivist/Sociopath and Savior/Narcissist, respectively, on the "Wertham spectrum"

edit: every named hero in this memo has a type assigned, it's a cool touch

Fredric Wertham was the real life psychiatrist who wrote Seduction Of The Innocent and spread the idea that comic books were harmful to children and encouraged delinquent behavior

akajaybay

There will be a three volume vinyl release of the soundtrack as well with each record coming out as the show progresses.
https://store.nin.com/products/watchmen-soundtrack

Sleep

Poorochondriac wrote: »

Oh my god, this bit about the karaoke night in Hanoi

This backmatter is just chock-a-fucking-block with gems. What a generous, generous thing they've done here.

Also holy fuck does this show have its hooks in me. I am legitimately shocked at how deep into it I already am.

I was like feeling it pretty good after the pilot, definitely in for more, but this back matter is like a visceral talon sinking in I can like feel it. I haven't even read it all yet.

Mr. G

I know Alan Moore has to hate it because he's Alan Moore and he hates everything that's not by him and most things that ARE by him

but man this seems so in the spirit of what he and Dave Gibbons were doing

akajaybay

Also from the Peteypedia, Nixonville is not just like a trailer park in Tulsa, but a cultural thing repeated in many places throughout the country.

Poorochondriac

akajaybay wrote: »

Also from the Peteypedia, Nixonville is not just like a trailer park in Tulsa, but a cultural thing repeated in many places throughout the country.

Yeah, I assumed those were like Hoovervilles - right down to being a pejorative

Sleep wrote: »

Poorochondriac wrote: »

Oh my god, this bit about the karaoke night in Hanoi

This backmatter is just chock-a-fucking-block with gems. What a generous, generous thing they've done here.

Also holy fuck does this show have its hooks in me. I am legitimately shocked at how deep into it I already am.

I was like feeling it pretty good after the pilot, definitely in for more, but this back matter is like a visceral talon sinking in I can like feel it. I haven't even read it all yet.

Seriously. I enjoyed it last night, but spent this morning reading some essays, and now the backmatter, and I'm fuckin' in

I don't even know the last time I imprinted this hard, this fast on a show, and just wanted to like feast on examinations of it and its marginalia.

Grey Ghost

How many episodes is this getting?

jungleroomx

I'm glad Lindelof is doing this.

The Leftovers is legitimately one of the best shows ever written, so I'm looking forward to his take on this.

Grey Ghost

I know we are not really supposed to think any of the comic's protagonists or their gear is especially cool but I did let out a reflexive "oh shit!" of admiration when

they busted out the Owlship
Also the pilot's mask was extremely cool

AtomicTofu

Grey Ghost wrote: »

How many episodes is this getting?

9 episodes, and Lindelof says this is a single-season story