I love how there's a decent amount of impressive futuretech but the tech still kind of sucks in a way where you can see the seams in how it works and how its evolved
The backmatter has a really fun angle on that phenomenon.
Dr. Manhattan advances tech rapidly, but then people get spooked about his tech maybe giving people cancer, and the world goes neo-Luddite for a spell. And then, they start to get over it, and start to find "safer" versions of that advanced, "dangerous" thing. Which absolutely tracks with how folks handle tech.
The fact that they thought that out, explicated it in ancillary material, didn't put ANY of it in the text of the show (yet), and yet it all plays as coherent and intentional and rational? Incredible.
man I'm really glad I didn't misread the whole "the chief is a closet white supremacist" thing. I was pretty sure that was gonna be thing. I think that's my only problem in this episode is that much of it was pretty predictable. Though not in an all encompassing way. I got no idea where the fuck anything is going but most of the "reveals" this episode felt less like showing us something unexpected and instead like confirming things we were assuming ahead of the reveal.
Personally, I don't need big twists in episode two. "We follow through on things we set up" is the message sent tonight, and that's VERY valuable in an episode two.
I'm trying to figure out the relevance of this episode title
I assume it's the title of the painting that gets zoomed in on
It is
Related: having a closeted white supremacist be really into fetishizing Noble Braves is REALLY ACCURATE. It's this whole, "Ah, a worthy, vanquished foe" thing. Natives are viewed, by racists, as conquered and no-longer extant. Relegated to the past. To """remember""" them as mighty warriors is to paint the """victory""" as just, and worthy of praise.
Also, 7th Kavalry being named what it is, uh - you're gonna have some weird Indian shit around the edges
When they cut from Angela staring down the second Kavalry member to her waking up in the hospital, and Judd tells her her assailant bled out...something's off with that, obviously. Either Judd's the second Kavalry member, and he spared her for some specific reason, or something else is going on. And what happened to her husband?
Even if his job is acting exasperated when two of his weird clone boys drop a freshly made corpse on the ground.
I'm torn between Veidt cloning himself, or cloning Manhattan in some attempt to make sense of him. The focus on Manhattan's words to him seems to have consumed him since the former left.
I'm also wondering what's up with Angela's(?) ex?
Judd being the 2nd assailant and leaving Angela alive as a fit of conscience or her "being one of the good ones" is an interesting theory that I would like to see confirmed or denied.
Did anyone notice the shadowy figure behind Angela when she was at the DNA test booth? Is that going to come back later, someone tailing her?
Who's Will's other descendant?
More questions asked, but given the show's pace, we should see some follow up.
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
Hail Hydra
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GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
Cheyanne Jackson starring in American Hero Story is a stupid joke and I love it
+1
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Wait till next Sunday then watch ep 1, 2, and 3 cause if there's anything about the end of 2 I can say it is like immediately said out loud to no "wait that was the whole hour, well what the fuck". I just immediately wanted more. Now I gotta wait a whole week.
+2
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Wait till next Sunday then watch ep 1, 2, and 3 cause if there's anything about the end of 2 I can say it is like immediately said out loud to no "wait that was the whole hour, well what the fuck". I just immediately wanted more. Now I gotta wait a whole week.
I'm not waiting! I watched the first one last week and I'm watching this one this week!
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
Binge watching seemed like a bad idea for a show like this
+4
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
I can’t help but laugh at the end of episode 2.
+3
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
That was a hell of an episode. What is up with
The old man just pulling an egg out of boiling water?
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
The old man just pulling an egg out of boiling water?
There was that and also
Him taking a full-on gulp of that super hot coffee the second it was done brewing and handed to him. She even gave him a double-take when he did it. I saw it circulated around in the thread earlier that he might be Hooded Justice, which is starting to line up with everything that's gone on so far.
The old man just pulling an egg out of boiling water?
There was that and also
Him taking a full-on gulp of that super hot coffee the second it was done brewing and handed to him. She even gave him a double-take when he did it. I saw it circulated around in the thread earlier that he might be Hooded Justice, which is starting to line up with everything that's gone on so far.
he didn't take a gulp, he straight up chugged the whole thing down. old guy definitely doesn't feel pain right.
Sleep on
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Raijin QuickfootI'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The old man just pulling an egg out of boiling water?
There was that and also
Him taking a full-on gulp of that super hot coffee the second it was done brewing and handed to him. She even gave him a double-take when he did it. I saw it circulated around in the thread earlier that he might be Hooded Justice, which is starting to line up with everything that's gone on so far.
More and more convinced that "Will" is Hooded Justice, yeah. That he was portrayed as white in American Hero Story fits with the Bass Reeves of it all - a black hero revised into a white one in pop culture.
That Will mentions Dr. Manhattan making copies of himself, appearing in multiple places simultaneously, is VERY interesting when we have clones in play over in Jeremy Iron's Murder Castle. Those two story threads seem like they're going to intersect at some point.
Interesting that there's a whole conversation about false flag operations (and a reminder that they're A Big Thing in Watchmeniverse) in the same episode where we learn that AT LEAST one cop is a Klansmen/probable-Kavalry-member. The White Night as a false flag BY cops, as a means of increasing the authoritarian power of cops in a world with a liberal president, would be very in-keeping with the universe.
More and more convinced that "Will" is Hooded Justice, yeah. That he was portrayed as white in American Hero Story fits with the Bass Reeves of it all - a black hero revised into a white one in pop culture.
That Will mentions Dr. Manhattan making copies of himself, appearing in multiple places simultaneously, is VERY interesting when we have clones in play over in Jeremy Iron's Murder Castle. Those two story threads seem like they're going to intersect at some point.
Interesting that there's a whole conversation about false flag operations (and a reminder that they're A Big Thing in Watchmeniverse) in the same episode where we learn that AT LEAST one cop is a Klansmen/probable-Kavalry-member. The White Night as a false flag BY cops, as a means of increasing the authoritarian power of cops in a world with a liberal president, would be very in-keeping with the universe.
I wonder if they will also retain a couple of things about Hooded Justice from the back matter of the comic; a) the implication that he was gay and secretly in a relationship with Captain Metropolis, and b) Hollis Mason, the first Nite Owl, writing in his book that he recalled Hooded Justice expressing approval for the Third Reich
More and more convinced that "Will" is Hooded Justice, yeah. That he was portrayed as white in American Hero Story fits with the Bass Reeves of it all - a black hero revised into a white one in pop culture.
That Will mentions Dr. Manhattan making copies of himself, appearing in multiple places simultaneously, is VERY interesting when we have clones in play over in Jeremy Iron's Murder Castle. Those two story threads seem like they're going to intersect at some point.
Interesting that there's a whole conversation about false flag operations (and a reminder that they're A Big Thing in Watchmeniverse) in the same episode where we learn that AT LEAST one cop is a Klansmen/probable-Kavalry-member. The White Night as a false flag BY cops, as a means of increasing the authoritarian power of cops in a world with a liberal president, would be very in-keeping with the universe.
I wonder if they will also retain a couple of things about Hooded Justice from the back matter of the comic; a) the implication that he was gay and secretly in a relationship with Captain Metropolis, and b) Hollis Mason, the first Nite Owl, writing in his book that he recalled Hooded Justice expressing approval for the Third Reich
seems... hard to square that second one
the little leaflet he was reading that he dropped for Angela was propaganda from the nazi's.
More and more convinced that "Will" is Hooded Justice, yeah. That he was portrayed as white in American Hero Story fits with the Bass Reeves of it all - a black hero revised into a white one in pop culture.
That Will mentions Dr. Manhattan making copies of himself, appearing in multiple places simultaneously, is VERY interesting when we have clones in play over in Jeremy Iron's Murder Castle. Those two story threads seem like they're going to intersect at some point.
Interesting that there's a whole conversation about false flag operations (and a reminder that they're A Big Thing in Watchmeniverse) in the same episode where we learn that AT LEAST one cop is a Klansmen/probable-Kavalry-member. The White Night as a false flag BY cops, as a means of increasing the authoritarian power of cops in a world with a liberal president, would be very in-keeping with the universe.
I wonder if they will also retain a couple of things about Hooded Justice from the back matter of the comic; a) the implication that he was gay and secretly in a relationship with Captain Metropolis, and b) Hollis Mason, the first Nite Owl, writing in his book that he recalled Hooded Justice expressing approval for the Third Reich
seems... hard to square that second one
the little leaflet he was reading that he dropped for Angela was propaganda from the nazi's.
nope, that was World War I
the German Empire were not Nazis
More and more convinced that "Will" is Hooded Justice, yeah. That he was portrayed as white in American Hero Story fits with the Bass Reeves of it all - a black hero revised into a white one in pop culture.
That Will mentions Dr. Manhattan making copies of himself, appearing in multiple places simultaneously, is VERY interesting when we have clones in play over in Jeremy Iron's Murder Castle. Those two story threads seem like they're going to intersect at some point.
Interesting that there's a whole conversation about false flag operations (and a reminder that they're A Big Thing in Watchmeniverse) in the same episode where we learn that AT LEAST one cop is a Klansmen/probable-Kavalry-member. The White Night as a false flag BY cops, as a means of increasing the authoritarian power of cops in a world with a liberal president, would be very in-keeping with the universe.
I wonder if they will also retain a couple of things about Hooded Justice from the back matter of the comic; a) the implication that he was gay and secretly in a relationship with Captain Metropolis, and b) Hollis Mason, the first Nite Owl, writing in his book that he recalled Hooded Justice expressing approval for the Third Reich
seems... hard to square that second one
the little leaflet he was reading that he dropped for Angela was propaganda from the nazi's.
More and more convinced that "Will" is Hooded Justice, yeah. That he was portrayed as white in American Hero Story fits with the Bass Reeves of it all - a black hero revised into a white one in pop culture.
That Will mentions Dr. Manhattan making copies of himself, appearing in multiple places simultaneously, is VERY interesting when we have clones in play over in Jeremy Iron's Murder Castle. Those two story threads seem like they're going to intersect at some point.
Interesting that there's a whole conversation about false flag operations (and a reminder that they're A Big Thing in Watchmeniverse) in the same episode where we learn that AT LEAST one cop is a Klansmen/probable-Kavalry-member. The White Night as a false flag BY cops, as a means of increasing the authoritarian power of cops in a world with a liberal president, would be very in-keeping with the universe.
I wonder if they will also retain a couple of things about Hooded Justice from the back matter of the comic; a) the implication that he was gay and secretly in a relationship with Captain Metropolis, and b) Hollis Mason, the first Nite Owl, writing in his book that he recalled Hooded Justice expressing approval for the Third Reich
seems... hard to square that second one
the little leaflet he was reading that he dropped for Angela was propaganda from the nazi's.
nope, that was World War I
the German Empire were not Nazis
oh shit you right I fucked up the timeline
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GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
Thoughts
could be Hollis purposefully deflecting his identity or purposefully character assassinating him?
In any case it would be a fairly easy handwave that could be worth it for the narrative paths it would open.
When they cut from Angela staring down the second Kavalry member to her waking up in the hospital, and Judd tells her her assailant bled out...something's off with that, obviously. Either Judd's the second Kavalry member, and he spared her for some specific reason, or something else is going on. And what happened to her husband?
Also what was his present
Given where she was shot, my guess was the gift was somehow baby/pregnancy related.
Oh also: the kid who plays Topher did some very good work tonight
When Angela tells him that Judd's been killed, you can see him pause, process that information, and move on, and it's a great little bit of acting
he reminds me of dafne keen in Logan
unrelated, I have exactly one negative thing to say about this show so far, otherwise it is exactly as good as everyone says
in the first episode, Angela beating the fuck out of that klansman in interrogation is treated as an effective means of information extraction
this is a problem, because the way the public thinks about torture (partly due to media like this) is that it is immoral but effective, which causes people to start asking questions like "is it more immoral to torture one guy and potentially save hundreds of others with the information he knows, or to let those people die?"
there should be no questions like that because torture does not extract usable information--it is both immoral and ineffective
Yeah that was rather unfortunate, like the implication being "Torture is wrong unless you know the guy knows what you wanna know in which case rip his nipples off and etc."
Oh also: the kid who plays Topher did some very good work tonight
When Angela tells him that Judd's been killed, you can see him pause, process that information, and move on, and it's a great little bit of acting
he reminds me dafne keen in Logan
unrelated, I have exactly one negative thing to say about this show so far, otherwise it is exactly as good as everyone says
in the first episode, Angela beating the fuck out of that klansman in interrogation is treated as an effective means of information extraction
this is a problem, because the way the public thinks about torture (partly due to media like this) is that it is immoral but effective, which causes people to start asking questions like "is it more immoral to torture one guy and potentially save hundreds of others with the information he knows, or to let those people die?"
there should be no questions like that because torture does not extract usable information--it is both immoral and ineffective
Agreed with this, although
(mild, vague episode 2 spoilers)
I am beginning to wonder how accurate/effective that intel actually WAS. There are definitely fucky things going on i/r/t the Kavalry, the cops, and the intersection of the two
There's definitely a vibe of, "Somebody WANTS to escalate this, and is playing off the inherent violent tendencies of unchecked authoritarians."
Still don't LOVE it, but it might not be quite what it appears
+11
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GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
So thoughts here
psychics are a thing in the Watchmen comic. So was Topher floating that castle model with his mind or tech? Especially given the fear of more advanced technology
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AtomicTofuShe's a straight-up supervillain, yoRegistered Userregular
psychics are a thing in the Watchmen comic. So was Topher floating that castle model with his mind or tech? Especially given the fear of more advanced technology
I think it's definitely tech, and the model is floating off magnets or something in the base. The box in the scene is labelled "Manhattan Blocks"
Idle speculation/observations: I didn't do the work of actually comparing the two side by side but the model sure looks a lot like Veidt's manor
psychics are a thing in the Watchmen comic. So was Topher floating that castle model with his mind or tech? Especially given the fear of more advanced technology
I think it's definitely tech, and the model is floating off magnets or something in the base. The box in the scene is labelled "Manhattan Blocks"
Idle speculation/observations: I didn't do the work of actually comparing the two side by side but the model sure looks a lot like Veidt's manor
Yup and
same thing Manhattan was building and tearing down on Mars I think
+6
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GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
What is the likelihood that
Doctor Manhattan is not on Mars? He tells Veidt at the end of the book he is going to a different galaxy. And well we have a series looking to be based around multiple possible false flag type situations. So what if Manhattan isn’t on Mars at all and it’s a Veidt lie of some sort to make him look like he’s still around. As he would be the only one to know where Manhattan actually went.
Basically I’m trying to work out why the castle is our symbol tying the stories together.
Doctor Manhattan is not on Mars? He tells Veidt at the end of the book he is going to a different galaxy. And well we have a series looking to be based around multiple possible false flag type situations. So what if Manhattan isn’t on Mars at all and it’s a Veidt lie of some sort to make him look like he’s still around. As he would be the only one to know where Manhattan actually went.
Basically I’m trying to work out why the castle is our symbol tying the stories together.
Something that I don't even believe, but that I'll just toss out there:
What if Jeremy Irons IS Doctor Manhattan? What if Will's right, and he can change his appearance, and make copies of himself? But changing himself fucked him up, and/or he can't make the copies quite right.
Then the castle is connective tissue because they both belong to Doctor Manhattan.
Again, probably not right. But it's fun to play with I M A G I N A T I O N
Doctor Manhattan is not on Mars? He tells Veidt at the end of the book he is going to a different galaxy. And well we have a series looking to be based around multiple possible false flag type situations. So what if Manhattan isn’t on Mars at all and it’s a Veidt lie of some sort to make him look like he’s still around. As he would be the only one to know where Manhattan actually went.
Basically I’m trying to work out why the castle is our symbol tying the stories together.
Posts
The backmatter has a really fun angle on that phenomenon.
Dr. Manhattan advances tech rapidly, but then people get spooked about his tech maybe giving people cancer, and the world goes neo-Luddite for a spell. And then, they start to get over it, and start to find "safer" versions of that advanced, "dangerous" thing. Which absolutely tracks with how folks handle tech.
The fact that they thought that out, explicated it in ancillary material, didn't put ANY of it in the text of the show (yet), and yet it all plays as coherent and intentional and rational? Incredible.
What a show, what a show.
Personally, I don't need big twists in episode two. "We follow through on things we set up" is the message sent tonight, and that's VERY valuable in an episode two.
I assume it's the title of the painting that gets zoomed in on
It is
Related: having a closeted white supremacist be really into fetishizing Noble Braves is REALLY ACCURATE. It's this whole, "Ah, a worthy, vanquished foe" thing. Natives are viewed, by racists, as conquered and no-longer extant. Relegated to the past. To """remember""" them as mighty warriors is to paint the """victory""" as just, and worthy of praise.
Also, 7th Kavalry being named what it is, uh - you're gonna have some weird Indian shit around the edges
Also what was his present
Even if his job is acting exasperated when two of his weird clone boys drop a freshly made corpse on the ground.
I'm also wondering what's up with Angela's(?) ex?
Judd being the 2nd assailant and leaving Angela alive as a fit of conscience or her "being one of the good ones" is an interesting theory that I would like to see confirmed or denied.
Did anyone notice the shadowy figure behind Angela when she was at the DNA test booth? Is that going to come back later, someone tailing her?
Who's Will's other descendant?
More questions asked, but given the show's pace, we should see some follow up.
Wait till next Sunday then watch ep 1, 2, and 3 cause if there's anything about the end of 2 I can say it is like immediately said out loud to no "wait that was the whole hour, well what the fuck". I just immediately wanted more. Now I gotta wait a whole week.
I'm not waiting! I watched the first one last week and I'm watching this one this week!
All that anger gives him powers.
There was that and also
Steam Live: Azraith PSN: AzraithDeMitri
This makes a lot of sense
That Will mentions Dr. Manhattan making copies of himself, appearing in multiple places simultaneously, is VERY interesting when we have clones in play over in Jeremy Iron's Murder Castle. Those two story threads seem like they're going to intersect at some point.
Interesting that there's a whole conversation about false flag operations (and a reminder that they're A Big Thing in Watchmeniverse) in the same episode where we learn that AT LEAST one cop is a Klansmen/probable-Kavalry-member. The White Night as a false flag BY cops, as a means of increasing the authoritarian power of cops in a world with a liberal president, would be very in-keeping with the universe.
seems... hard to square that second one
the German Empire were not Nazis
The timing would have made it WW1
In any case it would be a fairly easy handwave that could be worth it for the narrative paths it would open.
Also Will was totally in Hooded Justice colors
A couple of weeks of peace and quiet and then two kids
Oh also I want tophers crazy floating blocks set, that thing looked dope.
he reminds me of dafne keen in Logan
unrelated, I have exactly one negative thing to say about this show so far, otherwise it is exactly as good as everyone says
this is a problem, because the way the public thinks about torture (partly due to media like this) is that it is immoral but effective, which causes people to start asking questions like "is it more immoral to torture one guy and potentially save hundreds of others with the information he knows, or to let those people die?"
there should be no questions like that because torture does not extract usable information--it is both immoral and ineffective
Agreed with this, although
(mild, vague episode 2 spoilers)
There's definitely a vibe of, "Somebody WANTS to escalate this, and is playing off the inherent violent tendencies of unchecked authoritarians."
Still don't LOVE it, but it might not be quite what it appears
Idle speculation/observations: I didn't do the work of actually comparing the two side by side but the model sure looks a lot like Veidt's manor
Steam
Yup and
Basically I’m trying to work out why the castle is our symbol tying the stories together.
Something that I don't even believe, but that I'll just toss out there:
Then the castle is connective tissue because they both belong to Doctor Manhattan.
Again, probably not right. But it's fun to play with I M A G I N A T I O N
Isn't there footage on the news?