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Who Watches HBO's [Watchmen]?

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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    So I figured out looking glass was dead about halfway through the episode, then just got real sad. Though I like that they've ended on only the implication he's dead. Gonna hold out hope for glass till we see a body, but his chances aren't looking good

  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    An interesting bit about this episode's music
    Okay, so the music that plays while Wade sneaks into the 7K hideout is Mozart's Requiem in D Minor. If you didn't know, Mozart had been writing it when he died. It was finished by one of his students. There's a very clear cutoff between the section that Mozart wrote and the rest of it, which in the show happens when Wade is looking at the cross, right before the basketball teleports in behind him. I was actually thinking that Wade would get killed right there, but maybe that would have been a bit on the nose.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    So I figured out looking glass was dead about halfway through the episode, then just got real sad. Though I like that they've ended on only the implication he's dead. Gonna hold out hope for glass till we see a body, but his chances aren't looking good
    he joined up and theyre going to meet him to do something

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    bsjezz wrote: »
    was the
    info in the senator's veidt tape known to us (the audience if they were familiar with the graphic novel) already? I forgot what was already explicit about the incident
    Yes. The ending of the comic series is explicitly explained that Veidt is doing this hoax to stop the Cold War
    remember, fbi lady knows its a hoax too

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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    I really liked the two cops
    theory crafting American Hero Story. "Hooded Justice is gonna be Doctor Manhattan!"

    I guess there are a buncha theories on Reddit that Angela's husband is Doctor Manhattan, so well done with that prediction, Lindelof.

    Oh brilliant
  • DrCongoDrCongo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    hey I just wanna make sure if any of you love this show and did not watch The Leftovers you gotta get on that shit like yesterday

    So uh not to derail too much but

    Re: the Leftovers, not sure if should be spoilered but anyway
    I've now watched the first two episodes of The Leftovers, and... so far it's mostly depressing, a bit annoying, weird, and makes me feel bad somehow. I hate most of the characters.

    Does it get better?

    In comparison, absolutely loving Watchmen, Episode 5 was incredible and just so much in the spirit of the comic.

  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    the first season of The Leftovers is basically a different show that is fully adapting the book it's based on

    the other two seasons leave the book behind for a new setting and shift tone to be a lot more like what Watchmen is doing

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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    I had no idea The Leftovers was a book! Neat.

    Anyway yeah that show becomes something amazing. It is absolutely worth powering through if you don't like the early misery.

    Oh brilliant
  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    Alright I just caught up and I am desperate for answers and could they please just air the rest of the episodes tonight, thanks

    Spoilers up to and including Episode 5
    While talking about this with @Grey Ghost as I try to process all the everything, he raised an important point

    Which is if Will is actually Hooded Justice, and his parents were killed as they left a movie theatre leaving him an orphan, there's an....obvious Batman allegory here

    Which uh

    Makes Angela into Batman Beyond I guess!!!

    Personally excited to see if Will has a cool dog and a mansion and a nice butler in the Animus trip next episode
    They are also tying it a bit into Superman as well! Parents sending their child out from a doomed home. And the actual music track of the scene is called Orphans of Krypton.

    I'm not sure what the swing of the whole series is especially with Lady Trieu and Will. But I think a lot of the joint usage of Superman imagery in both of their stories is a big clue.

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  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    edited November 2019
    Jeremy Irons
    So Ozy is on Europa, a moon of Jupiter. Jupiter to Juspeczyk. And my stupid pepe silvia brain is screaming DOCTOR MANHATTAN IS STILL ORBITING LAURIE!

    Gustav on
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  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    I liked that they used the original ending of the comic. I have not watched that episode yet.

  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    Still haven’t used checkov’s horseshoe

    And the dozen or so other mysteries that haven’t been revealed yet

    Very excited

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    DrCongo wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    hey I just wanna make sure if any of you love this show and did not watch The Leftovers you gotta get on that shit like yesterday

    So uh not to derail too much but

    Re: the Leftovers, not sure if should be spoilered but anyway
    I've now watched the first two episodes of The Leftovers, and... so far it's mostly depressing, a bit annoying, weird, and makes me feel bad somehow. I hate most of the characters.

    Does it get better?

    In comparison, absolutely loving Watchmen, Episode 5 was incredible and just so much in the spirit of the comic.

    The Leftovers is one of the few TV shows that gets better with every episode, all the way through its run, and also features one of the greatest episodes of a TV show of all time: International Assassin.

  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    I am not being hyperbolic when I say that once International Assassin starts, it will not glue you to your TV screen: you will glue yourself to the TV screen and continue watching slack-jawed for the entire episode. It is a fucking ride from beginning to end, and it will leave you questioning what you think you know about the fundamental truths of life, space-time, and the hereafter.

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    I tend to glue myself to everything on principle.

    Coworkers have started to complain but c'est la vie.

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  • GrogGrog My sword is only steel in a useful shape.Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    themes around inheritance continuing in this ep and peteypedia
    -the guy talking in the EDA group about how he thinks his trauma is inherited from his mother
    -red nostalgia pills are the "most intense" and are derived from "the patient or properly matched blood relative"
    -stuff about the minutemen sexual assault (with a typo about the comedian being 16?), followed by a bit more detail about what Laurie did in the aftermath of 1985
    -nostalgia ads specifically say they can complicate development for under-18s. how old do we reckon lady trieu's daughter is?
    -keene and judd's whole inheriting of secretive power

    Grog on
  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    this idea might be put paid to already from the promo, which i'm not going to watch, but since seeing
    angela neck the whole jar of nostalgia pills

    i'm definitely expecting a fucked up hour of television next week

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  • VeldrinVeldrin Sham bam bamina Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    Ok, so like

    ep 5
    The Veidt video was definitely fake, right?

    There's been way too much stuff about genetically engineering duplicates for it not to be.

    edit: ...though I guess we didn't see whatever was in that following couple of hours on the video, so hmm.

    Veldrin on
  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    Veldrin wrote: »
    Ok, so like

    ep 5
    The Veidt video was definitely fake, right?

    There's been way too much stuff about genetically engineering duplicates for it not to be.

    edit: ...though I guess we didn't see whatever was in that following couple of hours on the video, so hmm.
    I kinda think that it's real considering it's 100% accurate? Like I guess it could be faked but narratively making it "fake but correct" seems a little too muddy

  • VeldrinVeldrin Sham bam bamina Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Veldrin wrote: »
    Ok, so like

    ep 5
    The Veidt video was definitely fake, right?

    There's been way too much stuff about genetically engineering duplicates for it not to be.

    edit: ...though I guess we didn't see whatever was in that following couple of hours on the video, so hmm.
    I kinda think that it's real considering it's 100% accurate? Like I guess it could be faked but narratively making it "fake but correct" seems a little too muddy

    Ok yeah, I think I was definitely overthinking it
    My initial take was the Veidt video implied that the actual squid attack was entirely fake and there was something else behind it, but yeah that does seem unnecessarily complicated.

  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    Also remember who
    Veidt is. He claimed not to be a Republic serial villain but he totally is. Villian mansion, engineered pets, villain speeches . Doing a "I did it and it was great" is totally inline with his megolomania

  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    It's a bit clunky for the rest of the series. Because part of the whole point of his plot is that no world leaders or really anyone knew what happened. So making a video to alert the future president kinda puts that on its head. But I also imagine you have to clue non book readers into the whole plot somehow. So it's probably a necessary bit of writing but not a graceful one.

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  • CelloCello Registered User regular
    Gustav wrote: »
    It's a bit clunky for the rest of the series. Because part of the whole point of his plot is that no world leaders or really anyone knew what happened. So making a video to alert the future president kinda puts that on its head. But I also imagine you have to clue non book readers into the whole plot somehow. So it's probably a necessary bit of writing but not a graceful one.

    Also Veidt has an ego the size of the moon he now lives on, and is desperate for approval after Manhattan dunked on him so hard

    I definitely could see the guy deciding to loop in people in power to get their respect and try to exert control after the fact to build his utopia

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  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    Also you're gonna reach a point where
    nuclear war isn't looming anymore but you still can't reveal the deception, so you can take the chance of looping world leaders in to be complicit and help keep up the lie lest the people find out and riot

  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    If I'm remembering the Graphitti hardcover backmatter correctly,
    Moore said that Veidt would live to be 150 years old. So it makes a lot of sense to me that long term, he'd absolutely want credit for saving the world - at least, from "the right people".

    Also, (speculation)
    I 100% think the 7th Kavalry science division is trying to save Veidt. We know that they know that Veidt made it all up - and if they idolize Roscharch, they'd want the world to know that.

    I'm probably wrong, but it seems appropriately Lindeloff-ish.

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  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    Oh yeah if i pivot my head a bit it totally works. But it ultimately felt more like deck setting a bit than natural progression. Which is a minor hitch all things considered

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    Gustav wrote: »
    It's a bit clunky for the rest of the series. Because part of the whole point of his plot is that no world leaders or really anyone knew what happened. So making a video to alert the future president kinda puts that on its head. But I also imagine you have to clue non book readers into the whole plot somehow. So it's probably a necessary bit of writing but not a graceful one.

    Also Veidt has an ego the size of the moon he now lives on, and is desperate for approval after Manhattan dunked on him so hard

    I definitely could see the guy deciding to loop in people in power to get their respect and try to exert control after the fact to build his utopia
    he recorded the tape before doing the thing, thats the squid's eye behind him

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Gustav wrote: »
    Oh yeah if i pivot my head a bit it totally works. But it ultimately felt more like deck setting a bit than natural progression. Which is a minor hitch all things considered
    The tape is a bit clumsy as an exposition device, but it does bring the squid attack inline with the season's other themes. Veidt tells Redford that he killed more than 3 million people not just to stop the immediate threat of nuclear war but also as the first step in creating a more just society. It's another layer on the questions of whether you can build a lasting peace on lies and murder that connects with the victims of Tulsa and Vietnam.

  • bsjezzbsjezz Registered User regular
    Also, (speculation)
    I 100% think the 7th Kavalry science division is trying to save Veidt. We know that they know that Veidt made it all up - and if they idolize Roscharch, they'd want the world to know that.

    I'm probably wrong, but it seems appropriately Lindeloff-ish.

    my inference was that
    they're working on future hoaxes. the opening episode's squid rain was almost certainly their work. are watch batteries next?

    one thing i'll add is that the post-veidt world is certainly not painted as dystopian, in the sense that the setting of the graphic novel was. sure, there's terrorism and conflict, but the terrorism feels strangely... toothless? or... intelligently political? on the other hand, some of the world's strides towards social justice are more speculative and i feel earnest exaggerations of areas for progress. maybe i'm wrong, but more often than not i feel like 2019 in this universe is utopic.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    he strongly infers the rains are his doing.
    The batteries are likely related to the portal

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    bsjezz wrote: »
    Also, (speculation)
    I 100% think the 7th Kavalry science division is trying to save Veidt. We know that they know that Veidt made it all up - and if they idolize Roscharch, they'd want the world to know that.

    I'm probably wrong, but it seems appropriately Lindeloff-ish.

    my inference was that
    they're working on future hoaxes. the opening episode's squid rain was almost certainly their work. are watch batteries next?

    one thing i'll add is that the post-veidt world is certainly not painted as dystopian, in the sense that the setting of the graphic novel was. sure, there's terrorism and conflict, but the terrorism feels strangely... toothless? or... intelligently political? on the other hand, some of the world's strides towards social justice are more speculative and i feel earnest exaggerations of areas for progress. maybe i'm wrong, but more often than not i feel like 2019 in this universe is utopic.
    It's a utopia built on mass murder and deception, though. It's a The Ones Who Walked Away from Omelas scenario, with the three million dead in New York City serving the role of the abused child.

  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    That we are collectively interrogating, "Is this good, and was it worth the cost?" is rather the point, I imagine

    I would be surprised if we are given a clean answer to a question that complicated

  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    Gustav wrote: »
    Oh yeah if i pivot my head a bit it totally works. But it ultimately felt more like deck setting a bit than natural progression. Which is a minor hitch all things considered
    The tape is a bit clumsy as an exposition device, but it does bring the squid attack inline with the season's other themes. Veidt tells Redford that he killed more than 3 million people not just to stop the immediate threat of nuclear war but also as the first step in creating a more just society. It's another layer on the questions of whether you can build a lasting peace on lies and murder that connects with the victims of Tulsa and Vietnam.

    Ok you know what I rescind my point. I like this read

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  • CelloCello Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    Gustav wrote: »
    It's a bit clunky for the rest of the series. Because part of the whole point of his plot is that no world leaders or really anyone knew what happened. So making a video to alert the future president kinda puts that on its head. But I also imagine you have to clue non book readers into the whole plot somehow. So it's probably a necessary bit of writing but not a graceful one.

    Also Veidt has an ego the size of the moon he now lives on, and is desperate for approval after Manhattan dunked on him so hard

    I definitely could see the guy deciding to loop in people in power to get their respect and try to exert control after the fact to build his utopia
    he recorded the tape before doing the thing, thats the squid's eye behind him

    Hah, I missed this. Probably because I was watching it on my tiny tablet and just thought "hmmm he looks awfully like a guy from the old Tex Murphy games right about now" with regards to the lighting and weird background

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  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    Oh I totally missed that too. I figured
    it was right before the others showed up to try and stop him. But that’s solid confirmation

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Gustav wrote: »
    Oh I totally missed that too. I figured
    it was right before the others showed up to try and stop him. But that’s solid confirmation
    it also confirms they'll recast the characters so good odds on Manhatten showing up

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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Gustav wrote: »
    Oh I totally missed that too. I figured
    it was right before the others showed up to try and stop him. But that’s solid confirmation
    it also confirms they'll recast the characters so good odds on Manhatten showing up
    Looking more and more likely the clones with Veidt might be life made in Manhattan's image

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
  • GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    Matev wrote: »
    Gustav wrote: »
    Oh I totally missed that too. I figured
    it was right before the others showed up to try and stop him. But that’s solid confirmation
    it also confirms they'll recast the characters so good odds on Manhatten showing up
    Looking more and more likely the clones with Veidt might be life made in Manhattan's image

    Huh
    wait so the clones would be Osterman and Janey Slater? I’m not sure I buy it yet. But it’s an intriguing notion

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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Gustav wrote: »
    Matev wrote: »
    Gustav wrote: »
    Oh I totally missed that too. I figured
    it was right before the others showed up to try and stop him. But that’s solid confirmation
    it also confirms they'll recast the characters so good odds on Manhatten showing up
    Looking more and more likely the clones with Veidt might be life made in Manhattan's image

    Huh
    wait so the clones would be Osterman and Janey Slater? I’m not sure I buy it yet. But it’s an intriguing notion
    Janey Slater maybe, not 100% sure on that yet, but would be the easiest explanation. Osterman definitely though. Fits a lot of where we're at so far.

    -Manhattan is obviously holding onto Veidt for his own reasons.
    -Created a habitat on one of Jupiter's moons, similar to the city of glass on Mars.
    -Only known quantity who could possibly do this to Veidt in this fashion and would have any desire to punish him.
    -Would explain the delight Vedit took in the clones performing his play and burning Mr. Phillips.
    -Murdering the clones as part of not letting them get too smart/covering his tracks for his escape.
    -The Warden talking about their god, and the old thing about God making Man in his own image. This is pretty much Manhattan's Garden of Eden, and Veidt's the serpent he decided to inter here.(Especially him snagging the tomatoes/pomegranates/apples from the tree in the first episode.

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
  • PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    The Warden
    Is just a Mr. Phillips with a mustache and Lone Ranger mask, right?

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