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[Canadian Politics] Take care. Listen to health authorities.

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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    Super cool clean drinking water is less than cutting cell bills. Great job fellow citizens.


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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Aridhol wrote: »
    Super cool clean drinking water is less than cutting cell bills. Great job fellow citizens.

    Bit dramatic there. They are 2% apart, solo within the margin of error. And cell phone bills are something everyone is personally affected by, while clean water is something that is only a problem on remote reserves, so something I expect a lot of people are not aware is a problem (it's not like our MSM care enough to report on it, and we just went through an election so you know how uninformed and unaware the average voter is).

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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    13% are against prioritizing clean drinking water and another 10 aren't sure and I'm being dramatic?

    To be clear this should be a priority for govt 100%
    It doesn't need to be the only thing but it needs to be one of the things.

    Aridhol on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I mean, if we are being serious here, the very fact that 76% of people put "Clean Drinking Water for First Nations communities" as a priority suggests right on it's face that the survey methodology here is ... not bad, but certainly not quite what I think some people believe it is. My assumption would be that the issues in question were listed off for the callers. On a free-form question, I doubt most people even bring it up.

    This is likely why you see so many things scoring so high and so many things scoring so similar to other things. Everyone is just saying "Oh yeah, that seems like a good idea" to practically anything the questioner lists off that doesn't sound immediately objectionable.

    Aridhol wrote: »
    13% are against prioritizing clean drinking water and another 10 aren't sure and I'm being dramatic?

    To be clear this should be a priority for govt 100%
    It doesn't need to be the only thing but it needs to be one of the things.

    Yes, it's probably being a wee bit dramatic. You can usually get at least 10% of people on a survey to agree to anything.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Well, things are off to a great start...

    Trudeau rules out a coalition, prioritize trans-mountain expansion, and wants to do more for Alberta to heal this divided country. Meanwhile, Scheer declares his priority is to continue working towards the only goal of ousting Trudeau.

    Trudeau has heard nothing of the message voters gave him in this election.

    Anyway, I think the reaction to this is overblown. Reading through the whole thing, it seems pretty boilerplate PR stuff. The most notable and talked about thing with the election results has been the huge western regional divide. So Trudeau addresses this as all winning politicians would: trite pablum about how we need to reach out to <insert region we lost massively in>.

    The pipeline issue is and always has been imo less about winning seats in Alberta (although I'm certain they'd like it that happened) and more about considerations for the Canadian economy as a whole.

    I am honestly not expecting a massive shift in how this government operates overall. It's gonna be the same rough agenda, tempered by their ability to get other parties to vote with them on stuff. The major changes I suspect will be behind the scenes to avoid another SNC-Lavalin-style debacle (ie - make sure none of your major players are looking to martyr themselves).

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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    Yep second verse same as the first a little more loyal and a little less diverse

    Edit: in regards to the new Liberal cabinet

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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    MWO: Adamski
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    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    I seriously can't believe Trudeau is looking at the lay of the land and thinking the smart move is to go pro alberta. These people hate and despise him simply for being the son of Pierre Trudeau and even after he gave them the fucking pipeline they still responded by going all in on the conservatives.

    Meanwhile the NDP is reeling after the resurgence of the bloc and has a bedrock of policy more thoroughly grounded in reality then that of the conservatives who could best be described as "reality adjacent".

    Just... I didn't vote for this.

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    I don't find it terribly surprising that the centrist party is trying to split the difference

    'Campaign from the left, govern from the right' is a meme for a reason

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I think it's a mistake to view this as solely a handout to Alberta. It seems far more likely the Liberals just think the pipeline is good for the Canadian economy.

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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    shryke wrote: »
    I think it's a mistake to view this as solely a handout to Alberta. It seems far more likely the Liberals just think the pipeline is good for the Canadian economy.

    Yeah the Liberals genuinely believe that responsible resource extraction is a net good for Canada.
    Also, they're correct.

    You don't leave the economic prosperity that enables you to invest in the next boom (green energy, electric vehicles) in the ground so that other countries can kick the shit out of you.


    edit: to put super fine point on it, moral authority doesn't feed any families.

    Aridhol on
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    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Like don't get me wrong, I understand the value of the keystone pipeline but Alberta benefitted from the damn thing more then anyone else given that it has to run through their territory and speeds up the exporting of oil signifigantly.

    So why in the fuck would you're immediate response to them flipping you the bird and going all in on your most pressing rivals be to try and placate them when you don't actually need them in the first place? Like if we put aside ontario and quebec as relatively safe for liberals and need to look beyond that, you still have the maratimes, the territories and BC, all of which you could reap a more effective set of rewards from with a much lower ammount of effort compared to the province where you are likened to Pol Pot.

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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    It seems you guys have really bought into the idea of the 'winning team'. That is, people who didn't vote Liberal shouldn't have their concerns addressed?

    Hey, I didn't vote liberal in this election, so fuck me, right?

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    Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    This is one of the reasons I like the Liberals and Trudeau and despise conservatives. Trudeau is willing to not be spiteful and try to do what is best for the country regardless of if a particular region supports him. He is trying to be a PM for the whole country. Conservatives would just be vindictive pricks. It may not win the Liberals any seats in Alberta come next election but it makes me willing to continue to vote Liberal.

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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    It seems you guys have really bought into the idea of the 'winning team'. That is, people who didn't vote Liberal shouldn't have their concerns addressed?

    Hey, I didn't vote liberal in this election, so fuck me, right?

    That's not what we're saying at all.

    We're saying that the people who said "fuck the Liberals and everyone who voted for them" shouldn't have their concerns prioritised by the new Liberal government above those of Liberal voters and of "I'm voting for another party because I'm not happy with the Liberals but I'm open to coming back if they improve".

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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    No, you're not. You objected to the very idea of Trudeau working on behalf of Alberta.

    Alberta is part of Canada, so he is obligated to work on behalf of Alberta. Ontario and Quebec aren't the beginning nor the end of our country.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Like don't get me wrong, I understand the value of the keystone pipeline but Alberta benefitted from the damn thing more then anyone else given that it has to run through their territory and speeds up the exporting of oil signifigantly.

    So why in the fuck would you're immediate response to them flipping you the bird and going all in on your most pressing rivals be to try and placate them when you don't actually need them in the first place? Like if we put aside ontario and quebec as relatively safe for liberals and need to look beyond that, you still have the maratimes, the territories and BC, all of which you could reap a more effective set of rewards from with a much lower ammount of effort compared to the province where you are likened to Pol Pot.

    Because Trudeau et. al. want to sell the oil, and pipelines are safer than shipping it via rail? Not safe, mind you, but safer.

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    vsovevsove ....also yes. Registered User regular
    Here’s the thing. As an Albertan, I have a petty desire for Trudeau to tell us to fuck off for three reasons.

    1) The people complaining about being ignored by Ottawa and also saying Kenney should ignore Edmonton since we didn’t vote for UCP are largely the same people, and I’ve already gotten to use this argument

    2) Some Albertans need to see what being ignored -actually- looks like, and it isn’t ‘bought a pipeline’ and ‘billions in federal funding’.

    3) This whole #wexit thing feels like the last thing anyone should be indulging, and the right wing politicos behind it will undoubtedly use any additional dollars as proof that ‘see, acting like spoiled children works!’

    But in reality, ignoring Alberta is just going to make things worse. That said, I would prefer they not prioritize our needs over those of the country as a whole.

    WATCH THIS SPACE.
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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    No, you're not. You objected to the very idea of Trudeau working on behalf of Alberta.

    Alberta is part of Canada, so he is obligated to work on behalf of Alberta. Ontario and Quebec aren't the beginning nor the end of our country.

    Absolutely, he should work on the behalf of every and all provinces and territories, including Alberta.

    He should orient that work in accordance with the wishes of the majority of Canadians who supported the Liberal party's agenda and other left-wing parties with similar agendas to the Liberal parties.

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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    No, you're not. You objected to the very idea of Trudeau working on behalf of Alberta.

    Alberta is part of Canada, so he is obligated to work on behalf of Alberta. Ontario and Quebec aren't the beginning nor the end of our country.

    Absolutely, he should work on the behalf of every and all provinces and territories, including Alberta.

    He should orient that work in accordance with the wishes of the majority of Canadians who supported the Liberal party's agenda and other left-wing parties with similar agendas to the Liberal parties.

    I mean, he's been working on getting the pipelines built for his entire previous term. Did you expect that to change if he won again?

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    RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    No, you're not. You objected to the very idea of Trudeau working on behalf of Alberta.

    Alberta is part of Canada, so he is obligated to work on behalf of Alberta. Ontario and Quebec aren't the beginning nor the end of our country.

    Absolutely, he should work on the behalf of every and all provinces and territories, including Alberta.

    He should orient that work in accordance with the wishes of the majority of Canadians who supported the Liberal party's agenda and other left-wing parties with similar agendas to the Liberal parties.

    I mean, he's been working on getting the pipelines built for his entire previous term. Did you expect that to change if he won again?

    Well most of the country either supported him despite being anti-pipeline or supported other anti-pipeline parties, and the one province to benefit from the pipeline told him to fuck right off, so... yeah?

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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    vsove wrote: »
    Here’s the thing. As an Albertan, I have a petty desire for Trudeau to tell us to fuck off for three reasons.

    1) The people complaining about being ignored by Ottawa and also saying Kenney should ignore Edmonton since we didn’t vote for UCP are largely the same people, and I’ve already gotten to use this argument

    2) Some Albertans need to see what being ignored -actually- looks like, and it isn’t ‘bought a pipeline’ and ‘billions in federal funding’.

    3) This whole #wexit thing feels like the last thing anyone should be indulging, and the right wing politicos behind it will undoubtedly use any additional dollars as proof that ‘see, acting like spoiled children works!’

    But in reality, ignoring Alberta is just going to make things worse. That said, I would prefer they not prioritize our needs over those of the country as a whole.

    There's no ROI for any political party to invest in Alberta, really. It's why the Conservatives actually don't give a fuck about Alberta, and why Harper didn't do jack for the province.

    The federal government working at building a pipeline is the expenditure of political capital since you have to work at convincing other provinces. Any time or money or influence the Conservatives (or anyone else, really) spend on trying to accomplish this will not change the outcome of any federal election. Alberta votes Conservative and that won't change. IF government is supposed to be run like a business, then Conservatives would be fools to stick their neck out for Alberta's benefit. That effort is better spent on convincing Ontario or Quebec to vote for them. For the Liberals, it's the same, because Alberta won't vote for them under any circumstance.

    At the end of the day, Albertans have really pushed themselves out, but that doesn't mean the government, which is supposed to work for all Canadians, should ignore their priorities.

    And the thing is, resource development is something that benefits the nation as a whole. And Trudeau won a minority government with the record of being pro-pipeline.

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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    No, you're not. You objected to the very idea of Trudeau working on behalf of Alberta.

    Alberta is part of Canada, so he is obligated to work on behalf of Alberta. Ontario and Quebec aren't the beginning nor the end of our country.

    Absolutely, he should work on the behalf of every and all provinces and territories, including Alberta.

    He should orient that work in accordance with the wishes of the majority of Canadians who supported the Liberal party's agenda and other left-wing parties with similar agendas to the Liberal parties.

    I mean, he's been working on getting the pipelines built for his entire previous term. Did you expect that to change if he won again?

    Well most of the country either supported him despite being anti-pipeline or supported other anti-pipeline parties, and the one province to benefit from the pipeline told him to fuck right off, so... yeah?

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/poll-trans-mountain-pipeline-support-angus-reid-1.5282430

    I don't think that's clear at all, Richy.

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    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    No, you're not. You objected to the very idea of Trudeau working on behalf of Alberta.

    Alberta is part of Canada, so he is obligated to work on behalf of Alberta. Ontario and Quebec aren't the beginning nor the end of our country.

    Absolutely, he should work on the behalf of every and all provinces and territories, including Alberta.

    He should orient that work in accordance with the wishes of the majority of Canadians who supported the Liberal party's agenda and other left-wing parties with similar agendas to the Liberal parties.

    I mean, he's been working on getting the pipelines built for his entire previous term. Did you expect that to change if he won again?

    It does seem a bit odd to have that take pride of place compared to, well, anything else he campaigned on.

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    BlarghyBlarghy Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    No, you're not. You objected to the very idea of Trudeau working on behalf of Alberta.

    Alberta is part of Canada, so he is obligated to work on behalf of Alberta. Ontario and Quebec aren't the beginning nor the end of our country.

    Absolutely, he should work on the behalf of every and all provinces and territories, including Alberta.

    He should orient that work in accordance with the wishes of the majority of Canadians who supported the Liberal party's agenda and other left-wing parties with similar agendas to the Liberal parties.

    I mean, he's been working on getting the pipelines built for his entire previous term. Did you expect that to change if he won again?

    Well most of the country either supported him despite being anti-pipeline or supported other anti-pipeline parties, and the one province to benefit from the pipeline told him to fuck right off, so... yeah?

    I'm pretty sure that a big chunk of liberal votes either was fine with the pipeline or just don't care either way. Frankly, the opposition to the pipelines seem more than a bit unreasonable to me (a liberal voter).

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    HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Nova_C wrote: »
    No, you're not. You objected to the very idea of Trudeau working on behalf of Alberta.

    Alberta is part of Canada, so he is obligated to work on behalf of Alberta. Ontario and Quebec aren't the beginning nor the end of our country.

    Absolutely, he should work on the behalf of every and all provinces and territories, including Alberta.

    He should orient that work in accordance with the wishes of the majority of Canadians who supported the Liberal party's agenda and other left-wing parties with similar agendas to the Liberal parties.

    I mean, he's been working on getting the pipelines built for his entire previous term. Did you expect that to change if he won again?

    Well most of the country either supported him despite being anti-pipeline or supported other anti-pipeline parties, and the one province to benefit from the pipeline told him to fuck right off, so... yeah?

    dude what are you talking about?

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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    This fuck X province, fuck Y province plays 1000% into the "#WEXIT" idiots playbook.

    There is a lot of anxiety because the oil patch sees the writing on the wall and that combined with Trudeau as a person (re: effeminate) resulted in all the blue.
    I think the Liberal strategy is to say "Hey, oil fucks, we will get your product to market while doing all the rest of the progressive/green shit, give us a chance"
    They can do this because absolutely no one else in the country can stomach a conservative govt. right now so why not try and make inroads?

    Any government that just abandons Alberta/Sask all to themselves is not one I'd vote for. There are real humans there and I believe there is a balance to be had with Oil vs Green energy if someone tries.


    for my own part I hate a lot of what Quebec is doing but there is NO CHANCE I would vote for a party that said "fuck Quebec, we don't care" because Canada is a country and not a bunch of petty fiefdoms.

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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Quebec separation I can at least understand somewhat. Francophone culture can at times seem like it is its own completely separate thing, virtually divorced from the rest of Canada. So I can understand the desire to want to just leave and be their own thing. I don't agree with it, but I can see it.

    Alberta separation is just the bratty petulant child threatening to run away because their parents wouldn't buy them a chocolate bar at the store.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    Having spent the last 5 years of my life in Saskatchewan, feel free to abandon it. Racist Evangelical Christians outnumber the decent people by far too much to be worth the effort in the short or medium term.

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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    I get it but I don't think we should write off any Canadians.
    Those folks will say the same thing about us and then where does it end?

    I'm not keen on becoming the USA.

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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    edited October 2019
    Don't write them off in the sense of cutting off funding. Also don't give into the regressive horseshit they've been manipulated into supporting.

    Just admit to yourself you won't be getting their votes and then do your level best to fix whatever of their problems can be fixed at the federal level. Then at election time, try to remind them that even if you didn't do what they wanted you still fixed a lot of problems.

    That's all you can do.

    And yes, it's paternalistic, but how else are you supposed to treat people who act like children?

    Shadowen on
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    I would really rather the prairies not turn into our version of the american south minus the black people.

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    After the Colten Boushie debacle thats been pretty much my read on the region, a take to which First Nations people say "welcome to the fuckin party pal"

    Broke as fuck in the style of the times. Gratitude is all that can return on your generosity.

    https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
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    Romantic UndeadRomantic Undead Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I would really rather the prairies not turn into our version of the american south minus the black people.

    As would I, but I think part of the frustration we're expressing here is that we don't see any viable alternatives here, if the prairies are unwilling to consider that what the liberals are doing is in their interests. I mean, how else do you deal with people who cannot see reason?

    3DS FC: 1547-5210-6531
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    BlazeFireBlazeFire Registered User regular
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Having spent the last 5 years of my life in Saskatchewan, feel free to abandon it. Racist Evangelical Christians outnumber the decent people by far too much to be worth the effort in the short or medium term.

    What's your threshold? 33% of Saskatchewan voters cast for Liberals, NDP, or Green party.

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Don't write them off in the sense of cutting off funding. Also don't give into the regressive horseshit they've been manipulated into supporting.

    Just admit to yourself you won't be getting their votes and then do your level best to fix whatever of their problems can be fixed at the federal level. Then at election time, try to remind them that even if you didn't do what they wanted you still fixed a lot of problems.

    That's all you can do.

    And yes, it's paternalistic, but how else are you supposed to treat people who act like children?

    Alberta politics are really dumb

    But I hear if we want to be patronizing and paternalistic Ontario voters have really grabbed the golden ring

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Don't write them off in the sense of cutting off funding. Also don't give into the regressive horseshit they've been manipulated into supporting.

    Just admit to yourself you won't be getting their votes and then do your level best to fix whatever of their problems can be fixed at the federal level. Then at election time, try to remind them that even if you didn't do what they wanted you still fixed a lot of problems.

    That's all you can do.

    And yes, it's paternalistic, but how else are you supposed to treat people who act like children?

    Alberta politics are really dumb

    But I hear if we want to be patronizing and paternalistic Ontario voters have really grabbed the golden ring

    Why?

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    CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I would really rather the prairies not turn into our version of the american south minus the black people.

    What do you mean minus the black people?

    There are black people in Canada.

    And the way First Nations people are vilified, stereotyped, and systemically treated for generations by the federal and provincial ministries and services implementing the racist Indian Act, we already have our own version, sorry.

    If you don't think its already turned into our own version, you've got a really big blind spot.

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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    I would really rather the prairies not turn into our version of the american south minus the black people.

    What do you mean minus the black people?

    There are black people in Canada.

    And the way First Nations people are vilified, stereotyped, and systemically treated for generations by the federal and provincial ministries and services implementing the racist Indian Act, we already have our own version, sorry.

    If you don't think its already turned into our own version, you've got a really big blind spot.

    I have no idea what you are getting so upset over here. The classic character of the american south is a white mostly conservative overclass and a very large democratic-leaning black underclass. The prairies lack the second part even as we sometimes compare their political outlook to the the South (in terms of consistent conservatism).

    eg - Mississippi is like almost 40% black, Alberta's higher visible minority population is in the ~5% range

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    psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    BlazeFire wrote: »
    psyck0 wrote: »
    Having spent the last 5 years of my life in Saskatchewan, feel free to abandon it. Racist Evangelical Christians outnumber the decent people by far too much to be worth the effort in the short or medium term.

    What's your threshold? 33% of Saskatchewan voters cast for Liberals, NDP, or Green party.

    Yes. They are severely outnumbered by the racist religious Christians.

    Play Smash Bros 3DS with me! 4399-1034-5444
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    Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    The prairies isn't like the "American South".

    If treatment of the First Nations is the criteria, then the whole of Canada is like the 'American South'. There is no where in this country where they aren't vilified.

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