[The Witcher] Season 1 May be Done, But the Memes are Still Going

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  • SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    I watched the rest of the season

    (full season spoilers, book spoilers)
    I gotta say, episode 6 (dragon) was my favourite so far. If you just remove Ciri's story and like the last ten minutes of the Geralt and Yen plot I'd have said it was excellent. The parts they cut (e.g. the long meal with Borch, the knight dude challenging the dragon to single combat) were either the right calls or understandable given their CGI budget; things were lighthearted and funny; Yarpen was fantastic and so was Jaskier; I didn't mind the CGI of the dragon. But then it was a bit harder to tolerate Yen using blades instead of magic, and then harder still to have her interpret Geralt's last wish that way without the show indicating otherwise (Wyborn thought it was inappropriate as a whole to have Yen assume he wished away her free will when that never seems like the case in the books; I think it's fine to have Yen cynically assume that that was what happened when it wasn't, though I agree it's a shame they didn't go with the books' version where her issue is thinking she can't truly actually love other people).

    Oh, Ciri's part was still awful though; having the dopper there and be a serial killer was... an odd choice. They could've just had him be non-violent and threatened him into compliance, and Ciri could have gotten away because the doppler's better nature shows through? He acknowledges the law of surprise? That would have a) kept to the books better and b) wouldn't have resulted in more gratuitous violence. But I take it the point was having more gratuitous violence to begin with


    Episode 7 was... odd, being half of the Something More story, which they lengthened into most of two episodes instead of just part of one like the others. It really feels like nothing much happened. More than that, having Geralt remain in Cintra during the fall, and earnestly try to find Ciri... kinda absolves him of his part in the destiny fuckup? I don't get why they did it, as sharing the blame with Calenthe (and his guilt over the situation) makes for an interesting character bit.

    Oh and having Istredd reject Yen was........ a choice


    Episode 8 - jeepers, they sure kept the part with Geralt's mom, which feels even more odd than it does in the stories (perhaps because there isn't a gradual allusion to her in the earlier episodes). I didn't mind seeing Sodden, though the magic was sadly lacking again, or outright bizarre (the worms......). Introducing Vilgefortz that way wasn't very compelling; I feel like even if he chose to throw the battle he'd have wanted to do it in some way that still made him seem impressive. And he probably should have been kept a bit more impressive to the audience as well. And I guess the reason they made fire magic forbidden was so Yen could channel that final fire in the ending sequence?

    I always love the second part of the Something More story, with the merchant and his wife, and it was done pretty good here--but having it be Geralt and Ciri's first actual meeting feels... really strange? And them embracing really changes the feeling of the scene. And I'd have preferred not to have her last second disappearance and Renfri talking.........and that last line of Ciri's was just abrupt and I'd have strongly suggested some other way to do it (perhaps her seeing Yen and Geralt in a vision and having the closing statement about all three of them together, not phrased as a question)

    Wuff, OK, season done. General feeling about it: it wasn't fantastic, but then I am really glad it's gotten the series more attention from the general public, and will inevitably get more people reading the books and playing the games

    The main weakness, I feel, was making the tone of the show a lot more grim and violent than the stories. The books, especially the short stories, are so, so fun and funny and lighthearted and also suddenly bittersweet and tragic, and it's easy to see where Netflix (or even the writers themselves) felt compelled to Game of Thrones it up but with a far lesser budget

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    The weirdest overall decision to me for this season is the way they handle Ciri

    She ends up getting a lot more screentime than if they had followed the books, and yet a lot less characterization. She mostly just like, follows people around. She just seems like a very ordinary girl right now, which... Is gonna be tough for future seasons, because Ciri's a weird character. Like good, but she's like... Well, if she was any character from the Expanse, she'd be Amos.

    That whole last sequence was kind of weird beyond just Ciri
    Like in the show the guy that Geralt saves is Super Nice, he's like taking time to bury bodies of people he doesn't know. And his wife is also Super Duper Nice, to the point that it feels like she must actually be evil because nobody actually acts like that.

    The book version is just much better...
    The guy is just a merchant who's been on a long trade journey, and now he's almost home with all his profits for like 2 years of work. So when his cart breaks his assistants flee but he stays, and he makes a deal with Geralt to save him from the monsters about to attack. The whole point is that he's a merchant, seemingly motivated by greed, who'll die before he sees his profits disappear. It's not that dissimilar from other shady characters who've repeatedly tried to rip Geralt off in the past, and Geralt doesn't have a high opinion of him. And Geralt gets hurt in the fight and passes out... This ordinary merchant now doesn't need to pay, he can easily just leave Geralt to die. And instead he doesn't. He pays for medicine and a doctor, he looks after him, he helps nurse Geralt back to health. It's the much more normal characterization of finding out someone's just a decent guy who's going to do the right thing even though there's nothing in it for him. And I think it's a lot more powerful than the show version - obviously a saint will treat Geralt as a fellow human being, it means a lot more when it's coming from just a normal-ass regular dude who's just practicing common decency.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Platy wrote: »
    Henry Cavill spends his free time playing vidyagames so you all are probably safe

    I wonder if Henry Cavill now plays Witcher 3 with the mod that makes Geralt look like Henry Cavill

  • GrogGrog My sword is only steel in a useful shape.Registered User regular
    Platy wrote: »
    Henry Cavill spends his free time playing vidyagames so you all are probably safe

    I wonder if Henry Cavill now plays Witcher 3 with the mod that makes Geralt look like Henry Cavill

    and the one that mutes geralt's VA so he can say all the lines instead

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  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    That is a bizarre mod. Geralt's VA work is great. Some people are so weird.

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  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    Just popped in to say the show is my first experience with the series but I went out and got the first two books (the short stories) and read them immediately. I prefer the show’s portrayal better so far: I enjoy the more serious tone. To each their own though, I understand it’s a matter of preference.

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  • SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    The weirdest overall decision to me for this season is the way they handle Ciri

    She ends up getting a lot more screentime than if they had followed the books, and yet a lot less characterization. She mostly just like, follows people around. She just seems like a very ordinary girl right now, which... Is gonna be tough for future seasons, because Ciri's a weird character. Like good, but she's like... Well, if she was any character from the Expanse, she'd be Amos.

    That whole last sequence was kind of weird beyond just Ciri
    Like in the show the guy that Geralt saves is Super Nice, he's like taking time to bury bodies of people he doesn't know. And his wife is also Super Duper Nice, to the point that it feels like she must actually be evil because nobody actually acts like that.

    The book version is just much better...
    The guy is just a merchant who's been on a long trade journey, and now he's almost home with all his profits for like 2 years of work. So when his cart breaks his assistants flee but he stays, and he makes a deal with Geralt to save him from the monsters about to attack. The whole point is that he's a merchant, seemingly motivated by greed, who'll die before he sees his profits disappear. It's not that dissimilar from other shady characters who've repeatedly tried to rip Geralt off in the past, and Geralt doesn't have a high opinion of him. And Geralt gets hurt in the fight and passes out... This ordinary merchant now doesn't need to pay, he can easily just leave Geralt to die. And instead he doesn't. He pays for medicine and a doctor, he looks after him, he helps nurse Geralt back to health. It's the much more normal characterization of finding out someone's just a decent guy who's going to do the right thing even though there's nothing in it for him. And I think it's a lot more powerful than the show version - obviously a saint will treat Geralt as a fellow human being, it means a lot more when it's coming from just a normal-ass regular dude who's just practicing common decency.

    Ah, agreed! I had only remembered his eventual kindness but now that you point it out I completely agree
    I also think it's weird as hell they had Geralt as old as he was when abandoned by his mother. Makes for melodrama I guess, but why would you raise a child through the most difficult periods and then decide far after that to give them up?

    It's not especially clear when Geralt was abandoned in the books, especially since he could have lost memories of his time pre Trial of the Grasses, but he doesn't remember his own name, much less his mother's, and has to get out of Vesimir

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    Kana
  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    Cavill is a situation where although I love his acting and how he inhabits the character, I have no urge to retroactively change the games for it

    I really like Alden Ehrenreich as Han Solo but I'm not pushing George Lucas to reshoot Ford's scenes in ANH

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  • MaydayMayday Cutting edge goblin tech Registered User regular
  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    I've nearly finished reading The Last Wish and I think it's better than the show. Show leaves a lot out and makes some changes I'm curious about the logic for

    A Matter of Price
    In the book it seems like Geralt knows/suspects Parvetta is pregnant and invokes the law of surprise with the intention of getting a kid out of it. But in the show it's all a big whoopsy. I guess they don't have time in the show to convey his logic behind it and not make him seem like a child snatching creep? But the book version is way more interesting.

    On the other hand I think I prefer show Calanthe to book Calanthe, from what I've seen so far.

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    SilverWind
  • SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    Ooh, I'm glad you're reading! Will you move on to Sword of Destiny?

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  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Yeah probably. I've already got Blood of Elves on my kindle but I gather I should get and read Sword of Destiny first? Do all the short stories take place prior to the novels?

  • MaydayMayday Cutting edge goblin tech Registered User regular
    Yeah probably. I've already got Blood of Elves on my kindle but I gather I should get and read Sword of Destiny first? Do all the short stories take place prior to the novels?

    Yes they do.

    SilverWindKana
  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Cool, I shall pick it up before I start Blood of Elves. Gonna have to buy it as my library system, which covers all the libraries in 3 counties, only has a single copy. Needless to say it is currently unavailable.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    I've nearly finished reading The Last Wish and I think it's better than the show. Show leaves a lot out and makes some changes I'm curious about the logic for

    A Matter of Price
    In the book it seems like Geralt knows/suspects Parvetta is pregnant and invokes the law of surprise with the intention of getting a kid out of it. But in the show it's all a big whoopsy. I guess they don't have time in the show to convey his logic behind it and not make him seem like a child snatching creep? But the book version is way more interesting.

    On the other hand I think I prefer show Calanthe to book Calanthe, from what I've seen so far.

    It’s likely the latter
    Geralt intending to claim a child by invoking the law of surprise turns him into a pretty horrible creep, and kind of taints his entire relationship with Ciri. Maybe the books tackle this, but the format of television episodes doesn’t really mesh well with diving into exactly how problematic that is, while still keeping the camera on Geralt.

  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    On the other hand
    I thought Geralt claiming the law of surprise and then apparently being, uh, surprised that he got a kid out of it, when that is the exact situation he'd just witnessed with Duny, just made him seem really dumb.

  • KarozKaroz Easy Breezy Registered User regular
    I thought it was so exceedingly unlikely and despite their love thinking that would be the outcome seemed really fitting?

    But eh I loved the season overall and have not read the books so may just be me.

  • SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    The books do make it clear
    TLW
    Geralt says he doesn't believe in destiny at the same time he sincerely hopes for it (he claims to be a pessimist/realist but he wavers and really, is way more emotional than he lets on). When he invokes the law thinks the surprise may be a child, and a lot more is developed of how the Child of Surprise is someone capable of and destined to do amazing things. There's a lot more talked about how witchers commonly make this demand since they can't reproduce and in A Matter of Price Mousessack identifies Geralt as a Child of Surprise too

    Sword of Destiny spoilers
    Of course, Sapkowski retcons/changes that in SOD and clarifies Geralt was abandoned by his mother. However, he then builds up the whole "witchers commonly ask for the Law of Surprise" thing since there's a belief this will result in the discovery of the strongest witcher of them all, who won't require the Trial of Grasses/mutations to become one of them COUGH IT'S CIRI

    Geralt wavers back and forth on hoping/believing and being a grumpy pessimist and it's fantastic

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Geralt's surprise child in the books:
    From what I remember in the books, it's very much Geralt delivering a major fuck you to Calanthe after getting jerked around like crazy that whole time. It's a bit of poetic revenge.

    But he mostly just wants to fuck with Calanthe, he doesn't have any real interest in collecting the debt. He's perfectly content riding away and like and indefinitely delaying collection of the debt.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    Oh, weird inconsistency within the show
    So uh since they make it clear that mages get hysterectomies during their enchantment (and Istredd throws this in Yen's face so I assume oddly the guys don't get the equivalent???) how the hell did Geralt's mom give birth to him

    In the books, again, it's simply the natural use of magic that renders someone infertile, and there are exceptions (usually to disastrous results)

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  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    SilverWind wrote: »
    Oh, weird inconsistency within the show
    So uh since they make it clear that mages get hysterectomies during their enchantment (and Istredd throws this in Yen's face so I assume oddly the guys don't get the equivalent???) how the hell did Geralt's mom give birth to him

    In the books, again, it's simply the natural use of magic that renders someone infertile, and there are exceptions (usually to disastrous results)
    I was under the impression she was a hedge witch, not a court mage

    So she wouldn't have gone through all that and it actually makes more sense?

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    On the other hand
    I thought Geralt claiming the law of surprise and then apparently being, uh, surprised that he got a kid out of it, when that is the exact situation he'd just witnessed with Duny, just made him seem really dumb.
    It just struck me as weird because a Witcher intentionally claiming a child through the Law of Surprise seems like something the old Witchers would have done, when they needed more children to throw into the grinder and torture via their mutation/initiation methods. Which Geralt definitely seems to resent having been done to him. So effectively stealing a child, when he himself was abandoned and forced into that life, doesn't seem like something he'd do consciously.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    I don't remember what the Witcher castle was named, I think it was something like Geralt Fort

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  • SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    SilverWind wrote: »
    Oh, weird inconsistency within the show
    So uh since they make it clear that mages get hysterectomies during their enchantment (and Istredd throws this in Yen's face so I assume oddly the guys don't get the equivalent???) how the hell did Geralt's mom give birth to him

    In the books, again, it's simply the natural use of magic that renders someone infertile, and there are exceptions (usually to disastrous results)
    I was under the impression she was a hedge witch, not a court mage

    So she wouldn't have gone through all that and it actually makes more sense?

    Hunh,
    I'd assumed most everyone in the North is Aretuza trained, but that may be because of the books

    That makes sense enough! Thank you

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  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    SilverWind wrote: »
    Oh, weird inconsistency within the show
    So uh since they make it clear that mages get hysterectomies during their enchantment (and Istredd throws this in Yen's face so I assume oddly the guys don't get the equivalent???) how the hell did Geralt's mom give birth to him

    In the books, again, it's simply the natural use of magic that renders someone infertile, and there are exceptions (usually to disastrous results)
    Actually that doesn't seem inconsistent at all? If the only reason they are infertile is by going through that particular process that means she could just have.. not gone through that process. It seems even more direct than in the books because that is actually an ongoing question people had about Geralts mom in the books that was never directly explained. And people had to dig up a few lines where it was offhandedly mentioned that there were some very rare exceptions to that rule to find the answer.

    desc wrote: »
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  • KarozKaroz Easy Breezy Registered User regular
  • WhiteZinfandelWhiteZinfandel Registered User regular
    I completed the Witcher 3 base game, including every side quest I could find and every point of interest on the maps. I didn't do any Gwent, but that's the only thing I skipped. It took me 87 hours.

    I have a complete set of the Venture Bros. Season 7 t-shirt club medium-size t-shirts for sale. PM me if you're interested.
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  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    Javen wrote: »
    On the other hand
    I thought Geralt claiming the law of surprise and then apparently being, uh, surprised that he got a kid out of it, when that is the exact situation he'd just witnessed with Duny, just made him seem really dumb.
    It just struck me as weird because a Witcher intentionally claiming a child through the Law of Surprise seems like something the old Witchers would have done, when they needed more children to throw into the grinder and torture via their mutation/initiation methods. Which Geralt definitely seems to resent having been done to him. So effectively stealing a child, when he himself was abandoned and forced into that life, doesn't seem like something he'd do consciously.

    I'm just literally going off what is in the book, not what I believe about Geralt's intentions
    "Duny," said Geralt seriously, "Calanthe, Parvetta. And you, righteous knight Tuirseach, future king of Cintra. In order to become a witcher, you have to be born in the shadow of destiny, and very few are born like that. That's why there are so few of us. We're growing old, dying, without anyone to pass our knowledge, our gifts, on to. We lack successors. And this world is full of Evil which waits for the day none of us are left."

    "Geralt," whispered Calanthe.

    "Yes, you're not wrong, queen. Duny! You will give me that which you already have but do not know. I'll return to Cintra in six years to see if destiny has been kind to me."

    "Pavetta," Duny opened his eyes wide. "Surely you're not-"

    "Pavetta!" Exclaimed Calanthe. "Are you... Are you-?"

    The princess lowered her eyes and blushed. Then replied.

    That seems pretty cut and dry to me.

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Gwent would be fine if it were speedier. M

  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Geralt's surprise child in the books:
    From what I remember in the books, it's very much Geralt delivering a major fuck you to Calanthe after getting jerked around like crazy that whole time. It's a bit of poetic revenge.

    But he mostly just wants to fuck with Calanthe, he doesn't have any real interest in collecting the debt. He's perfectly content riding away and like and indefinitely delaying collection of the debt.

    This is another interesting concept, and fits in with the idea that Geralt doesn't believe in destiny. But show Geralt definitely seems to think destiny is a whole big ol' thing.

  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Geralt's surprise child in the books:
    From what I remember in the books, it's very much Geralt delivering a major fuck you to Calanthe after getting jerked around like crazy that whole time. It's a bit of poetic revenge.

    But he mostly just wants to fuck with Calanthe, he doesn't have any real interest in collecting the debt. He's perfectly content riding away and like and indefinitely delaying collection of the debt.

    This is another interesting concept, and fits in with the idea that Geralt doesn't believe in destiny. But show Geralt definitely seems to think destiny is a whole big ol' thing.

    Show Geralt believes in destiny, but he definitely hates it.

    I approve of the departure from the books.

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  • GrogGrog My sword is only steel in a useful shape.Registered User regular
    That is a bizarre mod. Geralt's VA work is great. Some people are so weird.

    Agreed. I think it was made specifically for the doppler mod if you wanted to play as a lady.

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  • SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    Cavill's voice is tolerable but Cockle has a lot more nuance

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    Wyborn
  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    It's pretty impressive how much he manages to emote considering how monotone Geralt's voice is

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    I completed the Witcher 3 base game, including every side quest I could find and every point of interest on the maps. I didn't do any Gwent, but that's the only thing I skipped. It took me 87 hours.

    Uhhh gwent IS the base game

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  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    It's really safe (better, even) to skip the first game in a lot of ways, but one of my favorite moments in that whole trilogy is when Geralt's around a field hospital, monologuing about the sounds of dying plague victims and the doctors who are fighting against the inevitable, the culmination of many failures of the human condition

    Then he stops for a second and goes "Damn, I'm gloomy"

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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    Wyborn wrote: »
    It's really safe (better, even) to skip the first game in a lot of ways, but one of my favorite moments in that whole trilogy is when Geralt's around a field hospital, monologuing about the sounds of dying plague victims and the doctors who are fighting against the inevitable, the culmination of many failures of the human condition

    Then he stops for a second and goes "Damn, I'm gloomy"

    One of my favorite sequences from the books is a major battle sequence which is told mostly from the perspective of a battlefield hospital. They don't find out who actually won until the night after the battle, the entire struggle is them trying to maintain functionality in the face of human misery on an almost incomprehensible scale. Very reminiscent of like descriptions of civil war surgery tents. Sapkowski is eeextremely unenthused about the glories of war.

    Kana on
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  • Schmimpy Pim- no god what am I sayingSchmimpy Pim- no god what am I saying Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    Speaking of those hospital scenes, minorish spoilers,
    I remember the surgeon inspecting some dead guy and it turned out to be some witcher who was in the battle for some reason? Is that dude in a short story?

    Schmimpy Pim- no god what am I saying on
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    I completed the Witcher 3 base game, including every side quest I could find and every point of interest on the maps. I didn't do any Gwent, but that's the only thing I skipped. It took me 87 hours.

    That's impressive!

    I didn't get into Gwent, missed plenty of side quests and did not go out of my way to find every point of interest(probably didn't even get half the ones in the second location) and was still well over 100 hours.

    desc wrote: »
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