Technically, it's only even gambling because the secondary market exists. If every card was worth a fuckin' nickel, like Richard Garfield expected his goofy fantasy card game to end up being, I'm not sure there would be any issues. As it is, though, it's not even gambling, because you're getting something back for your return. Whether it meets colloquial definitions of gambling isn't relevant until the government(s) decide to step in and determine whether it is or isn't.
I used to play this game, for ante, as a kid. Is that gambling? It sure as shit taught me risk aversion and that I could build a deck with nothing but commons and uncommons.
That still has the same issue of knowing exactly how many of each card is available in the pool ahead of time. It also introduces the problem of needing to buy 540 to 720 cards worth of product in advance just to draft once. Granted, the return on investment improves with each subsequent draft, but then you need to do it again with each set.
Do what again each set? Buy 540-720 cards?
I'm not sure you know how most cubes work.
I know how they work. It is a good and fun format. What I was responding to was the original statement of "Wizards could sell cubes instead of boosters", which would imply no more boosters being sold and instead a new cube being released for each set. Which would be a horrible idea.
I mean it would be different. Right now the loot box aspects are baked in So deeply that it can’t really be any other way but you have to admit that for constructed players it sucks to buy boosters and also realize that buying boosters like that sucks from a consumer point of view.
MTG is a great game that hinges on predatory tactics to stay alive and I don’t like that one aspect of it.
"Different", in this case, means "completely eliminated". Also, most serious constructed players do not buy many boosters. They buy the cards that they need directly as singles. The change that you propose would do nothing to help them while completely eliminating several popular and engaging formats, such as booster draft and sealed. Again, Cube is not comparable to those other formats. It is a completely different experience. It's great that cube exists as a format, but it will never be a replacement for any of the other limited formats. It is its own thing. It's like saying Commander should be eliminated and everyone could play Highlander instead, which would be equally incomparable.
Replace booster boxes with cubes and sets with LCG expansion packs, IMHO. Here's a fun fact: Theros theme boosters have 40 cards of one color, and there are ~43 cards of each color in Theros. Hint, hint.
Limited only exists as a way to make the predatory booster packs less scummy, and you can make formats that don't rely on players gambling! You can keep it on Arena, I guess, but maybe don't make a format that makes players throw away dozens of pieces of worthless cardboard after every evening?
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21stCenturyCall me Pixel, or Pix for short![They/Them]Registered Userregular
That still has the same issue of knowing exactly how many of each card is available in the pool ahead of time. It also introduces the problem of needing to buy 540 to 720 cards worth of product in advance just to draft once. Granted, the return on investment improves with each subsequent draft, but then you need to do it again with each set.
Do what again each set? Buy 540-720 cards?
I'm not sure you know how most cubes work.
I know how they work. It is a good and fun format. What I was responding to was the original statement of "Wizards could sell cubes instead of boosters", which would imply no more boosters being sold and instead a new cube being released for each set. Which would be a horrible idea.
I mean it would be different. Right now the loot box aspects are baked in So deeply that it can’t really be any other way but you have to admit that for constructed players it sucks to buy boosters and also realize that buying boosters like that sucks from a consumer point of view.
MTG is a great game that hinges on predatory tactics to stay alive and I don’t like that one aspect of it.
"Different", in this case, means "completely eliminated". Also, most serious constructed players do not buy many boosters. They buy the cards that they need directly as singles. The change that you propose would do nothing to help them while completely eliminating several popular and engaging formats, such as booster draft and sealed. Again, Cube is not comparable to those other formats. It is a completely different experience. It's great that cube exists as a format, but it will never be a replacement for any of the other limited formats. It is its own thing. It's like saying Commander should be eliminated and everyone could play Highlander instead, which would be equally incomparable.
I meant the game as a whole would be different. Different doesn’t mean worse.
I also am neither demanding nor offering a solution here. I’m not stupid enough to think hasbro or wizards would be willing to turn down the predatory effects.
Lastly “smart players aren’t caught by this thanks to the secondary market” does not make the business model less predatory.
I’m sorry but the game we love is sold by people I would consider scummy. I don’t pretend I can change that but I’m not gonna pretend it’s for the best.
That still has the same issue of knowing exactly how many of each card is available in the pool ahead of time. It also introduces the problem of needing to buy 540 to 720 cards worth of product in advance just to draft once. Granted, the return on investment improves with each subsequent draft, but then you need to do it again with each set.
Do what again each set? Buy 540-720 cards?
I'm not sure you know how most cubes work.
I know how they work. It is a good and fun format. What I was responding to was the original statement of "Wizards could sell cubes instead of boosters", which would imply no more boosters being sold and instead a new cube being released for each set. Which would be a horrible idea.
I mean it would be different. Right now the loot box aspects are baked in So deeply that it can’t really be any other way but you have to admit that for constructed players it sucks to buy boosters and also realize that buying boosters like that sucks from a consumer point of view.
MTG is a great game that hinges on predatory tactics to stay alive and I don’t like that one aspect of it.
"Different", in this case, means "completely eliminated". Also, most serious constructed players do not buy many boosters. They buy the cards that they need directly as singles. The change that you propose would do nothing to help them while completely eliminating several popular and engaging formats, such as booster draft and sealed. Again, Cube is not comparable to those other formats. It is a completely different experience. It's great that cube exists as a format, but it will never be a replacement for any of the other limited formats. It is its own thing. It's like saying Commander should be eliminated and everyone could play Highlander instead, which would be equally incomparable.
I meant the game as a whole would be different. Different doesn’t mean worse.
In this case, yes, it would be worse.
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21stCenturyCall me Pixel, or Pix for short![They/Them]Registered Userregular
Yeah this doesn't feel like empowerment or support for IWD, it feels like they saw an opportunity for a cash grab. It doesn't seem genuine.
Or maybe that's an uncharitable read?
I ultimately feel neutral about it. It's definitely just corporate "charity" and they should charge $40 for it and still make the $25 donation, but they also made some interesting card choices and followed through on the theme by having all the artists also be women.
It's also telling that they created a new Twitter account just for Secret Lair, inthink that implies we will be getting A LOT of them going forward.
Almost certainly saving her for an LGBTQ observance. Maybe with Ashiok, Oyiva, and the 4-color Greek Dads.
Don't forget Ral and Tomik
I didn't but I wasn't sure if they'd be willing to spend two cards in the set with them. Because you would have to, right? They wouldn't have one without the other at this point?
KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
I haven't been following these sets closely so I don't know WotC's rules about how big they can be. I'd kinda hope they'd put them in tho, IIRC they're the only established LGBT couple that each has their own card.
I haven't been following these sets closely so I don't know WotC's rules about how big they can be. I'd kinda hope they'd put them in tho, IIRC they're the only established LGBT couple that each has their own card.
I just pictured them as a panoramic two-piece and think I talked myself into it.
I don't think any of these have had more than 5 cards? Maybe the cats had 7?
I appreciate the riff-ey naming convention but I'm not sure that forecast is salvagable even with the ability to hold up mana for it. Also, cards probably wouldn't refer to the active player, and a 2/2 for 1 mana is above rate for black.
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I ate an engineer
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I appreciate the riff-ey naming convention but I'm not sure that forecast is salvagable even with the ability to hold up mana for it. Also, cards probably wouldn't refer to the active player, and a 2/2 for 1 mana is above rate for black.
Folly is definitely just a joke card, but it's also interesting you say that since if you ask me for a 1 mana 2/2 I'd immediately name Diregraf Ghoul. (I think about zombies more than burn :P)
Vampire Lacerator is apparently another modern-legal 2/2 for B, too.
Edit: The active player thing is sticky, but in the already-annoying case of someone casting this in commander on two different player's end-steps it'd feel weird to have it be target player so you could hit the same person twice.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I appreciate the riff-ey naming convention but I'm not sure that forecast is salvagable even with the ability to hold up mana for it. Also, cards probably wouldn't refer to the active player, and a 2/2 for 1 mana is above rate for black.
Folly is definitely just a joke card, but it's also interesting you say that since if you ask me for a 1 mana 2/2 I'd immediately name Diregraf Ghoul. (I think about zombies more than burn :P)
Vampire Lacerator is apparently another modern-legal 2/2 for B, too.
Edit: The active player thing is sticky, but in the already-annoying case of someone casting this in commander on two different player's end-steps it'd feel weird to have it be target player so you could hit the same person twice.
"Target player's endstep"
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I appreciate the riff-ey naming convention but I'm not sure that forecast is salvagable even with the ability to hold up mana for it. Also, cards probably wouldn't refer to the active player, and a 2/2 for 1 mana is above rate for black.
Folly is definitely just a joke card, but it's also interesting you say that since if you ask me for a 1 mana 2/2 I'd immediately name Diregraf Ghoul. (I think about zombies more than burn :P)
Vampire Lacerator is apparently another modern-legal 2/2 for B, too.
2/2s for 1 pretty much never come down without a downside, though, and I'm counting Icehide Golem's snow mana and Isamaru being Legendary as downsides. Diregraf Ghoul is tapped, Vampire Lacerator is a modern take on Carnophage, Death's Shadow is nominally a -7/-7, and so on.
Even going beyond that, Black isn't really the color of nonconditional instant creature tokens for 1 mana? Usually they have to exile a creature card in a graveyard (which generally gets a 2/2 zombie), get it as a bonus for destroying a creature, or rely on creatures dying like Spoils of Blood (X/X Horror where X is the number of critters that died that turn).
Even at sorcery speed, the best you get is generally 2B or 1BB for a 2/2 Zombie.
You can get better rates with Enchantments, but generally those are of the "deal with the devil" type. Bitterblossom is going to do 1 damage to you forever whether you want it to or not, Sarcomancy's going to get you a 2/2 zombie for B but once the zombies are gone it's gonna ping you every upkeep forever, etc. etc.
2/2s for 1 pretty much never come down without a downside, though, and I'm counting Icehide Golem's snow mana and Isamaru being Legendary as downsides. Diregraf Ghoul is tapped, Vampire Lacerator is a modern take on Carnophage, Death's Shadow is nominally a -7/-7, and so on.
Even going beyond that, Black isn't really the color of nonconditional instant creature tokens for 1 mana? Usually they have to exile a creature card in a graveyard (which generally gets a 2/2 zombie), get it as a bonus for destroying a creature, or rely on creatures dying like Spoils of Blood (X/X Horror where X is the number of critters that died that turn).
Even at sorcery speed, the best you get is generally 2B or 1BB for a 2/2 Zombie.
You can get better rates with Enchantments, but generally those are of the "deal with the devil" type. Bitterblossom is going to do 1 damage to you forever whether you want it to or not, Sarcomancy's going to get you a 2/2 zombie for B but once the zombies are gone it's gonna ping you every upkeep forever, etc. etc.
It's sorcery speed fwiw, though a vanilla 2/2 for 2 with the marginalest of upside is still pushed
Being all creature types is not marginal at all. It's a vampire, a zombie, a knight, a human and a spirit. I could further list tribal synergies outside of Pioneer!
I was getting pretty beat down by a token deck running divine visitation. I had a couple zombies from liliana on the board. My opponent almost had lethal in the air. I dropped kiora bests the sea God. My opponent focused on liliana because I had he ultimate the next turn. She went to the graveyard. I had another one in hand though. Also an ashiok. I dropped the liliana. Then the ashiok. Destroyed one of their angels. Snagged divine visitation with kiora and then from there started pumping my own angel army out. Used lilianas ultimate then crip walked out the building with my 5 health.
Felt good. Also I really like a starting hand that's full of hand hate. See a lot of scoops on my third thought erasure lol.
New Secret Lair, comes with a foil playset of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben each with different, new artwork for $30. Goes live on the 12th of March.
Also 25 more cards being added to Historic on Arena on the 12th, Thalia is one of them. Other highlights (IMO) are Maelstrom Pulse, Pack Rat, Meddling Mage, Ghost Quarter, Knight of the Reliquary, Sigil of the Empty Throne, Ranger of Eos, and Platinum Angel. Honestly all 25 are pretty solid this time around, if the rest aren't as splashy. More Historic info coming March 5 in the State of the Game update.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
nice thalia art, esp on the las tone
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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I’m not saying people who enjoy gambling are wrong but pushing gambling on to minors is shit imo.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
I used to play this game, for ante, as a kid. Is that gambling? It sure as shit taught me risk aversion and that I could build a deck with nothing but commons and uncommons.
Like, lootboxes are 100% obviously predatory as implemented and I don't need a Republican congress to pass a law telling me that.
"Different", in this case, means "completely eliminated". Also, most serious constructed players do not buy many boosters. They buy the cards that they need directly as singles. The change that you propose would do nothing to help them while completely eliminating several popular and engaging formats, such as booster draft and sealed. Again, Cube is not comparable to those other formats. It is a completely different experience. It's great that cube exists as a format, but it will never be a replacement for any of the other limited formats. It is its own thing. It's like saying Commander should be eliminated and everyone could play Highlander instead, which would be equally incomparable.
Limited only exists as a way to make the predatory booster packs less scummy, and you can make formats that don't rely on players gambling! You can keep it on Arena, I guess, but maybe don't make a format that makes players throw away dozens of pieces of worthless cardboard after every evening?
I meant the game as a whole would be different. Different doesn’t mean worse.
I also am neither demanding nor offering a solution here. I’m not stupid enough to think hasbro or wizards would be willing to turn down the predatory effects.
Lastly “smart players aren’t caught by this thanks to the secondary market” does not make the business model less predatory.
I’m sorry but the game we love is sold by people I would consider scummy. I don’t pretend I can change that but I’m not gonna pretend it’s for the best.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
In this case, yes, it would be worse.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
classy
Or maybe that's an uncharitable read?
I ultimately feel neutral about it. It's definitely just corporate "charity" and they should charge $40 for it and still make the $25 donation, but they also made some interesting card choices and followed through on the theme by having all the artists also be women.
It's also telling that they created a new Twitter account just for Secret Lair, inthink that implies we will be getting A LOT of them going forward.
I was just thinking this
Almost certainly saving her for an LGBTQ observance. Maybe with Ashiok, Oyiva, and the 4-color Greek Dads.
I would like them to tell terfs to go fuck themselves
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
Don't forget Ral and Tomik
I didn't but I wasn't sure if they'd be willing to spend two cards in the set with them. Because you would have to, right? They wouldn't have one without the other at this point?
I just pictured them as a panoramic two-piece and think I talked myself into it.
I don't think any of these have had more than 5 cards? Maybe the cats had 7?
Clearly we need a card that can be cast for an absurd hindsight cost to create a 20/20 token.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
Folly is definitely just a joke card, but it's also interesting you say that since if you ask me for a 1 mana 2/2 I'd immediately name Diregraf Ghoul. (I think about zombies more than burn :P)
Vampire Lacerator is apparently another modern-legal 2/2 for B, too.
Edit: The active player thing is sticky, but in the already-annoying case of someone casting this in commander on two different player's end-steps it'd feel weird to have it be target player so you could hit the same person twice.
"Target player's endstep"
Yes but those creatures both have drawbacks.
Even going beyond that, Black isn't really the color of nonconditional instant creature tokens for 1 mana? Usually they have to exile a creature card in a graveyard (which generally gets a 2/2 zombie), get it as a bonus for destroying a creature, or rely on creatures dying like Spoils of Blood (X/X Horror where X is the number of critters that died that turn).
Even at sorcery speed, the best you get is generally 2B or 1BB for a 2/2 Zombie.
You can get better rates with Enchantments, but generally those are of the "deal with the devil" type. Bitterblossom is going to do 1 damage to you forever whether you want it to or not, Sarcomancy's going to get you a 2/2 zombie for B but once the zombies are gone it's gonna ping you every upkeep forever, etc. etc.
It's sorcery speed fwiw, though a vanilla 2/2 for 2 with the marginalest of upside is still pushed
Felt good. Also I really like a starting hand that's full of hand hate. See a lot of scoops on my third thought erasure lol.
Also 25 more cards being added to Historic on Arena on the 12th, Thalia is one of them. Other highlights (IMO) are Maelstrom Pulse, Pack Rat, Meddling Mage, Ghost Quarter, Knight of the Reliquary, Sigil of the Empty Throne, Ranger of Eos, and Platinum Angel. Honestly all 25 are pretty solid this time around, if the rest aren't as splashy. More Historic info coming March 5 in the State of the Game update.