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[Impeachment] Public Hearings of Amb. Sondland, "Yes there was Quid Pro Quo" [2019/11/20]

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Posts

  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Tumin wrote: »
    SeñorAmor wrote: »
    Schiff tells Gaetz to get fucked using my most favorite new term.

    "Absent yourself, King Dumbass."

    Also, an excellent response to "Oh, so you're going to have someone remove me?" is "No, you're going to remove yourself."

    Eat a dick, bro.


    From the Fiona Hill testimony:
    Rep. Adam Schiff tells Matt Gaetz to "absent yourself."

    I think that's going to be my NEW way of telling someone GTFOH.

    "Absent yourself" is 🔥.

    Was he removed, though (willingly or otherwise)?

    Yes, Schiff states later that the record shall reflect Gaetz is no longer present

    I wonder if Gaetz was literally no longer present, or if Schiff as head, declares him no longer present and the other members and stenographer and such just kinda pretend he isn’t there like a Congressional version of the Pretend They’re Invisible game that children play and carry on until he actually leaves?

    Probably the former but the latter makes me chuckle more.

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  • knitdanknitdan Oh no Too much hornyRegistered User regular
    I think my favorite part of that exchange is Jim Jordan trying to dictate that Gaetz can stay and Schiff just ignoring him.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    So apparently Adam Schiff's background has two notable details in light of the impeachment hearings.

    https://www.npr.org/2019/10/10/768048653/adam-schiff-the-surprising-face-of-the-impeachment-inquiry-of-president-trump
    1. A political career spurred on by ... impeachment

    His congressional district, California's 28th, includes Hollywood. It's heavily liberal — Hillary Clinton won 72% here in 2016. But it wasn't always so pro-Democratic. In fact, Schiff got into Congress, ironically, by defeating a Republican, Jim Rogan, who was a staunch critic of Bill Clinton and spoke out against Clinton during his impeachment.

    Schiff was able to leverage Clinton's impeachment for his gain, as Clinton friend and entertainment mogul David Geffen promised to help raise millions to unseat Rogan. He got help from movie director Steven Spielberg and Jeffrey Katzenberg, former chairman of Disney Studios. At the same time, Disney Chairman and CEO Michael Eisner took Rogan's side. The result? The 2000 race became the most expensive in history, at that time, with more than $10 million raised between the two. Schiff won 53%-44%, and has since not gotten less than 63% of the vote.
    3. He prosecuted an FBI agent for taking bribes from Russians

    Before running for elected office, Schiff worked in the U.S. attorney's office in Los Angeles in the late 1980s and early 1990s. His most famous case was the first-ever conviction of an FBI agent for espionage. The agent had been taking bribes from Russians. It took three trials over six years to secure the conviction.

    "I do feel like in some ways my life has come full circle," Schiff told the Los Angeles Daily News with a laugh last week, thinking about his work today on the Intelligence Committee.

    Schiff then ran for office, but lost three times for state Assembly before eventually winning a state Senate seat and then Congress.

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    I'm wondering who these clowns are going to kick off the committee in order to sit new people. Pretty sure Schiff is going to tell them to get bent, if they try sitting new members without removing someone. Also wonder how many more times these clowns will whine about BS, while not actually attending or paying attending to what's going on. I do hope they end up eating a ton of shit for that; especially, since they aren't going to be able to claim they were doing anything productive.

    Ticaldfjam
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    I'm wondering who these clowns are going to kick off the committee in order to sit new people. Pretty sure Schiff is going to tell them to get bent, if they try sitting new members without removing someone. Also wonder how many more times these clowns will whine about BS, while not actually attending or paying attending to what's going on. I do hope they end up eating a ton of shit for that; especially, since they aren't going to be able to claim they were doing anything productive.

    I wouldn't be surprised if you actually had the opposite situation, where there were members who didn't want to be on that committee anymore since it puts more pressure on them to defend Trump.

    Xantomas
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    The Democrats should just subpoena one of the people who was there during the Mulvaney press conference where he bragged about quid quo pro and simply ask him what he heard Mulvaney said that day, as a super trollish way to get Mulvaney's words on the record.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    I'm wondering who these clowns are going to kick off the committee in order to sit new people. Pretty sure Schiff is going to tell them to get bent, if they try sitting new members without removing someone. Also wonder how many more times these clowns will whine about BS, while not actually attending or paying attending to what's going on. I do hope they end up eating a ton of shit for that; especially, since they aren't going to be able to claim they were doing anything productive.

    I wouldn't be surprised if you actually had the opposite situation, where there were members who didn't want to be on that committee anymore since it puts more pressure on them to defend Trump.

    Pretty sure the minority party cannot just add people without removing anybody.

    Heir
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    edited November 9
    Mill wrote: »
    I'm wondering who these clowns are going to kick off the committee in order to sit new people. Pretty sure Schiff is going to tell them to get bent, if they try sitting new members without removing someone. Also wonder how many more times these clowns will whine about BS, while not actually attending or paying attending to what's going on. I do hope they end up eating a ton of shit for that; especially, since they aren't going to be able to claim they were doing anything productive.

    I wouldn't be surprised if you actually had the opposite situation, where there were members who didn't want to be on that committee anymore since it puts more pressure on them to defend Trump.

    Pretty sure the minority party cannot just add people without removing anybody.

    And I don't think that's going to be an issue, because being a republican on the committee right now is basically the equivalent of serving as Trump's legal team. Which people willingly quit all the time.

    There's a reason most of the GOP on the committee didn't bother to show.

    Schrodinger on
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    2 GOP committee members are retiring at Th e end of the term so presumably those 2

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    I'm wondering who these clowns are going to kick off the committee in order to sit new people. Pretty sure Schiff is going to tell them to get bent, if they try sitting new members without removing someone. Also wonder how many more times these clowns will whine about BS, while not actually attending or paying attending to what's going on. I do hope they end up eating a ton of shit for that; especially, since they aren't going to be able to claim they were doing anything productive.

    I wouldn't be surprised if you actually had the opposite situation, where there were members who didn't want to be on that committee anymore since it puts more pressure on them to defend Trump.

    Pretty sure the minority party cannot just add people without removing anybody.

    that's correct, the committee size is set by the the House majority.

    HefflingRchanenElvenshaeN1tSt4lker
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    So, it appears the whistleblower has been outed by the right wing wankery machine.

    Only no, it was the wrong guy. How do we know it was the wrong guy? Because he was an Obama staffer that left the White House when Obama did.

    Has he been receiving death threats, and threats of bodily harm? Of course he has.


    "Former Obama staffer R. David Edelman woke up Thursday to a bizarre new reality: Many on the pro-Trump internet were convinced — wrongly — he was the anonymous whistleblower at the heart of the impeachment probe.

    And then the death threats started."
    - Tim O'Brien is a Bloomberg editor, and well credentialed, tweeting a story by Will Sommer, a reporter for the Daily Beast.

    And people are surprised the whistleblower doesn't want their identity revealed, when this, a fake revelation, had the exact response from the MAGAts that anyone and everyone expected. It's the least surprising outcome to an event I could have ever fucking imagined. Sun rises in the east is less unlikely than red hats threaten someone outed as whistleblower to their "dear leader".

    shrykeToxDarkPrimusLocal H JayRchanenElvenshaeMetzger MeisterYoutubedispatch.oMild ConfusiondavidsdurionskimeJaysonFourTNTroopermonikerRaijuIncenjucarA Kobold's KoboldFencingsaxLord_AsmodeusRickRudeBrodyCalicadurandal4532ArdolMoridin889GONG-00ElldrenboogedybooMillZilla360AbsoluteZeroMan in the MistsCantideelectricitylikesmevalhalla130BullheadForarjdarksunTofystedethNiryaShadowfireSorceSanguinius666264MvrcklonelyahavaLovelyLegacyNo-QuarterZonugalN1tSt4lkerKoopahTroopahMazzyxFawstMcFodderLabelTheDrifterHefflingThawmusLeeksStabbity Style38thDoeemp123Janson
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    edited November 9
    The whistleblower is the least of Trump’s problems now.

    joshofalltrades on
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    青!
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  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    The whistleblower is the least of Trump’s problems now.

    Yes, but he is absolutely fixated on them as "the person who did this to me."

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Doc wrote: »
    The whistleblower is the least of Trump’s problems now.

    Yes, but he is absolutely fixated on them as "the person who did this to me."

    And that means his rabid fanbase are as well, and as has been shown in the past, he at best has no concern for his words and actions, and at worst, is actively engaging in "meddlesome priest" to it's conclusion.

    ElvenshaeJaysonFourTicaldfjamRaijuIncenjucarFencingsaxYoutubeCommander ZoomNobeardpainfulPleasanceArdolMrVyngaardGONG-00Man in the Mistselectricitylikesmevalhalla130Emerlmaster999jdarksunLegacyNo-QuarterZonugalGnome-InterruptusN1tSt4lkerLabelTheDrifter
  • Johnny ChopsockyJohnny Chopsocky Scootaloo! We have to cook! Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    So, it appears the whistleblower has been outed by the right wing wankery machine.

    Only no, it was the wrong guy. How do we know it was the wrong guy? Because he was an Obama staffer that left the White House when Obama did.

    Has he been receiving death threats, and threats of bodily harm? Of course he has.


    "Former Obama staffer R. David Edelman woke up Thursday to a bizarre new reality: Many on the pro-Trump internet were convinced — wrongly — he was the anonymous whistleblower at the heart of the impeachment probe.

    And then the death threats started."
    - Tim O'Brien is a Bloomberg editor, and well credentialed, tweeting a story by Will Sommer, a reporter for the Daily Beast.

    And people are surprised the whistleblower doesn't want their identity revealed, when this, a fake revelation, had the exact response from the MAGAts that anyone and everyone expected. It's the least surprising outcome to an event I could have ever fucking imagined. Sun rises in the east is less unlikely than red hats threaten someone outed as whistleblower to their "dear leader".

    Why, oh fucking why, is Dean Cain aka Worst Superman somehow a part of trying to get a whistleblower murdered?

    God this fucking stupid-ass year

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    You can see why the real whistleblower is being extremely cautious to hide his identity.

    ElvenshaemrpakuMild ConfusionkimeJaysonFourRMS OceanicmonikerA Kobold's KoboldFencingsaxYoutubeCommander Zoomdispatch.oRchanenNobeardpainfulPleasanceSkeithKristmas KthulhuSpoitArdolMoridin889MrVyngaardGONG-00Rhesus PositiveElldrenboogedybooMillZilla360Man in the MistsCantidevalhalla130DarkPrimusEmerlmaster999jdarksunTofystedethRaijuSleepNiryaSorceSanguinius666264AimMvrcklonelyahavaLegacyNo-QuarterGennenalyse RuebenZonugalKoopahTroopahMazzyxFawstMr RayLabelTheDrifterThawmusLeeksStabbity Style38thDoeemp123
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    MorganV wrote: »
    So, it appears the whistleblower has been outed by the right wing wankery machine.

    Only no, it was the wrong guy. How do we know it was the wrong guy? Because he was an Obama staffer that left the White House when Obama did.

    Has he been receiving death threats, and threats of bodily harm? Of course he has.


    "Former Obama staffer R. David Edelman woke up Thursday to a bizarre new reality: Many on the pro-Trump internet were convinced — wrongly — he was the anonymous whistleblower at the heart of the impeachment probe.

    And then the death threats started."
    - Tim O'Brien is a Bloomberg editor, and well credentialed, tweeting a story by Will Sommer, a reporter for the Daily Beast.

    And people are surprised the whistleblower doesn't want their identity revealed, when this, a fake revelation, had the exact response from the MAGAts that anyone and everyone expected. It's the least surprising outcome to an event I could have ever fucking imagined. Sun rises in the east is less unlikely than red hats threaten someone outed as whistleblower to their "dear leader".

    Why, oh fucking why, is Dean Cain aka Worst Superman somehow a part of trying to get a whistleblower murdered?

    God this fucking stupid-ass year

    Because he's a total wing nut maga guy

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    edited November 9
    MorganV wrote: »
    So, it appears the whistleblower has been outed by the right wing wankery machine.

    Only no, it was the wrong guy. How do we know it was the wrong guy? Because he was an Obama staffer that left the White House when Obama did.

    Has he been receiving death threats, and threats of bodily harm? Of course he has.


    "Former Obama staffer R. David Edelman woke up Thursday to a bizarre new reality: Many on the pro-Trump internet were convinced — wrongly — he was the anonymous whistleblower at the heart of the impeachment probe.

    And then the death threats started."
    - Tim O'Brien is a Bloomberg editor, and well credentialed, tweeting a story by Will Sommer, a reporter for the Daily Beast.

    And people are surprised the whistleblower doesn't want their identity revealed, when this, a fake revelation, had the exact response from the MAGAts that anyone and everyone expected. It's the least surprising outcome to an event I could have ever fucking imagined. Sun rises in the east is less unlikely than red hats threaten someone outed as whistleblower to their "dear leader".

    Why, oh fucking why, is Dean Cain aka Worst Superman somehow a part of trying to get a whistleblower murdered?

    God this fucking stupid-ass year

    You'd think he of all people would understand the need for a secret identity to protect yourself and loved ones from reprisals just for doing the right thing standing for Truth, Justice and The American Way.

    klemming on
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  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    So, it appears the whistleblower has been outed by the right wing wankery machine.

    Only no, it was the wrong guy. How do we know it was the wrong guy? Because he was an Obama staffer that left the White House when Obama did.

    Has he been receiving death threats, and threats of bodily harm? Of course he has.


    "Former Obama staffer R. David Edelman woke up Thursday to a bizarre new reality: Many on the pro-Trump internet were convinced — wrongly — he was the anonymous whistleblower at the heart of the impeachment probe.

    And then the death threats started."
    - Tim O'Brien is a Bloomberg editor, and well credentialed, tweeting a story by Will Sommer, a reporter for the Daily Beast.

    And people are surprised the whistleblower doesn't want their identity revealed, when this, a fake revelation, had the exact response from the MAGAts that anyone and everyone expected. It's the least surprising outcome to an event I could have ever fucking imagined. Sun rises in the east is less unlikely than red hats threaten someone outed as whistleblower to their "dear leader".

    Why, oh fucking why, is Dean Cain aka Worst Superman somehow a part of trying to get a whistleblower murdered?

    God this fucking stupid-ass year

    Because he's a total wing nut maga guy

    to be fair, he has since deleted that tweet and tried to stop what he started. Of course that's not really possible, given the internet.

    thatassemblyguyBlackDragon480LegacyN1tSt4lker
  • Twenty SidedTwenty Sided Registered User regular
    edited November 9
    klemming wrote: »
    MorganV wrote: »
    So, it appears the whistleblower has been outed by the right wing wankery machine.

    Only no, it was the wrong guy. How do we know it was the wrong guy? Because he was an Obama staffer that left the White House when Obama did.

    Has he been receiving death threats, and threats of bodily harm? Of course he has.


    "Former Obama staffer R. David Edelman woke up Thursday to a bizarre new reality: Many on the pro-Trump internet were convinced — wrongly — he was the anonymous whistleblower at the heart of the impeachment probe.

    And then the death threats started."
    - Tim O'Brien is a Bloomberg editor, and well credentialed, tweeting a story by Will Sommer, a reporter for the Daily Beast.

    And people are surprised the whistleblower doesn't want their identity revealed, when this, a fake revelation, had the exact response from the MAGAts that anyone and everyone expected. It's the least surprising outcome to an event I could have ever fucking imagined. Sun rises in the east is less unlikely than red hats threaten someone outed as whistleblower to their "dear leader".

    Why, oh fucking why, is Dean Cain aka Worst Superman somehow a part of trying to get a whistleblower murdered?

    God this fucking stupid-ass year

    You'd think he of all people would understand the need for a secret identity to protect yourself and loved ones from reprisals just for doing the right thing standing for Truth, Justice and The American Way.

    It's only okay when the strong do it.

    On a more serious note, I'm starting to be concerned about what the MAGA guntoters will do if Trump loses the election. This is one of those life lessons I've learned in the past decade or so. People are usually honest about what they are and you should probably take them at their word.

    Heather Heyer was hit by a car. Maybe it'll be small baby steps. Insofar as extrajudicial killings can ever be baby steps.
    And then I'm worried about the precedent that will set.

    Twenty Sided on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    GOP witness list is basically "we want to smear Hunter Biden."

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited November 9
    The reaction of Trump supporters if he loses the election is not on topic.

    ElJeffe on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 9
    Much of the aid was released earlier than previously reported because the State Department realized withholding it was illegal as heck.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-09/state-department-freed-ukraine-money-before-trump-says-he-did
    President Donald Trump says he lifted his freeze on aid to Ukraine on Sept. 11, but the State Department had quietly authorized releasing $141 million of the money several days earlier, according to five people familiar with the matter.

    The State Department decision, which hasn’t been reported previously, stemmed from a legal finding made earlier in the year, and conveyed in a classified memorandum to Secretary of State Michael Pompeo. State Department lawyers found the White House Office of Management and Budget, and thus the president, had no legal standing to block spending of the Ukraine aid.
    So the State Department agrees that just withholding the aid was illegal.

    Couscous on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Can someone explain what Trump means by "part of the list" here?
    I recommend that Nervous Nancy Pelosi (who backed up Schiff’s lie), Shifty Adam Schiff, Sleepy Joe Biden, the Whistleblower (who miraculously disappeared after I released the transcript of the call), the 2nd Whistleblower (who also disappeared), & the I.G., be part of the list!

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The GOP witness list.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited November 9
    The IG is the only person mentioned who is a relevant witness, and maybe not even

    Edit: actually no, none of them are relevant

    Captain Inertia on
    Heir
  • bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    God the 4th grade fucking namecalling of his opponents is driving me insane.

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    bwanie wrote: »
    God the 4th grade fucking namecalling of his opponents is driving me insane.

    If only our mods could apply the nickname rule to him

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  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Registered User regular
    The list Trump is referring to is the Republicans list of requested witnesses for the hearings. You may or may not be surprised to learn that their choices are mostly bullshit:v



    Politico Reporter. And Schiff's "cut the bullshit" response:

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    edited November 9
    I mean FFS. “Let’s do approximately what the president did that is getting him impeached now!”

    Idiots.

    joshofalltrades on
    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
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  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    bwanie wrote: »
    God the 4th grade fucking namecalling of his opponents is driving me insane.

    At the point where he's trying to jam 3 of them into a single tweet the effect is kind of lost.

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  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    I mean FFS. “Let’s do approximately what the president did that is getting him impeached now!”

    Idiots.

    I mean, it's no surprise. They know there's absolutely no way they can argue that Trump didn't do the crime, so they're attempting a Chewbacca defense where they muddy the waters by trying to turn it into an investigation of Hunter Biden. They're playing to voters who already want to believe it anyways.

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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    bwanie wrote: »
    God the 4th grade fucking namecalling of his opponents is driving me insane.

    I think that's how he remembers them. It's a mnemonic device.

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    That the republicans use the “democrat party” bullshit in formal documents shows how fucking stupid they’ve become. These idiots 100% drank the koolaid

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  • Twenty SidedTwenty Sided Registered User regular
    That the republicans use the “democrat party” bullshit in formal documents shows how fucking stupid they’ve become. These idiots 100% drank the koolaid

    I uhh. I'm afraid I don't catch the implication of using that term versus the other.

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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited November 9
    That the republicans use the “democrat party” bullshit in formal documents shows how fucking stupid they’ve become. These idiots 100% drank the koolaid

    Everyone calls them the Democrats. It's how every party with that name uses it as a noun (Lib Dems are the Liberal Democrats). Probably just in the style guide now rather than being a knowing diss.

    Tastyfish on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    That the republicans use the “democrat party” bullshit in formal documents shows how fucking stupid they’ve become. These idiots 100% drank the koolaid

    I uhh. I'm afraid I don't catch the implication of using that term versus the other.

    The "Democrat Party" is a Limbaugh slur. The name is the "Democratic Party" because that is how English works. It's meant to convey the word "rat."

    The plural is in fact "Democrats." But the adjective is Democratic.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    It’s a good short hand

    Anyone who calls them the Democrat party is an idiot not worth listening to

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  • Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    That the republicans use the “democrat party” bullshit in formal documents shows how fucking stupid they’ve become. These idiots 100% drank the koolaid

    We may find it frustratingly anti-intellectual, and I know I do, but the underlying truth to this and Lindsey Graham's performance on Fox news over Sondland show that there's a different process going on.

    Fascist ideology requires boogeymen. Often longstanding, sometimes convenient, and in many cases foreign. This is an aspect this board has analyzed in the past. However, I feel that in the face of the impeachment hearings in the house we have turned an important corner. At least the GOP as a group has turned an important corner. We've couched it before in mockery of how Trump turns anyone who has become a turncoat into a coffee-boy. Or the lowering of importance of that person like a line from an algebra equation. This is to be expected in any such criminal enterprise and has been seen plenty of times before in politics. Such as how former LCol. Oliver North went from a highly trusted person to a scummy lackey in the course of the Tower Commission investigation. The difference we're seeing here is that Sondland isn't getting that same projected reduction in placement but being actively turned out. Graham's language betrays him in this. It also provide the reason why the Senate has held firm thus far. We can discuss who might have compromising information about certain people in the Senate, but the present issue isn't one of political corruption. We are facing a different sort of political crisis.

    As has been pointed out before in this and previous threads about Trump and the GOP, they've collectively taken off the mask of political respectability and of ideological consistency. They are full on playing calvinball with the law and government. The long and short of the reason behind this is as simple as avarice and lust for power. The people who are backing them are the money makers & power players in several spheres; Tech, Wall Street, Media, and so forth. Robber barons of the 20th and 21st centuries. Trump himself imagines to be among their kind or their betters despite being turned out by their sort his entire life. And here we have the four players in our formal game, each occupying one corner in the dilemma, and each holding certain cards that can either frustrate the other or can exalt them. What has happened is that Trump or someone near Trump has called for a rule that requires everyone to play with their cards face up for the group to see.

    In Trump's corner he holds cards which can destroy any defector with the bully pulpit he occupies. That same place allows him to pass gifts of money and fortune to those who perform his kabuki well. In the Media/Tech/Wall Street corner. It's sometimes occupied by Fox News, sometimes occupied by CNN, or Facebook, or Twitter. And always, always occupied by Wall Street. These entities holds cards which can win voters over but only if you cooperate with Trump. In another are the Senators such as Graham who hold the ability to defect and leave the game or if they want the money and power which comes with office, they must keep cooperating. In the fourth and final place are us, the public. We have no cards but the vote. We can't leave the game, we can't win through defect or cooperation. We can only keep playing the one card granted to us.

    So what must Graham do to survive? Defect or cooperate? There are no guarantees in Defection, only the fight from further right and the lack of riches to use to get votes. To cooperate is to keep playing, to remain in the game.

    Which is what he does. He wants to keep playing calvinball with the rest of the GOP because he feels there's not another choice. I don't feel that even if one or two senators were to defect that the rest would go with them. It would require a large enough group, say ten or twelve of them, to make a real impact on the game being played against Trump. They all see he has the most powerful of cards. The ones which unlock the wealth needed to win the voters over. As long as he holds that *ahem* trump card, they won't move.

    I'm not suggesting that all is lost or any such dire forecast. This is an analysis of the situation that's been going through my head for a few days now. It feels good to get it out.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    That the republicans use the “democrat party” bullshit in formal documents shows how fucking stupid they’ve become. These idiots 100% drank the koolaid

    We may find it frustratingly anti-intellectual, and I know I do, but the underlying truth to this and Lindsey Graham's performance on Fox news over Sondland show that there's a different process going on.

    Fascist ideology requires boogeymen. Often longstanding, sometimes convenient, and in many cases foreign. This is an aspect this board has analyzed in the past. However, I feel that in the face of the impeachment hearings in the house we have turned an important corner. At least the GOP as a group has turned an important corner. We've couched it before in mockery of how Trump turns anyone who has become a turncoat into a coffee-boy. Or the lowering of importance of that person like a line from an algebra equation. This is to be expected in any such criminal enterprise and has been seen plenty of times before in politics. Such as how former LCol. Oliver North went from a highly trusted person to a scummy lackey in the course of the Tower Commission investigation. The difference we're seeing here is that Sondland isn't getting that same projected reduction in placement but being actively turned out. Graham's language betrays him in this. It also provide the reason why the Senate has held firm thus far. We can discuss who might have compromising information about certain people in the Senate, but the present issue isn't one of political corruption. We are facing a different sort of political crisis.

    As has been pointed out before in this and previous threads about Trump and the GOP, they've collectively taken off the mask of political respectability and of ideological consistency. They are full on playing calvinball with the law and government. The long and short of the reason behind this is as simple as avarice and lust for power. The people who are backing them are the money makers & power players in several spheres; Tech, Wall Street, Media, and so forth. Robber barons of the 20th and 21st centuries. Trump himself imagines to be among their kind or their betters despite being turned out by their sort his entire life. And here we have the four players in our formal game, each occupying one corner in the dilemma, and each holding certain cards that can either frustrate the other or can exalt them. What has happened is that Trump or someone near Trump has called for a rule that requires everyone to play with their cards face up for the group to see.

    In Trump's corner he holds cards which can destroy any defector with the bully pulpit he occupies. That same place allows him to pass gifts of money and fortune to those who perform his kabuki well. In the Media/Tech/Wall Street corner. It's sometimes occupied by Fox News, sometimes occupied by CNN, or Facebook, or Twitter. And always, always occupied by Wall Street. These entities holds cards which can win voters over but only if you cooperate with Trump. In another are the Senators such as Graham who hold the ability to defect and leave the game or if they want the money and power which comes with office, they must keep cooperating. In the fourth and final place are us, the public. We have no cards but the vote. We can't leave the game, we can't win through defect or cooperation. We can only keep playing the one card granted to us.

    So what must Graham do to survive? Defect or cooperate? There are no guarantees in Defection, only the fight from further right and the lack of riches to use to get votes. To cooperate is to keep playing, to remain in the game.

    Which is what he does. He wants to keep playing calvinball with the rest of the GOP because he feels there's not another choice. I don't feel that even if one or two senators were to defect that the rest would go with them. It would require a large enough group, say ten or twelve of them, to make a real impact on the game being played against Trump. They all see he has the most powerful of cards. The ones which unlock the wealth needed to win the voters over. As long as he holds that *ahem* trump card, they won't move.

    I'm not suggesting that all is lost or any such dire forecast. This is an analysis of the situation that's been going through my head for a few days now. It feels good to get it out.

    Time in politics moves fast and slow, and not in that order.

    Just like with Nixon, no Republican publicly plans on switching their vote until suddenly they all (or at least a sufficient number) do. That may never happen, but if it does we won't really know ahead of time either.

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