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[Impeachment] Intel Cmte Report Released (OP-2) | Judiciary Hearings Begin (2019/12/04)

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  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    ArcTangent wrote: »
    .
    You're one hell of an optimist if you think Roberts and Gorsuch will do anything pro-government during their tenures

    Gorsuch is a literal anarcho capitalist

    Do you mean pro-Congress? Because Congress and the President are both part of the government, as much as the right wing wishes (for the moment) that only the latter is.

    No, I mean pro government

    As far as most conservatives and most ancaps are concerned, the government exists to keep poor people and minorities in line and subservient to white men and not much else

    A corrupt business man and his family and friends running rough shod over government and minorities is a wet dream for an ancap

    So SCOTUS will produce an anti-government ruling by ruling in favour of the government's defense against the government's prosecution?

    Sounds about right. Except that Trump is a private citizen when there is oversight and the president when it comes to immunity. So the justification would be government over reach against an upstanding businessman.

    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    SCOTUS will either do nothing, which will weaken the government, as is the GOP goal, or they rule in favor of the GOP

    The goal of the GOP is to dismantle government

    SCOTUS doing nothing let's the Appeals Court ruling stand. A victory for the government. Instead, SCOTUS could rule in favour of Congressional Oversight. A victory for the government. Or SCOTUS could rule in favour of a Unitary Executive. Also a victory for the government.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited December 3
    Page 7, immediately citing the framers.
    In his farewell address, President George Washington warned of a moment when "cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

    Yeah, that sums up the last few years pretty well, eh?

    Edit: Ooh, skimming to page 32, about Witness Intimidation:
    It is a federal crime to intimidate or seek to intimidate any witness appearing before Congress. This prohibition applies to anyone who knowingly "uses intimidation, threatens, or corruptly persudes" another person in order to "influence, delay, or prevent the testimony of any person in an official proceeding." Violations of this law can carry a criminal sentence of up to 20 years in prison.
    In more than 100 public statements about the whistleblower over a period of just two months, the President publicly questioned the whistleblower's motives, disputed the accuracy of the whistleblower's account, and encouraged others to reveal the whistleblower's identity. Most chillingly, the President issued a threat against the whistleblower and those who provided information to the whistleblower regarding the President's misconduct, suggesting that they could face the death penalty for treason.

    Not. Pulling. Punches.

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  • SkeithSkeith Registered User regular
    "Cunning" gives them too much credit.

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    Page 7, immediately citing the framers.
    In his farewell address, President George Washington warned of a moment when "cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion."

    Yeah, that sums up the last few years pretty well, eh?

    Well, two out of three.

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  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular


    (Well known investigative reporter)

    Pence was in on it, Mother will be so disappointed

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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited December 3
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    So uh... this is kind of a big deal? Like, the sort of thing that should be an article of impeachment by itself. A staggering amount of corruption, on a scale hitherto unforeseen.



    (Josh Dawsey is a WaPo reporter and CNN analyst.)

    Background on Fisher, for reference:
    Fisher (DUNS 031810617) had steady, but modest, work from FY2001-FY2013, pulling in ~500k in obligated funds, ~40k/yr avg, record in 05 with a 160k win. (Source: various public records)

    Not bad, but also not even 1/3 of the tax/environmental fines they accrued between 2000-2016.
    https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/prog.php?parent=fisher-industries

    Then they did nothing in the public service until FY17 when they got the $350k wall prototype job.

    Fisher was introduced to Trump at the 2018 SOTU by a GOP Senator, who they then donated to, and their lobbying expenditures jumped from $5,000 (2017) to $75,000. (source)

    But then nothing in FY/CY18.

    CY19, however has been quite a damned year for Fisher:

    They lost, protested, and still lost $790M in wall construction contracts in April. The GAO described their solicitation as "unique (and highly flawed)"

    In May they were awarded a slot as a prime on a $5B contract vehicle for wall stuff.

    On Sept 30 (FY19) they were awarded $6.3M to refresh 3.8 miles of lever.

    Two months later they're awarded a $400M task order ($268M obligated) to wall off 31 miles of a wildlife refuge.


    My accusatory tone aside, it's possible that this is just a niche they're good at, and one we only just started throwing money at; but the government's sudden explosion of confidence in them definitely deserves a looking at. (I don't know that I'd bother throwing it on the impeachment docket, though)

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited December 3
    Oh damn. There's call record of Giuliani.

    I'm not surprised, mind you, I'm just like... Damn, black and white records of how heavily they were working with things.

    Page 117 even has a call out to the White House Switchboard (Situation Room).

    Edit: Oh man! Page 210 has references to every tweet in which Trump negatively described the impeachment hearings!

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Oh hello there one Devin Nunes in the call logs with Giuliani and Parnas.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Alright. 300 pages sounds long, but it really isn't that long.

    The setup / overview is from page 7-36, so it is 29 pages.
    Section 1, the misconduct, is pages 37-150, or 113 pages, with 151-201 as the endnotes/references.
    Section 2, the obstruction, is pages 202-262, or 60 pages, with 263-292 as the endnotes to that section.

    293 on is the Appendices. I could make a strong argument that Appendix A should be added to the OP.


    So in total, it's really about 200 pages of WTF the President is a crook, and 100 pages of showing their work.

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  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    Alright. 300 pages sounds long, but it really isn't that long.

    The setup / overview is from page 7-36, so it is 29 pages.
    Section 1, the misconduct, is pages 37-150, or 113 pages, with 151-201 as the endnotes/references.
    Section 2, the obstruction, is pages 202-262, or 60 pages, with 263-292 as the endnotes to that section.

    293 on is the Appendices. I could make a strong argument that Appendix A should be added to the OP.


    So in total, it's really about 200 pages of WTF the President is a crook, and 100 pages of showing their work.

    I really hope Schiff and crew are lined up to do the news shows and explain exactly what is in there. I haven't read it yet but even the early reports of 'OMG look at the things in here' indicate there's a lot of incredibly damning material which was not covered in the televised hearings. They need to get it out there, explained clearly, for the populace who are absolutely not going to read it and probably won't even read reported summaries.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Oh hello there one Devin Nunes in the call logs with Giuliani and Parnas.



    3 times! Jim Sciutto is a cnn anchor.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    AT&T apparently supplied some of these logs so I guess Trump will be attacking them on twitter any minute now.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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  • The SauceThe Sauce Fleur de Alys Registered User regular
    Is that third column the duration in minutes:seconds?

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    Oh hello there one Devin Nunes in the call logs with Giuliani and Parnas.



    3 times! Jim Sciutto is a cnn anchor.

    no, one time =p

  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    AT&T apparently supplied some of these logs so I guess Trump will be attacking them on twitter any minute now.
    Bold of you to assume Trump will read it to see who sourced them.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Didn’t they start up attacking FISA warrants (again) a few weeks ago?

    Not that I like FISA, I think they are bullshit, but I can both hate that shit whilst also enjoying some petty schadenfreude from their hypocrisy. It’s not like Nunes and the GOP cared about FISA warrants when it was only working on minorities.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    I'm still only halfway through the Mueller report. I hope that some reporter will read it and summarize.

  • TheBigEasyTheBigEasy Registered User regular
    This is "just" a report, right? Articles of impeachment is still a ways off, as for example Judiciary will have its hearings this week. AoI are also the point when they hand it over to the senate, right?

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  • Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    edited December 3
    Looks like Trump has plenty of targets to go after today.
    The DC appeals 2nd Circuit court has said that Deutsche Bank and Capital One must turn over financial data that's been requested by the House Intelligence & Financial committees. This would include the tax records of...*checks notes* Trump and members of his family, so sons, daughter, sons-in-law, looks to be just about everyone.
    CNN article
    While it's certain to be appealed, again, there's already one of these before the court. I'd be surprised for the court to pull up a second instance of a decision that's not yet been made.

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    AT&T apparently supplied some of these logs so I guess Trump will be attacking them on twitter any minute now.

    Is it too late to block the T-Mobile merger?

  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    This is "just" a report, right? Articles of impeachment is still a ways off, as for example Judiciary will have its hearings this week. AoI are also the point when they hand it over to the senate, right?

    Yeah. The Intelligence Committee are the ones who carried out the private and public hearings. They draft a report, which is this thing, and it gets submitted to the House Judiciary Committee. That committee then holds whatever sequence of hearings they deem necessary to review the report and decide on what, if any, articles of impeachment are appropriate. I believe that committee is then responsible for actually drafting the articles, which then go before a vote of the full House. If that vote passes then they are submitted to the Senate.

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  • IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know Texas booniesRegistered User regular
    edited December 3
    The Sauce wrote: »
    Is that third column the duration in minutes:seconds?

    Likely as you see the time between the second and third is only two seconds.

    If the first name is from and the second is to, then Lev called up Nunes for a quick chat, and then Nunes got screened by Lev a half hour or so later.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    TheBigEasy wrote: »
    This is "just" a report, right? Articles of impeachment is still a ways off, as for example Judiciary will have its hearings this week. AoI are also the point when they hand it over to the senate, right?

    Yeah. The Intelligence Committee are the ones who carried out the private and public hearings. They draft a report, which is this thing, and it gets submitted to the House Judiciary Committee. That committee then holds whatever sequence of hearings they deem necessary to review the report and decide on what, if any, articles of impeachment are appropriate. I believe that committee is then responsible for actually drafting the articles, which then go before a vote of the full House. If that vote passes then they are submitted to the Senate.

    Note this report references a lot of committees.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    The official response from the White House Press Secretary.

    Seung Min Kim of the Washington Post: .@PressSec on the House Intel impeachment report: "Chairman Schiff’s report reads like the ramblings of a basement blogger straining to prove something when there is evidence of nothing.”

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    So "I reject your reality and substitute my own". Like that line was 100% written before the report came out.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    The official response from the White House Press Secretary.

    Seung Min Kim of the Washington Post: .@PressSec on the House Intel impeachment report: "Chairman Schiff’s report reads like the ramblings of a basement blogger straining to prove something when there is evidence of nothing.”

    So, essentially, he is saying it Chairman Schiff sourced his report from r/the_donald.



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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    So... it looks like there's quite a bit of crossfire here.

    (reporter, Courthouse News)


    April 1: Solomon publishes op-ed titled "Joe Biden's 2020 Ukrainian Nightmare"

    April 1 to 7: Parnas on the phone with Giuliani about 16 times and with Solomon about 10 times.

    April 7: Follow-up opinion piece by Solomon smearing Yovanovitch

    ...

    The day after that story's publication, the Intelligence Committee's ranking member, Rep. Devin Nunes, enters the picture in a flurry of calls with Giuliani, Parnas and Solomon, per the report.

    Solomon is an investigative reporter for The Hill who is now in, as the kids put it, Deep Shit. Nunes is also pretty heavily implicated in all kinds of back-channel fuckmuppetry.

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  • GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    The intensity of the projection melts steel beams.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    By "investigative reporter" you mean "lying propagandist."

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    What's that someone in the news media was doing GOP dirty work? I'm shocked.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    The official response from the White House Press Secretary.

    Seung Min Kim of the Washington Post: .@PressSec on the House Intel impeachment report: "Chairman Schiff’s report reads like the ramblings of a basement blogger straining to prove something when there is evidence of nothing.”

    So, essentially, he is saying it Chairman Schiff sourced his report from r/the_donald.

    She.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    What's that someone in the news media was doing GOP dirty work? I'm shocked.

    Your quid pro quo, sir.

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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    By "investigative reporter" you mean "lying propagandist."

    I mean, yes, but his career in anything but Fox News is now over, so gone is the veneer of credibility for working... anywhere other than Fox.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    The official response from the White House Press Secretary.

    Seung Min Kim of the Washington Post: .@PressSec on the House Intel impeachment report: "Chairman Schiff’s report reads like the ramblings of a basement blogger straining to prove something when there is evidence of nothing.”

    So, essentially, he is saying it Chairman Schiff sourced his report from r/the_donald.

    She.

    Sorry, it's hard to keep track of which PressSec we are on at the moment.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited December 3
    Viskod wrote: »
    The official response from the White House Press Secretary.

    Seung Min Kim of the Washington Post: .@PressSec on the House Intel impeachment report: "Chairman Schiff’s report reads like the ramblings of a basement blogger straining to prove something when there is evidence of nothing.”

    So, essentially, she is saying it Chairman Schiff sourced his report from r/the_donald.

    And this narrative is why I pointed out that the report has 100 pages of endnotes. That is a LOT of primary sourcing.

    Athenor on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited December 3
    Trump decided to go back to the projection well.

    CNN fact checker:
    Trump's full quote on Adam Schiff in London: "I think he's a maniac. I think Adam Schiff is a deranged human being. I think he grew up with a complex for lots of reasons that are obvious. I think he's a very sick man. And he lies."

    And just derangement in general:
    https://twitter.com/ddale8
    The quote: Someday in the distant future, Trump said, "You'll have a Democrat president. You'll have a Republican House. They’ll do the same thing. Because somebody picked an orange out of a refrigerator and you don’t like it, so let’s go and impeach him.”

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    I'm gonna smirk a little bit at the insane projection involved in Trump's goto metaphor involving an orange.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    I think Trump is right about the next Republican House impeaching a Democratic President for no reason. That's how Republicans do things.

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