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[Giant Bomb] Noooooooooooooooo! :(

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    LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    GONG-00 wrote: »
    Personally, I do not find it any weirder than a man wearing a wig, 'stache, and a plate carrier in order to stream his "persona" of being a smug asshole.

    why can't both be bad?

    Well, for one thing, Vtubers aren’t inherently bad. While the guy who streams in public bathrooms is.

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    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    Every streamer, have they a human face or an anime avatar, is selling you a performance. At best you're getting a highly curated version of them, but pretty much any streamer with a tip jar and a subscription is performing.

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    DiarmuidDiarmuid Amazing Meatball Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Most of the vtubers seem like they're having a lot of fun and it's cool to see people having fun.

    I don't think there's any need to put much thought into it beyond that right now.

    Diarmuid on
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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    yeah I don't see any reason to get upset at the existence of vtubes. I personally don't watch streams because I'd rather spend my free time, you know, playing a game, but I'm not gonna hate on a vtuber.

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    admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Aistan wrote: »
    If the performance is never dropped, does it make a difference? Is them being 'real' what you enjoy or is it the content they produce? Or both?

    I'm just trying to understand where the distinction comes in. If the end result is something likeable then does it matter if it's being done as part of an act?

    Again, this is all just what I enjoy, not a value judgement on the existence of the thing. But what I've found is that I enjoy streamers less and less the more it feels like they're performing a character. Obviously all streaming is performance, but it needs to be on the lighter end of that for me.

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    SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    having skimmed a few minutes of Danika's vtuber video - the immediate problem was I already found Danika amusing on various videos and the forced persona away from that less amusing

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    GONG-00GONG-00 Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    Aistan wrote: »
    If the performance is never dropped, does it make a difference? Is them being 'real' what you enjoy or is it the content they produce? Or both?

    I'm just trying to understand where the distinction comes in. If the end result is something likeable then does it matter if it's being done as part of an act?

    Again, this is all just what I enjoy, not a value judgement on the existence of the thing. But what I've found is that I enjoy streamers less and less the more it feels like they're performing a character. Obviously all streaming is performance, but it needs to be on the lighter end of that for me.

    It's why I found the Heel version of Dan far less enjoyable to watch compared to when he does not play up that element of his personality.

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    CormacCormac Registered User regular
    Conversely, I've found myself enjoying watching vtubers more than traditional streamers over the past few months.

    Part of that comes down to the streamers I keep up with aren't playing games I find interesting (most of the vtubers aren't either), but I just enjoy the personalities, collaborations, and general shtick of some vtubers more.

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    agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    SeGaTai wrote: »
    having skimmed a few minutes of Danika's vtuber video - the immediate problem was I already found Danika amusing on various videos and the forced persona away from that less amusing

    Oh no is it all baby voice?

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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    agoaj wrote: »
    SeGaTai wrote: »
    having skimmed a few minutes of Danika's vtuber video - the immediate problem was I already found Danika amusing on various videos and the forced persona away from that less amusing

    Oh no is it all baby voice?

    It's not baby voice but it certainly veers closer to baby voice than her actual voice.

    I dunno, the whole "kawaii desu" mildly appropriative aspect of v-tubers makes me side-eye a little bit

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    CormacCormac Registered User regular
    agoaj wrote: »
    SeGaTai wrote: »
    having skimmed a few minutes of Danika's vtuber video - the immediate problem was I already found Danika amusing on various videos and the forced persona away from that less amusing

    Oh no is it all baby voice?

    It's not baby voice but it certainly veers closer to baby voice than her actual voice.

    I dunno, the whole "kawaii desu" mildly appropriative aspect of v-tubers makes me side-eye a little bit

    The baby voice thing definitely does not appeal to me even as someone who likes vtubers. In most cases I even find it off putting. Thankfully, there are plenty of them that talk in a normal voice that you can just watch those ones instead.

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    OmnomnomPancakeOmnomnomPancake Registered User regular
    To this day I wish premium subs had the option to turn off the facecams for Giantbomb stuff. I just find it too distracting to switch between looking at the crew's reaction and what's actually occurring on screen.

    Having them voice narrate and chat while that game occurs has always been more than enough for me, and it's why I still love Quick Looks a lot.

    The big events like UPF or BLLS notwithstanding.

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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    There was that Breaking Brad for Mario 2/Lost Levels where the facecam tech broke and it was just that.

    Jason immediately started eating because he wasn't on camera and thus there were no rules. I think other people started eating and drinking too.

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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    Personally I like the facecams a lot and sometimes find the non-facecam streams weirder to watch. I also stream regularly myself and do a normal facecam and if I have a "persona" it's just me but a little more "on" or energetic. I definitely see the appeal of vtubers and know a few good streamers who use 3d avatars instead of facecams. It's helpful for twitch to connect with folks by having the facecam, but giantbomb has an existing audience that might not need it. Different strokes and all that.

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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    Have they added facecams to any video that would not have had a shot of the studio in it in pre-pandemic times? Facecams work fine with stuff like not-UPF and Playdates, because you had something like a facecam before

    It's not like they're adding facecams to Quick Looks or anything like that.

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    OmnomnomPancakeOmnomnomPancake Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    HOLY FUCK Danny is 10000000x better than Ben.

    They need to pay to have him on the Giant Bombcast permanently, or at least until COVID clears and Danny gets back into full documentary-mode.

    OmnomnomPancake on
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    KreutzKreutz Blackwater Park, IARegistered User regular
    edited February 2021
    I don't know if I would make it a qualitative thing, but Danny seems a lot more comfortable with the rest of the crew than Ben. That probably has a lot to do with Danny having been a member of the community since the Hot Spot days and just having more experience with the industry and broadcasting in general. I really hope Ben can be confident and comfortable in whatever he does next.

    Kreutz on
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    RehabRehab Registered User regular
    I've been rewatching a lot of Ranking of Fighters lately and the entire 2nd part of Episode 33 where Blood Warrior is covered basically could have been a Best of Ben Pack videoby itself. I forgot how much that weird game was fun to watch Ben and Jeff play and just fucking rules.

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    HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    I think Ben has the problem that Alex used to have. He's constantly trying to hard to make a joke and to be "on" all the time. Alex got over this over time and is now amazing on pods. Ben still feels he needs to perform, or at least isn't comfortable with the performance.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Yeah, losing Ben, Abby and Dan was a huge blow to the energy of Giant Bomb. Danny is great, bit he's the same speed as Brad and Jeff and the rest.

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    MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    Not knowing him at all, I think Ben could have been really good given more time.

    Agreed, Hardtarget - he was trying too hard, apparently due to his uncomfortableness on camera.

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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    Danny is an industry vet and a peer.

    Ben was/is/was relatively new to the business (I think he worked at Destructoid for a bit after his Whiskey Media intern days) and the age disparity probably didn't help.

    But also Ben was awesome and would riff with Jeff the way Ryan would. Maybe it's their shared knowledge of Northern California.

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    HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I basically just follow GB and Waypoint and not really other games media. Feels like so many people have quit recently. With not being on twitter or anything when anyone leaves those two sites they’re gone from my view.

    Unless they show up on 3MA but that’s not common.

    I had forgotten about Danika, I loved her on the Waypoint pods.

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    RehabRehab Registered User regular
    Yeah, I thought the combination of Ben and Jeff for the Bombcast Aftershow really worked.

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    HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    hmmmm
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    ENHANCE

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    nice

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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Ben was good one on one or a small group. Like him and Jan in the mornings, or the new crew on "my first e3" with Abby and of course the aftershow.

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    TehSpectreTehSpectre Registered User regular
    If it weren't for Ben, I'd never have known Goofy is a funny animal.

    Kingdom Heartache was one of the best troll series of all time.

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    BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    The Ben and Jan bromance might actually be one of the best out of the entire crew historically

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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    I've been catching up on the Hotspot.

    In that photo of not-UPF, is that hand sanitizer, or the lube that Jeff got sent accidentally when some company thought he was a lifestyle influencer?

    I also love that they've started messing with couch imagery now that the friday show is back.

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    BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    BRIAN BLESSED on
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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Ex-Vlambeer co-founder and friend of the site Rami Ismail had an unfortunate meltdown on Twitter last night and has deleted his account.
    While I've personally gotten into a couple of arguments with Rami on similar topics I do think the platform is worse off without his voice and I hope he comes back.

    That said, I really disagree with him wrt to the point that drove him off Twitter and I'm glad Gita Jackson called him on his bullshit in this particular case.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Ex-Vlambeer co-founder and friend of the site Rami Ismail had an unfortunate meltdown on Twitter last night and has deleted his account.
    While I've personally gotten into a couple of arguments with Rami on similar topics I do think the platform is worse off without his voice and I hope he comes back.

    That said, I really disagree with him wrt to the point that drove him off Twitter and I'm glad Gita Jackson called him on his bullshit in this particular case.

    His Twitter is gone, and Vita's looks like it's private. A crumb of context?

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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    Rami had been calling out the coverage around games that involve the Middle East and how they erase arab identity for the sake of fun and gameplay - which he is right to call out. This was particularly coalescing around the media coverage for Six Days in Fallujah and how no media had reached out to him for his take on the issue (for context Rami is Egyptian but born and raised in Holland).
    He eventually made the misstep of claiming that if the same thing was done to other POCs (particularly the black community) the media would be all over it. Jackson called him to the matt on that comment (rightfully so) afterwhich Rami kind of went nuclear and and deleted his account.

    I don't want to post screengrabs of the conversations here because I think it's a nuanced issue and all of the accounts I'm seeing the grabs from are pretty entrenched in one camp or the other. If you search his name on Twitter you'll find them however.

    edit: this is also a gross over-simplification of the entire debate.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
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    BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    edited February 2021
    I think the greater issue for which Rami needs to be listened to and for what point he had made prior is that very little if at all any reference to the Arabic experience is made when broaching this subject matter. It's not even about consulting Rami specifically, it's about finding literally anyone that has lived through and experienced this suffering and hearing their voice on the issue.
    Even now, at best the instigating article dips into passive voice language about a subject that has some pretty clearly ugly connotations.

    I think Rami seriously fumbled by turning it into oppression olympics but at the same time I think journalists rebutting with "these pieces take research and time" or "don't call me out to solve your social issues" need to realise that this is a multibillion dollar genre that has been doing this problematic shit for more than 20 years (to say nothing of the non-videogame entertainment sectors). This has less to do with any one journalist than it does the institutions that might not have these issues as high on their list of priorities in order to keep their businesses afloat

    I imagine it stings doubly so when an openly ugly relic of an earlier time where even the publisher back then found it unpalatable, now somehow returns to find a platform in the year 2021

    BRIAN BLESSED on
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    cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    He got into a similar argument a few weeks/months ago with Shawn Allen (friend of the site and Treachery in Beatdown City dev) about how American imperialism casts a wide shadow in video games (true), but then he started line-stepping by claiming that the American experience is monolithic as well as many other generalities about power structures in America as it relates to the world, which people like Shawn Allen took rightful umbrage with.

    I don't think you have to look too hard to see that not everyone in America is the same/equal, and where both dudes were coming from. But Rami was/is anything but graceful with his points.

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    SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    twitter continues to be a terrible platform for actually getting into complicated issues, but I also don't know a better place for people to get exposed to a lot of new ideas to them

    PSN SeGaTai
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    SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    He got into a similar argument a few weeks/months ago with Shawn Allen (friend of the site and Treachery in Beatdown City dev) about how American imperialism casts a wide shadow in video games (true), but then he started line-stepping by claiming that the American experience is monolithic as well as many other generalities about power structures in America as it relates to the world, which people like Shawn Allen took rightful umbrage with.

    I don't think you have to look too hard to see that not everyone in America is the same/equal, and where both dudes were coming from. But Rami was/is anything but graceful with his points.

    This is pretty similar to the context I've gotten into online debates with him about too. Specifically in a conversation about erasing cultural identity when he was refusing to acknowledge that North America is not one single monolithic culture.

    He was a real chip on his shoulder wrt to Americans in particular which tends to undermine a lot of his arguments when he really gets into it.

    Ultimately I appreciate his pov though and wish none of this would've happened.

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    GlalGlal AiredaleRegistered User regular
    LiveJournal/Blogs were great. You could write as detailed a breakdown as you wanted to, you had complete control of the contents, you had moderation control over both who got to see them, the people who could comment on them and the comments themselves, your creation wasn't literally just a side benefit of a corporation trying to farm engagement, it both encouraged long form content and didn't have an algorithm promoting the most controversial ones resulting in a Hot Take culture that values speed over accuracy...

    Oh, to dream of the far, far future of 1997 when such miracles were be possible.

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    HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Specifically in a conversation about erasing cultural identity when he was refusing to acknowledge that North America is not one single monolithic culture.
    wow fuck that
    as a Jewish Canadian, yikes.

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    admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    He got into a similar argument a few weeks/months ago with Shawn Allen (friend of the site and Treachery in Beatdown City dev) about how American imperialism casts a wide shadow in video games (true), but then he started line-stepping by claiming that the American experience is monolithic as well as many other generalities about power structures in America as it relates to the world, which people like Shawn Allen took rightful umbrage with.

    I don't think you have to look too hard to see that not everyone in America is the same/equal, and where both dudes were coming from. But Rami was/is anything but graceful with his points.

    This is pretty similar to the context I've gotten into online debates with him about too. Specifically in a conversation about erasing cultural identity when he was refusing to acknowledge that North America is not one single monolithic culture.

    You'd think with the amount of time he'd spent traveling he would've been cleansed of the European perspective on the US, but I guess it takes more than that.
    Glal wrote: »
    LiveJournal/Blogs were great. You could write as detailed a breakdown as you wanted to, you had complete control of the contents, you had moderation control over both who got to see them, the people who could comment on them and the comments themselves, your creation wasn't literally just a side benefit of a corporation trying to farm engagement, it both encouraged long form content and didn't have an algorithm promoting the most controversial ones resulting in a Hot Take culture that values speed over accuracy...

    Oh, to dream of the far, far future of 1997 when such miracles were be possible.

    A lot of these things are true but we can't forget the LJ style of Twitter argument where people would selectively-quote huge swaths of a post onto their own LJ for their own readers to "comment" on.

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