I mean what I took from this episode was Jerry and Beth are bad parents, but Rick is a worse parent. Maybe even to the point where the idea of even calling him a parent at all is farcical.
It's telling that Rick only compliments Beth when she's acting like him
Rick "succeeded" in that he created a dystopian civilization that literally throws people away after he was goaded by the daughter he's abandoned many times to not abandon his latest children.
Only to screw that up by refusing to let go after a week's worth of effort.
Rick and Jerry both screwed up. One just did it more impressively.
Ruck constantly shits on Jerry for "ruining" Beth's life, but really, if Rick wanted to, he could make Jerry into everything he wants for Beth. He just doesn't, because fuck Jerry.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Jerry is kind of a pathetic asshole, though
He wouldn’t be as unbearable if he wasn’t so smug and condescending and oblivious about just how awful he is.
It’s like Summer said, Jerry constantly tries to prove his worth by trapping people in scenarios against their will where they’re out of their element.
He wouldn’t be as unbearable if he wasn’t so smug and condescending and oblivious about just how awful he is.
It’s like Summer said, Jerry constantly tries to prove his worth by trapping people in scenarios against their will where they’re out of their element.
He wouldn’t be as unbearable if he wasn’t so smug and condescending and oblivious about just how awful he is.
It’s like Summer said, Jerry constantly tries to prove his worth by trapping people in scenarios against their will where they’re out of their element.
Right, and Rick could make him not that.
Rick did try. He took Beth and Jerry to alien marriage counseling.
He wouldn’t be as unbearable if he wasn’t so smug and condescending and oblivious about just how awful he is.
It’s like Summer said, Jerry constantly tries to prove his worth by trapping people in scenarios against their will where they’re out of their element.
Right, and Rick could make him not that.
Rick did try. He took Beth and Jerry to alien marriage counseling.
I meant actually doing it, not passing the buck to someone else.
He wouldn’t be as unbearable if he wasn’t so smug and condescending and oblivious about just how awful he is.
It’s like Summer said, Jerry constantly tries to prove his worth by trapping people in scenarios against their will where they’re out of their element.
Ehh the show has really fallen into the loop of celebrating what a genius A-Hole Rick is and how that makes him valuable as a person since Season 3 opening.
It's honestly how much they're already recycling plot beats from previous season (Oh when have we seen Beth helping out Rick?) It's very apparent how afraid the writing staff must be to attempt some sort of continuity because it would force them to stop using the same stories over and over again.
He wouldn’t be as unbearable if he wasn’t so smug and condescending and oblivious about just how awful he is.
It’s like Summer said, Jerry constantly tries to prove his worth by trapping people in scenarios against their will where they’re out of their element.
With most Jerry scenarios, I'd agree. But here, I think "Father wants to have camping trip and spend time with family" hits a little too close to home for some people. Especially if you're in the age bracket now where you sympathize with the father.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
It's almost like the show was great because of those rare moments, and in fact fans demanding they address plot points likely does the exact opposite; showrunners don't like to read theories online usually, and don't like to be told what/where to focus their energies. The show is a comedy first and foremost, with any overarching plot always, from season one, taking a backseat to the jokes. Yes, the show has gone back and explored some of those plot threads, and usually those are the highest rated episodes. But if every episode was plot plot plot it wouldn't be R&M, it would be Star Trek with butt jokes.
I don't think that Rick and Morty should be the new Venture Bros., but I also think there's a distinct line the showrunners are pushing rick and his edgelord hijinks in service to the more toxic sides of the fandom.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
He wouldn’t be as unbearable if he wasn’t so smug and condescending and oblivious about just how awful he is.
It’s like Summer said, Jerry constantly tries to prove his worth by trapping people in scenarios against their will where they’re out of their element.
With most Jerry scenarios, I'd agree. But here, I think "Father wants to have camping trip and spend time with family" hits a little too close to home for some people. Especially if you're in the age bracket now where you sympathize with the father.
Given that Jerry and Beth were in their teens when Summer was born, I’m approximately their age now and I’m a mom, to boot.
I also grew up with an extremely outdoorsy father who would condescend and denigrate any and all who didn’t abide by his smug, holier-than-thou beliefs regarding the virtues of “simple living.”
Jerry is just as much a bully as Rick, and never misses a chance to highroad anyone the second he thinks he has an advantage. The difference in how the characters react to he and Rick is due to the gulf in competence and familial need.
Jerry, as we’ve seen on multiple occasions, is not a good person. That doesn’t mean Rick is good, either, but Rick makes himself useful and doesn’t demand undue respect and attention he can’t command. Jerry doesn’t care one whit about his family outside of their ability to stroke his own ego.
He’s the avatar of unearned mediocre white male entitlement, and I enjoy every chance this show takes to knock him down a peg. Especially when Summer does it.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I don't think that Rick and Morty should be the new Venture Bros., but I also think there's a distinct line the showrunners are pushing rick and his edgelord hijinks in service to the more toxic sides of the fandom.
The show has taken multiple pointed jabs at that section of the fanbase and has disowned them in no small part. If those misanthropic knuckledraggers want to keep reading the tea leaves for portents of approval while being told with open hostility that they’re not wanted, that’s on them.
I don't think that Rick and Morty should be the new Venture Bros., but I also think there's a distinct line the showrunners are pushing rick and his edgelord hijinks in service to the more toxic sides of the fandom.
I don't think they're really propping up Rick like you think they are. They make him petty and vindictive on purpose. If you can watch the Vat of Acid episode and think Rick is the protagonist, you're wrong. Morty is the protagonist, and Rick is more like an ambivalent demigod with a galaxy sized chip on his shoulder. I don't think they pander to the toxic side of their fanbase, they're consistently trolling those people and making anti-Alt Right jokes all the time. Rick just appeals to those types of people, because those types perceive themselves/want to be like Rick, without getting the extremely obvious criticisms and fallouts of his actions.
But again, the show is about him, in part, so of course he's gonna be a focus of the show. Without Rick, the plot doesn't advance. Rick isn't glorified, he's mocked. He'd rather nearly die as a pickle than go to family therapy once and that's not the behavior of a healthy minded person. Rick is a dick because it's funny, it's why people like Archer (or literally any other character Jon Benjamin plays) or any other myriad of drunken, depressed, smart white guy stereotype character.
intelligence alone won't make you happy, but it will make you somewhat entertaining
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
It's kind of hard for Jerry to be a bully when his family is constantly calling him an unemployed loser.
(As I've said before, the show needs to do a better job of showing Jerry to be a terrible person and not someone who is depressed and has largely given up.)
Summer was terribly harsh but also right. Jerry didn't want to take them camping to spend time with them. He wanted to put them in a situation where he could feel superior and needed.
Rick isn't glorified, he's mocked. He'd rather nearly die as a pickle than go to family therapy once and that's not the behavior of a healthy minded person.
The pickle Rick episode is actually not a bad example of what I'm talking about. He completely subverts any attempts to hold him accountable and it's one of the most popular episodes in the fandom despite it being almost non-stop "Rick is such a badass" masterbatory fantasy. The best episodes are ones that explore Rick's flaws, not Doctor Mary-sue.
Rick gets completely dressed down at the end by an actual doctor, who tells Rick to his face he's too cowardly to do the daily work of maintaining himself, his mental health and how he treats his family. The whole episode is Rick trying to subvert his responsibilities, and in the end having to at least momentarily eat crow and listen to one of his deepest flaws laid bare in front of his family. And he doesn't disagree with a thing she says.
Rick isn't glorified, he's mocked. He'd rather nearly die as a pickle than go to family therapy once and that's not the behavior of a healthy minded person.
The pickle Rick episode is actually not a bad example of what I'm talking about. He completely subverts any attempts to hold him accountable and it's one of the most popular episodes in the fandom despite it being almost non-stop "Rick is such a badass" masterbatory fantasy. The best episodes are ones that explore Rick's flaws, not Doctor Mary-sue.
The issue here is that he toxic elements of the audience are not able to figure out that the end of that episode is Rick being put in his place and then running off and hiding in a bottle.
It's like reading Don Quixote and not realizing that Don Quixote is a bumbling senile old man.
It's kind of hard for Jerry to be a bully when his family is constantly calling him an unemployed loser.
(As I've said before, the show needs to do a better job of showing Jerry to be a terrible person and not someone who is depressed and has largely given up.)
I think one thing the show does a lot is demonstrate how succumbing to nihilism can make you a terrible person. Morty's worth is that he's better at pulling himself out of it than others, but nobody is great at doing that
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
But it's not examined, nor does it have any repercussions. What price did he pay during his hero's journey?
Nearly dying painful death, and also having to admit for once in his life he was actually wrong for lying, which probably hurt more than the dying part. Rick is stubborn, but again people liked pickle Rick for the meme, and didn't understand the subtext. Just like with Wubba Lubba dub dub being a joke on sitcom characters and actually having a darker meaning.
It also probably awakened Morty and Summer to their mother's toxic relationship with Rick.
Rick isn't glorified, he's mocked. He'd rather nearly die as a pickle than go to family therapy once and that's not the behavior of a healthy minded person.
The pickle Rick episode is actually not a bad example of what I'm talking about. He completely subverts any attempts to hold him accountable and it's one of the most popular episodes in the fandom despite it being almost non-stop "Rick is such a badass" masterbatory fantasy. The best episodes are ones that explore Rick's flaws, not Doctor Mary-sue.
I think if you took away the notion that Rick is a cool badass from that episode, you’re doing something wrong. Yes, he turned himself into a pickle and blew up an embassy in spectacular fashion, but he also ended the episode by refusing to help reunite a man that saved his life with his daughter, trashed the therapist trying to help his toxic family, and went off to get drunk with his own daughter while his grandkids begged for more therapy.
A lot of what we think is cool and awesome is toxic because if it was compatible enough with a healthy society to be commonplace, it wouldn't be novel. Some part of us wants to see things we haven't seen before and is attracted to the mystery of the unpredictable.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
1)Rick does amazing crazy shit that is fun to watch and sometimes really awesome
2)Rick is a narcissist, incredibly, toxic, has a drinking problem, and at time is blatantly suicidal while also being destructive to those around him
The second is the key underlying theme. The first is the tool used to display that power and intelligence isn't a cure for the second.
Rick isn't glorified, he's mocked. He'd rather nearly die as a pickle than go to family therapy once and that's not the behavior of a healthy minded person.
The pickle Rick episode is actually not a bad example of what I'm talking about. He completely subverts any attempts to hold him accountable and it's one of the most popular episodes in the fandom despite it being almost non-stop "Rick is such a badass" masterbatory fantasy. The best episodes are ones that explore Rick's flaws, not Doctor Mary-sue.
I think if you took away the notion that Rick is a cool badass from that episode, you’re doing something wrong. Yes, he turned himself into a pickle and blew up an embassy in spectacular fashion, but he also ended the episode by refusing to help reunite a man that saved his life with his daughter, trashed the therapist trying to help his toxic family, and went off to get drunk with his own daughter while his grandkids begged for more therapy.
Rick is toxic af.
I don't find it appealing at all, that's not my take. But even someone casually aware of Rick and Morty knows about picklerick because it's literally everything that's bad about the fanbase, wrapped up in one episode.
Not trying to just stir the pot, or to come off as a curmudgeon hipster-pastiche. This is just my primary problem with R&M past season two, it's a victim of it's own success.
But it's not examined, nor does it have any repercussions. What price did he pay during his hero's journey?
Well one he has no hero's journey because hes not a hero.
Two by the end of the season he's effectively been put in his place by the family and has to abide by their rules or get out
King Riptor on
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I know this sounds kinda mean, but I love seeing Jerry get kicked around, and I’m glad the show rarely misses an opportunity. My only real criticism of this season has been the relative lack of plotlines for Jerry and Beth, who to me are a core element of the show’s exploration of toxic family dynamics.
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Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
Hey, speaking of that therapist from the Pickle Rick episode:
And I guess good news for folks who were missing Beth and Jerry time. Beth and Jerry go to Dr. Wong this season finale everybody! It's a Beth and Jerry episode!
Jerry getting kicked around because he insists on doing stupid things is consistently entertaining.
Jerry getting kicked around because the universe has basically decided "fuck Jerry" is a consistent snore.
Oh yeah, Jerry doesn’t need to be a schlemiel, that’s not the appeal of seeing him beaten down. Jerry does enough stupid shit on his own, molding plenty of petards to host himself upon.
I don't think Jerry is good and innocent by any means, but the rest of his family is made up of hateful, verbally abusive people who constantly treat him like shit. I can't help but see Jerry as at least the least bad person in his family, and the fact that the writers and fanbase at large treat Jerry poorly makes me feel like his biggest sin in the eyes of those people is that he largely doesn't retaliate when he's being attacked. The reason he's a loser is because when people treat him terribly and verbally abuse him he just takes it instead of fighting back. It sends this toxic message that being being abusive is cool and good, actually.
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It's telling that Rick only compliments Beth when she's acting like him
Only to screw that up by refusing to let go after a week's worth of effort.
Rick and Jerry both screwed up. One just did it more impressively.
He wouldn’t be as unbearable if he wasn’t so smug and condescending and oblivious about just how awful he is.
It’s like Summer said, Jerry constantly tries to prove his worth by trapping people in scenarios against their will where they’re out of their element.
Right, and Rick could make him not that.
Rick did try. He took Beth and Jerry to alien marriage counseling.
I meant actually doing it, not passing the buck to someone else.
Ehh the show has really fallen into the loop of celebrating what a genius A-Hole Rick is and how that makes him valuable as a person since Season 3 opening.
It's honestly how much they're already recycling plot beats from previous season (Oh when have we seen Beth helping out Rick?) It's very apparent how afraid the writing staff must be to attempt some sort of continuity because it would force them to stop using the same stories over and over again.
With most Jerry scenarios, I'd agree. But here, I think "Father wants to have camping trip and spend time with family" hits a little too close to home for some people. Especially if you're in the age bracket now where you sympathize with the father.
Given that Jerry and Beth were in their teens when Summer was born, I’m approximately their age now and I’m a mom, to boot.
I also grew up with an extremely outdoorsy father who would condescend and denigrate any and all who didn’t abide by his smug, holier-than-thou beliefs regarding the virtues of “simple living.”
Jerry is just as much a bully as Rick, and never misses a chance to highroad anyone the second he thinks he has an advantage. The difference in how the characters react to he and Rick is due to the gulf in competence and familial need.
Jerry, as we’ve seen on multiple occasions, is not a good person. That doesn’t mean Rick is good, either, but Rick makes himself useful and doesn’t demand undue respect and attention he can’t command. Jerry doesn’t care one whit about his family outside of their ability to stroke his own ego.
He’s the avatar of unearned mediocre white male entitlement, and I enjoy every chance this show takes to knock him down a peg. Especially when Summer does it.
The show has taken multiple pointed jabs at that section of the fanbase and has disowned them in no small part. If those misanthropic knuckledraggers want to keep reading the tea leaves for portents of approval while being told with open hostility that they’re not wanted, that’s on them.
I don't think they're really propping up Rick like you think they are. They make him petty and vindictive on purpose. If you can watch the Vat of Acid episode and think Rick is the protagonist, you're wrong. Morty is the protagonist, and Rick is more like an ambivalent demigod with a galaxy sized chip on his shoulder. I don't think they pander to the toxic side of their fanbase, they're consistently trolling those people and making anti-Alt Right jokes all the time. Rick just appeals to those types of people, because those types perceive themselves/want to be like Rick, without getting the extremely obvious criticisms and fallouts of his actions.
But again, the show is about him, in part, so of course he's gonna be a focus of the show. Without Rick, the plot doesn't advance. Rick isn't glorified, he's mocked. He'd rather nearly die as a pickle than go to family therapy once and that's not the behavior of a healthy minded person. Rick is a dick because it's funny, it's why people like Archer (or literally any other character Jon Benjamin plays) or any other myriad of drunken, depressed, smart white guy stereotype character.
The most intelligent being in the universe and he drunkenly stumbles his way through life abusing everyone who is foolish enough to care about him.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
(As I've said before, the show needs to do a better job of showing Jerry to be a terrible person and not someone who is depressed and has largely given up.)
The pickle Rick episode is actually not a bad example of what I'm talking about. He completely subverts any attempts to hold him accountable and it's one of the most popular episodes in the fandom despite it being almost non-stop "Rick is such a badass" masterbatory fantasy. The best episodes are ones that explore Rick's flaws, not Doctor Mary-sue.
The issue here is that he toxic elements of the audience are not able to figure out that the end of that episode is Rick being put in his place and then running off and hiding in a bottle.
It's like reading Don Quixote and not realizing that Don Quixote is a bumbling senile old man.
I think one thing the show does a lot is demonstrate how succumbing to nihilism can make you a terrible person. Morty's worth is that he's better at pulling himself out of it than others, but nobody is great at doing that
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Nearly dying painful death, and also having to admit for once in his life he was actually wrong for lying, which probably hurt more than the dying part. Rick is stubborn, but again people liked pickle Rick for the meme, and didn't understand the subtext. Just like with Wubba Lubba dub dub being a joke on sitcom characters and actually having a darker meaning.
It also probably awakened Morty and Summer to their mother's toxic relationship with Rick.
A continuously dysfunctional family that suffers with him and often because of him.
I think if you took away the notion that Rick is a cool badass from that episode, you’re doing something wrong. Yes, he turned himself into a pickle and blew up an embassy in spectacular fashion, but he also ended the episode by refusing to help reunite a man that saved his life with his daughter, trashed the therapist trying to help his toxic family, and went off to get drunk with his own daughter while his grandkids begged for more therapy.
Rick is toxic af.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
1)Rick does amazing crazy shit that is fun to watch and sometimes really awesome
2)Rick is a narcissist, incredibly, toxic, has a drinking problem, and at time is blatantly suicidal while also being destructive to those around him
The second is the key underlying theme. The first is the tool used to display that power and intelligence isn't a cure for the second.
I don't find it appealing at all, that's not my take. But even someone casually aware of Rick and Morty knows about picklerick because it's literally everything that's bad about the fanbase, wrapped up in one episode.
Not trying to just stir the pot, or to come off as a curmudgeon hipster-pastiche. This is just my primary problem with R&M past season two, it's a victim of it's own success.
If Rick wasn't a whiny, selfish ass they could be having a lot of fun and he could use his intelligence to prevent the worst of it from happening.
The whole show is basically a demonstration that intelligence is not enough.
Well one he has no hero's journey because hes not a hero.
Two by the end of the season he's effectively been put in his place by the family and has to abide by their rules or get out
And I guess good news for folks who were missing Beth and Jerry time. Beth and Jerry go to Dr. Wong this season finale everybody! It's a Beth and Jerry episode!
Jerry getting kicked around because the universe has basically decided "fuck Jerry" is a consistent snore.
Oh yeah, Jerry doesn’t need to be a schlemiel, that’s not the appeal of seeing him beaten down. Jerry does enough stupid shit on his own, molding plenty of petards to host himself upon.