[NFL] Thread: Season Over - Kansas City And San Francisco Super Bowl; Eventually

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  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Heir wrote: »
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    Hate when it ends on the refs. Seahawks had lots of opportunities, but it leaves such a bad taste to have such a clear fuckup.

    Eh given the yardage at worst packers would have needed an inch or two and where they were on the field they likely would have gone for it on fourth down so I doubt it matters much. One thing to note though is the yellow line on TV is not the official yard marker so the refs were watching the actual yard markers which was much closer to the spot. It was a judgement call but given how shielded the carry was from all angles it was pretty close one way or the other.

    It’s not really worth getting heated over, but I watched all the replays. The side view from the marker had basically the top of his helmet at the marker when he hit the ground. Unless the ball was right in front of his face he was just short.

    And even though I agree the packers probably get the first on the next down, it just irks me when games end on a ref error instead of actual play. Anyways the packers definitely earned that win. Can’t really complain too much.

    I saw a good view online that showed the yellow line and someone had drawn an orange line where the actual markers were. He was over.

    My issue is that the ball was spotted way too far past the first down marker. Look at where the line judge is running out to place the ball:

    oei133wbmail.jpg

    And look where Graham landed:

    z9lwvbayc432.jpg

    They should have changed where the ball was placed and measured. It was definitely not placed in the correct spot. It was iffy about if it was far enough, but the ball placement by that line judge was way wrong.

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Heir wrote: »
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    Hate when it ends on the refs. Seahawks had lots of opportunities, but it leaves such a bad taste to have such a clear fuckup.

    Eh given the yardage at worst packers would have needed an inch or two and where they were on the field they likely would have gone for it on fourth down so I doubt it matters much. One thing to note though is the yellow line on TV is not the official yard marker so the refs were watching the actual yard markers which was much closer to the spot. It was a judgement call but given how shielded the carry was from all angles it was pretty close one way or the other.

    It’s not really worth getting heated over, but I watched all the replays. The side view from the marker had basically the top of his helmet at the marker when he hit the ground. Unless the ball was right in front of his face he was just short.

    And even though I agree the packers probably get the first on the next down, it just irks me when games end on a ref error instead of actual play. Anyways the packers definitely earned that win. Can’t really complain too much.

    I saw a good view online that showed the yellow line and someone had drawn an orange line where the actual markers were. He was over.

    My issue is that the ball was spotted way too far past the first down marker. Look at where the line judge is running out to place the ball:

    oei133wbmail.jpg

    And look where Graham landed:

    z9lwvbayc432.jpg

    They should have changed where the ball was placed and measured. It was definitely not placed in the correct spot. It was iffy about if it was far enough, but the ball placement by that line judge was way wrong.

    The correct spot of that ball still looks like a clean first down. Like uncontroversially.

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  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    edited January 13
    RedTide wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Heir wrote: »
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    Hate when it ends on the refs. Seahawks had lots of opportunities, but it leaves such a bad taste to have such a clear fuckup.

    Eh given the yardage at worst packers would have needed an inch or two and where they were on the field they likely would have gone for it on fourth down so I doubt it matters much. One thing to note though is the yellow line on TV is not the official yard marker so the refs were watching the actual yard markers which was much closer to the spot. It was a judgement call but given how shielded the carry was from all angles it was pretty close one way or the other.

    It’s not really worth getting heated over, but I watched all the replays. The side view from the marker had basically the top of his helmet at the marker when he hit the ground. Unless the ball was right in front of his face he was just short.

    And even though I agree the packers probably get the first on the next down, it just irks me when games end on a ref error instead of actual play. Anyways the packers definitely earned that win. Can’t really complain too much.

    I saw a good view online that showed the yellow line and someone had drawn an orange line where the actual markers were. He was over.

    My issue is that the ball was spotted way too far past the first down marker. Look at where the line judge is running out to place the ball:

    oei133wbmail.jpg

    And look where Graham landed:

    z9lwvbayc432.jpg

    They should have changed where the ball was placed and measured. It was definitely not placed in the correct spot. It was iffy about if it was far enough, but the ball placement by that line judge was way wrong.

    The correct spot of that ball still looks like a clean first down. Like uncontroversially.

    I mean, sure maybe? But at least respot the ball and then measure. That would probably have solved most of the controversy.

    But he was definitely not a half yard past the 36 like Clete Blakeman spotted it at.

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    That is a pretty good pic showing the difference between the actual yard marker and the yellow line. The yellow line is on the opposite side of the yard tic mark from where the actual down marker is.

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  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    That is a pretty good pic showing the difference between the actual yard marker and the yellow line. The yellow line is on the opposite side of the yard tic mark from where the actual down marker is.
    The actual yard marker was about a a quarter yard closer, and that's a pretty big difference in something like this.

    Six
  • SixSix Quite worryingly erotic Registered User regular
    The Seahawks could have won this game but didn’t. Packers deserved it.

    My toes are still sore from being numb for so long and I was getting made fun of in the stands for being a pansy ass New Yorker. Lambeau’s great.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited January 13
    RedTide wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Heir wrote: »
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Jebus314 wrote: »
    Hate when it ends on the refs. Seahawks had lots of opportunities, but it leaves such a bad taste to have such a clear fuckup.

    Eh given the yardage at worst packers would have needed an inch or two and where they were on the field they likely would have gone for it on fourth down so I doubt it matters much. One thing to note though is the yellow line on TV is not the official yard marker so the refs were watching the actual yard markers which was much closer to the spot. It was a judgement call but given how shielded the carry was from all angles it was pretty close one way or the other.

    It’s not really worth getting heated over, but I watched all the replays. The side view from the marker had basically the top of his helmet at the marker when he hit the ground. Unless the ball was right in front of his face he was just short.

    And even though I agree the packers probably get the first on the next down, it just irks me when games end on a ref error instead of actual play. Anyways the packers definitely earned that win. Can’t really complain too much.

    I saw a good view online that showed the yellow line and someone had drawn an orange line where the actual markers were. He was over.

    My issue is that the ball was spotted way too far past the first down marker. Look at where the line judge is running out to place the ball:

    oei133wbmail.jpg

    And look where Graham landed:

    z9lwvbayc432.jpg

    They should have changed where the ball was placed and measured. It was definitely not placed in the correct spot. It was iffy about if it was far enough, but the ball placement by that line judge was way wrong.

    The correct spot of that ball still looks like a clean first down. Like uncontroversially.

    If you look at the video there is a big streak on the grass where his elbow comes down and looking at the marker it looks to be juust i front of it. Which makes it a first down since the ball would have had to be in front of his elbow.

    Well i feel better now about how it ended then.

    Edit: The footage with the divot

    https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Er6D2fGjBBeZf2pZ4jLGUz10pVg=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/19596856/Graham_02.gif

    edited for image size

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Seems like the ball should be at the 36 yard line, first down is just before that. Easy call.

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  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    Is the top of the screen the official marker? If the yellow line is based on the official sticks, it's probably closer to correct than the one we can see in that shot.

    I thought he was short but it's far from egregious and it only would have given Seattle one last shot assuming GB didn't convert 4th an inches.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    lwt1973 wrote: »

    Stefanski was hired because he’s an Ivy League grad like the “hiring manager” DePodesta and is an analytics guy willing to have geeks tell him when to go for it on 4th down

    Stefanski’s offensive scheme sucks - Dalvin Cook somehow was able to convert runs on 2nd and long (a very common situation for the Vices) to positive EPA plays at a non-sustainable rate this year

    Hopefully he can use his Penn learning and excel spreadsheets to make the Browns commit far fewer penalties and get Baker’s head out of his ass

    But chances are we’re talking about yet another Browns HC a year from now

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  • HeirHeir Registered User regular
    edited January 13
    I'm with Davante on this one.
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  • GyralGyral Registered User regular
    Stephanski got hired because he was probably the only one who was perfectly fine to get bent over by ownership.
    As explained by Steve Doerschuk of the Canton Repository, new Browns coach Kevin Stefanski showed during his interview a willingness to yield to certain expectations of part-time chief strategy office Paul DePodesta, including having someone from the analytics group wearing a headset and having access to the coaching staff on game days. Stefanski also agreed to owner Jimmy Haslam’s desire to engage in hours-long meetings with his head coach the day after games.

    Dustin Fox of 92.3 The Fan in Cleveland added that the front office expects the head coach to “turn in game plans to the owner and analytics department by Friday, and to attend an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan.”

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  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    Gyral wrote: »
    Stephanski got hired because he was probably the only one who was perfectly fine to get bent over by ownership.
    As explained by Steve Doerschuk of the Canton Repository, new Browns coach Kevin Stefanski showed during his interview a willingness to yield to certain expectations of part-time chief strategy office Paul DePodesta, including having someone from the analytics group wearing a headset and having access to the coaching staff on game days. Stefanski also agreed to owner Jimmy Haslam’s desire to engage in hours-long meetings with his head coach the day after games.

    Dustin Fox of 92.3 The Fan in Cleveland added that the front office expects the head coach to “turn in game plans to the owner and analytics department by Friday, and to attend an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan.”

    You know I always hear about ownership meddling in the running of franchises on the field, but this is like next level stuff. I don't think even Jerry Jones is quite that blatant.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    So

    Haslem hasn’t been a “medler” before (other than the Manziel pick)- he’s just been both extraordinarily bad at hiring and bad at culture/organization (these are problems we saw with his Flying J/FBI thing, too)

    But I guess when you’re so shitty you need to do something different, and “git gud” isn’t an option for this knucklehead, so neurosis and paranoia win out in the form of micro-managing. This is sure to end well.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I mean the obvious answer is hire someone good to run the franchise while your name gets stamped on the checks, but...

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  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    I mean the obvious answer is hire someone good to run the franchise while your name gets stamped on the checks, but...

    The Browns hired Belichick back in the day. Of course when he was finished there, the team both did not exist and then proceeded to get much better at the same time.

    What I am saying is that this strategy doesn’t work in Cleveland. Zany is probably their only option.

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    I mean the obvious answer is hire someone good to run the franchise while your name gets stamped on the checks, but...

    I thought we weren't talking about Jerry Jones.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    Gyral wrote: »
    Stephanski got hired because he was probably the only one who was perfectly fine to get bent over by ownership.
    As explained by Steve Doerschuk of the Canton Repository, new Browns coach Kevin Stefanski showed during his interview a willingness to yield to certain expectations of part-time chief strategy office Paul DePodesta, including having someone from the analytics group wearing a headset and having access to the coaching staff on game days. Stefanski also agreed to owner Jimmy Haslam’s desire to engage in hours-long meetings with his head coach the day after games.

    Dustin Fox of 92.3 The Fan in Cleveland added that the front office expects the head coach to “turn in game plans to the owner and analytics department by Friday, and to attend an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan.”

    You know I always hear about ownership meddling in the running of franchises on the field, but this is like next level stuff. I don't think even Jerry Jones is quite that blatant.

    At least Jerrah managed to create success. Granted, he's been coasting on his near immediate 3 Superbowls for a quarter of a century now, but I can understand his ego thinking he can do it again.

    What's Haslam done to think he's got that cache? 8 consecutive losing seasons (including a 3 year 4-44 period, capped off with the Imperfect Season). And would have finished last in the Division every year, if not for the Bengals slow motion self destruction over the past 17 months.

    There's no way this works out. Either Stefanski is going to be a Haslam bootlick, and not going to be respected, or he's going to rebel and this is going to play out in the media, and the franchise melts down due to "Browns in disarray!".

    It's truly amazing that in a league that's got so much parity, that a franchise can be this consistently bad at things. You'ld think that occasionally, they'd fluke into doing something good.

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  • knitdanknitdan Oh no Too much hornyRegistered User regular
    Man I remember the beginning of the season when everyone from Cleveland was predicting a SB run. And then they got hit with the grim reality that they are still the Browns no matter how excited everyone got about a few offseason pickups.

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  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited January 14
    Yeah, I feel like this just conclusively shows they're never going to get away from the past unless the entire organization is jettisoned. The NFL should find new a owner for the Browns who'll stay out of the HC & GM's way (or hell, set up something like Green Bay), and when Belichick or Reid retires, hire them as a consultant for a few years to oversee a complete restructuring of the organization. That's never gonna happen, but I feel like it would take that level of intervention.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited January 14
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Yeah, I feel like this just conclusively shows they're never going to get away from the past unless the entire organization is jettisoned. The NFL should find new a owner for the Browns who'll stay out of the HC & GM's way (or hell, set up something like Green Bay), and when Belichick or Reid retires, hire them as a consultant for a few years to oversee a complete restructuring of the organization. That's never gonna happen, but I feel like it would take that level of intervention.

    They tried this with Mike Holmgren

    I think Holmgren was the first person Haslem fired, actually...

    Edit: yep! Haslem took ownership on 10/12/12 and fired Holmgren on 10/16/12

    In looking this up I also learned that Flying J was a family business he inherited from his father and only through luck hasn’t bankrupted it (though he still got them investigated by the FBI)

    Fucking ban billionaires

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  • marajimaraji Registered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Yeah, I feel like this just conclusively shows they're never going to get away from the past unless the entire organization is jettisoned. The NFL should find new a owner for the Browns who'll stay out of the HC & GM's way (or hell, set up something like Green Bay), and when Belichick or Reid retires, hire them as a consultant for a few years to oversee a complete restructuring of the organization. That's never gonna happen, but I feel like it would take that level of intervention.
    As someone who grew up near Cleveland, Green Bay’s ownership structure has had a certain sort of appeal since the mid 90’s.

    Haslem sounds like he is on the same path as Snyder.

  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    maraji wrote: »
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Yeah, I feel like this just conclusively shows they're never going to get away from the past unless the entire organization is jettisoned. The NFL should find new a owner for the Browns who'll stay out of the HC & GM's way (or hell, set up something like Green Bay), and when Belichick or Reid retires, hire them as a consultant for a few years to oversee a complete restructuring of the organization. That's never gonna happen, but I feel like it would take that level of intervention.
    As someone who grew up near Cleveland, Green Bay’s ownership structure has had a certain sort of appeal since the mid 90’s.

    Haslem sounds like he is on the same path as Snyder.

    If it can work in as tiny market as green bay and be successful there is a reason that the other owners freak out whenever its brought up and have bylaws passed to prevent another team from doing it green bay being grandfathered in. Shit they would force green bay to get a "real owner" if they could figure out a way to make money doing it but if they sell the packers I believe all the proceeds go to the JC's and the shriners so nobody has any real financial incentive to bother.

  • Sir LandsharkSir Landshark resting shark face Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    Every stadium deal should come with a % ownership until eventually cities have enough stake to buy out the nfl team

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Giants stole Miami's defensive coordinator

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Giants stole Miami's defensive coordinator

    Did we steal your lunch or did we merely swipe a paper bag full of dogshit?

    I'm asking sincerely, I have no idea what your defense looked like this year

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    It wasn’t good

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    Giants stole Miami's defensive coordinator

    Did we steal your lunch or did we merely swipe a paper bag full of dogshit?

    I'm asking sincerely, I have no idea what your defense looked like this year

    I don't think you can take a whole lot from this season, as it was pretty crazy and we somehow overachieved and might have cost us a qb in the draft, but we kept the patriots from the #2.seed when we beat them!

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  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    I want to assign most credit to Flores and Fitz but any coach on that staff has to look damn good at the moment

    At least compared to whatever deflated balloon the Giants put forth

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    RedTide wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    Giants stole Miami's defensive coordinator

    Did we steal your lunch or did we merely swipe a paper bag full of dogshit?

    I'm asking sincerely, I have no idea what your defense looked like this year

    I don't think you can take a whole lot from this season, as it was pretty crazy and we somehow overachieved and might have cost us a qb in the draft, but we kept the patriots from the #2.seed when we beat them!

    For that, Miami should get a compensatory #0 First Rounder, just for making the AFC interesting. Especially after the Ravens shit the bed.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Honestly not shocked by the Kuechly news. Huge fan of his work, but his last two concussions were fucking terrible to watch. So him getting out before something life-changing happened, and with a decent chunk of change (even losing the last two years of his contract, he's made $30+M), is a good end to a career.

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  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    Kuechly was the guy who got concussed and started bawling uncontrollably on TV as he was carted off the field, right? Are you sure something life changing hasn’t already happened?

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited January 15
    quovadis13 wrote: »
    Kuechly was the guy who got concussed and started bawling uncontrollably on TV as he was carted off the field, right? Are you sure something life changing hasn’t already happened?

    Watching that announcement vid of his I was noticing the left side of his mouth looked a bit off compared to interviews in the early days of his career. Having watched my dad go through it (not from concussions but other neurological issues) I'd say there's a decent chance Luke might have experienced some Bell's Palsy.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    quovadis13 wrote: »
    Kuechly was the guy who got concussed and started bawling uncontrollably on TV as he was carted off the field, right? Are you sure something life changing hasn’t already happened?

    Yes, he was the one weeping uncontrollably. There was another incident not as bad, but it was still pretty uncomfortable.

    As BlackDragon mentioned, quite possibly. I mean, given he's been playing for 8 years, and being pretty gung-ho during that time, so we don't know what long term effects he's going to have, even if he seemed quite fine. CTE doesn't always manifest early.

    By life changing, I was more meaning something immediate, rather than the slower deterioration of players for our amusement. I'm not sure I feel comfortable watching knowing the long term effects, but it is why I crack the shits when people argue that the players are overpaid, or for demanding teams pay them extensive contracts. Of the two entities involved, the players or the team/owner, I know where I'd rather the lion's share of profits go.

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  • IlpalaIlpala Just this guy, y'know Texas booniesRegistered User regular
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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Ilpala wrote: »

    If Head Coach 09 is anything to go by, then yes. Hire him as OC.

    But this is real life. And in real life, NFL teams are desperate to retread failed coaches and he will clap his way into the next open position.

    The real fun will be the rampant speculation of Garrett taking over in New York as soon as they start playing like shit. (First game, second play.)

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  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    I said this in the SE NFL thread and I'll say it here.

    Professional sports coach is one of the only professions that rival cops in the ability to catastrophically fail and then immediately get hired to do the same thing one state over.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    I said this in the SE NFL thread and I'll say it here.

    Professional sports coach is one of the only professions that rival cops in the ability to catastrophically fail and then immediately get hired to do the same thing one state over.

    Political pundit you don't even have to change states.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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