[FFXIV]: Shadowsomething! 5.3 on 8/11! Vastly expanded free trial content!

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Viera
    It's so stupid!

    BahamutZERO.gif
    destroyah87turtleantBucketman
  • H0b0manH0b0man Registered User regular
    Au'ra
    This is what the second time it's been brought back? They might as well just make it a permanent thing like the monster hunter fight.

    FFXIV: Agran Trask
  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    That Yokai Medallium thing has been a permanent part of my key items inventory for over three years now. I see it sitting there doing nothing all the time when turning in dailies.

    H0b0manCaedwyrturtleant
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Whelp, murdered Garuda. I'm starting to think this guy in the black robe is up to something.

    destroyah87DonnictonPolaritieSkeithBucketmanpainfulPleasance
  • rhylithrhylith Registered User regular
    Hyur
    Quid wrote: »
    Whelp, murdered Garuda. I'm starting to think this guy in the black robe is up to something.

    NOW FALL
    *guitars*

    Rhylith - <Shambler Milk> Horde Chogall
    destroyah87DonnictonMadicanTcheldorSkeithBucketmanAlexandier
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Au'ra
    Oblivion (song name) is better, but that's a ways out from Garuda.

    Steam: Polaritie
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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Viera
    I didn't really appreciate many of the ARR primals' themes until recently, for reasons

    BahamutZERO on
    BahamutZERO.gif
    Bucketman
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Au'ra
    Just something stupid I had to make when I saw the holiday Chocobo art on the Square web site after doing the Starlight Festival story.

    I call it "when you're finally allowed to sing in the Starlight Festival".

    aEtCNMM.gif

    Donnicton on
    turtleantBahamutZEROCrippl3Midnite
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Roegadyn
    Using a parser to shame someone on a public stream?

    That's a paddlin' (and suspension):
    The streamer Arthars was suspended from the game on a stream due to harassing another player due to damage numbers. Damage meters are not present in the game itself, but applications for parsing damage are well-known in the community.

    You can’t watch the video at this point, as it has been taken down at the request of Square-Enix, but the GM handling the case specifically teleported his character to Mordion Gaol (the game’s holding area for people being punished) and explained the rationale behind the suspension. Some debate has been held about the validity of the ban and its connection to parsers, but many fans have pointed out that using these parsing tools in connection with his public profile led to a situation in which he was at once violating the rules of the game and making the game’s playerbase look worse to observers.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
    BloodsheedBucketmanMysstStiltsBahamutZEROturtleantMidniteAlexandierpainfulPleasance
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Au'ra
    That's been the stance for a while. They look the other way on the use of parsers and such, as long as you're not going after other players.

    Totally fine to use it to compare your own performance and all.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
    destroyah87BucketmanSkeithStiltsDonnicton
  • rhylithrhylith Registered User regular
    Hyur
    Fuck that guy.

    The only people you should be parsing is your own raid group for advice and strategizing.

    I essentially completely stopped running pugs in wow because of how toxic the experience was. I’ve been pleasantly surprised with how friendly most groups have been in FF so far. Though there’s been one or two unfortunate people who have been jerks but that has been very much the exception, not the rule. As I get closer and closer to endgame I’m starting to get real worried about this kind of thing, especially since I’m still learning a lot of the encounters and stuff. I still haven’t done any of the 8 man raids through the duty finder because of it.

    Rhylith - <Shambler Milk> Horde Chogall
    QuidDesert LeviathanBucketmanBahamutZEROturtleantMidnite
  • ZayZay yes i am zay Registered User regular
    That’s burying the lede extremely hard. The dude wasn’t banned for saying someone in his group had bad dps. The BLM said he had bad dps, and he went on a fucking tilt about it, ranting on his stream about how much the BLM sucked. He also didn’t say anything in game.

    It’s also fucking insane that you can get banned for saying someone has bad dps. The difficulty of all the hard content in the game is in large part because they’re designed around tight dps checks. Meters are essential to identifying why your group might not be capable of clearing

    As an aside, non-savage raids are very easy and don’t have enrage timers so don't worry about queueing them

  • H0b0manH0b0man Registered User regular
    Au'ra
    The rule typically is you won't be banned for using parsers, but if you start harassing people over their dps numbers then they will suspend/ban you if it gets reported. I appreciate it having played games like WoW where things like parsers and gear score have made even easy pug content toxic af.

    If you're doing content hard enough to deal with a tight dps check then you're most likely going to be in a static. Typically a savage or ultimate static isn't going to report somebody for using a parser since, like you said, seeing not just everybody's dps, but using the parser to figure out rotation issues, can be key to clearing stuff.

    Basically if you're in a pug don't say shit to other people if their dps is a bit low. Feel free to discuss whatever with your static. If your static reports you then that group has bigger issues than its dps.

    FFXIV: Agran Trask
    destroyah87QuidStiltsturtleantDonnictonMidniteBloodsheed
  • ZayZay yes i am zay Registered User regular
    I’ve wiped to hadesex because of a BLM doing a third of my dps on RDM. It doesn’t matter if you can do mechanics if you can’t do them while making numbers, and it’s ridiculous to expect people to carry you without being able to say “hey X isn’t doing enough dps we can’t clear this check”

  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    On the one hand, meters are "essential" for progression content in the game. On the other hand,
    the ToS agreement for FFXIV clearly spells out that third-party software such as the aforementioned damage parsing tools is prohibited and is grounds for having your account suspended or terminated.
    I just don't like the existence of this fuzzy area where people are doing specifically prohibited things and doing it openly with no consequence, but if they step an inch further into the fuzz zone they're nuked on the charge of doing that thing that everyone else is unofficially allowed to do but not officially allowed to do.

  • destroyah87destroyah87 Registered User regular
    I use a lot of fantasias
    It's clear that the part that got the streamer hit was for mocking the other player in a public forum (i.e. the twitch stream.)

    Putting in party chat "hey, we don't have enough raid dps to clear the enrage" once it's gotten to that point once or twice is very different than putting a person on blast for lagging in damage output. From there it's open to look at causes or suggest points of improvement, either in individual rotations or group strategy.
    SabreMau wrote: »
    On the one hand, meters are "essential" for progression content in the game. On the other hand,
    the ToS agreement for FFXIV clearly spells out that third-party software such as the aforementioned damage parsing tools is prohibited and is grounds for having your account suspended or terminated.
    I just don't like the existence of this fuzzy area where people are doing specifically prohibited things and doing it openly with no consequence, but if they step an inch further into the fuzz zone they're nuked on the charge of doing that thing that everyone else is unofficially allowed to do but not officially allowed to do.

    I do agree, I think I'd prefer to see the stance changed to "parsers are ok, but don't use them to mock others in public channels." which seems like it'd be just making the current enforcement stance official policy.

    Heck, now that I'm doing savage content I've been running a parser for the last 2-3 weeks. I would never use it to shame a player in any random content. At the most, it's a comment to my FC mates that are in the content with me or a throw-away comment about how I, as tank, did more damage/dps than random dps. Even that I do understand I need to watch how far I go, because I don't ever want to be a toxic player in small group content. I adore the welcoming nature of the FF14 community too much to be pointlessly mean to people. My parser is a personal tool to see how I'm doing, not a cudgel to beat others with.

    I want to share this game I enjoy with anyone, not wall it off and jealousy gatekeep.

    steam_sig.png
    Quid
  • BucketmanBucketman Call me SkraggRegistered User regular
    Cactuar
    You read it here folks, Zay has a hard time with hadsex. He just can't get that one down.

  • ZayZay yes i am zay Registered User regular
    I’ve helped probably 20+ people from my FC get clears on hadesex. Of that group, a few of the players were so bad, I never want to group with them again. We were able to carry them because we had some dps way outgearing the content. I then saw one of these bad dps join a PF group and get kicked for bad dps because the group was failing the phase 1 dps check. They were indignant and said they were reporting the leader. This is a ridiculous scenario, they were basically forcing a group of randos to carry them, and then got mad because they couldn’t. If the game is going to be designed around having dps checks in the end game, it is nonsense to get in trouble for pointing out when someone is performing so poorly they are making you wipe.

  • SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    sounds like the problem isn't gettin it down so much as it is gettin it up!

    SYhhzZG.jpg?2?8605
    Crippl3Bucketman
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Viera
    sounds like the problem isn't gettin it down so much as it is gettin it up!

    ooh wah ah ah ah

    BahamutZERO.gif
    Crippl3
  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Miqo'te
    I parse PUGs to (a) judge myself and (b) to know whether or not I'm wasting my time in a group. I've seen plenty of people with bad DPS but it was usually in groups that weren't going to clear anyways because of people dying. I've seen callouts happen, but they never ended in anything other than awkward silence followed by another pull or the group disbanding.

    Now, I PUGed my way through all of E1-4S but it was after 460 crafted/Nier/augmented Deepshadow stuff came out, so even the people learning fights were decently geared. If I was PUGing at launch I guess that would make meters more important but uh... that sounds like a nightmare.

  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Miqo'te
    It's clear that the part that got the streamer hit was for mocking the other player in a public forum (i.e. the twitch stream.)

    Putting in party chat "hey, we don't have enough raid dps to clear the enrage" once it's gotten to that point once or twice is very different than putting a person on blast for lagging in damage output. From there it's open to look at causes or suggest points of improvement, either in individual rotations or group strategy.
    SabreMau wrote: »
    On the one hand, meters are "essential" for progression content in the game. On the other hand,
    the ToS agreement for FFXIV clearly spells out that third-party software such as the aforementioned damage parsing tools is prohibited and is grounds for having your account suspended or terminated.
    I just don't like the existence of this fuzzy area where people are doing specifically prohibited things and doing it openly with no consequence, but if they step an inch further into the fuzz zone they're nuked on the charge of doing that thing that everyone else is unofficially allowed to do but not officially allowed to do.

    I do agree, I think I'd prefer to see the stance changed to "parsers are ok, but don't use them to mock others in public channels." which seems like it'd be just making the current enforcement stance official policy.

    Heck, now that I'm doing savage content I've been running a parser for the last 2-3 weeks. I would never use it to shame a player in any random content. At the most, it's a comment to my FC mates that are in the content with me or a throw-away comment about how I, as tank, did more damage/dps than random dps. Even that I do understand I need to watch how far I go, because I don't ever want to be a toxic player in small group content. I adore the welcoming nature of the FF14 community too much to be pointlessly mean to people. My parser is a personal tool to see how I'm doing, not a cudgel to beat others with.

    I want to share this game I enjoy with anyone, not wall it off and jealousy gatekeep.

    Yeah, I run a parser all the time because it gives me some useful feedback, both personal and for the rest of the group. When doing dungeons, knowing that the group is putting out high dps, or that the healer is dpsing heavily while managing high HPS throughput are both useful tools to help me calibrate my playstyle. If I know that one of the DPS is single targeting on trash packs, then I'll expect things to take longer to die and therefore play more defensively since I know that I'll likely be running out of cooldowns. I might make a comment along the lines of "Hey WHM healer, I notice you struggling a bit to keep up, would you object to any suggestions that could help?" and then point out that Holy x3 on each pull is basically 7 seconds of Hallowed Ground and an extremely powerful heal tool. Or ask a DPS if they'd mind some suggestions to help them blow things up faster.

    It's also helpful for me when playing a healer in an 8/24 man because I can see if the co-healer is sitting at 80%+ overheal and therefore if I need to heal at all outside of specific mechanics. For single player stuff, it lets me see what my overheal is currently and when I'm leaning on the Medica II crutch too much.

    Plus, after current content, I also like to upload my logs to FFXIV logs and then run them through XIVAnalysis to see what things I need to work on. This is really helpful for when learning a new class that I don't have the muscle memory down solid yet.

    Caedwyr on
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    I am pretty sure I'm the single most original person in naming my Chocobo Kweh.

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Au'ra
    Quid wrote: »
    I am pretty sure I'm the single most original person in naming my Chocobo Kweh.

    Wark!

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    TcheldorBucketman
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Viera
    the starlight celebration event is cute

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Roegadyn
    It's clear that the part that got the streamer hit was for mocking the other player in a public forum (i.e. the twitch stream.)

    Putting in party chat "hey, we don't have enough raid dps to clear the enrage" once it's gotten to that point once or twice is very different than putting a person on blast for lagging in damage output. From there it's open to look at causes or suggest points of improvement, either in individual rotations or group strategy.
    SabreMau wrote: »
    On the one hand, meters are "essential" for progression content in the game. On the other hand,
    the ToS agreement for FFXIV clearly spells out that third-party software such as the aforementioned damage parsing tools is prohibited and is grounds for having your account suspended or terminated.
    I just don't like the existence of this fuzzy area where people are doing specifically prohibited things and doing it openly with no consequence, but if they step an inch further into the fuzz zone they're nuked on the charge of doing that thing that everyone else is unofficially allowed to do but not officially allowed to do.

    I do agree, I think I'd prefer to see the stance changed to "parsers are ok, but don't use them to mock others in public channels." which seems like it'd be just making the current enforcement stance official policy.

    Heck, now that I'm doing savage content I've been running a parser for the last 2-3 weeks. I would never use it to shame a player in any random content. At the most, it's a comment to my FC mates that are in the content with me or a throw-away comment about how I, as tank, did more damage/dps than random dps. Even that I do understand I need to watch how far I go, because I don't ever want to be a toxic player in small group content. I adore the welcoming nature of the FF14 community too much to be pointlessly mean to people. My parser is a personal tool to see how I'm doing, not a cudgel to beat others with.

    I want to share this game I enjoy with anyone, not wall it off and jealousy gatekeep.

    I think they REALLY don't want to cede any part of this argument, because 'what is considered mockery' is an even deeper quagmire for them. Is exclaiming 'we're booting you because your DPS is too low to meet the checks' considered mockery? I think a lot of the playerbase would say yes. You could do it via private message, but initiating a vote kick is public, and requires a popular vote, so a lot of players would find even that to be demeaning. And they might be right! As someone who has both been left out of, and had to do the leaving, curating any kind of group in an MMO sucks BAD for everyone involved. Literally nothing about it is good, and makes people feel terrible. And I don’t really trust SE to determine the line of what is and isn’t acceptable behavior, I guess.

    destroyah87
  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    Miqo'te
    On the one hand, banning someone for talking about parses on stream feels pretty eh, especially with how consistent SE has been with the "we don't care about ACT as long as you don't use it to shit talk people in game."

    On the other hand, Arthas is a colossal fucking jackass who has built most of his reputation on twitch streamed rage explosions (though I'm not gonna lie, the one where he freaks out cause a Samurai in his O12S party is wearing Yokai Watch gear was pretty hilarious). Even if, as I suspect, most of it is twitch acting to drive views, I can't really be bothered that he got hit like this.

    On the other, other hand, please do more than 7k DPS on BLM if you are going to take it into savage/ex content.

    destroyah87
  • Kevin CristKevin Crist I make the devil hit his knees and say the 'our father'Registered User regular
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Au'ra
    The game lets you check if your dps clears a safe threshold for hard content, so theres no excuse for going in without being able to hit hard enough on a training dummy.

    But ultimately the line they're drawing is the only possible bright line on the issue I feel.

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Roegadyn
    Polaritie wrote: »
    The game lets you check if your dps clears a safe threshold for hard content, so theres no excuse for going in without being able to hit hard enough on a training dummy.

    But ultimately the line they're drawing is the only possible bright line on the issue I feel.

    It doesn’t really. Their Earth Wind and Fire training grounds is just a training dummy so I’ve found it pretty useless.

  • TcheldorTcheldor Registered User regular
    Miqo'te
    Javen wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    The game lets you check if your dps clears a safe threshold for hard content, so theres no excuse for going in without being able to hit hard enough on a training dummy.

    But ultimately the line they're drawing is the only possible bright line on the issue I feel.

    It doesn’t really. Their Earth Wind and Fire training grounds is just a training dummy so I’ve found it pretty useless.

    it tells you if you have the base rotation down. It doesn't tell you if you can do it while mechanics are going on.

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    destroyah87
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Au'ra
    It's enough to know that your gear and rotation are good enough, which is the point. If you can't clear that you're going to have a very hard time contributing in the actual fight (although technically they're tuned more than the actual minimum dps/person)

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    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
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    Caedwyrturtleant
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Viera
    they're a "are you hypothetically geared enough for this fight" test basically

    BahamutZERO on
    BahamutZERO.gif
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Au'ra
    The Wind-Up Dulia-Chai that will come with the Shadowbringers artbook in 2020.

    e7e20b1yzj541.png

    ThatDudeOverThereturtleantStiltsSCREECH OF THE FARGElldrenAlexandierMidniteBucketman
  • SabreMauSabreMau ネトゲしよう 판다리아Registered User regular
    the starlight celebration event is cute

    BahamutZEROPolaritieDesert LeviathanturtleantDonnictonCaedwyrSkeithThatDudeOverThereBucketman
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Viera
    I'm dying oh my god

    BahamutZERO.gif
    turtleantTransporterBucketman
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Turns out what I thought was Garuda was just some jerk dragon.

    Now I'm going to murder Garuda.

    BahamutZERODonnictonThatDudeOverTherePolaritieSkeithBucketmanTamerBill
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    That was a really big bird

    ThatDudeOverThereBucketman
  • turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    Roegadyn
    I both learned that small houses are significantly cheaper than I thought and also was reminded how much I hate the housing system

    X22wmuF.jpg
    BahamutZERODonnictonMidnite
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