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[Half-Life] Black Mesa: Definitive Edition Out Now!

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Posts

  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Installing Facebook hardware in your home is simply inviting problems, though. Is valve planning any new vr headsets for this game?

    They just came out with the Index

    539€ for just the headset without controllers, or 1079€ for the full set is a very very steep price though.

    Yup!

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    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
    autono-wally, erotibot300
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Suds wrote: »
    For anyone that has a Quest (like me) you can now play Half-Life 1 in VR with full 6DOF and tracked movement.

    https://www.lambda1vr.com/

    I'll be going through this in preparation of Half-Half-Life 3

    That's pretty cool. I wonder if they can do this with HL2 (and also that they get it working on Vive)

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    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Dang the Index controllers only work on the Index and the Vive/Vive Pro. Ah well the Oculus Rift controllers will work well enough for me.... Those gloves just look fun.

  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    I haven’t tried it, but there’s a page that claims the Knuckles can work on the Rift with some extra steps involved.

    If someone has experience with how easy or hard this is, that’d be great, but a generic google search led me to believe it was doable.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
    urahonky
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    What's interesting to me is Valve's timing. The company looks to have produced an absolutely fantastic, system-selling VR experience... a year or so after all other AAA developers (except for Sony) and the general market has given up on VR. This could be the thing that really impresses people and gets people to really give the platform a chance. Or it could be scooped up by the Valve faithful but make nary a ripple in VR adoption.

    I'm kind of leaning toward the latter -- people have had many opportunities to be impressed by VR already, yet it hasn't taken off. Yes, I know that you, personally, didn't mind spending the money on the hardware and upgrades and stuff. But don't forget -- the general market ain't us. And speaking for myself, I'm having trouble justifying dragging my PSVR out of the closet. It's just too much of a commitment and hassle compared to just picking up a controller and going, especially with other people in the house. And yes, I was absolutely blown away by Astro Bot and Tetris Effect. Anecdotally, the local video game convention has stayed the same size over the years, but VR stuff there has gone from a big presence to absolutely nothing this year.

    Of course, I could always be wrong. It's going to be interesting to see what kind of effect this game will have, if nothing else.

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
    Zilla360
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    No one's gonna spend 1000€+ for a single game. I suspected valve was planning a vr game, but I also hoped they had a way to make it go big, with great affordable hardware.

    1000€ additional hardware for an at least 1000€ gaming PC ain't it, chief.

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    No one's asking anyone to spend $1k on a single game. There are a ton of great VR games out there. Head over to the VR thread and ask around if you want a list of games.

    bowenTrajan45Zilla360Dhalphir
  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    Some quotes from an interview with the developers:
    “Back in 2016 when we started this, Half-Life 3 was a terrifyingly daunting prospect,” Walker admitted. “To some extent, VR was a way we could fool ourselves into believing we had a way to do this. By starting with VR and trying to think about Half-Life and how it worked with it, and play-testing those things, you’re immediately in a space where we have something we understand well — Half-Life’s core gameplay — and a new platform with new prospects with new possibilities, and we can do that translation, and we can watch people play it.

    “It was easy to not think about the big picture — ‘We’re making Half-Life 3!’ — and just focus on what people enjoy and make forward progress,” Walker added.

    Casali said that in order to bring Half-Life: Alyx to the PC as a flat-screen game, “we would have to map an entire section of the keyboard, dedicated just to interacting with doors.” He went on describe action in which a player may partially open a door, peek through it, shut it before it fully opens, or stick a weapon through the crack and fire it, or even drop a grenade and slam the door shut. All of that is carried out in an intuitive way in virtual reality, Casali noted.

    “You end up watering down the VR experience, to do both at the same time,” added David Spreyer. “And the process was really, ‘What can we do with these controllers and the HMD?’ As we explored that idea, it just drove us into a place where the idea became essentially VR, rather than just kind of superficially VR.”

    I'm really intrigued to see how well the granularity works. Can they get rid of that sort of floating feeling with the virtual hands you see with games in the past? You can see the hand grip the bucket when she moves it which is a good sign.

    Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
    Doodmann
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    No one's asking anyone to spend $1k on a single game. There are a ton of great VR games out there. Head over to the VR thread and ask around if you want a list of games.

    But that's what a killer app is supposed to do, convince you to buy a system for it. Of course there's other games, but none of those have made me want to spend that money either, especially with a backlog of great non-vr games many people still have.

    So a system seller needs to sell the system. It does that via a combination of being great, and an affordable price.

    I can believe the first part, the game might be great!

    But I spend around 375€ on gaming hardware per year, if I spread the money I spend on my pc over the time I'm gonna use it (1500€ over 4 years, in my example)

    I'd have to justify spending the additional money for a headset, and I seriously doubt anyone will want to use a current day headset in 3 years.

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
  • SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    No one's gonna spend 1000€+ for a single game.

    Well... I mean, I kind of did. I upgraded from a Vive to an Index so I could read gauges more easily in DCS World.

    5gsowHm.png
    BloodySlothSatsumomoApogeeElvenshae
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Syngyne wrote: »
    No one's gonna spend 1000€+ for a single game.

    Well... I mean, I kind of did. I upgraded from a Vive to an Index so I could read gauges more easily in DCS World.

    Flight Sim players are crazy, though

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
    SyphonBlueSyngyneSmokeStacksZilla360DarkPrimusDoodmannSatsumomoSorceFencingsaxApogeeElvenshaenever die
  • DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist disgusted Registered User regular
    It reminds me of the debate between Laserdiscs and VHS back in the day. Enthusiasts an hobbyists always evangelized the superiority of the laser disks but they never really took off with the general public. It wasn't until the whole industry was upended with DVDs that people finally switched from VHS.

    Maybe there's some groundbreaking VR tech around the corner that will inspire the masses, but for now it's still a niche market.

    Trajan45SyphonBluecloudeagleautono-wally, erotibot300Zilla360yossarian_livesCanadianWolverine
  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    Forar wrote: »
    I haven’t tried it, but there’s a page that claims the Knuckles can work on the Rift with some extra steps involved.

    If someone has experience with how easy or hard this is, that’d be great, but a generic google search led me to believe it was doable.

    Also if it's less the finger tracking you like and more the "hands free" experience, there are a host of accessories you can buy on ebay that'll let you do this with the Rift/Quest controllers.

    And in terms of VR taking off, it's slowly getting there: https://qz.com/1739575/strong-oculus-quest-sales-boost-facebooks-non-advertising-revenue/

    And with newer hardware, like the Quest, comes the ease of access. I play a game of Beat Saber or Pistol Whip pretty much daily and that's largely because I can just pop the headset on, press a button and I'm there, resuming pretty much where I left off.

    PC VR is now (for some hardware) a headset connected by a single wire, with little to no setup. It's a far cry from the rats nest of wires that make up earlier hardware (and I still do love my PSVR but it IS a hassle).

    Things are getting there, I'm honestly surprised at the massive opposition VR often faces, and the games are going from strength to strength. It's literally the gaming I dreamed of as a kid.

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    To build on some of the points made this page, just because we aren't at the end point now, doesn't mean it's impossible to reach.

    Will HL:A be the killer game that brings a dramatic influx of people into the genre, which in turn will attract more development resources, which will in turn make that hardware adoption an ever better return on investment? No idea! But it's not impossible.

    The 15%'ish off that we're seeing for Black Friday aren't going to light the world aflame in an inferno of purchases, but it is getting more affordable.

    I mean, sure, above and beyond my caution around buying a lot of hardware and peripherals, I'd be very wary of getting a VR rig used online (obviously it'd be different from a friend), but as the technology advances, more headsets/controllers will become available, which opens up other opportunities that don't necessarily require buying in at the Full Valve Index pricing.

    No, it's not the tidal wave of users that will bring all the big names to the table with full Triple A money behind the experience, but it could be a step on the path.

    I was one of those people who saw the original Oculus Kickstarter and noped right out. Even where it impressed me, I figured it would just be another flash in the pan fad. I was wrong.

    Maybe HL:A will be THE spark, maybe it will be A spark. I have faith in Valve (some may argue this is misplaced) to produce an engaging and enjoyable experience. Would I be happy buying a full Index for 10'ish hours of gameplay and never touching it again? No. But would I be happy buying a Rift or Quest for literally 1/3 the price, having hopefully 80-90% of the same experience, and hopefully putting in roughly a billion hours into Beat Saber? I'm hoping that is the case. And other games I'm sure, but like with my point about HZD and Rock Band, sometimes there just needs to be that one game that finally draws people in, and unlike Rock Band, this peripheral has more uses (crazy speedrunners defeating other games on RB hardware aside).

    I totally empathize with it being too pricey still, and my only answer is that I hope with interest comes improvements to the tech that also manage to bring the price down, that an influx in users across a broad spectrum of life experiences incentivizes companies to look at ever more affordable options. Okay, so $350 US is steep to get in, but what if it manages to get down to $300 next year? $250?

    To contrast with cell phones, with broad enough interest, budget options become more appealing to produce. The top of the line will always have absurdly expensive editions beyond the reach of 99.9%+ of the people in the world, but that doesn't mean options won't ever be available.

    At least, that's my hope.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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  • Big ClassyBig Classy Registered User regular
    Not gonna lie, I'm super hyped for this. The Rift has been sitting there doing nothing for too long. Enough freeloading, ya little shit!

    urahonkyTrajan45SmokeStacksElvenshae
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    The real problem is that Valve's timing sucks. The best time to release this game would have been two years ago or earlier, to be at least within the ballpark of the release of these new VR platforms. The instant Valve knew they were committing to VR, they should have fast-tracked this game's production. That way they could have shown the world just how fun VR could be while the world's attention was focused on the re-emergence of VR. Unfortunately, by now the world's attention, big-name developer attention, and even most of the attention of enthusiast publications has long since drifted away.

    For better and worse, Valve gives nary a shit about market trends.

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  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    Tried a Vive a year or two ago, totally underwhelmed. Waggle with a higher price / system entry barrier.

    Maybe porn is the killer app VR needs.

    Simply don't believe you. There is no way you can have tried a system that puts you IN a game and compare it to pointing a waggle stick at a flat TV screen with a straight face, unless you're being deliberately intellectually dishonest.

    Yeah bro....I bought a Vive for $150 off a friend and still feel ripped off. I haven't even turned it on in 5 months. There's simply nothing to really play. It's a bunch of better looking mobile or Kinect games: fun for an hour or two, nothing lasting. Especially when you have to put something over your head, shut yourself off from the world, manage all those wires.... Not to mention the nausea. I tried playing No Man's Sky but couldn't play it for longer than half an hour without vomiting all over my couch.

    It's nice that you enjoy it, but this is not the future, especially when for most people, it's going to cost $600 plus whatever their PC cost. You talk about anti-VR people making you laugh, but you VR evangelists are just as bad: completely unable to understand why people may not like or buy into it, coming in here to say such condescending stuff as "I understand life is tough in different ways for people". Like fucking wow dude. Get over yourself. Surprise, people don't want to spend $1000 on a PC then another $600+ on a VR machine with limited purpose.

    I understand not playing the VR headset in a while, but when people say "there's simply nothing to really play" I am quite confused. First of all, hey look a new VR game to look forward to! Second, there are tons of really good VR games. (Moss, Beat Saber, Blade and Sorcery, Gorn, Budget Cuts, Accounting+, Rec Room, just for a few examples).

    And VR doesn't cost 600+a PC. The Oculus Quest runs 400 bucks, doesn't require a PC. For HL Alyx it probably will, so you will need a PC at that point, sure. There's a ton of "windows mixed reality" headsets that can do steam VR stuff that are in the 250-300 dollar range. But it hasn't been 600+ required for a while now. I understand people thinking this stuff is all crazy expensive, there's a bunch of stuff and it is hard to follow!

    I think VR is awesome and definitely where I'd like to see a lot of video games head in the future. Not everything, but a lot of stuff can benefit hugely from it. Playing Elite Dangerous in VR, even though I don't particularly like that game, gave me some really really awesome experiences that playing on a computer screen can't replicate.

    So yeah, I think I'm excited about this Half-Life game. I love that universe and I like Alyx Vance, so I'm really excited to see what Valve wants to show off in the VR space, especially for a full priced game. Reload the gun by hand isn't a big deal, plenty of games have done that. The sweeping stuff off a shelf seems cool so I'm imagining a lot of interesting VR physics based things.

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    What's interesting to me is Valve's timing. The company looks to have produced an absolutely fantastic, system-selling VR experience... a year or so after all other AAA developers (except for Sony) and the general market has given up on VR. This could be the thing that really impresses people and gets people to really give the platform a chance. Or it could be scooped up by the Valve faithful but make nary a ripple in VR adoption.

    I'm kind of leaning toward the latter -- people have had many opportunities to be impressed by VR already, yet it hasn't taken off. Yes, I know that you, personally, didn't mind spending the money on the hardware and upgrades and stuff. But don't forget -- the general market ain't us. And speaking for myself, I'm having trouble justifying dragging my PSVR out of the closet. It's just too much of a commitment and hassle compared to just picking up a controller and going, especially with other people in the house. And yes, I was absolutely blown away by Astro Bot and Tetris Effect. Anecdotally, the local video game convention has stayed the same size over the years, but VR stuff there has gone from a big presence to absolutely nothing this year.

    Of course, I could always be wrong. It's going to be interesting to see what kind of effect this game will have, if nothing else.

    Uhh....what AAA developers have given up on VR? Which AAA games were launched on VR and caused their developer to abandon the platform entirely?

    I'm struggling to come up with a single one. Bethesda ported Skyrim and Fallout....and yeah they haven't done anything else....because they haven't released any good games since then (definitely not seeing anyone clamoring for Fallout 76 VR). We just got a free No Man's Sky VR update a few months ago -- NMS isn't exactly AAA but it's a very high fidelity VR experience, and I don't get the impression they were attaching a sales metric for success to their free VR update for their 3 year old game. But they certainly did decide, after 3 years of...I guess what you're describing as "total VR failure" to add a sweet free VR update to their game.

    There aren't a lot of AAA games in VR, sure! It looks like we're about to get one, and people are super excited! Paradoxically, people are also super upset because....we're getting AAA games for a platform they keep telling us doesn't have enough games to be worthy of existence. That's a bit of a circular argument there. We just got a new wave of headsets too! All of the headset manufacturers that were involved in the launch of VR in 2016 (HTC, Sony, Oculus) are still very actively investing in the market, with new headset releases aplenty. New players have entered the VR market, and recently! WMR (Lenovo, Samsung, Acer...) and Valve have entered the space as manufacturers. I don't know how any of this jives with the narrative I'm being presented with here.

    Fiatil on
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  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    VR as constructed seems like it'll always be niche. Right now I turn on my TV and press a button on a controller and I'm off. With VR I have an additional expense, setup, and wearing of gear. If you want to talk Matrix or Black Mirror USS Callister type tech (beaming the game into your head), I'm not sure that would fall under the VR "brand" and is probably decades away.

    My personal take, I think VR is still in the early adopter phase. I'm basically the demo these companies are targeting: I have a good job, no kids, no debt, and play videogames. So I have disposable income to waste on stuff like this. However the thing holding me back on the PCVR front has been games. I mentioned earlier, if Bandai Namco released the full Ace Combat games in VR, I'd drop $1,000 without question to play. Mechwarrior 5 is tempting me as is. But right now, there are some fun games, but most I can play on my PSVR.

    I'd say I'm in the late adopter group. I'm not spending money to tinker and see tech demos of technology. And if PCVR wants to get us late adopters, they need full on games. I think Valve knows this which is why they are making this game. Still not sure if 2 games are enough for me to drop $400-$1000 but it's certainly getting closer.

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  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    What's interesting to me is Valve's timing. The company looks to have produced an absolutely fantastic, system-selling VR experience... a year or so after all other AAA developers (except for Sony) and the general market has given up on VR. This could be the thing that really impresses people and gets people to really give the platform a chance. Or it could be scooped up by the Valve faithful but make nary a ripple in VR adoption.

    I'm kind of leaning toward the latter -- people have had many opportunities to be impressed by VR already, yet it hasn't taken off. Yes, I know that you, personally, didn't mind spending the money on the hardware and upgrades and stuff. But don't forget -- the general market ain't us. And speaking for myself, I'm having trouble justifying dragging my PSVR out of the closet. It's just too much of a commitment and hassle compared to just picking up a controller and going, especially with other people in the house. And yes, I was absolutely blown away by Astro Bot and Tetris Effect. Anecdotally, the local video game convention has stayed the same size over the years, but VR stuff there has gone from a big presence to absolutely nothing this year.

    Of course, I could always be wrong. It's going to be interesting to see what kind of effect this game will have, if nothing else.

    Uhh....what AAA developers have given up on VR? Which AAA games were launched on VR and caused their developer to abandon the platform entirely?

    I'm struggling to come up with a single one. Bethesda ported Skyrim and Fallout....and yeah they haven't done anything else....because they haven't released any good games since then (definitely not seeing anyone clamoring for Fallout 76 VR). We just got a free No Man's Sky VR update a few months ago -- NMS isn't exactly AAA but it's a very high fidelity VR experience, and I don't get the impression they were attaching a sales metric for success to their free VR update for their 3 year old game. But they certainly did decide, after 3 years of...I guess what you're describing as "total VR failure" to add a sweet free VR update to their game.

    There aren't a lot of AAA games in VR, sure! It looks like we're about to get one, and people are super excited! Paradoxically, people are also super upset because....we're getting AAA games for a platform they keep telling us doesn't have enough games to be worthy of existence. That's a bit of a circular argument there. We just got a new wave of headsets too! All of the headset manufacturers that were involved in the launch of VR in 2016 (HTC, Sony, Oculus) are still very actively investing in the market, with new headset releases aplenty. New players have entered the VR market, and recently! WMR (Lenovo, Samsung, Acer...) and Valve have entered the space as manufacturers. I don't know how any of this jives with the narrative I'm being presented with here.

    Honest question, are there even 5 AAA VR games? I'm thinking No Man's Sky, Elite Dangerous, Resident Evil 7, and ? There are plenty of good games like Moss, Tetris Effect, Beat Saber, etc. Or good tech demos like the missions in Ace Combat 7 or Arkham VR. But I wouldn't call any of them AAA. I guess you could make a case for Doom and Skyrim.

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  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    What's interesting to me is Valve's timing. The company looks to have produced an absolutely fantastic, system-selling VR experience... a year or so after all other AAA developers (except for Sony) and the general market has given up on VR. This could be the thing that really impresses people and gets people to really give the platform a chance. Or it could be scooped up by the Valve faithful but make nary a ripple in VR adoption.

    I'm kind of leaning toward the latter -- people have had many opportunities to be impressed by VR already, yet it hasn't taken off. Yes, I know that you, personally, didn't mind spending the money on the hardware and upgrades and stuff. But don't forget -- the general market ain't us. And speaking for myself, I'm having trouble justifying dragging my PSVR out of the closet. It's just too much of a commitment and hassle compared to just picking up a controller and going, especially with other people in the house. And yes, I was absolutely blown away by Astro Bot and Tetris Effect. Anecdotally, the local video game convention has stayed the same size over the years, but VR stuff there has gone from a big presence to absolutely nothing this year.

    Of course, I could always be wrong. It's going to be interesting to see what kind of effect this game will have, if nothing else.

    Uhh....what AAA developers have given up on VR? Which AAA games were launched on VR and caused their developer to abandon the platform entirely?

    I'm struggling to come up with a single one. Bethesda ported Skyrim and Fallout....and yeah they haven't done anything else....because they haven't released any good games since then (definitely not seeing anyone clamoring for Fallout 76 VR). We just got a free No Man's Sky VR update a few months ago -- NMS isn't exactly AAA but it's a very high fidelity VR experience, and I don't get the impression they were attaching a sales metric for success to their free VR update for their 3 year old game. But they certainly did decide, after 3 years of...I guess what you're describing as "total VR failure" to add a sweet free VR update to their game.

    There aren't a lot of AAA games in VR, sure! It looks like we're about to get one, and people are super excited! Paradoxically, people are also super upset because....we're getting AAA games for a platform they keep telling us doesn't have enough games to be worthy of existence. That's a bit of a circular argument there. We just got a new wave of headsets too! All of the headset manufacturers that were involved in the launch of VR in 2016 (HTC, Sony, Oculus) are still very actively investing in the market, with new headset releases aplenty. New players have entered the VR market, and recently! WMR (Lenovo, Samsung, Acer...) and Valve have entered the space as manufacturers. I don't know how any of this jives with the narrative I'm being presented with here.

    There was definitely a push. I remember one of the various Star Wars games had a VR experience, there was Resident Evil 7 in VR, Doom got a VR experience, Payday 2 hit VR, etc. Though most of those developers have lost interest and moved on.

    And yes, VR continues with loads and loads and loads of games. If you're a VR fan, there's plenty to play. But if you're looking for VR to break into the mainstream, the loss of interest from the AAA developers that aren't hardware manufacturers isn't a great sign. These are the types of games that will get the attention of the mass market. The new Half-Life thing looks great and will probably perform well, but I'd be surprised if it single-handedly gets people who ain't us excited.

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  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    VR is tough for me, I want to give it a shot but while $400 can get me an entry level VR headset that will let me play a handful of games, it would also get me a pretty nice GPU that will let me play thousands of games. "Affordable" doesn't mean "I have enough money for a headset", it means "I have enough money for all of the things I want more than a headset plus an additional $400". PC gaming is cheaper than ever now, but there are a lot of people who are not interested in paying half or more of the cost of their PC on a niche piece of hardware to use with an extremely small number of games.

    I'm sad that the first new Half Life game in over a decade is VR only. I was hoping it was going to be another boring "stand here and wave your arms around and grab stuff" sort of thing so that I wouldn't feel as bad about not being able to play it, seeing that it's a full blown $60 AAA "real game" is both exciting and disheartening.

    I'm happy for the folks who jumped on the VR bandwagon though.

    Sorce
  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    What's interesting to me is Valve's timing. The company looks to have produced an absolutely fantastic, system-selling VR experience... a year or so after all other AAA developers (except for Sony) and the general market has given up on VR. This could be the thing that really impresses people and gets people to really give the platform a chance. Or it could be scooped up by the Valve faithful but make nary a ripple in VR adoption.

    I'm kind of leaning toward the latter -- people have had many opportunities to be impressed by VR already, yet it hasn't taken off. Yes, I know that you, personally, didn't mind spending the money on the hardware and upgrades and stuff. But don't forget -- the general market ain't us. And speaking for myself, I'm having trouble justifying dragging my PSVR out of the closet. It's just too much of a commitment and hassle compared to just picking up a controller and going, especially with other people in the house. And yes, I was absolutely blown away by Astro Bot and Tetris Effect. Anecdotally, the local video game convention has stayed the same size over the years, but VR stuff there has gone from a big presence to absolutely nothing this year.

    Of course, I could always be wrong. It's going to be interesting to see what kind of effect this game will have, if nothing else.

    Uhh....what AAA developers have given up on VR? Which AAA games were launched on VR and caused their developer to abandon the platform entirely?

    I'm struggling to come up with a single one. Bethesda ported Skyrim and Fallout....and yeah they haven't done anything else....because they haven't released any good games since then (definitely not seeing anyone clamoring for Fallout 76 VR). We just got a free No Man's Sky VR update a few months ago -- NMS isn't exactly AAA but it's a very high fidelity VR experience, and I don't get the impression they were attaching a sales metric for success to their free VR update for their 3 year old game. But they certainly did decide, after 3 years of...I guess what you're describing as "total VR failure" to add a sweet free VR update to their game.

    There aren't a lot of AAA games in VR, sure! It looks like we're about to get one, and people are super excited! Paradoxically, people are also super upset because....we're getting AAA games for a platform they keep telling us doesn't have enough games to be worthy of existence. That's a bit of a circular argument there. We just got a new wave of headsets too! All of the headset manufacturers that were involved in the launch of VR in 2016 (HTC, Sony, Oculus) are still very actively investing in the market, with new headset releases aplenty. New players have entered the VR market, and recently! WMR (Lenovo, Samsung, Acer...) and Valve have entered the space as manufacturers. I don't know how any of this jives with the narrative I'm being presented with here.

    There was definitely a push. I remember one of the various Star Wars games had a VR experience, there was Resident Evil 7 in VR, Doom got a VR experience, Payday 2 hit VR, etc. Though most of those developers have lost interest and moved on.

    And yes, VR continues with loads and loads and loads of games. If you're a VR fan, there's plenty to play. But if you're looking for VR to break into the mainstream, the loss of interest from the AAA developers that aren't hardware manufacturers isn't a great sign. These are the types of games that will get the attention of the mass market. The new Half-Life thing looks great and will probably perform well, but I'd be surprised if it single-handedly gets people who ain't us excited.

    A good friend of mine actually said that Vader Immortal is one of the best games that they've ever played. Not just VR, but in general.

    I thought about getting the Quest, but I dunno. I think I'm gonna wait at least until Alyx actually releases to see where VR prices and devices are then.

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  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    I'm also kind of surprised people are surprised that the new half life game is VR. Half-life was a huge thing in the world of games and did really innovative stuff. Half-life 2's effect on games are still felt today, that thing was massively influential. I always expected the next half-life game would try to have that sort of massive effect on games again and VR seems like the only space they have to do something like that.

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Trajan45 wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    What's interesting to me is Valve's timing. The company looks to have produced an absolutely fantastic, system-selling VR experience... a year or so after all other AAA developers (except for Sony) and the general market has given up on VR. This could be the thing that really impresses people and gets people to really give the platform a chance. Or it could be scooped up by the Valve faithful but make nary a ripple in VR adoption.

    I'm kind of leaning toward the latter -- people have had many opportunities to be impressed by VR already, yet it hasn't taken off. Yes, I know that you, personally, didn't mind spending the money on the hardware and upgrades and stuff. But don't forget -- the general market ain't us. And speaking for myself, I'm having trouble justifying dragging my PSVR out of the closet. It's just too much of a commitment and hassle compared to just picking up a controller and going, especially with other people in the house. And yes, I was absolutely blown away by Astro Bot and Tetris Effect. Anecdotally, the local video game convention has stayed the same size over the years, but VR stuff there has gone from a big presence to absolutely nothing this year.

    Of course, I could always be wrong. It's going to be interesting to see what kind of effect this game will have, if nothing else.

    Uhh....what AAA developers have given up on VR? Which AAA games were launched on VR and caused their developer to abandon the platform entirely?

    I'm struggling to come up with a single one. Bethesda ported Skyrim and Fallout....and yeah they haven't done anything else....because they haven't released any good games since then (definitely not seeing anyone clamoring for Fallout 76 VR). We just got a free No Man's Sky VR update a few months ago -- NMS isn't exactly AAA but it's a very high fidelity VR experience, and I don't get the impression they were attaching a sales metric for success to their free VR update for their 3 year old game. But they certainly did decide, after 3 years of...I guess what you're describing as "total VR failure" to add a sweet free VR update to their game.

    There aren't a lot of AAA games in VR, sure! It looks like we're about to get one, and people are super excited! Paradoxically, people are also super upset because....we're getting AAA games for a platform they keep telling us doesn't have enough games to be worthy of existence. That's a bit of a circular argument there. We just got a new wave of headsets too! All of the headset manufacturers that were involved in the launch of VR in 2016 (HTC, Sony, Oculus) are still very actively investing in the market, with new headset releases aplenty. New players have entered the VR market, and recently! WMR (Lenovo, Samsung, Acer...) and Valve have entered the space as manufacturers. I don't know how any of this jives with the narrative I'm being presented with here.

    Honest question, are there even 5 AAA VR games? I'm thinking No Man's Sky, Elite Dangerous, Resident Evil 7, and ? There are plenty of good games like Moss, Tetris Effect, Beat Saber, etc. Or good tech demos like the missions in Ace Combat 7 or Arkham VR. But I wouldn't call any of them AAA. I guess you could make a case for Doom and Skyrim.

    None of these games were even made FOR VR. They were traditional games that had VR added on to them. I can't think of a single AAA made-for VR game.

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  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    In retrospect it makes a lot of sense, really. A big question about HL3 has been "considering each of the previous iterations of the franchise came with some earth-moving advance in the video game experience, is there anywhere for HL3 to even go?"

    A wide variety of different games have iterated and advanced the medium in ways that felt like they were squeezing Half-Life out of its niche as an innovative franchise. It has been over 10 years, after all. Looking back, the move to VR feels almost obvious.

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    In retrospect it makes a lot of sense, really. A big question about HL3 has been "considering each of the previous iterations of the franchise came with some earth-moving advance in the video game experience, is there anywhere for HL3 to even go?"

    A wide variety of different games have iterated and advanced the medium in ways that felt like they were squeezing Half-Life out of its niche as an innovative franchise. It has been over 10 years, after all. Looking back, the move to VR feels almost obvious.

    As a massive fan of Half-Life: I just want another Half-Life game. I don't need something that reinvents the fucking genre.

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  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    In retrospect it makes a lot of sense, really. A big question about HL3 has been "considering each of the previous iterations of the franchise came with some earth-moving advance in the video game experience, is there anywhere for HL3 to even go?"

    A wide variety of different games have iterated and advanced the medium in ways that felt like they were squeezing Half-Life out of its niche as an innovative franchise. It has been over 10 years, after all. Looking back, the move to VR feels almost obvious.

    As a massive fan of Half-Life: I just want another Half-Life game. I don't need something that reinvents the fucking genre.

    But that's kind of what Half-Life has been, though. You and a good deal of other people may just want another episode, but a good deal of other people expect Half-Life to make a big impact like it always has.

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  • SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    In retrospect it makes a lot of sense, really. A big question about HL3 has been "considering each of the previous iterations of the franchise came with some earth-moving advance in the video game experience, is there anywhere for HL3 to even go?"

    A wide variety of different games have iterated and advanced the medium in ways that felt like they were squeezing Half-Life out of its niche as an innovative franchise. It has been over 10 years, after all. Looking back, the move to VR feels almost obvious.

    As a massive fan of Half-Life: I just want another Half-Life game. I don't need something that reinvents the fucking genre.

    "reinvents the fucking genre" is part of the DNA of a half-life game though. Or at least I'm pretty sure that's how Valve sees it.

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    What's interesting to me is Valve's timing. The company looks to have produced an absolutely fantastic, system-selling VR experience... a year or so after all other AAA developers (except for Sony) and the general market has given up on VR. This could be the thing that really impresses people and gets people to really give the platform a chance. Or it could be scooped up by the Valve faithful but make nary a ripple in VR adoption.

    I'm kind of leaning toward the latter -- people have had many opportunities to be impressed by VR already, yet it hasn't taken off. Yes, I know that you, personally, didn't mind spending the money on the hardware and upgrades and stuff. But don't forget -- the general market ain't us. And speaking for myself, I'm having trouble justifying dragging my PSVR out of the closet. It's just too much of a commitment and hassle compared to just picking up a controller and going, especially with other people in the house. And yes, I was absolutely blown away by Astro Bot and Tetris Effect. Anecdotally, the local video game convention has stayed the same size over the years, but VR stuff there has gone from a big presence to absolutely nothing this year.

    Of course, I could always be wrong. It's going to be interesting to see what kind of effect this game will have, if nothing else.

    Uhh....what AAA developers have given up on VR? Which AAA games were launched on VR and caused their developer to abandon the platform entirely?

    I'm struggling to come up with a single one. Bethesda ported Skyrim and Fallout....and yeah they haven't done anything else....because they haven't released any good games since then (definitely not seeing anyone clamoring for Fallout 76 VR). We just got a free No Man's Sky VR update a few months ago -- NMS isn't exactly AAA but it's a very high fidelity VR experience, and I don't get the impression they were attaching a sales metric for success to their free VR update for their 3 year old game. But they certainly did decide, after 3 years of...I guess what you're describing as "total VR failure" to add a sweet free VR update to their game.

    There aren't a lot of AAA games in VR, sure! It looks like we're about to get one, and people are super excited! Paradoxically, people are also super upset because....we're getting AAA games for a platform they keep telling us doesn't have enough games to be worthy of existence. That's a bit of a circular argument there. We just got a new wave of headsets too! All of the headset manufacturers that were involved in the launch of VR in 2016 (HTC, Sony, Oculus) are still very actively investing in the market, with new headset releases aplenty. New players have entered the VR market, and recently! WMR (Lenovo, Samsung, Acer...) and Valve have entered the space as manufacturers. I don't know how any of this jives with the narrative I'm being presented with here.

    There was definitely a push. I remember one of the various Star Wars games had a VR experience, there was Resident Evil 7 in VR, Doom got a VR experience, Payday 2 hit VR, etc. Though most of those developers have lost interest and moved on.

    And yes, VR continues with loads and loads and loads of games. If you're a VR fan, there's plenty to play. But if you're looking for VR to break into the mainstream, the loss of interest from the AAA developers that aren't hardware manufacturers isn't a great sign. These are the types of games that will get the attention of the mass market. The new Half-Life thing looks great and will probably perform well, but I'd be surprised if it single-handedly gets people who ain't us excited.

    So I'm with you, to an extent. However, your first paragraph is factually inaccurate on its face.

    Resident Evil 7 got a VR mode because Sony paid them to make it a PSVR exclusive and help them sell headsets. As you have said, Sony is still doing this.

    Doom got a VR experience, just like every other Bethesda game. There is no credible argument that Bethesda has given up on the platform, because they've been porting every good game they have to VR.

    Payday 2 isn't a AAA game, and do we have any indication that they've given up on VR? Is payday 3 out with confirmation that we will never get a VR version of it? Last I heard the studio in general is struggling and we may never get a Payday 3 period, but I certainly never heard that being tied to the massive failure of their VR version that they were hoping would save the studio (and it would be super dumb for them to expect a VR version of their old game to save the studio).

    There was a rash of "we're going to have a VR mode for our upcoming game!", which is where I'm with you. Most of those did wind up being dumb half baked attempts a la "Let's just add waggle to it and put it on the Wii" or just didn't come to fruition. We got a few cool, but very short experiences like the Batman Arkham thing. But we didn't get any AAA games out of that wave -- most of the developers finally realized that just porting your game to VR makes a terrible VR game. You need to build it from the ground up to take advantage of the system and avoid the pitfalls, or invest actual time and money into doing a full thought out port. You're going to have to change some stuff to make it work in almost every instance. This is also why I believe Valve when they say just making it a flatscreen game too would wind up with both versions suffering.

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  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    In retrospect it makes a lot of sense, really. A big question about HL3 has been "considering each of the previous iterations of the franchise came with some earth-moving advance in the video game experience, is there anywhere for HL3 to even go?"

    A wide variety of different games have iterated and advanced the medium in ways that felt like they were squeezing Half-Life out of its niche as an innovative franchise. It has been over 10 years, after all. Looking back, the move to VR feels almost obvious.

    As a massive fan of Half-Life: I just want another Half-Life game. I don't need something that reinvents the fucking genre.

    "reinvents the fucking genre" is part of the DNA of a half-life game though. Or at least I'm pretty sure that's how Valve sees it.

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  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    In retrospect it makes a lot of sense, really. A big question about HL3 has been "considering each of the previous iterations of the franchise came with some earth-moving advance in the video game experience, is there anywhere for HL3 to even go?"

    A wide variety of different games have iterated and advanced the medium in ways that felt like they were squeezing Half-Life out of its niche as an innovative franchise. It has been over 10 years, after all. Looking back, the move to VR feels almost obvious.

    As a massive fan of Half-Life: I just want another Half-Life game. I don't need something that reinvents the fucking genre.

    "reinvents the fucking genre" is part of the DNA of a half-life game though. Or at least I'm pretty sure that's how Valve sees it.

    HL1: Massive hit with voiced dialogue, incredible AI, great setting, storytelling without cutscenes
    HL2: Physiiiiiiics
    HL2 Ep1 and 2: Episodic games!

    And not just physics, but Steam as a service. It existed before then, but Half-Life 2 mandated it, which was also a controversial move that ostracized a certain amount of customers. Obviously not to the extent that Alyx has, but it still made people real mad.

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Nobody is going to not buy Half-Life 3 just because it doesn't reinvent video games, though.

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  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Trajan45 wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    cloudeagle wrote: »
    What's interesting to me is Valve's timing. The company looks to have produced an absolutely fantastic, system-selling VR experience... a year or so after all other AAA developers (except for Sony) and the general market has given up on VR. This could be the thing that really impresses people and gets people to really give the platform a chance. Or it could be scooped up by the Valve faithful but make nary a ripple in VR adoption.

    I'm kind of leaning toward the latter -- people have had many opportunities to be impressed by VR already, yet it hasn't taken off. Yes, I know that you, personally, didn't mind spending the money on the hardware and upgrades and stuff. But don't forget -- the general market ain't us. And speaking for myself, I'm having trouble justifying dragging my PSVR out of the closet. It's just too much of a commitment and hassle compared to just picking up a controller and going, especially with other people in the house. And yes, I was absolutely blown away by Astro Bot and Tetris Effect. Anecdotally, the local video game convention has stayed the same size over the years, but VR stuff there has gone from a big presence to absolutely nothing this year.

    Of course, I could always be wrong. It's going to be interesting to see what kind of effect this game will have, if nothing else.

    Uhh....what AAA developers have given up on VR? Which AAA games were launched on VR and caused their developer to abandon the platform entirely?

    I'm struggling to come up with a single one. Bethesda ported Skyrim and Fallout....and yeah they haven't done anything else....because they haven't released any good games since then (definitely not seeing anyone clamoring for Fallout 76 VR). We just got a free No Man's Sky VR update a few months ago -- NMS isn't exactly AAA but it's a very high fidelity VR experience, and I don't get the impression they were attaching a sales metric for success to their free VR update for their 3 year old game. But they certainly did decide, after 3 years of...I guess what you're describing as "total VR failure" to add a sweet free VR update to their game.

    There aren't a lot of AAA games in VR, sure! It looks like we're about to get one, and people are super excited! Paradoxically, people are also super upset because....we're getting AAA games for a platform they keep telling us doesn't have enough games to be worthy of existence. That's a bit of a circular argument there. We just got a new wave of headsets too! All of the headset manufacturers that were involved in the launch of VR in 2016 (HTC, Sony, Oculus) are still very actively investing in the market, with new headset releases aplenty. New players have entered the VR market, and recently! WMR (Lenovo, Samsung, Acer...) and Valve have entered the space as manufacturers. I don't know how any of this jives with the narrative I'm being presented with here.

    Honest question, are there even 5 AAA VR games? I'm thinking No Man's Sky, Elite Dangerous, Resident Evil 7, and ? There are plenty of good games like Moss, Tetris Effect, Beat Saber, etc. Or good tech demos like the missions in Ace Combat 7 or Arkham VR. But I wouldn't call any of them AAA. I guess you could make a case for Doom and Skyrim.

    None of these games were even made FOR VR. They were traditional games that had VR added on to them. I can't think of a single AAA made-for VR game.

    Yeah. Ports can be decent, but by their nature they can't take advantage of the unique possibilities VR offers (which is also why, no, Valve can't make Alyx both VR and 2D without completely hamstringing it). Just looking through this thread you'll find plenty of posts alternating "VR won't take off until there are big games for it" and "Publishers won't make big games for VR until it takes off." So yeah, someone had to make a killer app first, and Valve's well positioned for it.

    Alyx will hopefully not just be the first AAA VR game, but it'll prove new tricks and techniques for VR gaming that can be used in future games. Like Half Life games have done in the past, as others pointed out.

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Nobody is going to not buy Half-Life 3 just because it doesn't reinvent video games, though.

    That part is fairly easy. Valve does not want to make that game. They have shown, in their lack of Half Life 3 for however many years, that they don't want to just make a very good game and call it Half Life 3 and have it be "Half Life 2 but more".

    That does kind of suck for a lot of people. But a lot of people seem to be framing this as an opportunity cost for Half Life 3 -- "Valve is making this stupid VR game and not Half Life 3". That is not what is happening. Valve is making this VR Half Life game because it is the only Half Life idea that has made it to the point of a game they have felt worth announcing since the last Half Life game. You're welcome to be frustrated by that, but Valve as a studio does not function in the same way as other AAA studios do. We have decades of evidence showing that.

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    Right but Valve doesn't care about what the public wants (which is as good a reason to critique them as any). At this point games are a tool for them to expand Steam, not the other way around. I think the only reason we even got DotA2 and Artifact is because the big games in those genres aren't on Steam.

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited November 2019
    As historically one of the biggest fucking fan of Half-Life on the forums dated back YEARS and as somebody who has no interested and will NEVER have an interest in VR (puke city!) god I'm so disappointed with this VR bullshit. uuuuugh., Aside from like the "hand pushing shit out of the way way to get a shell" nothing in that trailer looked like it couldn't just be in a regular FPS game, and if Valve is serious about this whole "it's a full HL2 length game with full on story for the HL universe" I'm so incredibly bummed.

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    also honestly, i don't give a shit about some prequel business and I certainly don't give a shit about Half-Life 3, which as never even been announced.

    WHAT I WANT IS HALF-LIFE 2: EPISODE 3 TO FINISH THE FUCKING CLIFFHANGER ENDING OF EPISODE 2 GOD DAMMIT VALVE

    *mouth foaming*

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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    I think my ideal end to HL: Alyx would be:
    It goes a little bit past the end of EP2. Alyx finds the Borealus, discovers that it can teleport not just around in space, but time as well. They load it up with a massive data dump of tech and she rides it back and crashes it into Black Mesa, stopping the cascade from happening. Maybe getting Gordon accidentally killed as well.

    The data dump lets humanity be better prepared for when the Combine eventually show up, and ends up morphing the franchise into a different series so Half-Life 3 never actually happens.

    At the end, GMan is just smiling and nodding at you, and Gabe comes up behind him. "This ending is dedicated to the 'fans' who have constantly been harassing our devs wanting a HL3 that they will never now get. Eat it, vid boi."

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  • painfulPleasancepainfulPleasance The First RepublicRegistered User regular
    There's a 30 minute interview about this, one thing I've heard everyone say is that people are fucking terrified of working on Half Life at Valve and VR was a way to trick them into doing it.

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