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[Half-Life] Black Mesa: Definitive Edition Out Now!

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  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    I'm genuinely shocked at the utter vitriol against VR in this thread. It's like the console wars all over again.

    In terms of AAA VR games, probably not. In terms of "Full games with a good budget", then "yes".

    PSVR: Blood and Truth, Astrobot, Until Dawn: Rush of Blood, Farpoint, Wipeout (Ok, bit of a cheat), Moss, Statik.
    PC/Both: Arizona Sunshine, Stormland (Insomniac, arguably AAA), Arktika 1 (4a Games-Metro series), Lone Echo (Ready at Dawn), Defector (I forgot about this and now need to buy it!), Asgard's Wrath, Pistol Whip, Beat Saber.

    Probably in tech demo category but still awesome games: I expect you to Die, Superhot VR, Robo Recall, Space Pirate Trainer, Job Simulator, Vacation Simulator, Rick and Morty, Psychonauts, Audica (by the Rock Band devs), Gorn, Rec Room, A Fisherman's Tale.

    Sporting Games: Sprint Vector (running Mario Kart), Racket NX, Creed, Holoball.

    As a line up for a new platform I'd argue there's not a bad game amongst ALL of them and the vast majority have a decent budget and a reasonable length to them.

    Again, can't help but think this is all a little off topic for Half Life though, which I'm very excited for.

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited November 2019
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    I'm genuinely shocked at the utter vitriol against VR in this thread
    really? Most people already have at least 1 of 3 consoles and/or a gaming PC, you're shocked people don't want to shell down another grand for VR on top of that. Most people at large do not want VR, I certainly don't. I have 2 small kids, I can't just strap into VR and not be available to the outside world for 2 hours! Plus physically I literally can't do VR, puke city.

    Yet at the same time most people in a half-life thread are gonna really want to play a new story based half-life game and as already said, most people don't have (or want) VR... so, what are you shocked about exactly?

    edit - holy shit it's available in Canada now:
    54l3la7ako1t.png
    BAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    I dunno if the negativity is any different from when Bayonetta 2 was announced as a WiiU game. So many people were like "I really DON'T want to pay $400 for a shitty gaming console that only has 1 game!". Those were fun times.

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  • MulletudeMulletude Registered User regular
    I can't justify the hardware to play the game but I love what I saw in the trailer. I'll wistfully watch people play through it and hope I find a winning lotto ticket or something lol

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Good thing the Index isn't the only way to play it then.

    An Oculus Rift S can allegedly run at Recommended levels on a 4 year old gaming PC (at least, the way mine is spec'd out) and will be on sale at Best Buy next weekend for $480 Canadian or $350 US, or in other words a third of the price of an Index.

    And as has been stated in the this thread and the VR one several times, headsets have been improving and coming down in price over the years. It was more expensive a few years ago, and if the technology sees greater adoption rates in the years to come, there's no reason not to expect more sets to come out, and more budget conscious ones among them (or like phones, once the current versions are no longer the 'new hotness', the newer editions to be priced in similar ranges and to have the older sets get discounted as retailers look to free up shelf space).

    If the current game lineup isn't appealing, if the price is too high... then wait. We've all seen tech come down over time, and thus far this seems to be no exception. Don't own a VR rig? Maybe a friend does! I fully expect at least one friend to play HL:A on my system (if I get one, it's tempting but by no means a foregone conclusion).

    There are gradients here, and some seem to think that if they don't go fully VR ready today and have it at release, somehow they'll never experience it at all.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Forar wrote: »
    Good thing the Index isn't the only way to play it then.

    An Oculus Rift S can allegedly run at Recommended levels on a 4 year old gaming PC (at least, the way mine is spec'd out) and will be on sale at Best Buy next weekend for $480 Canadian or $350 US, or in other words a third of the price of an Index.

    And as has been stated in the this thread and the VR one several times, headsets have been improving and coming down in price over the years. It was more expensive a few years ago, and if the technology sees greater adoption rates in the years to come, there's no reason not to expect more sets to come out, and more budget conscious ones among them (or like phones, once the current versions are no longer the 'new hotness', the newer editions to be priced in similar ranges and to have the older sets get discounted as retailers look to free up shelf space).

    If the current game lineup isn't appealing, if the price is too high... then wait. We've all seen tech come down over time, and thus far this seems to be no exception. Don't own a VR rig? Maybe a friend does! I fully expect at least one friend to play HL:A on my system (if I get one, it's tempting but by no means a foregone conclusion).

    There are gradients here, and some seem to think that if they don't go fully VR ready today and have it at release, somehow they'll never experience it at all.

    a couple of things here, 1 480 is still a shitload of money dude, and 2 I can guarantee you I will never be able to play Alyx unless they port it to regular PC, you may have magic friends who own VR but I sure don't (also why would i want to play a 20+ hour VR game at a friend's house but have no interaction with that friend?)

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Forar wrote: »
    Good thing the Index isn't the only way to play it then.

    An Oculus Rift S can allegedly run at Recommended levels on a 4 year old gaming PC (at least, the way mine is spec'd out) and will be on sale at Best Buy next weekend for $480 Canadian or $350 US, or in other words a third of the price of an Index.

    And as has been stated in the this thread and the VR one several times, headsets have been improving and coming down in price over the years. It was more expensive a few years ago, and if the technology sees greater adoption rates in the years to come, there's no reason not to expect more sets to come out, and more budget conscious ones among them (or like phones, once the current versions are no longer the 'new hotness', the newer editions to be priced in similar ranges and to have the older sets get discounted as retailers look to free up shelf space).

    If the current game lineup isn't appealing, if the price is too high... then wait. We've all seen tech come down over time, and thus far this seems to be no exception. Don't own a VR rig? Maybe a friend does! I fully expect at least one friend to play HL:A on my system (if I get one, it's tempting but by no means a foregone conclusion).

    There are gradients here, and some seem to think that if they don't go fully VR ready today and have it at release, somehow they'll never experience it at all.

    $350 is a lot of money!

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  • SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    Tech isn't cheap.

    I bought my PS4 just to play Bloodborne, and it was damn worth it, since you know, it also has a bunch of other games on it. Like VR. If you really just don't want to spend so much, get the headset, finish the game and then sell the headset, you won't be want for buyers.

  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    I'm genuinely shocked at the utter vitriol against VR in this thread
    really? Most people already have at least 1 of 3 consoles and/or a gaming PC, you're shocked people don't want to shell down another grand for VR on top of that. Most people at large do not want VR, I certainly don't. I have 2 small kids, I can't just strap into VR and not be available to the outside world for 2 hours! Plus physically I literally can't do VR, puke city.

    Yet at the same time most people in a half-life thread are gonna really want to play a new story based half-life game and as already said, most people don't have (or want) VR... so, what are you shocked about exactly?

    edit - holy shit it's available in Canada now:
    54l3la7ako1t.png
    BAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    That’s a lot of Canadough.

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    This is a really odd discussion. $1000 is a lot of money, $350 is a lot of money, a new console is a lot of money, $60 for a full price game is a lot of money too. We're talking about luxury items. None of the prices we're talking about is some extravagance -- the Index is definitely enthusiast tier priced, but the other stuff isn't some absurd dollar figure relative to how much money you spend to own a gaming system and games themselves. Every single one of us is on a forum discussing luxury items that certain segments of society can't imagine being able to afford.

    Is VR not allowed to exist until the headsets are $30? Is any company allowed to make any fun game that you might want for a platform you don't have? What's the acceptable price and market penetration before Valve is allowed to make the game they want on the platform they want? None of us are entitled to any of this stuff.

    We are fortunate to live in a society where creators can't be chained to their desks and forced to make content they don't want to make just because "fans" want it. Valve takes this to a pretty crazy extreme and lets people just wander around to whatever project they want to do. We're getting weirdly close to "Valve has to make the game I want for the platform I want and no other games".

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  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    Good thing the Index isn't the only way to play it then.

    An Oculus Rift S can allegedly run at Recommended levels on a 4 year old gaming PC (at least, the way mine is spec'd out) and will be on sale at Best Buy next weekend for $480 Canadian or $350 US, or in other words a third of the price of an Index.

    And as has been stated in the this thread and the VR one several times, headsets have been improving and coming down in price over the years. It was more expensive a few years ago, and if the technology sees greater adoption rates in the years to come, there's no reason not to expect more sets to come out, and more budget conscious ones among them (or like phones, once the current versions are no longer the 'new hotness', the newer editions to be priced in similar ranges and to have the older sets get discounted as retailers look to free up shelf space).

    If the current game lineup isn't appealing, if the price is too high... then wait. We've all seen tech come down over time, and thus far this seems to be no exception. Don't own a VR rig? Maybe a friend does! I fully expect at least one friend to play HL:A on my system (if I get one, it's tempting but by no means a foregone conclusion).

    There are gradients here, and some seem to think that if they don't go fully VR ready today and have it at release, somehow they'll never experience it at all.

    a couple of things here, 1 480 is still a shitload of money dude, and 2 I can guarantee you I will never be able to play Alyx unless they port it to regular PC, you may have magic friends who own VR but I sure don't (also why would i want to play a 20+ hour VR game at a friend's house but have no interaction with that friend?)

    I own both Oculus Rift and PSVR and can tell you that I absolutely love having friends over and getting them into a VR game. You can absolutely interact with them while inside. I love watching how giddy they are when they try it out and jump at things. It's easily one of my favorite parts.

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    urahonky wrote: »
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    Good thing the Index isn't the only way to play it then.

    An Oculus Rift S can allegedly run at Recommended levels on a 4 year old gaming PC (at least, the way mine is spec'd out) and will be on sale at Best Buy next weekend for $480 Canadian or $350 US, or in other words a third of the price of an Index.

    And as has been stated in the this thread and the VR one several times, headsets have been improving and coming down in price over the years. It was more expensive a few years ago, and if the technology sees greater adoption rates in the years to come, there's no reason not to expect more sets to come out, and more budget conscious ones among them (or like phones, once the current versions are no longer the 'new hotness', the newer editions to be priced in similar ranges and to have the older sets get discounted as retailers look to free up shelf space).

    If the current game lineup isn't appealing, if the price is too high... then wait. We've all seen tech come down over time, and thus far this seems to be no exception. Don't own a VR rig? Maybe a friend does! I fully expect at least one friend to play HL:A on my system (if I get one, it's tempting but by no means a foregone conclusion).

    There are gradients here, and some seem to think that if they don't go fully VR ready today and have it at release, somehow they'll never experience it at all.

    a couple of things here, 1 480 is still a shitload of money dude, and 2 I can guarantee you I will never be able to play Alyx unless they port it to regular PC, you may have magic friends who own VR but I sure don't (also why would i want to play a 20+ hour VR game at a friend's house but have no interaction with that friend?)

    I own both Oculus Rift and PSVR and can tell you that I absolutely love having friends over and getting them into a VR game. You can absolutely interact with them while inside. I love watching how giddy they are when they try it out and jump at things. It's easily one of my favorite parts.

    Yeah -- in this particular instance, it is probably kind of rough to go to your buddy's house and use their PC for 15+ hours to finish a story game. But it's a common and incredibly inaccurate assumption that VR is an inherently antisocial experience -- it's definitely not. I wouldn't have let dozens of people come to my house and use my headset for hundreds of hours if it was boring me. It's really fun to watch and see people experience new stuff in VR! PC VR has settings that allow you to mirror what the user is seeing to your monitor; it is the default and I have it on 100% of the time.

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  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    Right but Valve doesn't care about what the public wants (which is as good a reason to critique them as any). At this point games are a tool for them to expand Steam, not the other way around. I think the only reason we even got DotA2 and Artifact is because the big games in those genres aren't on Steam.

    I mean we can go back to the George Lucas debate when the prequels and Indy 4 came out. Who "owns" the license? Do we as fans of something for decades get any say?

    I know this may come as a shock but developers do like to branch out and try new things. It doesn't always work, Anthem being a recent example. We see it in corporate IT all the time as well. Development is a creative process and folks typically don't like to just pump out the same stuff over and over. It would be naive to think that the upper management didn't greenlight this project without considering the idea it could boost Index sales. But like all things in life, it's not black and white. That it's probably a combination of a bunch of things that led to this project.

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  • DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    ...I liked Anthem.

    But yeah I can understand the frustration for sure. Really it’s just like a platform exclusive.

    Nothing new here and people will always complain, no way to please everyone.

    People should be allowed to share their opinion, just you know without the screaming and shouting about it. Some of the reddit threads are pretty toxic.

    I hate that PSVR has a lot of VR stuff I want try and I already have an oculus so I’m not gonna buy the PS version.

    Like others have said, Valve can do what they want. Maybe with the feedback valve will decide to do a non-vr release. In the pcgamer interview they kinda confirmed other HL games, but it read like they would be VR also.

  • GSMGSM Registered User regular
    I know the topic right now is about the business meta, but I wanna talk about the game...

    Multiple times in the video they showed peeking around corners while resting your hand on the wall. I think they're using a 2D version of the popular VR climbing mechanic (first seen in Crytek's The Climb, I think?). So instead of just moving the whole world when you grab a fixed surface, they're using that anchor point to drag you around the floor plane. Maybe there's actual climbing too? They didn't show any ladders in the trailer. But reworking that mechanic for corner peeking is really intriguing.

    We'll get back there someday.
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Yes, $350/480 is a lot of money. No doubt about it. PC gaming has gotten cheaper over the years, and aside from GPUs has probably never been cheaper for the quality you get, but it's still a fairly expensive hobby. It would be appreciated if people would stop reacting like I said it was pocket change while lighting a cigar with a burning 2080 TI graphic card.

    If someone can barely scrape by to build a semi-modern gaming rig and can't afford a VR headset, maybe they'll come down in a year or two. Or borrow one from a friend. Or do without. Like, that's life, and I'm not up in arms about having an old PC and a PS4 but not a Switch or XBone or likely being on the early adopter train for a PS5 when they come out next year, or any of a thousand other hobbies and luxury goods I'd like.

    There is nothing wrong with prioritizing VR much lower than other hobbies. If that kind of change would put a dent in ones ability to live comfortably, hell no, fuck it, wait a year or two or five for a generational change and the decreased cost/increased capabilities that will presumably come with them.

    I get it, I really do. If I get to the checkout and can't justify snagging a VR set this year, I might just have to miss the release and get one next year. I'm sure that in the 12 months between now and then, that it'll be cheaper and/or improved in tangible ways. Or maybe the year after that. There are thousands of hours of other quality entertainment (games, books, shows, movies, outdoor activities, other experiences, etc) on my plate, so if this one ends up not being for me (yet), it's not something I'm going to lose sleep over.

    Yes, it's expensive. So is PC or console gaming. So is having a healthy board game collection, a vast DVD/novel library, a good bike, a nice car, improving my home, and all the other things that we want to do with the limited resources at our disposal.

    A full Rock Band kit (game, instruments, piles of songs) wasn't all that much less, and yet millions of people still managed to get the game and at least a few of the instruments over time.

    The 12 year wait on a continuation of this story is indeed a unique factor, but at the same time, it makes being a prequel smarter. We know Alyx will survive to see HL2 (spoiler alert), how she gets there will hopefully be a fun and exciting experience, but in a way, I think I'd feel a lot less charitable if they did make HL3 or HL2E3 as a VR exclusive. Hell, I'd probably be up on the ramparts with people over that.

    And if this is a success, maybe it inspires future work. And maybe those sales and that interest helps drive manufacturers to broaden player options.

    I'm a bit frustrated by the accusatory tone some are taking over this. It's a step. Not the last point at which the technology will exist (most likely, at least). Go ahead, view it as a $350-500 game, or instead view it as an entry cost to some really great games like Beat Saber and hopefully HL:A (c'mon Valve, don't betray me here) and more.

    And if not, well, that's a shame, but if it takes developing a whole new hardware system to get the Valve team on board with making more Half Life... at least it's more Half Life? I suppose wallowing for another decade without anything released instead while making money on hats is fine too. Like... even if I don't play this for a year or three, I will still be happy that there is more Half Life to explore! Finally!

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    GSM wrote: »
    I know the topic right now is about the business meta, but I wanna talk about the game...

    Multiple times in the video they showed peeking around corners while resting your hand on the wall. I think they're using a 2D version of the popular VR climbing mechanic (first seen in Crytek's The Climb, I think?). So instead of just moving the whole world when you grab a fixed surface, they're using that anchor point to drag you around the floor plane. Maybe there's actual climbing too? They didn't show any ladders in the trailer. But reworking that mechanic for corner peeking is really intriguing.

    I couldn't really tell from the trailer, but it sounds like it wont be using climbing movement. RPS has a summary article up that says:

    "Better still, it’s also designed to support room scale, sitting and standing VR setups, and allows for character motion via teleportation, ‘shifting’ from A to B, or walking around with an analogue stick. It will also support finger tracking (as used in Valve Index controllers) or trigger-based controllers (as used in HTC Vive controllers)."

    So traditional movement, teleporting, or what I'm assuming is something like Raw Data's quick dash for the "shifting".

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  • The_SpaniardThe_Spaniard Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    I dunno if the negativity is any different from when Bayonetta 2 was announced as a WiiU game. So many people were like "I really DON'T want to pay $400 for a shitty gaming console that only has 1 game!". Those were fun times.

    A depressing amount of those people said that since the game wouldn't exist otherwise that they would rather it not come out at all than come out on the WiiU.

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  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    I'm genuinely shocked at the utter vitriol against VR in this thread
    really? Most people already have at least 1 of 3 consoles and/or a gaming PC, you're shocked people don't want to shell down another grand for VR on top of that. Most people at large do not want VR, I certainly don't. I have 2 small kids, I can't just strap into VR and not be available to the outside world for 2 hours! Plus physically I literally can't do VR, puke city.

    Yes, really. I'm not shocked people don't WANT VR, that's entirely up to them (though again, as a gamer I've always been excited by it). I'm shocked at how massively aggressive people are about it. Just look at some of the language and tone used in this thread, it's not "nah, it's not for me", it's "VR is bullshit", "Fuck valve". Honestly it reeks of the kind of discussion I actively avoid and that, in general, isn't present on these forums. I love the VR thread here now, it's a super fun mini little community.

    I thought we'd got beyond the whole console-war "this piece of tech is shit" stage. This game wouldn't have been made if it wasn't for VR, Valve committed to designing 3(?) VR games and this was one. So it pretty much comes down to "this game is VR, or wouldn't exist". Getting involved in the new tech is what drove the desire to make the game, there's a number of interviews saying that.

    And I have one small child, a wife and an extremely busy life that affords me very little gaming time. I choose to spend that time in VR. I'm no more unavailable to the outside world than if I were sat in a man-cave playing games, and only slightly more unavailable than if I was sat on the sofa playing games on the TV. In fact my daughter can sit on the sofa and watch TV whilst I get my Beat Saber on. Then, we swap:



    And she fucking loves it. Beat Saber, Job Simulator, Vacation Simulator. Hell, she packs a mean punch in Gorn.

    But this is, like, the third time that I feel I'm trying to champion VR (badly). I know it's not for everyone, and I don't think it'll take over gaming, but this game wouldn't be about if it wasn't for these awesome headsets (As Time seem to agree, with the Quest being one of 2019's top inventions) so it'd be nice to talk about how cool it looks, rather than how shitty it is that it exists. But I won't put up an argument anymore, I'm really just repeating myself.

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  • Handsome CostanzaHandsome Costanza Ask me about 8bitdo RIP Iwata-sanRegistered User regular
    The Index is like a thousand dollars and it's the way valve intends the game to be played.

    I guess you could just buy the controllers, but you're still not getting the full experience if your headset doesn't do what the Index does.

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  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    GSM wrote: »
    I know the topic right now is about the business meta, but I wanna talk about the game...

    Multiple times in the video they showed peeking around corners while resting your hand on the wall. I think they're using a 2D version of the popular VR climbing mechanic (first seen in Crytek's The Climb, I think?). So instead of just moving the whole world when you grab a fixed surface, they're using that anchor point to drag you around the floor plane. Maybe there's actual climbing too? They didn't show any ladders in the trailer. But reworking that mechanic for corner peeking is really intriguing.

    I'm super excited to see how that works. I like how they've embraced all common movement types (teleport, slide and free movement). I'll probably stick with teleport, it's not a sickness thing, I just oddly find it more immersive. Controller movement makes me feel like I'm on a segway, but being able to grab and lean would be awesome.

    I'll undoubtedly end up falling over doing it (my daughter did this, lent on the shop counter in Job Simulator. She forgot it didn't exist.).

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  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    The Index is like a thousand dollars and it's the way valve intends the game to be played.

    I guess you could just buy the controllers, but you're still not getting the full experience if your headset doesn't do what the Index does.

    I mean, yeah.. You can "play" it on a $400 headset without any special controllers, but then it's probably just shit...

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    The Index is like a thousand dollars and it's the way valve intends the game to be played.

    I guess you could just buy the controllers, but you're still not getting the full experience if your headset doesn't do what the Index does.

    I mean, yeah.. You can "play" it on a $400 headset without any special controllers, but then it's probably just shit...

    I guess we'll find out in March (maybe).

    And if that's the case, well, anyone who hasn't already adopted in can save themselves the money and avoid it until Valve achieves gaming dominance and producing orders of magnitude more units lets economy of scale kick in and drop the price considerably.

    Or it goes on to be an expensive unplayed game, and Valve has to think long and hard about what they've done.

    But we don't know that's the case. Maybe with a Vive or Oculus and non-Knuckles controllers it's just 'okay' and with the full Index Experience it's like fifty thousand simultaneous orgasms, or "substantially better".

    But to say 'oh it's probably shit' without anything to back that up is awfully prejudgmental.

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  • Handsome CostanzaHandsome Costanza Ask me about 8bitdo RIP Iwata-sanRegistered User regular
    edited November 2019
    The Index is like a thousand dollars and it's the way valve intends the game to be played.

    I guess you could just buy the controllers, but you're still not getting the full experience if your headset doesn't do what the Index does.

    I mean, yeah.. You can "play" it on a $400 headset without any special controllers, but then it's probably just shit...

    If they designed for and playtested it on the superior Index then my $350 headset from 4 years ago is probably going to struggle to keep up.. and things designed to look good on that display probably wont play as well on my rift.

    With that being said I'm damn sure not paying out a grand for it. Even the $275 for the controllers is ridiculous.

    $1000 is "welp I guess this is too expensive to make currently" territory

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  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2019
    Like, they developed a game for VR, and they're happy enough with the results to actually offer it to the public in (allegedly) 4 months.

    If they'd done it all but reskinned it as something unrelated, would people actually be happier? If it was totally "The Adventures of Valyx Nance, Futuristic Post Apocalyptic Badass", I figure people would just say 'omg just call it Half Life' and probably add in some complaining about it not being HL3.

    Valve gets shit on for not releasing games.

    Well, they finally released a game. And unlike Artifact and Underlords, it's something I'm excited to try (one day).

    I'm listening to the interview Keighley did with some of the team, and he goes over this explicitly around 8 or 9 minutes in.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    [tinfoilhat] Alyx is Valve testing the waters to see what kind of market there is for AAA VR games. If it looks satisfactory (which doesn't necessarily mean "big") then we get Half-Life 3, exclusively for Valve Index! [/tinfoilhat]

    I mean yeah I know it is tinfoil-haty, but using a high profile game to sell hardware isn't exactly unheard of. In fact it is pretty much standard practice.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
    Forar
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    None of these games were even made FOR VR. They were traditional games that had VR added on to them. I can't think of a single AAA made-for VR game.

    You know how long it takes to make an AAA game, right? You're aware they don't bang out a Witcher or Assassin's Creed in two years? VR has been out for literally three years. If a gigantic dev started a full AAA game in early 2017, they'd literally only just now maybe be done. Probably not, though.

    So all of this garbage being spouted by you, @cloudeagle @Trajan45, etc, is just that; garbage.

    AAA game devs haven't given up on VR, they haven't STARTED in VR yet. Because AAA games take a longass time to make! HL:Alyx has been in development since 2017!

    It's like you believe that all the AAA devs went hard into VR, got nowhere, and gave up! Based on what?

  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited November 2019
    This thread has a misconception floating around in it that "oh well if you can't afford VR right now just wait a year, or two, or five and i'll be cheaper" etc

    The issue is for people like me (and honestly it sounds like the majority of people who play video games) who don't want and literally never want VR. In 5 years I'll still never get to play this game, and i love half-life, and it bums me out. that's the long and short of it.

    (the other issue is that VR is not just some new console, it's a cost ontop of the cost you already paid for your current gaming platform. People who can't afford 1grand this year for it still aren't going to be able to afford it next year or the year after that as there are other costs and maybe they only have enough to get a PS5 or new gaming pc or whatever, getting VR is a considerable up-sell)

    edit -
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    And I have one small child, a wife and an extremely busy life that affords me very little gaming time. I choose to spend that time in VR. I'm no more unavailable to the outside world than if I were sat in a man-cave playing games, and only slightly more unavailable than if I was sat on the sofa playing games on the TV. In fact my daughter can sit on the sofa and watch TV whilst I get my Beat Saber on. Then, we swap
    that's super cool that you do this with your daughter and I'm not gonna tell you how to parent but I have a 3 year old and a 5 year old and there is no way in hell I'm gonna sit around on a couch with a VR helmet on, not communicating with them, and then swap. I already make sure I never play games around my kids, as far as they are concerned the only video game that exists is mario kart and mario odyssey and my 5 year old plinks around on those for 30 minutes every month or so.

    Hardtarget on
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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    VR is not a grand any more than smartphones are a grand. You're literally outright repeating a lie, over and over and over.

    The Rift S has 98% of the function of the Index and costs a third.

    ApogeeElvenshae
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    None of these games were even made FOR VR. They were traditional games that had VR added on to them. I can't think of a single AAA made-for VR game.

    You know how long it takes to make an AAA game, right? You're aware they don't bang out a Witcher or Assassin's Creed in two years? VR has been out for literally three years. If a gigantic dev started a full AAA game in early 2017, they'd literally only just now maybe be done. Probably not, though.

    So all of this garbage being spouted by you, @cloudeagle @Trajan45, etc, is just that; garbage.

    AAA game devs haven't given up on VR, they haven't STARTED in VR yet. Because AAA games take a longass time to make! HL:Alyx has been in development since 2017!

    It's like you believe that all the AAA devs went hard into VR, got nowhere, and gave up! Based on what?

    Come on, man. It's been more than 3 years since Dev kits were out there. And 3 years is plenty long for AAA devs. If they wanted to, they'd be out by now.

    But they're not. And according to the Steam hardware survey, only 1% of Steam users have a VR helmet. I believe Steam has about 25 million users. So that's 250,000 people. That's uh....not a lot.

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    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Steam has about 200 million users.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    And I think it's safe to say that no AAA dev would even consider starting development on a giant game for the VR devkits. That's when all the tech demos were made.

    It's pretty obvious that they would wait until VR started to get some legs, which only really started to happen in late 2017-early 2018.

    Even Valve, intimately involved since the very beginning, didn't start development on full games until 2017.

  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    None of these games were even made FOR VR. They were traditional games that had VR added on to them. I can't think of a single AAA made-for VR game.

    You know how long it takes to make an AAA game, right? You're aware they don't bang out a Witcher or Assassin's Creed in two years? VR has been out for literally three years. If a gigantic dev started a full AAA game in early 2017, they'd literally only just now maybe be done. Probably not, though.

    So all of this garbage being spouted by you, @cloudeagle @Trajan45, etc, is just that; garbage.

    AAA game devs haven't given up on VR, they haven't STARTED in VR yet. Because AAA games take a longass time to make! HL:Alyx has been in development since 2017!

    It's like you believe that all the AAA devs went hard into VR, got nowhere, and gave up! Based on what?

    Come on, man. It's been more than 3 years since Dev kits were out there. And 3 years is plenty long for AAA devs. If they wanted to, they'd be out by now.

    But they're not. And according to the Steam hardware survey, only 1% of Steam users have a VR helmet. I believe Steam has about 25 million users. So that's 250,000 people. That's uh....not a lot.

    I'm replying when I said I wouldn't but I'll just repeat:
    PSVR: Blood and Truth, Astrobot, Until Dawn: Rush of Blood, Farpoint, Wipeout (Ok, bit of a cheat), Moss, Statik.
    PC/Both: Arizona Sunshine, Stormland (Insomniac, arguably AAA), Arktika 1 (4a Games-Metro series), Lone Echo (Ready at Dawn), Defector (I forgot about this and now need to buy it!), Asgard's Wrath, Pistol Whip, Beat Saber.

    Probably in tech demo category but still awesome games: I expect you to Die, Superhot VR, Robo Recall, Space Pirate Trainer, Job Simulator, Vacation Simulator, Rick and Morty, Psychonauts, Audica (by the Rock Band devs), Gorn, Rec Room, A Fisherman's Tale.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
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  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    that's super cool that you do this with your daughter and I'm not gonna tell you how to parent but I have a 3 year old and a 5 year old and there is no way in hell I'm gonna sit around on a couch with a VR helmet on, not communicating with them, and then swap. I already make sure I never play games around my kids, as far as they are concerned the only video game that exists is mario kart and mario odyssey and my 5 year old plinks around on those for 30 minutes every month or so.

    You're really ramping up the anti-social angle. It isn't. It's extremely fun to watch whatever the person is doing on TV. I've had a number of people over and we've played on the Quest/Rift and had a considerable amount of very social fun.

    And if you don't play games when your kids are around then I'm just curious what difference it makes if you've got a headset on or not? You're not isolated, in fact the mic picks up what's going on so you can hear what's going on around you (I forget the name of the feature but I know the Rift does it). The Rift-S offers a pass through button so you can see all around, just like if you paused a game.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
    DhalphirFiatilBig ClassyApogeeElvenshae
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    VR is not a grand any more than smartphones are a grand. You're literally outright repeating a lie, over and over and over.

    The Rift S has 98% of the function of the Index and costs a third.

    Facebook hardware is completely out of question for me. I would literally not touch it if it were free.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    VR is not a grand any more than smartphones are a grand. You're literally outright repeating a lie, over and over and over.

    The Rift S has 98% of the function of the Index and costs a third.

    Facebook hardware is completely out of question for me. I would literally not touch it if it were free.

    Okay, WMR and Samsung headsets are also in that pricing range.

    ApogeeElvenshae
  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    The Index is like a thousand dollars and it's the way valve intends the game to be played.

    I guess you could just buy the controllers, but you're still not getting the full experience if your headset doesn't do what the Index does.

    I mean, yeah.. You can "play" it on a $400 headset without any special controllers, but then it's probably just shit...

    Hey can you let me know how the Final Fantasy 7 remake turned out since you've somehow been to the future? Maybe Cyberpunk 2077 as well?

    How about we stop shitting on something we know very little about?

    Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
    Elvenshae
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    lol ok man you guys really zero in

    1 - I can't play VR because i would throw up in any VR situation
    2 - whether you guys think it's anti-social or not it's not a thing I want to be doing with my family at this point and I will never have a friend over to play vr games, it's already hard enough to have somebody over and just play NHL or something
    3 - valve's preferred solution costs 1300, a rift s costs 550, a quest costs 550, a Vive Cosmos costs 939, a Vive Pro Kit costs 2,150. so ya I think me throwing out a "grand" is decent shorthand

    So, the reason I'm sad is cause I can't play this cool new half-life story game.

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    DisruptedCapitalist
  • autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    The game trailer shows usage of pretty accurate hand controllers, and something like room scale? I bet you can play it without those, but it's not as good.

    Since I really, really loved HL, I'd love to play its successor the way it's meant to be played. But that way is the valve index.

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  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    VR is not a grand any more than smartphones are a grand. You're literally outright repeating a lie, over and over and over.

    The Rift S has 98% of the function of the Index and costs a third.

    They aren't lying, they are in a different market paying a different premium in a currency that is valued differently with an entirely different set of opportunity cost benefit ratios.

    Meanwhile, I am over here waiting for Games to go on 70-90% sales on Steam in a cramped apartment on a PC rig that was considered a "potato" when I got it years ago where the thing to take the most of my income each month is rent, food, and utilities. VR is abundantly not anywhere even in the price point of consideration for an entertainment hobby in my remote location, I get way more value with my daughter just by watching someone else stream games over Twitch or Youtube while we comment away together.

    Punishing the super powered Brain Slugs for killing Alyx's dad is just not in the cards for this British Columbian resident. I'll happily watch the people who stream this though who can afford it, looking forward to all the VR antics.

    Does seem odd that Valve thinks this couldn't be done with anything other than VR though, that whole example with the door partially open and tossing a grenade in and then slamming the door ... could have sworn we've already been doing things very similar or exactly like that for years in the ArmA and Rainbow Seige series? Especially in ArmA 3, the ways in which the player got to change their stance and interact with their enviroment was easily accomplished with KBAM?

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