They keep talking about the "Obama Coalition" like it's Voltron. No we need a new coalition. We need to move forward. That's how Obama was able to build a coalition, that's how he was able to win.
Obama coalition = black + brown + youth + educated. That's a winning coalition.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
+8
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
though he did just get biden to say he would free every person in jail for marijuana related crimes and have their records cleared and forgiven. I don't think he would have said that if he wasn't so thoroughly owned.
Then it got real uncomfortable when he claimed ownership of the black vote because “he comes from the black community” with harris and booker looking on with such withering stares.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I really don’t think I’m going to bother watching these debates anymore until Iowa. It’s pointless. My mind just isn’t going go to be changed from here to then.
I really don’t think I’m going to bother watching these debates anymore until Iowa. It’s pointless. My mind just isn’t going go to be changed from here to then.
I really don’t think I’m going to bother watching these debates anymore until Iowa. It’s pointless. My mind just isn’t going go to be changed from here to then.
It might not be changed if you watch them, but it definitely won't be if you tune everything out.
I really don’t think I’m going to bother watching these debates anymore until Iowa. It’s pointless. My mind just isn’t going go to be changed from here to then.
Eh, most people who have been paying attention do have their minds made up by now. Barring some shocking revelation.
For me, Warren is my Primary. If she is still in by my local contest, then she has my vote.
If she has dropped out then Sanders,
If he has dropped out then Castro,
If not him then Harris,
If not her then so on and so forth.
If it's down to Gabbard then I look at getting a passport and Emigrating to a foreign country.
So it's not surprising if one has been paying attention to feel like one's mind has been made up. For most of the people in this thread. It already is.
+7
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
Holy fucking hell, Biden. Unwrap yourself from Obama for ONE day, Jesus Christ!
(Context: He attacked Warren by saying the Obama administration was spotless and free of corruption).
I really don’t think I’m going to bother watching these debates anymore until Iowa. It’s pointless. My mind just isn’t going go to be changed from here to then.
It might not be changed if you watch them, but it definitely won't be if you tune everything out.
Eh I think if your mind isn't made up you'd do better just reading the news. Debates are mostly about posturing and sound bites and like its good to have a candidate that can hold their own in that environment.....eh.
Top four, nothing really changes.
Booker gets a lot of good press but doesn't see much of an impact. Maybe enough to get him in the next debate, but not to break into high single digits, much less actual contention.
Harris same deal but she's starting from a higher place.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Holy fucking hell, Biden. Unwrap yourself from Obama for ONE day, Jesus Christ!
(Context: He attacked Warren by saying the Obama administration was spotless and free of corruption).
He seems mad she dared to not give him "his due" over his work that helped her during the Obama admin.
I suspect he also knows it's all he's got in the end. As much as people blab about "electability", Biden's entire appeal is his association with Obama.
Holy fucking hell, Biden. Unwrap yourself from Obama for ONE day, Jesus Christ!
(Context: He attacked Warren by saying the Obama administration was spotless and free of corruption).
He seems mad she dared to not give him "his due" over his work that helped her during the Obama admin.
I suspect he also knows it's all he's got in the end. As much as people blab about "electability", Biden's entire appeal is his association with Obama.
Think Joe is going to get shot down by Iowa again. Latest polling numbers being what they are.
Holy fucking hell, Biden. Unwrap yourself from Obama for ONE day, Jesus Christ!
(Context: He attacked Warren by saying the Obama administration was spotless and free of corruption).
He seems mad she dared to not give him "his due" over his work that helped her during the Obama admin.
I suspect he also knows it's all he's got in the end. As much as people blab about "electability", Biden's entire appeal is his association with Obama.
Think Joe is going to get shot down by Iowa again. Latest polling numbers being what they are.
I don't think he cares. He just needs to ride out the bad press of those loses and hold on to his share of the black primary vote till like Super Tuesday and he's probably got the win.
I've said this before, but: the thing about Warren is she has a single unifying message and it is a GREAT message to take in a general election against Trump. We need an anti-corruption crusader.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Holy fucking hell, Biden. Unwrap yourself from Obama for ONE day, Jesus Christ!
(Context: He attacked Warren by saying the Obama administration was spotless and free of corruption).
He seems mad she dared to not give him "his due" over his work that helped her during the Obama admin.
I suspect he also knows it's all he's got in the end. As much as people blab about "electability", Biden's entire appeal is his association with Obama.
Think Joe is going to get shot down by Iowa again. Latest polling numbers being what they are.
I don't think he cares. He just needs to ride out the bad press of those loses and hold on to his share of the black primary vote till like Super Tuesday and he's probably got the win.
Could be a path there. Depends on who falls out and when and where voting consolidates. Dems might end up having the same problems the Pubs did in 16. Everybody believes its their time to take the nod, so nobody drops out. Clown car till the end.
Holy fucking hell, Biden. Unwrap yourself from Obama for ONE day, Jesus Christ!
(Context: He attacked Warren by saying the Obama administration was spotless and free of corruption).
He seems mad she dared to not give him "his due" over his work that helped her during the Obama admin.
I suspect he also knows it's all he's got in the end. As much as people blab about "electability", Biden's entire appeal is his association with Obama.
Think Joe is going to get shot down by Iowa again. Latest polling numbers being what they are.
I don't think he cares. He just needs to ride out the bad press of those loses and hold on to his share of the black primary vote till like Super Tuesday and he's probably got the win.
Could be a path there. Depends on who falls out and when and where voting consolidates. Dems might end up having the same problems the Pubs did in 16. Everybody believes its their time to take the nod, so nobody drops out. Clown car till the end.
It doesn't matter if they drop out or not if they can't get the votes. That's my point. Biden can afford to lose Iowa and NH as long as he keeps his share of the black vote up. At least, as far as I'm aware of how the numbers work out.
Holy fucking hell, Biden. Unwrap yourself from Obama for ONE day, Jesus Christ!
(Context: He attacked Warren by saying the Obama administration was spotless and free of corruption).
He seems mad she dared to not give him "his due" over his work that helped her during the Obama admin.
I suspect he also knows it's all he's got in the end. As much as people blab about "electability", Biden's entire appeal is his association with Obama.
Think Joe is going to get shot down by Iowa again. Latest polling numbers being what they are.
I don't think he cares. He just needs to ride out the bad press of those loses and hold on to his share of the black primary vote till like Super Tuesday and he's probably got the win.
Could be a path there. Depends on who falls out and when and where voting consolidates. Dems might end up having the same problems the Pubs did in 16. Everybody believes its their time to take the nod, so nobody drops out. Clown car till the end.
It doesn't matter if they drop out or not if they can't get the votes. That's my point. Biden can afford to lose Iowa and NH as long as he keeps his share of the black vote up. At least, as far as I'm aware of how the numbers work out.
Well I was thinking about how the candidates would end up splitting the vote. If there are plenty of candidates who refuse to drop and Biden retains a strong hold on a decent but not necessarily commanding share, he could have his path that way.
Are Dem primaries winner take all or proportional?
Holy fucking hell, Biden. Unwrap yourself from Obama for ONE day, Jesus Christ!
(Context: He attacked Warren by saying the Obama administration was spotless and free of corruption).
He seems mad she dared to not give him "his due" over his work that helped her during the Obama admin.
I suspect he also knows it's all he's got in the end. As much as people blab about "electability", Biden's entire appeal is his association with Obama.
Think Joe is going to get shot down by Iowa again. Latest polling numbers being what they are.
I don't think he cares. He just needs to ride out the bad press of those loses and hold on to his share of the black primary vote till like Super Tuesday and he's probably got the win.
Could be a path there. Depends on who falls out and when and where voting consolidates. Dems might end up having the same problems the Pubs did in 16. Everybody believes its their time to take the nod, so nobody drops out. Clown car till the end.
It doesn't matter if they drop out or not if they can't get the votes. That's my point. Biden can afford to lose Iowa and NH as long as he keeps his share of the black vote up. At least, as far as I'm aware of how the numbers work out.
Well I was thinking about how the candidates would end up splitting the vote. If there are plenty of candidates who refuse to drop and Biden retains a strong hold on a decent but not necessarily commanding share, he could have his path that way.
Are Dem primaries winner take all or proportional?
Proportional
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
When Buttigieg talked about HIS CHRISTIAN FAITH there were groans and I managed to feel kinship with the crowd.
Ladies and gentlemen, your LGBT representative – Pete Buttigieg.
+2
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
edited November 2019
There are a ton of people who are both LGBTQ and have religion/faith.
Having a democrat talk about christianity and how that isn't exclusively the domain of conservatives is kind of important. 65% of americans identify as such. It is shitty that people think that the only home open to folks who are christian is the republican party because it just plain is not true and cannot be true if we want to win stuff nationally.
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
There are a ton of people who are both LGBTQ and have religion/faith.
Having a democrat talk about christianity and how that isn't exclusively the domain of conservatives is kind of important. 65% of americans identify as such. It is shitty that people think that the only home open to folks who are christian is the republican party because it just plain is not true and cannot be true if we want to win stuff nationally.
I guess. As a pretty strong believer in secularism, though, every time a candidate goes hard to talk about their religion or faith, it just makes me think of Republicans wanting to limit access to birth control, deny evolution, promote creationism, promote abstinence at the detriment of instruction on safe sex, specifically promote Christianity at the expense of other religions in public institutions, and ban abortion. I guess that association is on me, but it still makes me kind of uncomfortable.
+8
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
edited November 2019
I just love how many boxes Pete checks
-Young but not in a hip way
-Gay but not in a queer way
-Smart but mostly as a matter of knowing how to say whatever people want to hear
-Not actually progressive but makes a progressive face sometimes
-Mean and bad at hiding it
-Mayor of a small town that has done OK but not great
-Boundlessly ambitious
-Snake but with good, smooth skin
They keep talking about the "Obama Coalition" like it's Voltron. No we need a new coalition. We need to move forward. That's how Obama was able to build a coalition, that's how he was able to win.
Obama coalition = black + brown + youth + educated. That's a winning coalition.
Obama put a ton of effort into rural America to win enough uneducated whites too. One of his biggest criticisms of Hillary's campaign. They aren't Obama-Trump voters for nothing.
Right now Trump's weakness isn't rural America though, its the suburbs. Outreach to repub/independents there is going to look very different than the traditonal portion of white working class. That's what makes me really wonder where sanders/warren would be decent in most years, they might not do so well in this particular election, because short of a recession, Obama-Tump voters won't be ready to leave Trump.
Obama-Trump voters largely just wanted change. That means they're ripe for plucking back, and also that a less business as usual candidate might be more effective at wooing them.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Annie Grayer covers 2020 for CNN. Deval Patrick canceled an event after no one showed up, I guess that's your fate when the only thing I know about you is you made life easier for your sisters rapist and he raped again.
This, in all sincerity, as a theatre kid, makes me think less of him. Two people is an audience! The show must go on.
Obama-Trump voters largely just wanted change. That means they're ripe for plucking back, and also that a less business as usual candidate might be more effective at wooing them.
Still listening through, but I was slightly disappointed that Warren didn't explicitly point out, in her early exchange with Booker, that the programs the wealth tax will pay for will do more to help regular people become entrepreneurs than the programs paid for by the lesser revenue brought in by Booker's plan.
Pete will probably tank before the Iowa primary, which is . . . . Christ! Three months out still. Probably what we're seeing is the idiot donor class trying to prop up someone that will let them continue doing the same old shit. So right now Pete is probably polling well because he has been built up as the next Biden (likely never-Warren) and people haven't really looked much into his record. Once people start looking into his record they are likely going to decide they don't like him. One he is a phony and changes his position to whatever he thinks will get him votes, dude doesn't strike me as having any convictions other than what gets him votes, which has some similarities to Trump's campaigning style, so likely going to turn a ton of people off. He already has a record of essentially deferring to shitheads, when he sacked his city's only senior black officer (sorry can't remember the rank the guy had) and the racist he deferred to openly crowed about "putting white people back in charge." I see that hurting him with some major demographics, once it gets more widely known. That is probably a massive red flag for black voters, he didn't even bother to do a proper investigation and I seriously doubt the racism was unknown, Pete just didn't care to acknowledge it existed when he made his decision. Also won't sell well to anyone that wants to undo Trump bullshit ASAP because the reality is, Trump has brought people on board into various positions. Some of the goons he brought in can be fired once he is out and I'd wager most of the ones in positions that Trump cares about, even minutely, should probably be shit canned. Then there are ones that probably could be fired, but you'd need cause, which means putting in effort and Pete has already shown he isn't willing to do that. Then there are some where we are stuck with them until their term runs out, they quit or commit some crime or offense that results in them having to be fired. I have zero faith that Pete will take those people to task and let them do as they please.
IMO both Warren and Sanders have narrative goal that is likely to get voters engaged. Probably good enough to get Trump-Obama voters; especially, the ones that really aren't happy with Trump. After that, suburban voters are probably the next best batch to go after since they are leaving the GOP as evidenced by the 2018 and 2019 elections. The message both are pushing probably could see some success in rural areas, looking through the VA election results, it does appear that the democrats aren't completely hosed in rural America. The trick is finding something worth campaigning on that is already valued by the more reliable democratic voters, that rural folk would find more appealing than whatever horseshit the republicans are selling. They kind of need that, otherwise they'll end up dealing with the same crap Obama had to deal with, where republicans in Congress wouldn't let anything really worthwhile pass.
I still think the main thing that will turn off Obama-Trump voters from Sanders/Warren is their healthcare proposals, which invoke Medicare in a country where that's a bad word. Propose the exact same thing with a different name and they'll get way more people on board.
Posts
Obama coalition = black + brown + youth + educated. That's a winning coalition.
Then it got real uncomfortable when he claimed ownership of the black vote because “he comes from the black community” with harris and booker looking on with such withering stares.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
and he keeps on chugging along
Gabbard replies by calling him a coward.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I'm shocked. SHOCKED.
It might not be changed if you watch them, but it definitely won't be if you tune everything out.
Eh, most people who have been paying attention do have their minds made up by now. Barring some shocking revelation.
For me, Warren is my Primary. If she is still in by my local contest, then she has my vote.
If she has dropped out then Sanders,
If he has dropped out then Castro,
If not him then Harris,
If not her then so on and so forth.
If it's down to Gabbard then I look at getting a passport and Emigrating to a foreign country.
So it's not surprising if one has been paying attention to feel like one's mind has been made up. For most of the people in this thread. It already is.
(Context: He attacked Warren by saying the Obama administration was spotless and free of corruption).
Eh I think if your mind isn't made up you'd do better just reading the news. Debates are mostly about posturing and sound bites and like its good to have a candidate that can hold their own in that environment.....eh.
Top four, nothing really changes.
Booker gets a lot of good press but doesn't see much of an impact. Maybe enough to get him in the next debate, but not to break into high single digits, much less actual contention.
Harris same deal but she's starting from a higher place.
He seems mad she dared to not give him "his due" over his work that helped her during the Obama admin.
I suspect he also knows it's all he's got in the end. As much as people blab about "electability", Biden's entire appeal is his association with Obama.
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
Think Joe is going to get shot down by Iowa again. Latest polling numbers being what they are.
I don't think he cares. He just needs to ride out the bad press of those loses and hold on to his share of the black primary vote till like Super Tuesday and he's probably got the win.
Could be a path there. Depends on who falls out and when and where voting consolidates. Dems might end up having the same problems the Pubs did in 16. Everybody believes its their time to take the nod, so nobody drops out. Clown car till the end.
It doesn't matter if they drop out or not if they can't get the votes. That's my point. Biden can afford to lose Iowa and NH as long as he keeps his share of the black vote up. At least, as far as I'm aware of how the numbers work out.
Well I was thinking about how the candidates would end up splitting the vote. If there are plenty of candidates who refuse to drop and Biden retains a strong hold on a decent but not necessarily commanding share, he could have his path that way.
Are Dem primaries winner take all or proportional?
Proportional
Ladies and gentlemen, your LGBT representative – Pete Buttigieg.
Having a democrat talk about christianity and how that isn't exclusively the domain of conservatives is kind of important. 65% of americans identify as such. It is shitty that people think that the only home open to folks who are christian is the republican party because it just plain is not true and cannot be true if we want to win stuff nationally.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I guess. As a pretty strong believer in secularism, though, every time a candidate goes hard to talk about their religion or faith, it just makes me think of Republicans wanting to limit access to birth control, deny evolution, promote creationism, promote abstinence at the detriment of instruction on safe sex, specifically promote Christianity at the expense of other religions in public institutions, and ban abortion. I guess that association is on me, but it still makes me kind of uncomfortable.
-Young but not in a hip way
-Gay but not in a queer way
-Smart but mostly as a matter of knowing how to say whatever people want to hear
-Not actually progressive but makes a progressive face sometimes
-Mean and bad at hiding it
-Mayor of a small town that has done OK but not great
-Boundlessly ambitious
-Snake but with good, smooth skin
The perfect candidate really
Obama put a ton of effort into rural America to win enough uneducated whites too. One of his biggest criticisms of Hillary's campaign. They aren't Obama-Trump voters for nothing.
Right now Trump's weakness isn't rural America though, its the suburbs. Outreach to repub/independents there is going to look very different than the traditonal portion of white working class. That's what makes me really wonder where sanders/warren would be decent in most years, they might not do so well in this particular election, because short of a recession, Obama-Tump voters won't be ready to leave Trump.
I think Obama was change Trump was fear
What's a two tier system of justice?
I've given up on digging through MSNBCs clips >_<
The Rachel Maddow Podcast has the full audio, that's what I've been listening to.
https://www.podbean.com/podcast-detail/ykenj-11a84/The-Rachel-Maddow-Show-Podcast
Still listening through, but I was slightly disappointed that Warren didn't explicitly point out, in her early exchange with Booker, that the programs the wealth tax will pay for will do more to help regular people become entrepreneurs than the programs paid for by the lesser revenue brought in by Booker's plan.
Maybe that was just avoiding rhetorical pitfalls.
IMO both Warren and Sanders have narrative goal that is likely to get voters engaged. Probably good enough to get Trump-Obama voters; especially, the ones that really aren't happy with Trump. After that, suburban voters are probably the next best batch to go after since they are leaving the GOP as evidenced by the 2018 and 2019 elections. The message both are pushing probably could see some success in rural areas, looking through the VA election results, it does appear that the democrats aren't completely hosed in rural America. The trick is finding something worth campaigning on that is already valued by the more reliable democratic voters, that rural folk would find more appealing than whatever horseshit the republicans are selling. They kind of need that, otherwise they'll end up dealing with the same crap Obama had to deal with, where republicans in Congress wouldn't let anything really worthwhile pass.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.