[Star Wars] Elan Sleazebaggano went home and became a family man

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  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    his boat is not dreamy enough

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Maybe, in a setting called star WARS you're gonna find some level of militarism with most large groups.

    That's not why people didn't like Travis.
    It was more the constant stream of, "My guys are the best guys, and everyone else sucks by comparison."
    It was the writing equivalent of "LIGHTING BOLT! LIGHTING BOLT! LIGHTING BOLT!"

    I mean that's definitely understandable. It's more that I'm not surprised a setting based in galactic war might be inundated with authors appreciative of militarism.

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Maybe, in a setting called star WARS you're gonna find some level of militarism with most large groups.

    That's not why people didn't like Travis.
    It was more the constant stream of, "My guys are the best guys, and everyone else sucks by comparison."
    It was the writing equivalent of "LIGHTING BOLT! LIGHTING BOLT! LIGHTING BOLT!"

    ok imagine a tabletop roleplaying game where at some point everyone gets to sit in the game master's chair and do their thing.

    Her thing was pretty much calling down the other players and then killing their PCs.

    With the collaborative nature of a universe whose stories are shared by multiple authors, you kind of have to be flexible. Make your guys awesome sure, but don't do it by shitting on the stuff that other people enjoy, even if you think the jedi actually suck. The objection to traviss was never that she made the mandos super duper awesome, it's that she made everyone else shit. She was a terrible collaborator who seemed to think that the only way to enjoy star wars was her way.

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  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    I haven't read any of her books but her background and the descriptions I'm seeing of her work really make it seem like I am exactly the wrong audience for it

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
  • MysstMysst King Monkey of Hedonism IslandRegistered User regular
    mandos are just klingons

    klingons are great

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Is that Luke? I thought it was going to turn out to be some guy masquerading as the legendary Luke Skywalker.

  • ElbasunuElbasunu Registered User regular
    These travis takes still blowing my mind. Literally every SW author does this stuff. They all had their pet characters and settings.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Elbasunu wrote: »
    These travis takes still blowing my mind. Literally every SW author does this stuff. They all had their pet characters and settings.

    Like Corran Hor-*dies*

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  • EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    Is that Luke? I thought it was going to turn out to be some guy masquerading as the legendary Luke Skywalker.

    Nah they already did that for last Jedi.

  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    Elbasunu wrote: »
    These travis takes still blowing my mind. Literally every SW author does this stuff. They all had their pet characters and settings.

    I think the criticism is somewhat warranted, but looking back, the sheer fervor of hate that “Star Wars” fans heaped on Traviss was stoked by some good ole fashioned sexism.

    Transporter on
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  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Is that Luke? I thought it was going to turn out to be some guy masquerading as the legendary Luke Skywalker.

    Nah they already did that for last Jedi.
    :spin:

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  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    Elbasunu wrote: »
    These travis takes still blowing my mind. Literally every SW author does this stuff. They all had their pet characters and settings.

    I think the criticism is somewhat warranted, but looking back, the sheer fervor of hate that “Star Wars” fans heaped on Traviss was stoked by some good ole fashioned sexism.

    Maybe. I vividly remember the feeling of "this writing is good, but the actual thing being written about is so distasteful that I dont like it."

    And other authors with their pet characters allow them to get dunked on. Corran gets played all the time, mostly when hes at his most egotistical. Thrawn makes multiple mistakes and pays for them. Traviss mandos are not only unstoppable, everyone also looks up to them and they are most handsome and always right

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  • JimothyJimothy Not in front of the fox he's with the owlRegistered User regular
    Is the idea that Black Sun becomes Crimson Dawn? Is that ever made explicit?

  • JimothyJimothy Not in front of the fox he's with the owlRegistered User regular
    These spice dealer aliens have a rad design

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    Elbasunu wrote: »
    These travis takes still blowing my mind. Literally every SW author does this stuff. They all had their pet characters and settings.

    I think the criticism is somewhat warranted, but looking back, the sheer fervor of hate that “Star Wars” fans heaped on Traviss was stoked by some good ole fashioned sexism.

    Nah. I don't like her, but I will also dunk on Zahn (who it seems everyone else loves) and, of course, KJA stands far above (or below) both of them at the very apex (or the nadir) of the pyramid of shit.

    The dirty secret of the old EU is that a lot of it was not very good. Just, some of it was worse.

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  • ElbasunuElbasunu Registered User regular
    I know I'm also in the minority with the KJA books, because I loved them, even though they were ridiculous.

    Like yeah, let's make a new jedi acadamy and find new force people. This is fun. Woah a secret Imperial facility neat!

    Then they definitely killed like a ton of people and the consequences of that were bizzarre but otherwise they were fun to me.

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  • Moth 13Moth 13 Volcaregular Registered User regular
    Jimothy wrote: »
    These spice dealer aliens have a rad design

    The Pikes? Yeah they're great. Apparently they'll be showing up in the new season too.

    Jimothy
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    Somewhere in my image collection is a demotivational poster with the Essential Guide's diagram of the Sun Crusher and the text "Go ahead, you could hardly do worse."

    (I might argue that JJ, among others, took this as a challenge...)

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Somewhere in my image collection is a demotivational poster with the Essential Guide's diagram of the Sun Crusher and the text "Go ahead, you could hardly do worse."

    (I might argue that JJ, among others, took this as a challenge...)

    *checks notes*

    Dark saber.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Somewhere in my image collection is a demotivational poster with the Essential Guide's diagram of the Sun Crusher and the text "Go ahead, you could hardly do worse."

    (I might argue that JJ, among others, took this as a challenge...)

    *checks notes*

    Dark saber.

    Which one? :P

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Somewhere in my image collection is a demotivational poster with the Essential Guide's diagram of the Sun Crusher and the text "Go ahead, you could hardly do worse."

    (I might argue that JJ, among others, took this as a challenge...)

    *checks notes*

    Dark saber.

    Which one? :P

    The one what is a shitty super weapon.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Somewhere in my image collection is a demotivational poster with the Essential Guide's diagram of the Sun Crusher and the text "Go ahead, you could hardly do worse."

    (I might argue that JJ, among others, took this as a challenge...)

    *checks notes*

    Dark saber.

    Which one? :P

    The one what is a shitty super weapon.

    Right, I figured. The other one's just a slightly silly super kewl Mando holy relic. :rotate:

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  • JimothyJimothy Not in front of the fox he's with the owlRegistered User regular
    Moth 13 wrote: »
    Jimothy wrote: »
    These spice dealer aliens have a rad design

    The Pikes? Yeah they're great. Apparently they'll be showing up in the new season too.

    Yeah, cool!

    Hey, this Maul/Death Watch arc is Palpatine’s plan in micro! Neat!

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  • Moth 13Moth 13 Volcaregular Registered User regular
    Jimothy wrote: »
    Moth 13 wrote: »
    Jimothy wrote: »
    These spice dealer aliens have a rad design

    The Pikes? Yeah they're great. Apparently they'll be showing up in the new season too.

    Yeah, cool!

    Hey, this Maul/Death Watch arc is Palpatine’s plan in micro! Neat!

    Yeah the creators talked about how this arc is Maul talking the Sith training and tactics he learned as Palpatine's apprentice and putting them to use.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    Also, and I find it deeply ironic how this ended up playing out in the ST: I mocked the old EU's "Luke shipping" roundly and at length. All the authors jockeying to pair him up with their characters always seemed ridiculous and/or "Hollywood" to me. (Zahn eventually won that particular contest with Mara; didn't make it less dumb.)

    IMO, I always figured his archetypical path was pretty much what we saw in the new movies (but without a preceding and, depending on who you ask, OOC massive fuck-up): wander off into the suns' set, find some remote planet, and wait for students to start showing up for him to train. Be the wise (but not bitter and jaded) Old Master for a new generation. But of course the EU authors couldn't just leave him alone like that, nope nope.

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  • JimothyJimothy Not in front of the fox he's with the owlRegistered User regular
    You know who sucks?

    Ki Adi Mundi!

    “We can’t help Satine, Mandolore is neutral!”

    Fuck off!

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  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    In my opinion, Luke is gay.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    -Tal wrote: »
    In my opinion, Luke is gay.

    ehhh... some sort of queer, maybe, but he sure seemed awful twitterpated over Leia in the first movie, and a little bit in the second.
    (I suppose if you really wanted to, you could retcon that as him mistaking the true, then-unknown nature of their connection through the Force as romantic feelings, but...)

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Elbasunu wrote: »
    These travis takes still blowing my mind. Literally every SW author does this stuff. They all had their pet characters and settings.

    Traviss had some laughable napkin math about the Clone Wars that had it that there were 1000 Clone troopers total or something bizarre like that. When people pointed out that couldn't possibly be right, it got so heated she eventually called her detractors Nazis. And then got fired before completing her series. You must have been really insulated to hear about none of this.

    Unrelated to Star Wars stuff about Traviss:
    She also wrote books about Gears of War that were not too bad at first but then you could see the symptoms of what happened in Star Wars happening again. She got so wrapped up in her bonds of comradrie themes that she... forgot the basic facts of the storyline. So she wrote a direct Gears 1 prequel where Hoffman still respects and loves Marcus after his court martial and is doing his best to keep him alive. Which is a FASCINATING revisionist take on the game story that begins with Marcus having been deliberately left for dead in the prison when even other prisoners had been rescued from the Locust invasion. Dom breaks orders and goes alone to save Marcus before it's too late and they need Gears so badly Command just allows it and reintegrates Marcus into the military. When Hoffman sees him, he all but spits in his face.

    Then there's her Halo stuff which seems really sympathetic and impressed by Naval Intelligence which is unquestionably the most evil human force in the Halo canon.

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  • EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    Elbasunu wrote: »
    These travis takes still blowing my mind. Literally every SW author does this stuff. They all had their pet characters and settings.

    Traviss had some laughable napkin math about the Clone Wars that had it that there were 1000 Clone troopers total or something bizarre like that. When people pointed out that couldn't possibly be right, it got so heated she eventually called her detractors Nazis. And then got fired before completing her series. You must have been really insulated to hear about none of this.

    Unrelated to Star Wars stuff about Traviss:
    She also wrote books about Gears of War that were not too bad at first but then you could see the symptoms of what happened in Star Wars happening again. She got so wrapped up in her bonds of comradrie themes that she... forgot the basic facts of the storyline. So she wrote a direct Gears 1 prequel where Hoffman still respects and loves Marcus after his court martial and is doing his best to keep him alive. Which is a FASCINATING revisionist take on the game story that begins with Marcus having been deliberately left for dead in the prison when even other prisoners had been rescued from the Locust invasion. Dom breaks orders and goes alone to save Marcus before it's too late and they need Gears so badly Command just allows it and reintegrates Marcus into the military. When Hoffman sees him, he all but spits in his face.

    Then there's her Halo stuff which seems really sympathetic and impressed by Naval Intelligence which is unquestionably the most evil human force in the Halo canon.

    She seems like a balanced and rational individual.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    ...did you just call someone insulated because they didn't know all the gossip about the behind-the-scenes action of a Star Wars EU writer?

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Elbasunu wrote: »
    These travis takes still blowing my mind. Literally every SW author does this stuff. They all had their pet characters and settings.

    Traviss had some laughable napkin math about the Clone Wars that had it that there were 1000 Clone troopers total or something bizarre like that. When people pointed out that couldn't possibly be right, it got so heated she eventually called her detractors Nazis. And then got fired before completing her series. You must have been really insulated to hear about none of this.

    It is trivially easy to avoid the drama that befalls a Star Wars EU writer.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    The common thread does seem to be that she falls in love with some characters or faction that Can Do No Wrong and share a bond that goes beyond etc etc.

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  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. i did meet some of the most insufferable people but, they also met meRegistered User regular
    for starters, the whole EU is bad anyway, so i wasn't reading it to begin with

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    ...did you just call someone insulated because they didn't know all the gossip about the behind-the-scenes action of a Star Wars EU writer?

    Not that they didn't know but that they're shocked that there isn't universal acclaim about that author. This comes up every time I've heard that author being discussed.

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  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    for starters, the whole EU is bad anyway, so i wasn't reading it to begin with

    I love that Disney's new jam has been dunking on that exact idea.
    "Thought Darth Maul was DEAD? Well he's in a live action movie again! Watch Rebels you SCRUB."

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    for starters, the whole EU is bad anyway, so i wasn't reading it to begin with

    I love that Disney's new jam has been dunking on that exact idea.
    "Thought Darth Maul was DEAD? Well he's in a live action movie again! Watch Rebels you SCRUB."

    Lucas brought back Maul before he sold the rights to Disney.

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  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Tons of people define EU as "anything that's not the films". No one really cared I think that GL did it first. It's still a fairly major villain being brought back in a cartoon. One that was definitively killed off in the movie.

  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    for starters, the whole EU is bad anyway, so i wasn't reading it to begin with

    I love that Disney's new jam has been dunking on that exact idea.
    "Thought Darth Maul was DEAD? Well he's in a live action movie again! Watch Rebels you SCRUB."

    I was very ready for a reatake on the Star Wars EU. There were some gems in there, but there was also a lot of crap. Sadly, the Disney canon hasn't been any better on the quality/crap ratio, but now everything is much more tied to the movie canon, which causes problems with the the movies very reminiscent of World of Warcraft's "it's in a book/comic" storytelling technique.

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  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    I'd argue at this point, Disney has bad films making trouble for a strong EU.

    What in Disney canon is actually bad? A mediocre novel here and there? Comics have been pretty consistently strong, afaik, games are good, Mandalorian and Rebels are excellent. Resistance isn't great entertainment if you're older than eight sometimes, but it doesn't do anything egregious to canon.

    Kamar on
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