Right, he changed the story and now the audience is expected to contextualize previous scenes differently than their obvious intent
I guess but even by the point that episode 5 was released the intended read of that scene is that Leia and Han are into each other and she is only kissing Luke to bother him.
And Luke is like "yeah, mark that one on MY side of the chalkboard, buddy" at Han.
Riddles in the Dark like entirely changed in post LOTR editions of The Hobbit
Not ENTIRELY changed, there is one major paragraph revision and a small handful of edited words outside of that, primarily at the end of the riddle game.
Edit I think there’s a website out there that documents the changes, which were all in service of the notion that the ring was special in some way rather than a more classical magic ring.
Right, he changed the story and now the audience is expected to contextualize previous scenes differently than their obvious intent
I guess but even by the point that episode 5 was released the intended read of that scene is that Leia and Han are into each other and she is only kissing Luke to bother him.
And Luke is like "yeah, mark that one on MY side of the chalkboard, buddy" at Han.
That is a reading you could have I guess but to me it seems like Luke is pretty clear on what is happening and is just having fun at Han's expense.
I mean yeah he probably enjoyed the kiss from the women he wasn't raised with and didn't know he was related.
Right, he changed the story and now the audience is expected to contextualize previous scenes differently than their obvious intent
I guess but even by the point that episode 5 was released the intended read of that scene is that Leia and Han are into each other and she is only kissing Luke to bother him.
And Luke is like "yeah, mark that one on MY side of the chalkboard, buddy" at Han.
That is a reading you could have I guess but to me it seems like Luke is pretty clear on what is happening and is just having fun at Han's expense.
I mean yeah he probably enjoyed the kiss from the women he wasn't raised with and didn't know he was related.
JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
I think there’s a misunderstanding here. No one thinks it’s some intentionally scandalous incest plot.
The whole reason that scene is a big deal is because it is the most obvious evidence against the idea that Lucas had some grand plan and all the Skywalker family twists were anything but last minute swerves
in conclusion, episode 6 massively harmed the series and everything since having to write around it has sucked, and its effects on episode 4 and 5 are worse than adding in jabba the hut cgi
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JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
I dunno that I agree with that. The sister retcon is bad and the attempts to cover it and the father retcon are weak and silly, but something I find strangely respectable about Star Wars as an institution (and something that gives me hope for it in a post-RoS world) is its tendency to further incorporate the weaker stuff into the whole rather than ignore it.
Even Jar Jar is getting rehabilitated kinda by giving Best a hosting gig
I did not like how the sequels basically pretended that the prequels didn't happen
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JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
I thought TFA understandably leaned away from them (though there is a brief recognition of Clone Troopers), but TLJ names Sidious and alludes to how the Jedi fell, RoS featured Mustafar, a full line from RotS. Mustafar, Bail, the cut Mon Mothma actor are in R1. Maul is in Solo and was clearly planned for more. Ewan was used in TFA and is getting a show
They could go further with it, sure, but I’m impressed that they reference the prequels as much as they do
What bothers me isn’t changing a work after it is “finished” or “released” although I do not believe this is particularly good for an artist of any kind, because if I kept editing things because I thought I could make them better I’d never stop and would eventually go insane
What bothers me is that the different versions of that work, in particular the one that was “important” in the context of film history, are erased and must be preserved haphazardly by outside actors and not the people best equipped to do so, solely because the original author of the work (if such a thing can be claimed in a collaborative medium) doesn’t like it anymore
That’s probably more the history nerd in me than the artist though
Yeah, if I could actually have the Not Special Editions in restored hi-def then I would not give as much of a shit about this.
We have gotten director's cuts or extended versions, etc., of many films from many directors, but more often than not the original versions are still made available to those who want them.
Man fuck you rebels, sad Ashoka makes me sad. That said that was an excellent episode.
No but seriously how Rey is a movie character and Ashoka is from an alleged child’s cartoon just perplexes the absolute fuck out of me. Warming up to Ezra , appreciate how he and Kanan ( who was just a Padawan and a very young ) struggle and don’t just excel at everything. Hera and zeb are cool too. Neutral on opinionated alt girl mandolorian , hasn’t really don’t anything for me to like/hate her yet.
Edit - Yo is that who I think it is slinking around in the dark!? That’s fucking awesome.
I dunno that I agree with that. The sister retcon is bad and the attempts to cover it and the father retcon are weak and silly, but something I find strangely respectable about Star Wars as an institution (and something that gives me hope for it in a post-RoS world) is its tendency to further incorporate the weaker stuff into the whole rather than ignore it.
Even Jar Jar is getting rehabilitated kinda by giving Best a hosting gig
I definitely believe there is something vastly underrated about taking the less-appreciated material in a given story and finding ways to make better use of those ideas rather than stripping them out of the growth mass.
I’m realize I’m moving into odd shorthands about this stuff but I’d argue it makes a better story. It’s more honest. It encourages better storytelling craft. It might even be more ethical.
+1
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
Luke's father is the most successful retcon of all time, can you imagine how excited they were when they realized they could make obi-wan's speech work, and guiness' performance even enhanced it
Luke's sister went... less smoothly
This is also why I'm sympathetic to george's special editions, he already altered the course of those movies so much in the 80s so why not keep patching them
Introducing retcons in a sequel is not at all comparable to altering scenes and adding new scenes on re-release.
Is it anything like changing the title on rerelease?
Speaking of, I wonder how many people, during the period between Empire’s release and the Star Wars rerelease adding “Episode IV ANH,” thought that the first movie was the first episode and 2-4 would fill in the period after SW and before Empire
I'm pretty sure the opening crawl said Episode IV the entire time for ANH. I only watched it on laserdisc at my grandparent's house about 300 times once or twice every weekend over a period of years.
And I until then, I watched all of these once, when they first released, until HBO and videotape came out, and I don't remember ever having a problem remembering which character was which. I was an adult when the PT came out though.
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
I still have the OT in all its unedited glory on videotape.
I'm so afraid to watch them. What if the tape player eats them?
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Luke's father is the most successful retcon of all time, can you imagine how excited they were when they realized they could make obi-wan's speech work, and guiness' performance even enhanced it
Luke's sister went... less smoothly
This is also why I'm sympathetic to george's special editions, he already altered the course of those movies so much in the 80s so why not keep patching them
Introducing retcons in a sequel is not at all comparable to altering scenes and adding new scenes on re-release.
Is it anything like changing the title on rerelease?
Speaking of, I wonder how many people, during the period between Empire’s release and the Star Wars rerelease adding “Episode IV ANH,” thought that the first movie was the first episode and 2-4 would fill in the period after SW and before Empire
I'm pretty sure the opening crawl said Episode IV the entire time for ANH. I only watched it on laserdisc at my grandparent's house about 300 times once or twice every weekend over a period of years.
And I until then, I watched all of these once, when they first released, until HBO and videotape came out, and I don't remember ever having a problem remembering which character was which. I was an adult when the PT came out though.
The opening crawl did not saw "Episode IV" or "A New Hope" when it was originally released in theaters.
On all home versions and subsequent re-releases, it has been added.
This little detail is why ANH has never been added to the library of Congress, despite being on the initial list of movies to get inducted.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Luke's father is the most successful retcon of all time, can you imagine how excited they were when they realized they could make obi-wan's speech work, and guiness' performance even enhanced it
Luke's sister went... less smoothly
This is also why I'm sympathetic to george's special editions, he already altered the course of those movies so much in the 80s so why not keep patching them
Introducing retcons in a sequel is not at all comparable to altering scenes and adding new scenes on re-release.
Is it anything like changing the title on rerelease?
Speaking of, I wonder how many people, during the period between Empire’s release and the Star Wars rerelease adding “Episode IV ANH,” thought that the first movie was the first episode and 2-4 would fill in the period after SW and before Empire
I'm pretty sure the opening crawl said Episode IV the entire time for ANH. I only watched it on laserdisc at my grandparent's house about 300 times once or twice every weekend over a period of years.
And I until then, I watched all of these once, when they first released, until HBO and videotape came out, and I don't remember ever having a problem remembering which character was which. I was an adult when the PT came out though.
The opening crawl did not saw "Episode IV" or "A New Hope" when it was originally released in theaters.
On all home versions and subsequent re-releases, it has been added.
This little detail is why ANH has never been added to the library of Congress, despite being on the initial list of movies to get inducted.
Ah, it was added to the theatrical re-release in 1981. Early enough I wouldn't have known about the change. I was 10.
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And Luke is like "yeah, mark that one on MY side of the chalkboard, buddy" at Han.
Not ENTIRELY changed, there is one major paragraph revision and a small handful of edited words outside of that, primarily at the end of the riddle game.
Edit I think there’s a website out there that documents the changes, which were all in service of the notion that the ring was special in some way rather than a more classical magic ring.
Edit yeah, here you go, side by side comparisons.
http://www.ringgame.net/riddles.html
That is a reading you could have I guess but to me it seems like Luke is pretty clear on what is happening and is just having fun at Han's expense.
I mean yeah he probably enjoyed the kiss from the women he wasn't raised with and didn't know he was related.
I really don't care.
that's... pretty much what I meant?
*shrug*
and han knows it's weird!!!
The whole reason that scene is a big deal is because it is the most obvious evidence against the idea that Lucas had some grand plan and all the Skywalker family twists were anything but last minute swerves
Even Jar Jar is getting rehabilitated kinda by giving Best a hosting gig
They could go further with it, sure, but I’m impressed that they reference the prequels as much as they do
Yeah, if I could actually have the Not Special Editions in restored hi-def then I would not give as much of a shit about this.
We have gotten director's cuts or extended versions, etc., of many films from many directors, but more often than not the original versions are still made available to those who want them.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
No but seriously how Rey is a movie character and Ashoka is from an alleged child’s cartoon just perplexes the absolute fuck out of me. Warming up to Ezra , appreciate how he and Kanan ( who was just a Padawan and a very young ) struggle and don’t just excel at everything. Hera and zeb are cool too. Neutral on opinionated alt girl mandolorian , hasn’t really don’t anything for me to like/hate her yet.
Edit - Yo is that who I think it is slinking around in the dark!? That’s fucking awesome.
“Revenge is not the Jedi way”
Really Anakin ? You sure you are the right person to preach this ? Hmm? Super loving this whole arc.
I like the concept but I’m always kind of bored with the result and I’m not sure they could actually write anything there that I’d be actively into
I really enjoyed them , thought they were a neat here is what we are going for before the episode.
I definitely believe there is something vastly underrated about taking the less-appreciated material in a given story and finding ways to make better use of those ideas rather than stripping them out of the growth mass.
I’m realize I’m moving into odd shorthands about this stuff but I’d argue it makes a better story. It’s more honest. It encourages better storytelling craft. It might even be more ethical.
Didn't a different writer have more to do with ESB? And that made the tone darker and more complex?
I'm pretty sure the opening crawl said Episode IV the entire time for ANH. I only watched it on laserdisc at my grandparent's house about 300 times once or twice every weekend over a period of years.
And I until then, I watched all of these once, when they first released, until HBO and videotape came out, and I don't remember ever having a problem remembering which character was which. I was an adult when the PT came out though.
I'm so afraid to watch them. What if the tape player eats them?
The opening crawl did not saw "Episode IV" or "A New Hope" when it was originally released in theaters.
On all home versions and subsequent re-releases, it has been added.
This little detail is why ANH has never been added to the library of Congress, despite being on the initial list of movies to get inducted.
Star Wars is not even close to a fable.
Especially when they die horrible, horrible deaths in their arrogance.
Individual short narratives within it could then be considered Star Wars fables but Star Wars as a whole is a saga.
Steam
I was going to say pornography, but you know what...
1. Stars.
2. War.
Think on that.
That's at least three things.
GotG3 confirmed
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let George keep it
3. Sand.
awwwwwww I’m irrationally happy he’s open to actually visiting the Mando set.
By all accounts George appears to bear no ill will to the people working on Star Wars now.
And I'm pretty sure he's laughing his ass off over the reactions Disney is getting to some of their movies.
And Filoni’s his protege, of course he’s on board with Mandolorian
Ah, it was added to the theatrical re-release in 1981. Early enough I wouldn't have known about the change. I was 10.