[Star Wars], Mark spoilers. Fake spoilers. Real spoilers. Contemplative spoilers. Or ELSE.

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    So when do we get the inevitable fan films based on this script.

  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    The thing is, a lot of the scenes that appear in ROS probably sound good on paper too. It's only when they show up on screen as a frantically edited mess that the problems exacerbate.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Aistan wrote: »
    The thing is, a lot of the scenes that appear in ROS probably sound good on paper too. It's only when they show up on screen as a frantically edited mess that the problems exacerbate.

    I can't agree with that. The very basis of ROS from the word go sounds dumb as shit imo.

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Aistan wrote: »
    The thing is, a lot of the scenes that appear in ROS probably sound good on paper too. It's only when they show up on screen as a frantically edited mess that the problems exacerbate.

    I can't agree with that. The very basis of ROS from the word go sounds dumb as shit imo.

    Yeah there's a lot of fundamental parts of this script that are... not good. To me.

    The editing had issues, sure, but that's not my main problems with ROS.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    It's also not that this script is good. it's just better than what we got

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  • LegacyLegacy SCP Of The Digital Frontier The Grid(Seattle)Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Does anyone look at sources nowadays?

    Like...this is AVClub going off of a random Reddit post of a guy who posts nerd movie conspiracy videos all the time, just because that subreddit happened to have leaks of RoS a few months before release. Not because the person who made the video did.

    Clickbait bs. This article belongs on AICN.

    Can we get the chemicals in. 'Cause anything's better than this.
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Aistan wrote: »
    The thing is, a lot of the scenes that appear in ROS probably sound good on paper too. It's only when they show up on screen as a frantically edited mess that the problems exacerbate.

    I can't agree with that. The very basis of ROS from the word go sounds dumb as shit imo.

    THE DEAD SPEAK!

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I don't feel that RotJ needs to set up the Empire vs Rebellion plot. It's ancillary. The Emperor doesn't really care beyond using the threat to turn Luke. Luke just wanders out of the Rebellion into his own movie when he meets Vader on Endor. The struggle contrasted against how little those in power give a shit feels like it's part of the point.

    It's still the weakest of the OT. ANH is practically perfect, ESB, while not flawless, is deeper and richer than ANH. RotJ merely sits at good to great and as a conclusion to the previous, it is wholly satisfying.

    The fact that the entire Empire vs Rebellion plot in ROTJ is ancillary is the whole problem. Most of it kinda falls too flat in the end compared to the Luke plotline.

    I don't see it as a problem. The heart of the movie is the family drama. The war is the backdrop the drama takes place in. The stakes were set over the course of the first 2 movies, we know everything about that struggle that we need to know walking in. The stakes of the final battle are clear. What we learn is that the Rebellion is up against a wizard and they were always out of his league.

    It has other issues, like Han's rescue, while fun and informative regarding Luke's growth, being disconnected from the plot.

    If the heart of your movie sidelines 2/3rds of your main characters, that's a problem.

    See also: ROS.

    Nobody is sidelined. Han becomes a true hero, volunteering for the tough mission, and not for Leia or Luke, for the right reasons. Their romance peaks. They pull off the win that allows the Empire to be defeated once and for all. Is it the B story? Absolutely. They are not sidelined in the slightest.

    You just said the heart of the movie was the Luke/Vader drama and the war is the backdrop. 2/3rds of your main characters in the climax of your final film should not be relegated to the b-plot, they should also be part of what can be described as "the heart of the movie". Leia and Han's plotline at the end should not be describable as "ancillary" is the whole point.

    ROTJ isn't near as bad as ROS at this. Lucas at least tries. But it's still one of the biggest weaknesses of the film.

    In a way it's kind of a testament to the script that Luke's plot feels like the A plot, given how little he actually did besides distracting Vader. By the time the battle actually started both the Emperor and Vader would have been doomed regardless of what Luke did, so all he managed to accomplish after that was to give Anakin a chance to pass on peacefully.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I don't feel that RotJ needs to set up the Empire vs Rebellion plot. It's ancillary. The Emperor doesn't really care beyond using the threat to turn Luke. Luke just wanders out of the Rebellion into his own movie when he meets Vader on Endor. The struggle contrasted against how little those in power give a shit feels like it's part of the point.

    It's still the weakest of the OT. ANH is practically perfect, ESB, while not flawless, is deeper and richer than ANH. RotJ merely sits at good to great and as a conclusion to the previous, it is wholly satisfying.

    The fact that the entire Empire vs Rebellion plot in ROTJ is ancillary is the whole problem. Most of it kinda falls too flat in the end compared to the Luke plotline.

    I don't see it as a problem. The heart of the movie is the family drama. The war is the backdrop the drama takes place in. The stakes were set over the course of the first 2 movies, we know everything about that struggle that we need to know walking in. The stakes of the final battle are clear. What we learn is that the Rebellion is up against a wizard and they were always out of his league.

    It has other issues, like Han's rescue, while fun and informative regarding Luke's growth, being disconnected from the plot.

    If the heart of your movie sidelines 2/3rds of your main characters, that's a problem.

    See also: ROS.

    Nobody is sidelined. Han becomes a true hero, volunteering for the tough mission, and not for Leia or Luke, for the right reasons. Their romance peaks. They pull off the win that allows the Empire to be defeated once and for all. Is it the B story? Absolutely. They are not sidelined in the slightest.

    You just said the heart of the movie was the Luke/Vader drama and the war is the backdrop. 2/3rds of your main characters in the climax of your final film should not be relegated to the b-plot, they should also be part of what can be described as "the heart of the movie". Leia and Han's plotline at the end should not be describable as "ancillary" is the whole point.

    ROTJ isn't near as bad as ROS at this. Lucas at least tries. But it's still one of the biggest weaknesses of the film.

    In a way it's kind of a testament to the script that Luke's plot feels like the A plot, given how little he actually did besides distracting Vader. By the time the battle actually started both the Emperor and Vader would have been doomed regardless of what Luke did, so all he managed to accomplish after that was to give Anakin a chance to pass on peacefully.

    I mean, yeah, if you think about it nothing he does there matters for the greater whole other then I guess the Emperor doesn't escape the exploding Death Star or something. The EU tried to invent some battle meditation crap or something to explain why "No, it really did matter!" but that shit is dumb as hell.

    It feels important though because it's a character and a situation we care about. Way more then the stuff going down on the planet with the Ewoks or whatever.


    PS - The Ewok cradling his dead friend totally sells that moment 100% though. That cannot be denied.

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  • RingoRingo HE KEEPS REPEATING THE LINE I'M GONNA CRY BLEASE LET HIM LIVE YOU MADE ME WATCH SO MUCH KISSING IN THIS FILM LET INIGO LIVERegistered User regular
    Legacy wrote: »
    Does anyone look at sources nowadays?

    Like...this is AVClub going off of a random Reddit post of a guy who posts nerd movie conspiracy videos all the time, just because that subreddit happened to have leaks of RoS a few months before release. Not because the person who made the video did.

    Clickbait bs. This article belongs on AICN.

    I mean they confirmed the contents with an independent source?

    You wanna say AVClub has shit for sources or whatever, sure I have no idea. But it isn't just a reddit repost

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    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    shryke wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    I don't feel that RotJ needs to set up the Empire vs Rebellion plot. It's ancillary. The Emperor doesn't really care beyond using the threat to turn Luke. Luke just wanders out of the Rebellion into his own movie when he meets Vader on Endor. The struggle contrasted against how little those in power give a shit feels like it's part of the point.

    It's still the weakest of the OT. ANH is practically perfect, ESB, while not flawless, is deeper and richer than ANH. RotJ merely sits at good to great and as a conclusion to the previous, it is wholly satisfying.

    The fact that the entire Empire vs Rebellion plot in ROTJ is ancillary is the whole problem. Most of it kinda falls too flat in the end compared to the Luke plotline.

    I don't see it as a problem. The heart of the movie is the family drama. The war is the backdrop the drama takes place in. The stakes were set over the course of the first 2 movies, we know everything about that struggle that we need to know walking in. The stakes of the final battle are clear. What we learn is that the Rebellion is up against a wizard and they were always out of his league.

    It has other issues, like Han's rescue, while fun and informative regarding Luke's growth, being disconnected from the plot.

    If the heart of your movie sidelines 2/3rds of your main characters, that's a problem.

    See also: ROS.

    Nobody is sidelined. Han becomes a true hero, volunteering for the tough mission, and not for Leia or Luke, for the right reasons. Their romance peaks. They pull off the win that allows the Empire to be defeated once and for all. Is it the B story? Absolutely. They are not sidelined in the slightest.

    You just said the heart of the movie was the Luke/Vader drama and the war is the backdrop. 2/3rds of your main characters in the climax of your final film should not be relegated to the b-plot, they should also be part of what can be described as "the heart of the movie". Leia and Han's plotline at the end should not be describable as "ancillary" is the whole point.

    ROTJ isn't near as bad as ROS at this. Lucas at least tries. But it's still one of the biggest weaknesses of the film.

    In a way it's kind of a testament to the script that Luke's plot feels like the A plot, given how little he actually did besides distracting Vader. By the time the battle actually started both the Emperor and Vader would have been doomed regardless of what Luke did, so all he managed to accomplish after that was to give Anakin a chance to pass on peacefully.

    I mean, yeah, if you think about it nothing he does there matters for the greater whole other then I guess the Emperor doesn't escape the exploding Death Star or something. The EU tried to invent some battle meditation crap or something to explain why "No, it really did matter!" but that shit is dumb as hell.

    It feels important though because it's a character and a situation we care about. Way more then the stuff going down on the planet with the Ewoks or whatever.


    PS - The Ewok cradling his dead friend totally sells that moment 100% though. That cannot be denied.

    RoS spoilers:
    It's interesting to contrast that with the ending of RoS, which didn't even attempt to pull the same thing off. Rather than trying to sell the stakes as being personally important to the protagonist regardless of how they mattered to everything else, they just had Palpatine zap the fleet. Palpatine wasn't defeated as part of Rey or Ben's arc, he was defeated so that he'd stop zapping the fleet.

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  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    I did say scenes, not the entire summary. The basic premise of the movie is garbage. But there's a lot of neat ideas for scenes within it that might have been cool were they not in this end product.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    The so-called Treverrow script wasn't amazing, but it was at least basically coherent as a starting point. Like, it's the Jurassic World of Star Wars scripts.

    Which doesn't look so terrible when what was actually made was the Jurassic Park III of Star Wars scripts.

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  • LegacyLegacy SCP Of The Digital Frontier The Grid(Seattle)Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    Legacy wrote: »
    Does anyone look at sources nowadays?

    Like...this is AVClub going off of a random Reddit post of a guy who posts nerd movie conspiracy videos all the time, just because that subreddit happened to have leaks of RoS a few months before release. Not because the person who made the video did.

    Clickbait bs. This article belongs on AICN.

    I mean they confirmed the contents with an independent source?

    You wanna say AVClub has shit for sources or whatever, sure I have no idea. But it isn't just a reddit repost

    Sorry, I didn't read further that AVclub independently verified it on their own. My bad completely. I kinda just saw reddit and r/starwarslinks and my eyes went red. I'm just tired of sifting through a few of my more naive friends feeds with YouTube links about Keanu and Jon Snow in Star Wars X rumors and other such nonsense.

    Can we get the chemicals in. 'Cause anything's better than this.
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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Release the Wick x Snow: Doublejon teamup cut

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  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Aistan wrote: »
    The thing is, a lot of the scenes that appear in ROS probably sound good on paper too. It's only when they show up on screen as a frantically edited mess that the problems exacerbate.

    I can't agree with that. The very basis of ROS from the word go sounds dumb as shit imo.

    THE DEAD SPEAK!

    What's sad is that it's actually a really compelling hook, if there was some mystery to it instead of just being all explained up front.

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  • SixSix Quite worryingly erotic Registered User regular
    THE DEAD SPEAK is kind of cheesy but is somewhere between 1300 and 2000 on the list of really awful things about Rise of Skywalker.

    There are plenty of alternate universes where the movie is good and that’s in the opening crawl.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    (Spoilers for ROS's intro, I guess)
    I'm not sure if this will work for everyone, but here.
    In case it doesn't work, or you don't want a fullscreen video playing music:
    u9rgq62dlx1h.png
    wo56qqdg3zfi.png
    xydk0du1ugjs.png
    I think I could have a lot of fun with this.

    edit: I should have made her name REY JUSTREY.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Six wrote: »
    THE DEAD SPEAK is kind of cheesy but is somewhere between 1300 and 2000 on the list of really awful things about Rise of Skywalker.

    There are plenty of alternate universes where the movie is good and that’s in the opening crawl.

    I really think it's pretty foundational. It starts the entire process of building the movie on a shitty premise. It's a big dumb glaring thing I'm not sure you can fix by making the rest of the movie, writing, directing, pacing, etc more competently.

  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    "THE DEAD SPEAK" is hardly the worst thing to appear in the opening crawl. Looking at you, "There are heroes on both sides."

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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Eh, the way the line comes off, it sounds exactly like those old timey radio dramas from the 30's. Which is precisely the tone Star Wars has always tried to emulate. Which is also exactly what the Clone Wars show went with with its opening announcer.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Yeah, the line itself is exactly the right kind of cheesy imo. The plot line it represents is terribly stupid.

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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Sure, I won't argue that. :)

    Though, I can argue that there's nothing "technically" wrong with the nature of the crawl. The whole thing could work without changing a word. It just requires Palpatine being set up at the end of TLJ. But he wasn't, so the entire nature of it is just a massive "...Wait what?!".

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  • ChaosHatChaosHat HelloooooooooRegistered User regular
    I actually think it's a decent line, and the premise of a pirate radio signal broadcasting instructions from Palpatine is kind of an interesting one. Is he back? Is it just a contingency program firing off? Is it a deep fake used by a pretender to the Imperial Throne?

    The problem is that we never see the befuddlement of the galaxy. We never see how this is received by the broader galaxy, the general reaction to it, none of that. Further, the mystery is revealed instantaneously within minutes so what even was the point of the crawl at all?

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  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    It was great to hear in Fortnite, though.

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  • Senna1Senna1 Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    Rami wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Thought this might interest people here:
    AV Club wrote:
    In what amounts to the most shocking twist in Star Wars history, Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX was better than the version J.J. Abrams gave us—on paper, at least. A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared overnight in r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow/Connolly script.

    AV Club

    Rose is way more prominent in this script, too.

    They aren't wrong, on paper at least that plot sounds 10x better than Rise

    There are a lot of scenes in mentioned that I don't like or think would play well, but the overall meta plot of Rey and Kylo's mirroring journeys sounds great, I love that type of stuff.

    Yeah, the bones of it is pretty solid and it actually reads like it's trying to be a follow up to TFA/TLJ and a conclusion to the actual ST as it exists in those films instead of some whole new bullshit.
    Except that conclusion is that the last of the Skywalkers dies, unredeemed, having learned nothing, but only after ensuring his bloodline dies off completely.

    Yeah wow, that just soooo captures the spirit of Star Wars we all love...

    No.

    This script seems better paced and less frenetic than what we got, but I absolutely hate what it does with Kylo/Rey.

    AbsoluteZero
  • SixSix Quite worryingly erotic Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Six wrote: »
    THE DEAD SPEAK is kind of cheesy but is somewhere between 1300 and 2000 on the list of really awful things about Rise of Skywalker.

    There are plenty of alternate universes where the movie is good and that’s in the opening crawl.

    I really think it's pretty foundational. It starts the entire process of building the movie on a shitty premise. It's a big dumb glaring thing I'm not sure you can fix by making the rest of the movie, writing, directing, pacing, etc more competently.

    I think what they did with it is terrible. But starting the crawl with that could have been great.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Senna1 wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    Rami wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Thought this might interest people here:
    AV Club wrote:
    In what amounts to the most shocking twist in Star Wars history, Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX was better than the version J.J. Abrams gave us—on paper, at least. A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared overnight in r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow/Connolly script.

    AV Club

    Rose is way more prominent in this script, too.

    They aren't wrong, on paper at least that plot sounds 10x better than Rise

    There are a lot of scenes in mentioned that I don't like or think would play well, but the overall meta plot of Rey and Kylo's mirroring journeys sounds great, I love that type of stuff.

    Yeah, the bones of it is pretty solid and it actually reads like it's trying to be a follow up to TFA/TLJ and a conclusion to the actual ST as it exists in those films instead of some whole new bullshit.
    Except that conclusion is that the last of the Skywalkers dies, unredeemed, having learned nothing, but only after ensuring his bloodline dies off completely.

    Yeah wow, that just soooo captures the spirit of Star Wars we all love...

    No.

    This script seems better paced and less frenetic than what we got, but I absolutely hate what it does with Kylo/Rey.

    Since when is Star Wars about the pride of the Skywalker bloodline?

    The OT ain't about that. Neither TFA or TLJ are about either. In the PT there isn't even a Skywalker bloodline to speak of, since there's literally only one guy.

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  • ChaosHatChaosHat HelloooooooooRegistered User regular
    Leia is a Skywalker.

    Luke's redemption occurs at the end of TLJ. What else does he need to do.

    I'm also certain Luke, Anakin, Leia, et al would rather their family name and the power it comes with die than be used for evil.

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  • ChaosHatChaosHat HelloooooooooRegistered User regular
    edited January 15
    "The dead speak" is actually a good hook for the first movie.

    There has been peace in the galaxy, but a mysterious transmission from the late Emperor Palpatine is being broadcast from the unknown regions of the galaxy. He speaks of a First Order and calls those still loyal to come to him.

    Leia is determined to defeat this mysterious Imperial remnant but is afraid to challenge it without the aid of her brother, Luke Skywalker, who has been missing on a journey of self discovery since the fall of the new Jedi Academy. She has sent her finest pilot, Poe Dameron, to find her brother and see if the two events are related.

    And then it's all one thing.

    ChaosHat on
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  • monkeykinsmonkeykins Registered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    I actually think it's a decent line, and the premise of a pirate radio signal broadcasting instructions from Palpatine is kind of an interesting one. Is he back? Is it just a contingency program firing off? Is it a deep fake used by a pretender to the Imperial Throne?

    The problem is that we never see the befuddlement of the galaxy. We never see how this is received by the broader galaxy, the general reaction to it, none of that. Further, the mystery is revealed instantaneously within minutes so what even was the point of the crawl at all?

    Yeah, would have been a great hook for VII. Or even VIII.
    In fact, I might just pretend instead of the sea-chase-into-a-headwind we got in TLJ the New Republic and FO were racing to get to the source of the broadcast through some sort of huge gravity well that blocked hyperspace travel.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    "The dead speak" is actually a good hook for the first movie.

    There has been peace in the galaxy, but a mysterious transmission from the late Emperor Palpatine is being broadcast from the unknown regions of the galaxy. He speaks a First Order and calls those still loyal to come to him.

    Leia is determined to defeat this mysterious Imperial remnant but is afraid to challenge it without the aid of her brother, Luke Skywalker, who has been missing on a journey of self discovery since the fall of new Jedi Academy. She has sent her finest pilot, Poe Dameron, to find her brother and see if the two events are related.

    And then it's all one thing.

    ROS really feels like they tried to start and finish a whole new trilogy in the final film, rather then closing out the trilogy that they'd already started making.

    Also that idea works way better then what we got, just in general.

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  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    If they'd made a list of all the story stuff that now made up episodes 7, 8 and 9 to begin with, I think they could've come up with something reasonably coherent and resonant. If they'd been consistent in referring to the past not just to tickle our nostalgia bones but to develop the theme of being stuck in the past, being beholden to certain restrictive interpretations of it (bloodlines! Empire! fandom!), or indeed rebelling against it, this could've been an actual trilogy that deserves the name. Even the return of the Emperor, which in its current form is wrongheaded in so many ways, could've been made to work. The story strand of "THE DEAD SPEAK!" should've been there from the first, implicitly or explicitly; in fact, you can argue that it *is* there in episodes 7 and 8, but due to the boneheadedly literal way episode 9 interprets it and the way it keeps farting in the direction of The Last Jedi, any thematic potential is wasted.

    The more I think about it, the more I find myself reminded of that one parody video of No Man's Sky. There's the potential of the Sequel Trilogy - and then there's what Rise of Skywalker ends up doing with it:

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  • Senna1Senna1 Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    shryke wrote: »
    Senna1 wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    Rami wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Thought this might interest people here:
    AV Club wrote:
    In what amounts to the most shocking twist in Star Wars history, Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX was better than the version J.J. Abrams gave us—on paper, at least. A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared overnight in r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow/Connolly script.

    AV Club

    Rose is way more prominent in this script, too.

    They aren't wrong, on paper at least that plot sounds 10x better than Rise

    There are a lot of scenes in mentioned that I don't like or think would play well, but the overall meta plot of Rey and Kylo's mirroring journeys sounds great, I love that type of stuff.

    Yeah, the bones of it is pretty solid and it actually reads like it's trying to be a follow up to TFA/TLJ and a conclusion to the actual ST as it exists in those films instead of some whole new bullshit.
    Except that conclusion is that the last of the Skywalkers dies, unredeemed, having learned nothing, but only after ensuring his bloodline dies off completely.

    Yeah wow, that just soooo captures the spirit of Star Wars we all love...

    No.

    This script seems better paced and less frenetic than what we got, but I absolutely hate what it does with Kylo/Rey.

    Since when is Star Wars about the pride of the Skywalker bloodline?

    The OT ain't about that. Neither TFA or TLJ are about either. In the PT there isn't even a Skywalker bloodline to speak of, since there's literally only one guy.
    No, it's about redemption, as told through the particular lens of one family. So yeah, I'm still going to go with having the 9 movie series end with the last generation of that family dying unredeemed after falling to the dark side then doubling tripling down on that folly kinda undermines the whole point of everything before it. If that's your grand vision for a Sequel Trilogy, count me out...

    Senna1 on
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  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Aistan wrote: »
    The thing is, a lot of the scenes that appear in ROS probably sound good on paper too. It's only when they show up on screen as a frantically edited mess that the problems exacerbate.

    I can't agree with that. The very basis of ROS from the word go sounds dumb as shit imo.

    THE DEAD SPEAK!

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  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    Senna1 wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    The OT ain't about that. Neither TFA or TLJ are about either. In the PT there isn't even a Skywalker bloodline to speak of, since there's literally only one guy.
    No, it's about redemption, as told through the particular lens of one family. So yeah, I'm still going to go with having the 9 movie series end with the last generation of that family dying unredeemed after falling to the dark side then doubling tripling down on that folly kinda undermines the whole point of everything before it. If that's your grand vision for a Sequel Trilogy, count me out...
    Are you talking about Kylo Ren? If so, he's redeemed along the parameters set up by Return of the Jedi, where Vader pretty much does the same thing and is considered redeemed. You may or may not agree with that standard, but it's no different from that which ends the original trilogy.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Senna1 wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Senna1 wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Mortious wrote: »
    Rami wrote: »
    Hexmage-PA wrote: »
    Thought this might interest people here:
    AV Club wrote:
    In what amounts to the most shocking twist in Star Wars history, Colin Trevorrow’s script for Episode IX was better than the version J.J. Abrams gave us—on paper, at least. A breakdown of the script, co-written by Trevorrow and Derek Connolly, appeared overnight in r/StarWarsLeaks, which has a surprisingly sound track record with regard to, well, Star Wars leaks. (Major plot points from The Rise Of Skywalker, along with a pair of screenshots from the film’s climax, appeared in the subreddit months prior to its release.) While neither Disney nor Trevorrow have commented on the leak, we’ve spoken with another source who was able to independently confirm the legitimacy of the Trevorrow/Connolly script.

    AV Club

    Rose is way more prominent in this script, too.

    They aren't wrong, on paper at least that plot sounds 10x better than Rise

    There are a lot of scenes in mentioned that I don't like or think would play well, but the overall meta plot of Rey and Kylo's mirroring journeys sounds great, I love that type of stuff.

    Yeah, the bones of it is pretty solid and it actually reads like it's trying to be a follow up to TFA/TLJ and a conclusion to the actual ST as it exists in those films instead of some whole new bullshit.
    Except that conclusion is that the last of the Skywalkers dies, unredeemed, having learned nothing, but only after ensuring his bloodline dies off completely.

    Yeah wow, that just soooo captures the spirit of Star Wars we all love...

    No.

    This script seems better paced and less frenetic than what we got, but I absolutely hate what it does with Kylo/Rey.

    Since when is Star Wars about the pride of the Skywalker bloodline?

    The OT ain't about that. Neither TFA or TLJ are about either. In the PT there isn't even a Skywalker bloodline to speak of, since there's literally only one guy.
    No, it's about redemption, as told through the particular lens of one family. So yeah, I'm still going to go with having the 9 movie series end with the last generation of that family dying unredeemed after falling to the dark side then doubling tripling down on that folly kinda undermines the whole point of everything before it. If that's your grand vision for a Sequel Trilogy, count me out...

    Since when is it told through the lens of one family?

    Han isn't a Skywalker, Leia only get shoehorned in as one in ROTJ and it informs nothing about her story and she has no redemption arc.

    The entire idea that Star Wars is about the redemption story of the Skywalker family is a bunch of post-hoc bullshit.

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  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    If it was, I'd also dislike the films more - and it's one of the main reasons why I very much like The Last Jedi best. It does away (or did, until RoS) with this silly, reactionary dynasty thing. Rey & Co aren't the protagonists because they are ennobled by blood, or at least Rey wasn't until the last film.

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
    kimeshryke
  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    My reaction to "THE DEAD SPEAK!" in a universe where ghosts regularly appear to give lectures is.... So what? This is not news.

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    kimeFencingsaxShadowen
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    My reaction to "THE DEAD SPEAK!" in a universe where ghosts regularly appear to give lectures is.... So what? This is not news.

    This is what makes the problem so glaring. We already know about Force ghosts. And there is always the old fallback of history books/holocrons and old untransmitted messages and all that jazz, especially given the technology level of the Star Wars universe.

    Instead it's just thrown in front of us like...ok? That's a premise? And then literally does none of the work to establish why this is meaningful or why we should care - we're just told that it happens and here's the consequences and OFF WE GO! It would've been better if it was just an old Palpatine holocron pointing to a lost fleet or something because it would've avoided the ridiculousness of Palpatine's existence, but the core problems with the initial premise and its execution would still be there because we have no reason to give a shit about it from the start and we're thrown mid-stream into a literal desert of nothingness.

    Three things in human life are important: the first is to be kind; the second is to be kind; and the third is to be kind.
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