The old joke, back like 20 years ago, was that the english language was fast on it's way to being replaced with nothing but Simpsons quotes and descriptions. Or memes as we would later come to know them.
Simpsons has been running for 86 seasons and has featured roughly one third of all living humans as guest stars. By 2035 it will have statistically used every possible combination of words within the English language anyway, so we'll have no choice but to quote the show with every sentence.
The old joke, back like 20 years ago, was that the english language was fast on it's way to being replaced with nothing but Simpsons quotes and descriptions. Or memes as we would later come to know them.
As with all things, Simpsons did it first.
It sounds similar to the claim the Simpsons writers/producers have made, that using nothing but existing Simpsons clips they could probably recreate either Citizen Kane or Cape Feare.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Continuing plodding through S7 of DS9. My father is definitely having issues with it, and I can't say I blame him. S7 in general is so hit or miss. Take Me Out to the Holosuite? One of the best times you can have with this series. Covenant? Oh my god I can't believe what they've done to this character, this is so fucking dumb.
We just got done with Prodigal Daughter. Hey, they have some continuity and bring back that Billby plotline for the Chief! That's good! Oh, they expect me to side with Ezri and think that her mother is to blame for one of her sons murdering someone because she was kind of controlling. That's bad. Like, really bad.
And I guess we're just going to drop the plot of the Orion syndicate putting the squeeze on the family business because they're in debt to them? I guess we are.
I've started rewatching TNG. Skipped season 1 (though I did go back with the wife and watch Encounter at Farpoint because she'd actually watched the show before). I kinda skipped through season 2, since some of the episodes were a little weak in that season as well, and I'm about to hit the 2-parter finale for season 3.
I remember DS9 doing well as a sort of cross between a spin-off and sequel series to TNG, I assume it's worth watching as well (I probably will watch it either way), is it worth hopping back and forth between the two to stay chronological? Or maybe just witching between seasons starting with DS9's first season after TNG's 6th? Or is there no real reason not to just watch all of TNG then all of DS9?
Probably gonna try to get my wife into the series at some point, I do think the movies mostly hold up. I remember liking Insurrection and First Contact, at least (Nemesis was bad, if only as a finale compared to All Good Things).
There's three (kind of four) points of continuity with TNG: Episode 1 references Best of Both Worlds, but takes place a couple years later. And of course O'Brien comes over and later Worf (between Generations and First Contact). The third point is several guest characters who show up, but those are all strict follow up or separate to their TNG appearances, only one goes back to TNG and his DS9 visit isn't mentioned.
It's fine to start after finishing TNG.
The kind of fourth point was the DS9 writers calling bullshit on the ship duel in Generations, and isn't really continuity, just a bit of context that benefits from knowing those events happen within days of each other.
The USS Odyssey, a Galaxy-class ship, was destroyed by the Jem'hadar in an episode that aired shortly after Generations. The Odyssey faces the same situation that the Enterprise did, an enemy that can pierce their shields and whose shields they can't pierce.
They handle it far more actively, changing the shield frequency through the full spectrum while maintaining fire, then dropping shields entirely and overcharging the weapons. She ultimately goes down with all guns blazing after forcing the enemy to go full Janeway and ram them head on.
Continuing plodding through S7 of DS9. My father is definitely having issues with it, and I can't say I blame him. S7 in general is so hit or miss. Take Me Out to the Holosuite? One of the best times you can have with this series. Covenant? Oh my god I can't believe what they've done to this character, this is so fucking dumb.
We just got done with Prodigal Daughter. Hey, they have some continuity and bring back that Billby plotline for the Chief! That's good! Oh, they expect me to side with Ezri and think that her mother is to blame for one of her sons murdering someone because she was kind of controlling. That's bad. Like, really bad.
And I guess we're just going to drop the plot of the Orion syndicate putting the squeeze on the family business because they're in debt to them? I guess we are.
I never remembered it being so hit or miss the from first time I watched the series, but on my recent rewatch...oh yeah, it really drags. Has the dizzying highs of take me out and paper moon, and the cringe worthy lows of Chrysalis. And then several episodes like Treachery, Faith, and the Great River which basically take what would normally be a short scene between characters and stretches it out into a very mediocre full length episode.
I've started rewatching TNG. Skipped season 1 (though I did go back with the wife and watch Encounter at Farpoint because she'd actually watched the show before). I kinda skipped through season 2, since some of the episodes were a little weak in that season as well, and I'm about to hit the 2-parter finale for season 3.
I did that too, but stuck through and watched all of season 1 and season 2. The best parts / reason you should watch is Picard is peak asshole during those seasons and it's wonderful.
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I've started rewatching TNG. Skipped season 1 (though I did go back with the wife and watch Encounter at Farpoint because she'd actually watched the show before). I kinda skipped through season 2, since some of the episodes were a little weak in that season as well, and I'm about to hit the 2-parter finale for season 3.
I did that too, but stuck through and watched all of season 1 and season 2. The best parts / reason you should watch is Picard is peak asshole during those seasons and it's wonderful.
Plus season 2 had the best Picard line:
Oh, cluck, cluck, cluck, Number One.
You're being a mother hen.
+1
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
My favorite thing about "Encounter at Farpoint" was how the entire series started exactly like a shakespearean stage play. It starts with a single actor on a stage, hidden in shadow delivering a monolog as he steps into the light. So good.
Season 2 also gave us Worf telling Q how to convince them he was mortal. "Die." Or was that 3. Still, Worf had his moments.
It was three, and I love how absolutely pleased Riker silently is with Worf in that moment.
So many of the main cast are great giving reactions when they don’t have dialogue in a scene. Sadly, some of Sirtis ’ best work in TNG is that kind of thing given how dire the writers were with her character.
Honestly Riker and Worf's relationship is great and I've decided that anytime Riker bites Worf's head off what he's actually doing is engaging Worf on his own terms, in Klingon, and Worf mainly allows it because Riker has earned it.
Honestly Riker and Worf's relationship is great and I've decided that anytime Riker bites Worf's head off what he's actually doing is engaging Worf on his own terms, in Klingon, and Worf mainly allows it because Riker has earned it.
There's an amazing scene in the episode where Worf breaks his back and he asks Riker to kill him and Riker and him have a giant argument.
One of the interesting contrasts with TNG and DS9 that I like is that Worf and Riker seem more like friends whereas Worf and Sisko feels much more like a professional relationship. Sisko respects him and wants to mould him into a better command officer but at least in the initial few seasons they don't feel like best buds or anything in the same way.
shryke on
+6
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MsAnthropyThe Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the RhythmThe City of FlowersRegistered Userregular
Honestly Riker and Worf's relationship is great and I've decided that anytime Riker bites Worf's head off what he's actually doing is engaging Worf on his own terms, in Klingon, and Worf mainly allows it because Riker has earned it.
Given Riker’s role in A Matter of Honor, it’s a bit odd he didn’t have more involvement with Worf’s Klingon-succession storylines. I think it may just be that the First Officer role has in the show is tough to plot for, because they aren’t a specialist who is going to be solving the science problems or the security person who might get action scenes or whatever. Their role is somewhat similar to the Captain’s, but their impact has to be lesser since they don’t have the ultimate ‘decider’ role.
Honestly Riker and Worf's relationship is great and I've decided that anytime Riker bites Worf's head off what he's actually doing is engaging Worf on his own terms, in Klingon, and Worf mainly allows it because Riker has earned it.
Given Riker’s role in A Matter of Honor, it’s a bit odd he didn’t have more involvement with Worf’s Klingon-succession storylines. I think it may just be that the First Officer role has in the show is tough to plot for, because they aren’t a specialist who is going to be solving the science problems or the security person who might get action scenes or whatever. Their role is somewhat similar to the Captain’s, but their impact has to be lesser since they don’t have the ultimate ‘decider’ role.
Yeah but in Sins of the Father when Picard becomes his Cha’DIch and the Duras brat is like "Starfleet ain't teach you to fight" and Picard is basically like "Fuck around and find out." It's so good
Honestly Riker and Worf's relationship is great and I've decided that anytime Riker bites Worf's head off what he's actually doing is engaging Worf on his own terms, in Klingon, and Worf mainly allows it because Riker has earned it.
There's an amazing scene in the episode where Worf breaks his back and he asks Riker to kill him and Riker and him have a giant argument.
One of the interesting contrasts with TNG and DS9 that I like is that Worf and Riker seem more like friends whereas Worf and Sisko feels much more like a professional relationship. Sisko respects him and wants to mould him into a better command officer but at least in the initial few seasons they don't feel like best buds or anything in the same way.
Honestly Riker and Worf's relationship is great and I've decided that anytime Riker bites Worf's head off what he's actually doing is engaging Worf on his own terms, in Klingon, and Worf mainly allows it because Riker has earned it.
Given Riker’s role in A Matter of Honor, it’s a bit odd he didn’t have more involvement with Worf’s Klingon-succession storylines. I think it may just be that the First Officer role has in the show is tough to plot for, because they aren’t a specialist who is going to be solving the science problems or the security person who might get action scenes or whatever. Their role is somewhat similar to the Captain’s, but their impact has to be lesser since they don’t have the ultimate ‘decider’ role.
Yeah but in Sins of the Father when Picard becomes his Cha’DIch and the Duras brat is like "Starfleet ain't teach you to fight" and Picard is basically like "Fuck around and find out." It's so good
I have to assume we'd have seen Worf or Picard bust out unstoppable Kirk-fu moves like the butt drop and the double axehandle punch if it really came down to fisticuffs there.
+4
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
Nothing is more Starfleet than giving 'em the old double axehandle
Honestly Riker and Worf's relationship is great and I've decided that anytime Riker bites Worf's head off what he's actually doing is engaging Worf on his own terms, in Klingon, and Worf mainly allows it because Riker has earned it.
Given Riker’s role in A Matter of Honor, it’s a bit odd he didn’t have more involvement with Worf’s Klingon-succession storylines. I think it may just be that the First Officer role has in the show is tough to plot for, because they aren’t a specialist who is going to be solving the science problems or the security person who might get action scenes or whatever. Their role is somewhat similar to the Captain’s, but their impact has to be lesser since they don’t have the ultimate ‘decider’ role.
Yeah but in Sins of the Father when Picard becomes his Cha’DIch and the Duras brat is like "Starfleet ain't teach you to fight" and Picard is basically like "Fuck around and find out." It's so good
I have to assume we'd have seen Worf or Picard bust out unstoppable Kirk-fu moves like the butt drop and the double axehandle punch if it really came down to fisticuffs there.
He actually gets in a fight in like the next scene or two!
I should have added, when I was watching the scene where Worf asked him, I was like "Dude, Riker is right there." But Riker would have been way more aggressive with that line (and it wasn't a Riker line at all). So I understood a little but also I just wanna see Riker and Worf just bro'ing across the galaxy together. It makes the twist from All Good Things way more impactful to me
MsAnthropyThe Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the RhythmThe City of FlowersRegistered Userregular
edited July 2020
Yeah I think the setup of the show initially was to basically split ‘The Captain’ role in half. Picard gets to do the speechifying and be the moral core of the show, while Riker gets to be the youngish fun action dude. But, Stewart (understandably) didn’t like not getting to do things, so he becomes much more active as a character, and it’s pretty clear in retrospect that they never came up with any super compelling storyline or place for Riker after BoBW. Of the XO characters on the various series who didn’t have dual roles, the only one who had really compelling things to do was Kira, IMO. And that’s because she had built in friction with the Captain, an interesting backstory, and issues of faith to deal with.
I'm honestly amazed we've never seen a more SG-1 style show where the ship and captain are more backdrop with a focus on the away team. Especially with the establishment of runabouts and other long range shuttles allowing more extensive away missions.
Yeah I think the setup of the show initially was to basically split ‘The Captain’ role in half. Picard gets to do the speechifying and be the moral core of the show, while Riker gets to be the youngish fun action dude. But, Stewart (understandably) didn’t like not getting to do things, so he becomes much more active as a character, and it’s pretty clear in retrospect that they never came up with any super compelling storyline or place for Riker after BoBW. Of the XO characters on the various series who didn’t have dual roles, the only one who had really compelling things to do was Kira, IMO. And that’s because she had built in friction with the Captain, an interesting backstory, and issues of faith to deal with.
Yeah, Kira being not-Starfleet gives her a ton more leeway to have her own stories.
Honestly Riker and Worf's relationship is great and I've decided that anytime Riker bites Worf's head off what he's actually doing is engaging Worf on his own terms, in Klingon, and Worf mainly allows it because Riker has earned it.
Given Riker’s role in A Matter of Honor, it’s a bit odd he didn’t have more involvement with Worf’s Klingon-succession storylines. I think it may just be that the First Officer role has in the show is tough to plot for, because they aren’t a specialist who is going to be solving the science problems or the security person who might get action scenes or whatever. Their role is somewhat similar to the Captain’s, but their impact has to be lesser since they don’t have the ultimate ‘decider’ role.
Yeah but in Sins of the Father when Picard becomes his Cha’DIch and the Duras brat is like "Starfleet ain't teach you to fight" and Picard is basically like "Fuck around and find out." It's so good
Riker already had that same situation as an exchange officer, and his answer was to put a dude's head through a console. Which was also badass but I like the comparison.
+2
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Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
Yeah I think the setup of the show initially was to basically split ‘The Captain’ role in half. Picard gets to do the speechifying and be the moral core of the show, while Riker gets to be the youngish fun action dude. But, Stewart (understandably) didn’t like not getting to do things, so he becomes much more active as a character, and it’s pretty clear in retrospect that they never came up with any super compelling storyline or place for Riker after BoBW. Of the XO characters on the various series who didn’t have dual roles, the only one who had really compelling things to do was Kira, IMO. And that’s because she had built in friction with the Captain, an interesting backstory, and issues of faith to deal with.
Well to be fair, Riker has to spend some of his time stepping back into his own reality and timeline to run his business empire and plot against the Gargoyles.
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
+7
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MsAnthropyThe Lady of Pain Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the Rhythm, Breaks the RhythmThe City of FlowersRegistered Userregular
Honestly Riker and Worf's relationship is great and I've decided that anytime Riker bites Worf's head off what he's actually doing is engaging Worf on his own terms, in Klingon, and Worf mainly allows it because Riker has earned it.
Given Riker’s role in A Matter of Honor, it’s a bit odd he didn’t have more involvement with Worf’s Klingon-succession storylines. I think it may just be that the First Officer role has in the show is tough to plot for, because they aren’t a specialist who is going to be solving the science problems or the security person who might get action scenes or whatever. Their role is somewhat similar to the Captain’s, but their impact has to be lesser since they don’t have the ultimate ‘decider’ role.
Yeah but in Sins of the Father when Picard becomes his Cha’DIch and the Duras brat is like "Starfleet ain't teach you to fight" and Picard is basically like "Fuck around and find out." It's so good
Honestly Riker and Worf's relationship is great and I've decided that anytime Riker bites Worf's head off what he's actually doing is engaging Worf on his own terms, in Klingon, and Worf mainly allows it because Riker has earned it.
Given Riker’s role in A Matter of Honor, it’s a bit odd he didn’t have more involvement with Worf’s Klingon-succession storylines. I think it may just be that the First Officer role has in the show is tough to plot for, because they aren’t a specialist who is going to be solving the science problems or the security person who might get action scenes or whatever. Their role is somewhat similar to the Captain’s, but their impact has to be lesser since they don’t have the ultimate ‘decider’ role.
Yeah but in Sins of the Father when Picard becomes his Cha’DIch and the Duras brat is like "Starfleet ain't teach you to fight" and Picard is basically like "Fuck around and find out." It's so good
Riker already had that same situation as an exchange officer, and his answer was to put a dude's head through a console. Which was also badass but I like the comparison.
Yeah, I think Picard in that two parter was absolutely awesome, and the show definitely got better as it let Stewart do more. Just always unfortunate when a pretty neat character kind of goes nowhere because the writers don’t seem to know what to do with them and/or are afraid of making big changes. (Same kind of thing happened to Apollo on BSG when they decided to keep Helo around. They gave the latter the former’s spot as ‘the principled one’ with no idea what to do to keep the former interesting. Which is probably why we got ridiculous fat suits, etc, etc.)
Yeah I think the setup of the show initially was to basically split ‘The Captain’ role in half. Picard gets to do the speechifying and be the moral core of the show, while Riker gets to be the youngish fun action dude. But, Stewart (understandably) didn’t like not getting to do things, so he becomes much more active as a character, and it’s pretty clear in retrospect that they never came up with any super compelling storyline or place for Riker after BoBW. Of the XO characters on the various series who didn’t have dual roles, the only one who had really compelling things to do was Kira, IMO. And that’s because she had built in friction with the Captain, an interesting backstory, and issues of faith to deal with.
Well to be fair, Riker has to spend some of his time stepping back into his own reality and timeline to run his business empire and plot against the Gargoyles.
Hey now, they worked things out, they're cool.
Now he just has to focus on keeping Oberon from taking away his quarter-magic son of royal lineage because Oberon is such a dick that even Puck went "dude, stop being a dick". Normal rich guy things.
Honestly Riker and Worf's relationship is great and I've decided that anytime Riker bites Worf's head off what he's actually doing is engaging Worf on his own terms, in Klingon, and Worf mainly allows it because Riker has earned it.
Given Riker’s role in A Matter of Honor, it’s a bit odd he didn’t have more involvement with Worf’s Klingon-succession storylines. I think it may just be that the First Officer role has in the show is tough to plot for, because they aren’t a specialist who is going to be solving the science problems or the security person who might get action scenes or whatever. Their role is somewhat similar to the Captain’s, but their impact has to be lesser since they don’t have the ultimate ‘decider’ role.
Yeah but in Sins of the Father when Picard becomes his Cha’DIch and the Duras brat is like "Starfleet ain't teach you to fight" and Picard is basically like "Fuck around and find out." It's so good
Riker already had that same situation as an exchange officer, and his answer was to put a dude's head through a console. Which was also badass but I like the comparison.
I mean, starfleet comes from a humanity that almost destroyed itself in war. In a way it's like post ww2 Europe.
Yeah, it's not warlike. But only because it pretty much tried every atrocity in war and got exhausted from all of it, not because they're some holy always-pacifists
+3
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Honestly Riker and Worf's relationship is great and I've decided that anytime Riker bites Worf's head off what he's actually doing is engaging Worf on his own terms, in Klingon, and Worf mainly allows it because Riker has earned it.
Given Riker’s role in A Matter of Honor, it’s a bit odd he didn’t have more involvement with Worf’s Klingon-succession storylines. I think it may just be that the First Officer role has in the show is tough to plot for, because they aren’t a specialist who is going to be solving the science problems or the security person who might get action scenes or whatever. Their role is somewhat similar to the Captain’s, but their impact has to be lesser since they don’t have the ultimate ‘decider’ role.
Yeah but in Sins of the Father when Picard becomes his Cha’DIch and the Duras brat is like "Starfleet ain't teach you to fight" and Picard is basically like "Fuck around and find out." It's so good
Riker already had that same situation as an exchange officer, and his answer was to put a dude's head through a console. Which was also badass but I like the comparison.
I mean, starfleet comes from a humanity that almost destroyed itself in war. In a way it's like post ww2 Europe.
Yeah, it's not warlike. But only because it pretty much tried every atrocity in war and got exhausted from all of it, not because they're some holy always-pacifists
They didn't even really get exhausted by it, humanity just collectively realized it couldn't do war at home anymore without killing itself. Thus motivating humanity to develop FTL technology, so we could go out and have war out in space without blowing up Earth.
Honestly Riker and Worf's relationship is great and I've decided that anytime Riker bites Worf's head off what he's actually doing is engaging Worf on his own terms, in Klingon, and Worf mainly allows it because Riker has earned it.
Given Riker’s role in A Matter of Honor, it’s a bit odd he didn’t have more involvement with Worf’s Klingon-succession storylines. I think it may just be that the First Officer role has in the show is tough to plot for, because they aren’t a specialist who is going to be solving the science problems or the security person who might get action scenes or whatever. Their role is somewhat similar to the Captain’s, but their impact has to be lesser since they don’t have the ultimate ‘decider’ role.
Yeah but in Sins of the Father when Picard becomes his Cha’DIch and the Duras brat is like "Starfleet ain't teach you to fight" and Picard is basically like "Fuck around and find out." It's so good
Riker already had that same situation as an exchange officer, and his answer was to put a dude's head through a console. Which was also badass but I like the comparison.
I mean, starfleet comes from a humanity that almost destroyed itself in war. In a way it's like post ww2 Europe.
Yeah, it's not warlike. But only because it pretty much tried every atrocity in war and got exhausted from all of it, not because they're some holy always-pacifists
They didn't even really get exhausted by it, humanity just collectively realized it couldn't do war at home anymore without killing itself. Thus motivating humanity to develop FTL technology, so we could go out and have war out in space without blowing up Earth.
Ditto the Vulcans, most of whom decided to embrace repression logic and pacifism, and those who wouldn't/couldn't fucked off to the stars to eventually become the Romulans. Because otherwise they were looking at another nuclear war.
We don't have a canon history for the Andorians, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had a similar "look, we can't keep doing this to ourselves, we've gotten too good at it" crisis in their history. It seems to be a thing that most of the "important" species go through, part of their messy adolescence. (And there are surely others we never heard about, or only found ruins, because they didn't make that choice and live to tell about about it.) The Klingons are a notable exception; they were conquered by aliens (the Hur'q), and eventually kicked their bug asses, took their ships, and just kept going until they'd built themselves an empire. They got where they are without ever having to do that bit of "growing up" as a culture.
I want future Star Trek series to absolutely lean into the silliness of the traditional ST hand-to-hand combat style. Talk up the amazingness of the double axehandle. Have the "greatest hand to hand fighter in Starfleet" going around in action scenes just fucking people up with that move and act like this is totally normal.
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As with all things, Simpsons did it first.
It sounds similar to the claim the Simpsons writers/producers have made, that using nothing but existing Simpsons clips they could probably recreate either Citizen Kane or Cape Feare.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
We just got done with Prodigal Daughter. Hey, they have some continuity and bring back that Billby plotline for the Chief! That's good! Oh, they expect me to side with Ezri and think that her mother is to blame for one of her sons murdering someone because she was kind of controlling. That's bad. Like, really bad.
And I guess we're just going to drop the plot of the Orion syndicate putting the squeeze on the family business because they're in debt to them? I guess we are.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
The yells of, "What the fuck!" at the credits were delightful
I remember DS9 doing well as a sort of cross between a spin-off and sequel series to TNG, I assume it's worth watching as well (I probably will watch it either way), is it worth hopping back and forth between the two to stay chronological? Or maybe just witching between seasons starting with DS9's first season after TNG's 6th? Or is there no real reason not to just watch all of TNG then all of DS9?
Probably gonna try to get my wife into the series at some point, I do think the movies mostly hold up. I remember liking Insurrection and First Contact, at least (Nemesis was bad, if only as a finale compared to All Good Things).
It's fine to start after finishing TNG.
The kind of fourth point was the DS9 writers calling bullshit on the ship duel in Generations, and isn't really continuity, just a bit of context that benefits from knowing those events happen within days of each other.
They handle it far more actively, changing the shield frequency through the full spectrum while maintaining fire, then dropping shields entirely and overcharging the weapons. She ultimately goes down with all guns blazing after forcing the enemy to go full Janeway and ram them head on.
At least it proves the O'Brian curse is genetic.
I never remembered it being so hit or miss the from first time I watched the series, but on my recent rewatch...oh yeah, it really drags. Has the dizzying highs of take me out and paper moon, and the cringe worthy lows of Chrysalis. And then several episodes like Treachery, Faith, and the Great River which basically take what would normally be a short scene between characters and stretches it out into a very mediocre full length episode.
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CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Plus season 2 had the best Picard line:
Oh, cluck, cluck, cluck, Number One.
You're being a mother hen.
Oh... very clever. Eat any good books lately?
So many of the main cast are great giving reactions when they don’t have dialogue in a scene. Sadly, some of Sirtis ’ best work in TNG is that kind of thing given how dire the writers were with her character.
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
There's an amazing scene in the episode where Worf breaks his back and he asks Riker to kill him and Riker and him have a giant argument.
One of the interesting contrasts with TNG and DS9 that I like is that Worf and Riker seem more like friends whereas Worf and Sisko feels much more like a professional relationship. Sisko respects him and wants to mould him into a better command officer but at least in the initial few seasons they don't feel like best buds or anything in the same way.
Given Riker’s role in A Matter of Honor, it’s a bit odd he didn’t have more involvement with Worf’s Klingon-succession storylines. I think it may just be that the First Officer role has in the show is tough to plot for, because they aren’t a specialist who is going to be solving the science problems or the security person who might get action scenes or whatever. Their role is somewhat similar to the Captain’s, but their impact has to be lesser since they don’t have the ultimate ‘decider’ role.
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
Yeah but in Sins of the Father when Picard becomes his Cha’DIch and the Duras brat is like "Starfleet ain't teach you to fight" and Picard is basically like "Fuck around and find out." It's so good
I have to assume we'd have seen Worf or Picard bust out unstoppable Kirk-fu moves like the butt drop and the double axehandle punch if it really came down to fisticuffs there.
He actually gets in a fight in like the next scene or two!
I should have added, when I was watching the scene where Worf asked him, I was like "Dude, Riker is right there." But Riker would have been way more aggressive with that line (and it wasn't a Riker line at all). So I understood a little but also I just wanna see Riker and Worf just bro'ing across the galaxy together. It makes the twist from All Good Things way more impactful to me
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
Yeah, Kira being not-Starfleet gives her a ton more leeway to have her own stories.
Riker already had that same situation as an exchange officer, and his answer was to put a dude's head through a console. Which was also badass but I like the comparison.
Well to be fair, Riker has to spend some of his time stepping back into his own reality and timeline to run his business empire and plot against the Gargoyles.
Yeah, I think Picard in that two parter was absolutely awesome, and the show definitely got better as it let Stewart do more. Just always unfortunate when a pretty neat character kind of goes nowhere because the writers don’t seem to know what to do with them and/or are afraid of making big changes. (Same kind of thing happened to Apollo on BSG when they decided to keep Helo around. They gave the latter the former’s spot as ‘the principled one’ with no idea what to do to keep the former interesting. Which is probably why we got ridiculous fat suits, etc, etc.)
"The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
Hey now, they worked things out, they're cool.
Now he just has to focus on keeping Oberon from taking away his quarter-magic son of royal lineage because Oberon is such a dick that even Puck went "dude, stop being a dick". Normal rich guy things.
I mean, starfleet comes from a humanity that almost destroyed itself in war. In a way it's like post ww2 Europe.
Yeah, it's not warlike. But only because it pretty much tried every atrocity in war and got exhausted from all of it, not because they're some holy always-pacifists
They didn't even really get exhausted by it, humanity just collectively realized it couldn't do war at home anymore without killing itself. Thus motivating humanity to develop FTL technology, so we could go out and have war out in space without blowing up Earth.
Ditto the Vulcans, most of whom decided to embrace repression logic and pacifism, and those who wouldn't/couldn't fucked off to the stars to eventually become the Romulans. Because otherwise they were looking at another nuclear war.
We don't have a canon history for the Andorians, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had a similar "look, we can't keep doing this to ourselves, we've gotten too good at it" crisis in their history. It seems to be a thing that most of the "important" species go through, part of their messy adolescence. (And there are surely others we never heard about, or only found ruins, because they didn't make that choice and live to tell about about it.) The Klingons are a notable exception; they were conquered by aliens (the Hur'q), and eventually kicked their bug asses, took their ships, and just kept going until they'd built themselves an empire. They got where they are without ever having to do that bit of "growing up" as a culture.
One imagines buried in some Founder hand to hand combat manual for the Jem'Hadar there's an entire section on the dreaded double axe handle.