Conservatives like how well the Ferengi represent their philosophy and ideal society.
"You're taking this too personally. Okay, I cheated you. I cheat everyone. It's business. You see what you can get away with, and you've got to figure the other guy's doing the same to you."
"The speed of technological advancement isn't nearly as important as short-term quarterly gains."
"You don't understand. Ferengi workers don't want to stop the exploitation, we want to find a way to become the exploiters."
Man, what could have been with Voyager just makes me sad sometimes.
Eh. The damning thing about The Thaw is that it could have been an episode from any of the 90s series. Shit, it could easily be a TOS episode. Or even ENT I guess, if you wanted to ruin the premise with blandness. It could have been a TNG episode without changing almost anything and probably would have been better for it. Which is just kinda sad in terms of what it says about Voyager.
I'm not entirely sure this would have played better in many of the other series. Picard, for all that I love him, is not the person to face down fear and make fear be the one who is afraid. Certainly Captain Archer is not. Though I do agree that Kirk and Sisko are the sorts who could fill that role.
Really? I see Picard doing that any day of the week. Picard is absolutely the kind of guy to calmly stare down an actual enemy. Plus you know Stewart would have knocked that shit out of the park. You replace The Doctor with Data, which is a side-grade since The Doctor is great. And Kim with, like, anyone and so it's instantly better.
Calmly, yes. Sinisterly, no.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Man, what could have been with Voyager just makes me sad sometimes.
Eh. The damning thing about The Thaw is that it could have been an episode from any of the 90s series. Shit, it could easily be a TOS episode. Or even ENT I guess, if you wanted to ruin the premise with blandness. It could have been a TNG episode without changing almost anything and probably would have been better for it. Which is just kinda sad in terms of what it says about Voyager.
I'm not entirely sure this would have played better in many of the other series. Picard, for all that I love him, is not the person to face down fear and make fear be the one who is afraid. Certainly Captain Archer is not. Though I do agree that Kirk and Sisko are the sorts who could fill that role.
Really? I see Picard doing that any day of the week. Picard is absolutely the kind of guy to calmly stare down an actual enemy. Plus you know Stewart would have knocked that shit out of the park. You replace The Doctor with Data, which is a side-grade since The Doctor is great. And Kim with, like, anyone and so it's instantly better.
Calmly, yes. Sinisterly, no.
I could picture a version of this where HoloPicard is nobly sacrificing his fleeting existence to help whoever was the hostage. Probably Geordi.
This thought exercise is actually kinda fun in showing how quintessentially Trek the concept is. That might be a knock against Voyager, that any crew could have handled it, but hey, they did a great job.
Also it's one of those episodes you don't need to know too much about the specific show to have fun with.
+1
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Yeah I'm not really interested in watching that video. I have no reason to start shitting all over people for why they like the things I like when I can just shit over them for their actual views instead.
Yeah I'm not really interested in watching that video. I have no reason to start shitting all over people for why they like the things I like when I can just shit over them for their actual views instead.
He doesn't shit on conservatives for liking Star Trek. Quite the opposite, he says it's ok, anyone can like whatever show they want for whatever reason they want. And he's right about that. It's art, and there's no right way or wrong way to enjoy art. He mostly explains to the rest of us what conservatives like about Star Trek, a show that overtly attacks every value they hold dear and shows how much better humanity would be without them. I found it quite informative.
He also shits on conservatives for their actual views.
2020 conservatives were 1990 moderates and 1960 liberals.
Trek left them behind, exactly as it should. The fact they couldn’t keep an open mind on personal freedom and inclusion is their business.
Conservatives and even liberals have been moving to the right for decades. Modern US politics would be almost unrecognizable to either party 50 years ago
2020 conservatives were 1990 moderates and 1960 liberals.
Trek left them behind, exactly as it should. The fact they couldn’t keep an open mind on personal freedom and inclusion is their business.
Conservatives and even liberals have been moving to the right for decades. Modern US politics would be almost unrecognizable to either party 50 years ago
I don’t think it maps to a spectrum so cleanly. 1960s Americans were far more invested in rehabilitative over retributive than we are today. On the other hand, there is no chance that an openly gay man would’ve been a serious contender for the 1960 Presidential Election.
It’s more than the goals and fears of American politics have changed. Things people considered radical in the 1960s, like women in the military, are commonplace. There are women in the Senate who are combat veterans—two of them are Republicans. At the same time, things considered inevitable in the 1960s—like the total abolition of the death penalty—are virtual pipedreams today.
Trek reflects this. Everybody points to the importance of Kirk and Uhura sharing one of the first interracial kisses on television. Have you ever seen anyone talk about how Burnham and Tyler might be the first Black/Arab couple on mainstream American TV.
That’s a wall of text. People who like Trump and Trek are probably dumb and definitely confused. They should be run out of town on a rail painted like a warp nacelle and leave the decent part of the fandom alone.
2020 conservatives were 1990 moderates and 1960 liberals.
Trek left them behind, exactly as it should. The fact they couldn’t keep an open mind on personal freedom and inclusion is their business.
Conservatives and even liberals have been moving to the right for decades. Modern US politics would be almost unrecognizable to either party 50 years ago
Not really, no. On either of these. There's been consistent movement leftward among liberals in the US, from moderates to the far left, just as an example.
And as it relates to this thread, Trek didn't leave anyone behind. The Outcast, an episode with a pretty clear LGBTQ+ subtext, was broadcast in fucking 92. Uhura and Kirk are macking back in 68, while hanging out on the bridge with a russian and an asian man.
And the same people who were against interraccial relationships in 68 were still against gay relationships in 92 and are probably pushing bathroom bills right now.
V'Ger. V'Ger was given godlike powers by a race of machines and it went back to earth to look for its creator. V'Ger wasn't malicious but it was so far beyond humans that it didn't even recognize humans as lifeforms. My hope is that it will be revealed that when synthetic life evolves to a certain point, they are detected by the creators of V'Ger. Then they send probes similar to V'Ger. But they are so powerful that they accidentally step on organics like ants.
Because if it turns out to be something like the Reapers, it would be really dumb.
+4
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
A funny thing I thought of about Rizzo
When she was talking to her aunt in the hospital bed, I really wanted her to do the whole "I'm a sexy incest lady, let me smooch on you" thing with auntie. Like as if that's her character trait, constantly coming on to relatives.
Also tonight's episode pretty much double-down on the "Rizzo is Kai Leng" thing. I can't wait for her to send a troll email to Picard
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Didn't like this episode at all. Everything is so conveniently fitting together now and they're planning on a season 2? All the mystery is practically gone now. It's like Twin Peaks when the murder was solved and yet the writers tried to continue with shitty stories about the townsfolk to keep it going. (Disclaimer, I haven't seen the new Twin Peaks.)
Specific complaints below the spoiler:
The swearing is fine but, c'mon. An admiral just cursing out Picard is just a hackneyed way to add more emotion to an otherwise empty scene.
Also too, I mean, jokes about Mass Effect aside, are they seriously going to crib the entire basis of the Mass Effect series?
Suddenly Rios's mysterious past was related to the Synths all along? Suddenly Oh and Rizzo were behind welll.... everything? Suddenly Soji has a deus ex machina moment (pun intended) and remembers everything? Suddenly the big story and world-building I was expecting has gotten a lot smaller.
DisruptedCapitalist on
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
+2
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I see a lot of you are unhappy with it, but for me
someone with the skill to flesh out a plot taking all the lovely teasing hints of a good story that Mass Effect didn't quite form into a coherent through-line is EXACTLY what I would like to see.
Words cannot really convey how jazzed I am to see that plotline on capable hands. Yes, reapers and all.
The idea of an advanced civilization reorganizing matter at the star level in order to send an inter-galactic message was a really rad original spin on it, too, so it's not like they're doing a shot for shot remake or something. They're taking a really cool prompt and exploring it their own way. I love it.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
I hadn't noticed the background sound effects before (if they were even in previous episodes) but I absolutely loved how the common area, for lack of a better term, had the Enterprise-D bridge sounds going on and sickbay had TOS sickbay bwoops. Super cute.
Gathering the five holograms up to try and piece together the mystery feels so quintessentially Trek. That was a great scene.
You're not wrong that there is a lot of Mass Effect DNA in this, but I'm still curious to see their take on it. I'm hoping it really was a Whale Probe situation where whatever the admonition was was a failure of understanding. It's those failures and challenges Trek is good at exploring. I hope the walls of Shaka do not fall again.
Yeah, I expect that the Admonition was either misunderstood by those who found it, and that misunderstanding became dogma (see Halo); or it *cough* conveniently omitted some little detail like "actually they tried to kill us because we tried to kill all of them first" (see the Geth).
what makes no sense to me regarding the admonission:
the warning clearly occurs after the catastrophe. so there's this race of super people that can drag 8 suns across the universe after being ostensibly wiped out, but they can't rebuild? what?
what makes no sense to me regarding the admonission:
the warning clearly occurs after the catastrophe. so there's this race of super people that can drag 8 suns across the universe after being ostensibly wiped out, but they can't rebuild? what?
They still had their stellar moving technology, but lacked the infrastructure to maintain it after it broke down
what makes no sense to me regarding the admonission:
the warning clearly occurs after the catastrophe. so there's this race of super people that can drag 8 suns across the universe after being ostensibly wiped out, but they can't rebuild? what?
Well, I liked the latest episode. I like the way they wrote Agnes, I thought the
hologram
scene was fun, I liked what they did with
Seven and Elf boy
Yeah, ok, there are a lot of parallels between this and Mass Effect, but I loved Mass Effect, which, itself, is completely a take on Star Trek already and the mainstream doesn't know that story, so I don't see that as a bad thing, at all.
This is good TV and I love watching it with my wife so nyah to you if you don't like it.
3DS FC: 1547-5210-6531
+2
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Didn't like this episode at all. Everything is so conveniently fitting together now and they're planning on a season 2? All the mystery is practically gone now. It's like Twin Peaks when the murder was solved and yet the writers tried to continue with shitty stories about the townsfolk to keep it going. (Disclaimer, I haven't seen the new Twin Peaks.)
Specific complaints below the spoiler:
The swearing is fine but, c'mon. An admiral just cursing out Picard is just a hackneyed way to add more emotion to an otherwise empty scene.
Also too, I mean, jokes about Mass Effect aside, are they seriously going to crib the entire basis of the Mass Effect series?
Suddenly Rios's mysterious past was related to the Synths all along? Suddenly Oh and Rizzo were behind welll.... everything? Suddenly Soji has a deus ex machina moment (pun intended) and remembers everything? Suddenly the big story and world-building I was expecting has gotten a lot smaller.
Keep in mind this entire season was already filmed before episode 1 even aired. They are not making changes on the fly or anything like that. Hell they may have finished season 1 before they even knew they'd get a season 2. For me, I'm glad we are starting to get some pay-offs.
That small bit rekindled my strong like of them as an enemy / threat. That and....
When she asked the Romulan Centurion if she was scared of them and he's like, yes, absolutely lol.
Followed by that scene
where they just super casually break his neck and step into hallway behind her.
For a split second I thought that was just one of the Super Tal Shiar killing any witnesses to Rizzo's schemes. But that might have bordered on parody.
+8
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Seven being the queen of a benevolent mini-collective might have been cool. They sure like to tease shit in this show.
+5
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Also, am I to understand this borg cube shut down because when they assimilated
Auntie Tarot Cards she was cuckoo for cocoa puffs and the collective couldn't handle it?
Posts
He says pretty much what I think. Except I would have insulted conservatives more.
"You're taking this too personally. Okay, I cheated you. I cheat everyone. It's business. You see what you can get away with, and you've got to figure the other guy's doing the same to you."
"The speed of technological advancement isn't nearly as important as short-term quarterly gains."
"You don't understand. Ferengi workers don't want to stop the exploitation, we want to find a way to become the exploiters."
Trek left them behind, exactly as it should. The fact they couldn’t keep an open mind on personal freedom and inclusion is their business.
Yeah, no. I'm pretty sure 1960s liberals were not neo-nazis openly endorsing hate crimes.
Calmly, yes. Sinisterly, no.
I could picture a version of this where HoloPicard is nobly sacrificing his fleeting existence to help whoever was the hostage. Probably Geordi.
This thought exercise is actually kinda fun in showing how quintessentially Trek the concept is. That might be a knock against Voyager, that any crew could have handled it, but hey, they did a great job.
Also it's one of those episodes you don't need to know too much about the specific show to have fun with.
He doesn't shit on conservatives for liking Star Trek. Quite the opposite, he says it's ok, anyone can like whatever show they want for whatever reason they want. And he's right about that. It's art, and there's no right way or wrong way to enjoy art. He mostly explains to the rest of us what conservatives like about Star Trek, a show that overtly attacks every value they hold dear and shows how much better humanity would be without them. I found it quite informative.
He also shits on conservatives for their actual views.
Conservatives and even liberals have been moving to the right for decades. Modern US politics would be almost unrecognizable to either party 50 years ago
I don’t think it maps to a spectrum so cleanly. 1960s Americans were far more invested in rehabilitative over retributive than we are today. On the other hand, there is no chance that an openly gay man would’ve been a serious contender for the 1960 Presidential Election.
It’s more than the goals and fears of American politics have changed. Things people considered radical in the 1960s, like women in the military, are commonplace. There are women in the Senate who are combat veterans—two of them are Republicans. At the same time, things considered inevitable in the 1960s—like the total abolition of the death penalty—are virtual pipedreams today.
Trek reflects this. Everybody points to the importance of Kirk and Uhura sharing one of the first interracial kisses on television. Have you ever seen anyone talk about how Burnham and Tyler might be the first Black/Arab couple on mainstream American TV.
That’s a wall of text. People who like Trump and Trek are probably dumb and definitely confused. They should be run out of town on a rail painted like a warp nacelle and leave the decent part of the fandom alone.
This has been my TED talk.
Not really, no. On either of these. There's been consistent movement leftward among liberals in the US, from moderates to the far left, just as an example.
And as it relates to this thread, Trek didn't leave anyone behind. The Outcast, an episode with a pretty clear LGBTQ+ subtext, was broadcast in fucking 92. Uhura and Kirk are macking back in 68, while hanging out on the bridge with a russian and an asian man.
And the same people who were against interraccial relationships in 68 were still against gay relationships in 92 and are probably pushing bathroom bills right now.
Chills
We have dismissed that claim.
Because if it turns out to be something like the Reapers, it would be really dumb.
Also tonight's episode pretty much double-down on the "Rizzo is Kai Leng" thing. I can't wait for her to send a troll email to Picard
Specific complaints below the spoiler:
Also too, I mean, jokes about Mass Effect aside, are they seriously going to crib the entire basis of the Mass Effect series?
Suddenly Rios's mysterious past was related to the Synths all along? Suddenly Oh and Rizzo were behind welll.... everything? Suddenly Soji has a deus ex machina moment (pun intended) and remembers everything? Suddenly the big story and world-building I was expecting has gotten a lot smaller.
Words cannot really convey how jazzed I am to see that plotline on capable hands. Yes, reapers and all.
The idea of an advanced civilization reorganizing matter at the star level in order to send an inter-galactic message was a really rad original spin on it, too, so it's not like they're doing a shot for shot remake or something. They're taking a really cool prompt and exploring it their own way. I love it.
You're not wrong that there is a lot of Mass Effect DNA in this, but I'm still curious to see their take on it. I'm hoping it really was a Whale Probe situation where whatever the admonition was was a failure of understanding. It's those failures and challenges Trek is good at exploring. I hope the walls of Shaka do not fall again.
Also, I never knew there was a 🖖 emoji on my phone!!😆🔥👀💖
They did, but then the Tyranids came.
Actually all joking aside Cambiata made a good point so I'm still cautiously optimistic. There were still a lot of nice moments in that episode like
Yeah, ok, there are a lot of parallels between this and Mass Effect, but I loved Mass Effect, which, itself, is completely a take on Star Trek already and the mainstream doesn't know that story, so I don't see that as a bad thing, at all.
This is good TV and I love watching it with my wife so nyah to you if you don't like it.
Keep in mind this entire season was already filmed before episode 1 even aired. They are not making changes on the fly or anything like that. Hell they may have finished season 1 before they even knew they'd get a season 2. For me, I'm glad we are starting to get some pay-offs.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Followed by that scene