Star Trek: Picard is out! Spoilers in effect!

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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    mark my words, this whole thing will end with a beam in to the sky, like just about every super hero movie.

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  • LJDouglasLJDouglas Registered User regular
    With all the Mass Effect influences on this season's plot, I will respect the writers forever if they contrive to have a red, green and blue beam firing into the sky resolve the plot.

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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    This whole series is weird. I don't know if I'd call it "Star Trek". I know some people were kind of hoping it would be a return to the likes of TNG and DS9, and it's certainly not that. I don't think we'll ever get those kinds of television shows again, and that's fine. While I'm not unentertained, I'm also not terribly interested either. This entire serialized plot is just kinda... meh. What I can say though, is that while this in no way feels like the Star Trek stories of old, this absolutely does feel like it's in the Star Trek universe. It's honestly a bit strange to find a work that doesn't have indifference, ignorance, or outright hostility to its source IP these days. And it's for that reason that I want to keep watching, even if I'm not a terrible fan of the new style of story being told.

    As for how this all ends, I would be OK with literal usage of the Deus Ex Machina device and having Q just show up out of nowhere screaming "What the hell have you gotten yourself into this time, Jean-Luc?!".

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  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Star Trek generally doesn't go as big as
    total annihilation of all life. Well I guess the super synths won't necessarily succeed but that still seems like something Q would be interested in. Honestly it's more like a Doctor Who plot, especially with how casual everyone was being about it, a godlike being wrapping it up real quick feels appropriate.

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  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    Ok hear me out. Final episode
    Q vs synth Q. Sass off for the universe

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  • SneaksSneaks Registered User regular
    edited March 25
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    mark my words, this whole thing will end with a beam in to the sky, like just about every super hero movie.
    I really, really, wish this wasn't true... but I suspect you are correct.

    I'm also more than ready for this to swerve away from Mass Effect.
    I think part of Trek's optimism is typically implicit in how it depicts the "highest" forms of life. As KingofMadCows cited, if they're hostile to us (or anyone), it's either unintentional, like V'Ger, or it's an individual rogue agent who is not acting as their societies would wish—à la Q or Trelane. When awareness of "lower" beings is present in these higher forms, their societies tend to have a degree of compassion for those who are different. Q, in his paradoxically asinine way, more or less states that such compassion is mandatory (on a societal if not an individual level) to reach such heights.

    The concept of the Reapers runs contrary to this, I think. Fear of the other and a certainty that differences can never be reconciled is the Reapers' very reason for being, and—if we take the Admonition at face value—Picard's iteration of them maintains this. I really hope that, as KingofMadCows suggests: the Admonition is a Farpoint-style test that Sutra is about to utterly fail, with Picard being the only person capable of talking down Commodore Oh et. al. in the presence of her worst nightmare.

    Sneaks on
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I don't think we're going to get actual Reapers, but I love all the Star Trek solving a Mass Effect problem in an optimistic yet human Star Trek way, give me that all day long.

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  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Reapers are just Shadows with less thought put in to them.

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  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited March 24
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Reapers are just Shadows with less thought put in to them.

    Agree, I actually just finished ME3 a few months ago and despite the trilogy overall being awesome, it still left a sour taste in my mouth. All throughout the 2nd and 3rd games, you are involved with synthetic life being a part of everyday life and how it's positive and how it can grow and its all good. But then when it comes to the reapers and the final outcome, it's all "nope, all synthetic life will inevitably conflict with organic, no exceptions, here is this false choice THAT YOU MUST CHOOSE WITH NO EXCEPTIONS none of which have great outcomes, it's all just less bad.

    So yeah, that last episode just reeked of that same forced conflict,
    you have this nice family of Datas...all peaceful and positive (or are they?) But yet the overarching plot is just "NO WE GOTTA FIGHT THEM. ITS US OR THEM!! KILL KILL KILL" and it's just...ugh, no.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Reapers are just Shadows with less thought put in to them.

    Agree, I actually just finished ME3 a few months ago and despite the trilogy overall being awesome, it still left a sour taste in my mouth. All throughout the 2nd and 3rd games, you are involved with synthetic life being a part of everyday life and how it's positive and how it can grow and its all good. But then when it comes to the reapers and the final outcome, it's all "nope, all synthetic life will inevitably conflict with organic, no exceptions, here is this false choice THAT YOU MUST CHOOSE WITH NO EXCEPTIONS none of which have great outcomes, it's all just less bad.

    It's funny because if they'd gone with what ME3 seemed to actually be moving towards, it would have been so very Star Trek. Sheppard gets to the end and basically argues the Reapers into defeat by pointing out how they've already demonstrated that organic and synthetic life can learn to coexist.

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  • MsAnthropyMsAnthropy Our Lady of Perpetual Mazes The CageRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Reapers are just Shadows with less thought put in to them.

    Agree, I actually just finished ME3 a few months ago and despite the trilogy overall being awesome, it still left a sour taste in my mouth. All throughout the 2nd and 3rd games, you are involved with synthetic life being a part of everyday life and how it's positive and how it can grow and its all good. But then when it comes to the reapers and the final outcome, it's all "nope, all synthetic life will inevitably conflict with organic, no exceptions, here is this false choice THAT YOU MUST CHOOSE WITH NO EXCEPTIONS none of which have great outcomes, it's all just less bad.

    It's funny because if they'd gone with what ME3 seemed to actually be moving towards, it would have been so very Star Trek. Sheppard gets to the end and basically argues the Reapers into defeat by pointing out how they've already demonstrated that organic and synthetic life can learn to coexist.

    I think it would’ve been more like B5 with Shepard using an interrupt to tell the Reapers to get the hell out of her galaxy ala Sheridan.

    I don’t find the cribbed ME3 plot line at all compelling, but the thing that really disappoints me about Picard is how the show doesn’t seem to get, or frankly, even like the title character.

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  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    VoodooV wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Reapers are just Shadows with less thought put in to them.

    Agree, I actually just finished ME3 a few months ago and despite the trilogy overall being awesome, it still left a sour taste in my mouth. All throughout the 2nd and 3rd games, you are involved with synthetic life being a part of everyday life and how it's positive and how it can grow and its all good. But then when it comes to the reapers and the final outcome, it's all "nope, all synthetic life will inevitably conflict with organic, no exceptions, here is this false choice THAT YOU MUST CHOOSE WITH NO EXCEPTIONS none of which have great outcomes, it's all just less bad.

    It's funny because if they'd gone with what ME3 seemed to actually be moving towards, it would have been so very Star Trek. Sheppard gets to the end and basically argues the Reapers into defeat by pointing out how they've already demonstrated that organic and synthetic life can learn to coexist.

    I think it would’ve been more like B5 with Shepard using an interrupt to tell the Reapers to get the hell out of her galaxy ala Sheridan.

    I don’t find the cribbed ME3 plot line at all compelling, but the thing that really disappoints me about Picard is how the show doesn’t seem to get, or frankly, even like the title character.

    hell, they don't seem to like the whole Federation. it's definitely no longer the utopia we used to know. racism, substance abuse, who knows what else.

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  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    I'd hope the writers aren't going for a mass effect inspired end run as me3 deviated from what was originally planned for the game
    suns dying out faster than "intended" due to eezo use.
    and ended up with .. an ai pointing at a self-fulfilling prophecy it came up with.

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  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Well, I thought Picard's conversation with Sojji where he's like uhh could you please be more specific was very good.

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  • SnicketysnickSnicketysnick The Greatest Hype Man in WesterosRegistered User regular
    One for the US folks but if you don't have the cbs thing you can get in for free now?

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  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    mark my words, this whole thing will end with a beam in to the sky, like just about every super hero movie.
    Spoiler, kinda, but not really since it's at the end of episode 9 in the "NEXT TIME ON PICARD CLIP" -
    They already showed the laser going into the sky and a portal opening.

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  • GrisloGrislo Registered User regular
    edited March 24
    Some of ya'll are slinging some spoilers with your references and broad talk.

    Grislo on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Grislo wrote: »
    Some of ya'll are are slinging some spoilers with your references and broad talk.

    Yeah, seriously. Can we keep the talk behind the spoiler tags. Especially since you are spoiler-tagging anyway, so it's not like you are saving yourself a click here.

  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    The "synthetic life will conflict with organic life" is dumb anyway, because organic life conflicts with organic life. Do extinct races feel better about it if a different race did it vs a bunch of robots?

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  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Let's get spoilers back in the spoiler hole, yo.

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited March 25
    So I've been quiet trying to not make the thread just a bitching place and trying to give this show the benefit but what the fuck. ugh. with 1 episode left I don't see how they're going to make this a good season of TV. At this point this show just seems to exist in some parallel universe and makes no sense compared to where things got left off with TNG/DS9/Voy. Probably not worth going into details really but ugh, so disappointing.

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  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    I think all in all it's been a pretty good show. Does it have problems? Sure. And have I already sort of resigned myself to the fact that the finale is going to likely be unsatisfying? Yeah. But there's been a lot of good in there in there too.

  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    I think all in all it's been a pretty good show. Does it have problems? Sure. And have I already sort of resigned myself to the fact that the finale is going to likely be unsatisfying? Yeah. But there's been a lot of good in there in there too.

    I think the only parts of the show I've legitimately enjoyed were the Riker/Troi conversations where things were slowed waaaaaaay down and given time to breath and even that stuff had problems.

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  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    OK, so the Picard finale pretty much crapped the bed. So much dumb stuff.
    It didn't make any sense for the Romulans to all fight the orchids and the La Sirena holograms. They had 218 ships. They only needed 1 ship to blow up the synth colony. They were expecting the universe to end at any minute, there was absolutely no reason for them to wait for their entire fleet to target the planet. Just have some ships fight the orchids/holograms and have the rest blow up the colony.

    Why does it matter that they shut down the beacon? The super synths already know where they are. They can just come anyway. In fact, shutting down the beacon should make the super synths want to come even more. The super synths created the admonition under the assumption that organic-synth conflict is inevitable. The beacon was meant to be a call for help. If it was suddenly shut down, they would assume that it was because the synths who built it were under attack by filthy organics. It's like if a 911 operator got a call from someone who was screaming for help and then the line suddenly went dead. The operator wouldn't just assume that everything was fine.

    Why would the Romulans leave? So what if the synths destroyed this beacon? The beacon is not some kind of unique magical artifact. The synths can still build another one. The Zhat Vash are so fanatical that they were willing to sabotage a fleet meant to rescue 900 million Romulans just so they could get the Federation to ban synths. They sacrificed 900 million of their own people just to prevent the possibility that advanced synths could be created. Now they're just letting dozens of synths who actually have knowledge of the super synths and the beacon go?

    Overall, I am very disappointed with this show. Everything is so rushed. The actual interesting plotline with the Romulan supernova, evacuation, and refugee crisis was just dropped. The synth stuff just kept getting dumber and dumber. A good Picard speech isn't enough to save the idiocy. This is on the level of some of the worst season 1/2 TNG or season 3 TOS episodes.

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  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    because of free month all access i'm starting up. i don't really care about spoilers so i have been reading comments. The first few episodes are pretty good. There's some action but there's also some good thoughtfulness to it. I enjoy
    seeing picard getting beaten up for "giving up". I don't know if i believe that's how it should have gone but i can see him so shocked by having his resignation accepted that he just kind of doesn't know what to do.

    the synth story line is far less interesting than picard trying to make amends for his failure. That the writer is aware people were expecting top secret diplomatic mission but instead we're getting action show to save synth girl doesn't make it better.
    I'm still enjoying it very much and so far the actors are doing a good to great job.

  • ThisThis Registered User regular
    That finale was so much ridiculous stupidity like what the hell.

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  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    I really enjoyed the finale personally. I won't say I have loved all the action bits, but I have also never come to Trek for awesome action bits. Some top shelf Picard speech in that finale which is what I signed up for in the end.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    oh my god they really
    stole the plot from the bad mass effect trilogy game

    I am in disbelief

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  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    final episode.
    You were right about the beam into the sky @DanHibiki. And yep, the super synths were Reapers. This whole thing was just cribbed from Mass Effect. We did have our sass-off, it was just IncestRomulan vs Seven in a very stupid fight that was telegraphed way in advance and ended in a very stupid way. No explanation was given as to how she somehow escaped the xBs when last we saw her, they had her and looked like they were about to kill her. What...they just let her go? Not to mention both her and brother sneaking in, around, and out of the cube easily without advanced Borg technology not noticing it.

    oh yeah, and once again, we have the JJ-meme of people on the ground somehow being able to see ships in space. God that needs to end so badly.

    SynthPicard? yeah no. The brain abnormality was just stupid to begin with. Yes, we get it. Picard is old. But once again, this is supposed to be a future near-utopia with super medical science. Wasting time on these ailments only to turn them in to red herrings is just stupid. I know it's not canon, but they've got a character in the books that was well into his 100s and still active duty. Despite all that talk about how Picard's new body isn't super in any way, you know damned well at some point they're going to have him do some synth antics HumanPicard couldn't do. They won't be able to resist it.

    The rest of the episode was just member berries.

    I remember reading somewhere that CBS was done with Kurtzman and were looking to replace him. Make it happen This whole JJ-style of writing that appears to be the fad needs to die and it can't happen soon enough. JJ and his wannabe clones have killed two beloved franchises now.

    I dunno why I didn't notice it before, but I guess it was the warp in of all the Romulan ships that made me realize it was the same warp in effect for Discovery which made me realize that aside from the uniforms and ship designs, there is no real sense that Discovery is over a hundred years in the past relative to Picard's era. It all looks like the same technology level.

    I feel like the only bright part about this show for me is the same as it was for Discovery. I like the characters (Saru in particular) it's just the stories themselves that are crap. Can't wait to see Harry Treadaway in Squadron 42

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  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Only one thing, @VoodooV , in regards to one part of your spoiler.
    I had to watch the episode where Seven takes over the Borg cube twice because my Dad wanted to watch it. When Romulan sister is attacked by the xBs, she gets transported while she's under attack. It's not done very well and not obvious, but she basically gets emergency transported and it is shown.

    I didn't really see it until the second viewing.

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  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    Now that you mentioned it, what the hell happened to all the
    ex-Borgs? They just disappeared. Are they still on the Cube? Is Seven just abandoning them? There are still hundreds of ex-Borgs who are now leaderless and need help. Seven is the best person to help them. But fuck them I guess, because adventuring with Picard is more important.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Now that you mentioned it, what the hell happened to all the
    ex-Borgs? They just disappeared. Are they still on the Cube? Is Seven just abandoning them? There are still hundreds of ex-Borgs who are now leaderless and need help. Seven is the best person to help them. But fuck them I guess, because adventuring with Picard is more important.
    They will adapt, I guess. :P

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  • hlprmnkyhlprmnky Registered User regular
    I liked a lot of the moments in the Picard finale, but I too struggle with lots of fridge logic questions.
    ”So what you’re telling me is that our CHIEF OF INTELLIGENCE for the last DECADE AND A HALF was a member in good standing of the ROMULAN SECRET POLICE!?”
    “Well, no, she was actually a member of a super-secret sect within the Tal’Shiar that we think was behi-“
    “THAT DOES NOT IMPROVE THE PICTURE, LIEUTENANT. If anyone needs me, I will be getting roaringly drunk, alone, in my residence.”
    “Yes, Madam President.”

    _
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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited March 27
    Before we watched the episode, I knew from how mad people were that
    It probably WOULD be reapers, and I was SO THERE for that shit. Especially since, as I've mentioned before, they are doing a, "we don't agree with the mass effect ending and want to re-write it" shtick. Loved all of that stuff. Jayzus, they even added an omni-tool!

    I would have preferred that Picard actually died instead of being robut Picard, but I also didn't super mind it. I love watching PatStew and this just gives me more chances for that.

    Also the brain thing, lest people forget, was already detected by Beverly Crusher back in the TNG days, so it's not like it's just something the new series came up with.

    Loooooooved me those Riker scenes, god DAMN. Loved the Picard speechifying. Loved the conflict being ended by words and not battle. That's Star Trek as shit, yo.

    Edit: Oh one more thing, I didn't predict that they were going to put Picard in the robut golem (The Greatest Generation dudes did, though), but since the first episode watching the opening theme, I was like, "are they trying to imply Picard is a robut? because these opening animations are making me think he's a robut."

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  • StrikorStrikor Calibrations? Calibrations! Registered User regular
    My eyes may be getting old but
    was the entire Federation fleet just copy/paste of the same 1 or 2 models? I love me some ship porn (especially Federation) but there just wasn't anything there. Where is that beautiful Galaxy model they used for all of 10 seconds in the first episode? Or Intrepid, Sovereign, Nebula, Akira, Steamrunner, Norway, Saber, Nova, Prometheus, with a few Defiants thrown in for good measure? I was actually sitting there trying to figure out if the ship clone trick they just pulled was immediately followed up by Riker doing a ship clone trick of his own. The Voyager finale had all sorts of different ship types at the end and there were only what, like 6 of them?

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  • PolarisPolaris I am powerless against the sky. Registered User regular
    Strikor wrote: »
    My eyes may be getting old but
    was the entire Federation fleet just copy/paste of the same 1 or 2 models? I love me some ship porn (especially Federation) but there just wasn't anything there. Where is that beautiful Galaxy model they used for all of 10 seconds in the first episode? Or Intrepid, Sovereign, Nebula, Akira, Steamrunner, Norway, Saber, Nova, Prometheus, with a few Defiants thrown in for good measure? I was actually sitting there trying to figure out if the ship clone trick they just pulled was immediately followed up by Riker doing a ship clone trick of his own. The Voyager finale had all sorts of different ship types at the end and there were only what, like 6 of them?
    You are correct, Capt Riker actually even mentioned this "I'm commanding the most badass Fed ship ever and I'm at the head of a fleet of them" I guess they went full copy paste after the Dominion War and Mars.

    Other Feelings About The End.
    I was a little disappointed, though it wasn't as bad as I'd feared, at least the "synths" decided that killing everything wasn't the right solution 'cos Picard Picarded them.. Didn't much care for the resurrection either but whatevz. Overall I like the season, lots of really good stuff, particularly in the middle stretch there

  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I had a hard time with
    Soji giving any sort of a damn about Picard's wellbeing while she is simultaneously trying to kill him along with all organic life.

    Commander Zoom
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    I suppose it's a logical progression...
    from artificial heart to artificial everything.

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  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    That ending really undermined the poignant scene
    Picard had with Data. They talk about death and the end. Data asks Picard if he regrets sacrificing his life and says that he doesn't regret sacrificing his life either. It was very philosophical and speaks to the impermanence of existence. The whole scene was about both of them accepting death and choosing to go on their own terms. They get one last chance to say goodbye to each other. Then they take Picard back and shove his mind in a golem, completely throwing the heavy themes they were just talking about into the trash.

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  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Before we watched the episode, I knew from how mad people were that
    It probably WOULD be reapers, and I was SO THERE for that shit. Especially since, as I've mentioned before, they are doing a, "we don't agree with the mass effect ending and want to re-write it" shtick. Loved all of that stuff. Jayzus, they even added an omni-tool!

    I would have preferred that Picard actually died instead of being robut Picard, but I also didn't super mind it. I love watching PatStew and this just gives me more chances for that.

    Also the brain thing, lest people forget, was already detected by Beverly Crusher back in the TNG days, so it's not like it's just something the new series came up with.

    Loooooooved me those Riker scenes, god DAMN. Loved the Picard speechifying. Loved the conflict being ended by words and not battle. That's Star Trek as shit, yo.

    Edit: Oh one more thing, I didn't predict that they were going to put Picard in the robut golem (The Greatest Generation dudes did, though), but since the first episode watching the opening theme, I was like, "are they trying to imply Picard is a robut? because these opening animations are making me think he's a robut."
    I feel like they changed the ending once they got season 2 so that Picard could live. I suppose it would leave the dangling plot thread of Data, but I think there are other ways to resolve that. Or it can just be left alone. It wouldn't be the only part of the season that was left more than a little under developed.

    On that note, why were the Borg involved in this story at all? I was a little annoyed at the Borg cube getting chumped at every turn but expected there would be a payoff for it eventually. It doesn't seem to have really gone anywhere though. I am hoping they would tie in at the end, but I dunno what they really brought to the table. Seems like you could cut them and lose nothing so hopefully season 2 does a lot with them.

    Picard giving amazing speeches still makes it all worth while. I knew it was going to be a great ride from the moment he decided to teach Data's children by example. It just grows from there with Picard going back to his peak form. Right down to the beautiful moment at the end where he trusts that his wayward crew member won't let him down. Straight out of TNG moment of unconditional trust and faith that those close to him will choose to do what is right.

    I was so afraid they would save these moments only for the end, but they built it up so beautifully in the end. Picard got back to his roots, and the show established why in-universe his word alone would not be enough. Without the Picard eats shit tour the weight of his ability to get anything done from TNG makes it too unbelievable. The show definitely builds on itself better than I thought it would at first in an interesting way. Not perfect, but a lot of my little issues resolved themselves well enough to entertain me.

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