Star Trek: Picard is out! Spoilers in effect!

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  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Watts is really good at portraying entities whose minds are very different from our own.

    I'm reminded of a short story I read from a while back about future humans encountering a sapient race that had extra unpleasant infanticide as a regular part of their life cycle. The characters are discussing amongst themselves that this can be fixed easily. They don't have to keep doing that, even though the race was inured to and accepting of it. It was part of who they were as a species.

    Then another more advanced race shows up that looks on us pretty much the same way. "We can fix everything wrong with you so that no one will ever suffer again." And the capability to go through with it, whether we wanted it or not.

    The author wrote two endings for the story. One was resistance, where the human race did what it could to escape and remain themselves.

    The other was, "- and then the aliens came and EVERYONE lived happily ever after."

    Naturally, there was a lot of division over which ending was preferred, and I found it amusing that people tried to argue one or the other was 'right.'

    Gabriel_Pitt : do you have a link per chance?

    I posted one earlier, here it is:

    https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/n5TqCuizyJDfAPjkr/the-baby-eating-aliens-1-8

    I just now read that for the first time.

    Y'know what's weird? The end goal of Christianity is a heaven where there will be no pain or sadness or shame, only perfect love and unity. That's ostensibly what Christians all hope for, and I guess that includes me still. And yet, when you stop and actually think through the implications, it's terrifying. Irrationally so, maybe, but still.

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Dang, Picard starts in less than two weeks.

    Please be good.

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  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Dang, Picard starts in less than two weeks.

    Please be good.

    In my heart Picard cannot fail, it can only be failed.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    What's the distribution on this going to be? CBS streaming in the US and on Netflix or something everywhere else?

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    daveNYC wrote: »
    What's the distribution on this going to be? CBS streaming in the US and on Netflix or something everywhere else?

    I think Amazon are getting it in the UK, which is annoying. I would have thought they could roll over whatever deal Discovery has but no why do that and make watching Star Trek easy when they can sell every new show to a different streaming system and piss me off?

    CambiatamrondeauPailryderGiantGeek2020
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    What's the distribution on this going to be? CBS streaming in the US and on Netflix or something everywhere else?

    I think Amazon are getting it in the UK, which is annoying. I would have thought they could roll over whatever deal Discovery has but no why do that and make watching Star Trek easy when they can sell every new show to a different streaming system and piss me off?

    Ugh, looks like Amazon is getting all the international streaming rights.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Looks like I'm buying a DVD, then.

    Discovery actually made it onto terrestrial TV here and is on E4 right now, I think, but I ain't waiting three years to see Picard.

  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    What's the distribution on this going to be? CBS streaming in the US and on Netflix or something everywhere else?

    I think Amazon are getting it in the UK, which is annoying. I would have thought they could roll over whatever deal Discovery has but no why do that and make watching Star Trek easy when they can sell every new show to a different streaming system and piss me off?

    Ugh, looks like Amazon is getting all the international streaming rights.

    That would be better than the status quo if it includes Canada. Cause Discovery wasn't available by streaming. You needed cable.

    Ended up watching it in Australia. This was easier...

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Canada is specifically excluded.
    Amazon Prime Video and CBS Studios International are making it so, striking an exclusive international agreement for the upcoming Star Trek series featuring Sir Patrick Stewart reprising his signature role as Jean-Luc Picard. Amazon Prime Video will be the exclusive streaming home of the new series in more than 200 countries and territories, outside of the U.S. and Canada, it was announced today in a joint statement by CBS Studios International and Amazon Prime Video. Under the multi-year agreement with CBS, each episode will be available on Amazon Prime Video within 24 hours of its U.S. premiere.

    Looks like it will be on the CTV Sci-Fi channel in the Great White North.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Canada is specifically excluded.
    Amazon Prime Video and CBS Studios International are making it so, striking an exclusive international agreement for the upcoming Star Trek series featuring Sir Patrick Stewart reprising his signature role as Jean-Luc Picard. Amazon Prime Video will be the exclusive streaming home of the new series in more than 200 countries and territories, outside of the U.S. and Canada, it was announced today in a joint statement by CBS Studios International and Amazon Prime Video. Under the multi-year agreement with CBS, each episode will be available on Amazon Prime Video within 24 hours of its U.S. premiere.

    Looks like it will be on the CTV Sci-Fi channel in the Great White North.

    Urg.

    shrykeAl_watZibblsnrt
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Somebody once dared envision a world that has (mostly) moved beyond greed and warmongering, where everyone is provided for and their needs are met; and the goal is no longer "how do I survive" but "how do flourish and become better than I was". They then took that vision and managed made a worldwide entertainment phenemena out of it.

    It gives me some small amount of solace that someone managed to sneak the ultimate socialist utopia onto the airwaves, and not only did they get away with it, but it became wildly popular.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    and they did it by being the Ferengi-est Ferengi who ever sought profit. :P

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  • RingoRingo HE KEEPS REPEATING THE LINE I'M GONNA CRY BLEASE LET HIM LIVE YOU MADE ME WATCH SO MUCH KISSING IN THIS FILM LET INIGO LIVERegistered User regular
    and they did it by being the Ferengi-est Ferengi who ever sought profit. :P

    Once the world was 100% assholes

    Then one asshole asked the question - what if we could do better?

    The world stayed 100% assholes, but eventually the impossible dream was realized

    And the world became 99% assholes

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
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  • hlprmnkyhlprmnky Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Watts is really good at portraying entities whose minds are very different from our own.

    I'm reminded of a short story I read from a while back about future humans encountering a sapient race that had extra unpleasant infanticide as a regular part of their life cycle. The characters are discussing amongst themselves that this can be fixed easily. They don't have to keep doing that, even though the race was inured to and accepting of it. It was part of who they were as a species.

    Then another more advanced race shows up that looks on us pretty much the same way. "We can fix everything wrong with you so that no one will ever suffer again." And the capability to go through with it, whether we wanted it or not.

    The author wrote two endings for the story. One was resistance, where the human race did what it could to escape and remain themselves.

    The other was, "- and then the aliens came and EVERYONE lived happily ever after."

    Naturally, there was a lot of division over which ending was preferred, and I found it amusing that people tried to argue one or the other was 'right.'

    Gabriel_Pitt : do you have a link per chance?

    I posted one earlier, here it is:

    https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/n5TqCuizyJDfAPjkr/the-baby-eating-aliens-1-8

    I too just read this for the first time off this link, and I guess I'm done figuring out why computers at work aren't computing right for today. My brain is 100% in that hazy, slightly-slowed state you might feel after a really good fireworks show, the smell of the cordite and the faint afterimages in your vision and the pleasant dullness of sound from the booming and just kind of walking back to your car with a goofy grin... good thing it's Friday, I guess.

    _
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  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    Ended up watching the DS9 documentary 'What we left behind' over the holidays. Really enjoyed it for most part. I really liked the interviews and behind the scene's stuff and really wish they had more of that. Nana Visitor seems like she's be fun to meet, has sort of an infectious positive energy to her.

    It just didn't really feel professional if that is the right word for it. Like them creating a new season as a frame wasn't interesting to me. They were just throwing ideas around and felt very fan fiction. And the fact that it's not going to happen, just felt like they could have used that time better. They had a scene where they created a check list but only showed it after 3 parts were done then quickly glossed over the last 2. It just weirdly broke up the tone from the first part to those next ones.

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  • StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    I'm really torn. I want to watch Picard right away, but the idea of paying for CBS All Access (which is otherwise utter garbage unless you're 60 years old and have already seen Discovery) for 3 months to catch all the episodes seems like a non-starter. Once it's bingeable, I'll drop 15 bucks and treat it like a one shot, but it's not too promising otherwise.

    RingoPailryder
  • Trajan45Trajan45 Registered User regular
    I'm really torn. I want to watch Picard right away, but the idea of paying for CBS All Access (which is otherwise utter garbage unless you're 60 years old and have already seen Discovery) for 3 months to catch all the episodes seems like a non-starter. Once it's bingeable, I'll drop 15 bucks and treat it like a one shot, but it's not too promising otherwise.

    Going to depend on early reviews for me. If they get back to the Star Trek I love, then I have no problem supporting them in making more. I'm nervous given how much action they keep showing though; so I'll see what folks say about the first couple episodes.

    Origin ID\ Steam ID: Warder45
  • MsAnthropyMsAnthropy Our Lady of Perpetual Mazes The CageRegistered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Dang, Picard starts in less than two weeks.

    Please be good.

    If you spend 14 hours a day, you can do a full rewatch of TNG in time!


    "The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
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  • MsAnthropyMsAnthropy Our Lady of Perpetual Mazes The CageRegistered User regular
    edited January 11
    wandering wrote: »

    This is like the best example ever of moving past a name/pronoun slip:
    Kor wrote:
    Curzon, my beloved old friend!
    Dax wrote:
    I'm Jadzia now.
    Kor wrote:
    Well, Jadzia, my beloved old friend.

    MsAnthropy on
    "The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    I'm a fucking idiot because the obvious transgender subtext with the Trill has literally never occurred to me until this moment.

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    Population: Me

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  • MsAnthropyMsAnthropy Our Lady of Perpetual Mazes The CageRegistered User regular
    I'm a fucking idiot because the obvious transgender subtext with the Trill has literally never occurred to me until this moment.

    Welcome to Dumbassville
    Population: Me

    TBF it never occurred to the writers either.

    "The only real politics I knew was that if a guy liked Hitler, I’d beat the stuffing out of him and that would be it." -- Jack Kirby
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  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    I'm a fucking idiot because the obvious transgender subtext with the Trill has literally never occurred to me until this moment.

    Welcome to Dumbassville
    Population: Me

    TBF it never occurred to the writers either.

    It would have been interesting if Ezri had been a man, imho. But I never liked her much. I thought the justification for her being on DS9 in the first place was flimsy, and the whole do-over romance with Bashir was a little weird.

    The comparison to transgender people is interesting (to me, a cis person :razz: ) because it's very important to a lot of trans people, in my limited experience, that you understand that they have always been who they are. With the Trill, joining with a symbiont means literally becoming someone new - a unique amalgamation of the newly joined Trill, all of the symbiont's past hosts, and the symbiont themselves.

    Looking at it one way, the individual the host used to be is gone; but looking at it another way, they get a kind of immortality. For as long as the symbiont lives, anyway.

    Sort of like what the Borg do, imho, except with the Trill it's consensual (and under normal circumstances, you have to demonstrate that you're psychologically healthy and serious about wanting to be joined).

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    I can never hate Ezri because she was sooooo cuuuuuuute.

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  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Oh yeah, I definitely had a crush on both Jadzia and Ezri. But even back then, I felt they made Ezri too similar to Jadzia at least on the surface (attractive female with dark hair) and thought they should have taken the opportunity for it to be someone completely different, even a male. But I also remember thinking it was dumb they killed off Jadzia in the first place with only one season to go and a far better death would have been in that episode where she's on that mission with Worf where she was near death anyway.

    Then it wasn't till years later we find out that Rick Berman was misogynistic towards her

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  • MsAnthropyMsAnthropy Our Lady of Perpetual Mazes The CageRegistered User regular
    edited January 11
    Calica wrote: »
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    I'm a fucking idiot because the obvious transgender subtext with the Trill has literally never occurred to me until this moment.

    Welcome to Dumbassville
    Population: Me

    TBF it never occurred to the writers either.

    It would have been interesting if Ezri had been a man, imho. But I never liked her much. I thought the justification for her being on DS9 in the first place was flimsy, and the whole do-over romance with Bashir was a little weird.

    The comparison to transgender people is interesting (to me, a cis person :razz: ) because it's very important to a lot of trans people, in my limited experience, that you understand that they have always been who they are. With the Trill, joining with a symbiont means literally becoming someone new - a unique amalgamation of the newly joined Trill, all of the symbiont's past hosts, and the symbiont themselves.

    Looking at it one way, the individual the host used to be is gone; but looking at it another way, they get a kind of immortality. For as long as the symbiont lives, anyway.

    Sort of like what the Borg do, imho, except with the Trill it's consensual (and under normal circumstances, you have to demonstrate that you're psychologically healthy and serious about wanting to be joined).

    As a trans person in the thread, I think it’s important for me to point out that different people experience their gender identities in different ways. Some people know with clarity from an early age, but other people don’t know until later in life. Lots of people also go through long periods of *not* knowing with 100% certainty, and experiment to figure themselves out. All of those are completely valid trans experiences. In fact, the idea that there is a ‘single’ trans narrative is a big reason why so many people have difficulty linking it to their personal experiences.

    I will also say on a personal level, though, that while I feel my gender identity was always there (whether or not I had the words to put it into context) that I am *not* the same person I was before transitioning. My memories are certainly part of me, but transition has made me a stronger, braver, happier, more driven, and sociable person. My old memories often do feel like someone else’s, distant and hazy.

    MsAnthropy on
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  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    MsAnthropy wrote: »
    I'm a fucking idiot because the obvious transgender subtext with the Trill has literally never occurred to me until this moment.

    Welcome to Dumbassville
    Population: Me

    TBF it never occurred to the writers either.

    It would have been interesting if Ezri had been a man, imho. But I never liked her much. I thought the justification for her being on DS9 in the first place was flimsy, and the whole do-over romance with Bashir was a little weird.

    The comparison to transgender people is interesting (to me, a cis person :razz: ) because it's very important to a lot of trans people, in my limited experience, that you understand that they have always been who they are. With the Trill, joining with a symbiont means literally becoming someone new - a unique amalgamation of the newly joined Trill, all of the symbiont's past hosts, and the symbiont themselves.

    Looking at it one way, the individual the host used to be is gone; but looking at it another way, they get a kind of immortality. For as long as the symbiont lives, anyway.

    Sort of like what the Borg do, imho, except with the Trill it's consensual (and under normal circumstances, you have to demonstrate that you're psychologically healthy and serious about wanting to be joined).

    As a trans person in the thread, I think it’s important for me to point out that different people experience their gender identities in different ways. Some people know with clarity from an early age, but other people don’t know until later in life. Lots of people also go through long periods of *not* knowing with 100% certainty, and experiment to figure themselves out. All of those are completely valid trans experiences. In fact, the idea that there is a ‘single’ trans narrative is a big reason why so many people have difficulty linking it to their personal experiences.

    I will also say on a personal level, though, that while I feel my gender identity was always there (whether or not I had the words to put it into context) that I am *not* the same person I was before transitioning. My memories are certainly part of me, but transition has made me a stronger, braver, happier, more driven, and sociable person. My old memories often do feel like someone else’s, distant and hazy.

    As someone who is cis and has had a few close friends transition over the time I've known them, I find Sisko's relationship with Dax pretty relatable (with the obvious glaring difference that I would never affectionately misgender my friends, but then Trill don't generally live in a world where a depressing number of people with power over them legitimately refuse to recognize their identities). It's interesting seeing all the ways in which their personalities change with their gender presentation and yet all the ways in which the qualities they're expressing have always been a part of them. I often feel like I can see the "Dax" aspects of them that were always a part of the friend I've known as well as the "Jadzia" aspects of them that they've developed since transitioning or were always there but they were afraid to show me. I think a lot of the difference comes from them simply feeling comfortable expressing parts of themselves that they never really could before, and in many ways this is like being a new person; it totally changes the way they interact with the world and vice versa.

    That said, as with all things in Star Trek it's not really meant to be a direct correlate to any one thing in the modern world, but it speaks to identity broadly. Many aspects of the Trill and Dax's experience correlate to being transgender, but many simply to anyone who goes through something that causes them to see themselves as a different person than they were in the past (which we can all relate to on some level). Just like the Bajorans during the Cardassian occupation are not any more the Jews during the holocaust than they are the Palestinians today; because their experience is not a direct correlate it allows us to see the commonalities between these things and broaden our basis to empathize.

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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    Calling Jadzia "Old man" felt very much like any normal nickname than a simple (mis)gendered pronoun. And honestly, I think the ST universe is quite comfortable in saying that if Jadzia ever had an issue with it, she'd have said something long ago and it would have stopped. Otherwise Sisko is the only person who ever says it to her, and she always took it as a term of endearment. It's even the phrase that grounds Ezri and calms her down when she's having her little intro existential crisis.

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  • wanderingwandering Registered User regular
    From an out-of-universe perspective I think the “old man” nickname was there to help remind the audience what the trills’ deal is

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  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited January 14
    Makes you wonder if Riker's ever knocked on wood.

    Thirith on
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  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    Thirith wrote: »
    Makes you wonder if Riker's ever knocked on wood.

    I'm sure he at least knows someone who has.

    (Or on faux wood paneling. It's the Enterprise-D.)

    ThirithBlackDragon480ExtreaminatusPailryderRingo
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    If you're in London today, don't let this confuse you.
    sqmimrfs549x.jpg

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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  • Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    If you're in London today, don't let this confuse you.

    Wow, I know where i'm going after work.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Pailryder wrote: »

    This makes me leery of the series personally. But we'll see how far they take it.

    grumblethorn
  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited January 15
    so has nobody talked about the Star Trek Picard Short Treks episode or what?!

    It was interesting!

    Hardtarget on
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  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    People are complaining on Reddit that the Picard federation doesn't look all bright and cheery like exactly and only season 1 of tng and I question if they've watched ds9 or the movies set after it. I'd honestly be surprised if the federation wasn't on or recovering from the brink of the disaster of it's last few years

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    The Federation becoming isolationist kinda sucks to me given the state of the galaxy by the end of TNG/DS9/VOY.

    The Federation has just won a war with the Klingons and Romulans as their allies
    The Klingons are now run by Martok, brother of Worf and friend of the Federation. Worf is even Federation ambassador.
    The Romulans just had their corrupt Senate executed and then lost their homeworld, putting them in a similar situation to the Klingons in Star Trek 6.
    The Obsidian Order and Cardassian military have been destroyed, leading the way for a civilian government.
    The Dominion have been defeated and Odo is introducing them to the possibility of living alongside solids peacefully.
    The Borg have been neutered.
    The Ferangi are embracing regulation and other progressive ideas.

    Like, this is the perfect time for the Federation to doing the most outreach they have ever done in thier existence.

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    The Federation becoming isolationist kinda sucks to me given the state of the galaxy by the end of TNG/DS9/VOY.

    The Federation has just won a war with the Klingons and Romulans as their allies
    The Klingons are now run by Martok, brother of Worf and friend of the Federation. Worf is even Federation ambassador.
    The Romulans just had their corrupt Senate executed and then lost their homeworld, putting them in a similar situation to the Klingons in Star Trek 6.
    The Obsidian Order and Cardassian military have been destroyed, leading the way for a civilian government.
    The Dominion have been defeated and Odo is introducing them to the possibility of living alongside solids peacefully.
    The Borg have been neutered.
    The Ferangi are embracing regulation and other progressive ideas.

    Like, this is the perfect time for the Federation to doing the most outreach they have ever done in thier existence.

    From my own experience, I saw the Berlin Wall fall, the USSR dissolve, and China become more open to the West. Seemed like everything was going to go great!

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