The [Impeachment] Trial of the 45th President of the United States Begins 2020/01/21

monikermoniker Registered User regular
edited January 21 in Debate and/or Discourse
a55cku7ldezh.jpg



The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

—Article I, Section II, Clause V
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

—Article I, Section III, Clauses VI and VII



And so it begins



Transcript:
Good afternoon. Last Tuesday, we observed the anniversary of the adoption of the Constitution on September 17.

Sadly, on that day, the Intelligence Community Inspector General formally notified the Congress that the Administration was forbidding him from turning over a whistleblower complaint. On Constitution Day. This is a violation of law.

Shortly thereafter, press reports began to break of a phone call by the President of the United States calling upon a foreign power to intervene in his election. This is a breach of his constitutional responsibilities.

The facts are these: the Intelligence Community Inspector General, who was appointed by President Trump, determined that the complaint is both of ‘urgent concern and credible,’ and its disclosure, he went on to say, that it ‘relates to one of the most significant and important of the Director of National Intelligence’s responsibilities to the American people.’

On Thursday, the Inspector General testified before the House Intelligence Committee, stating that the Acting Director of National Intelligence blocked him from disclosing the whistleblower complaint. This is a violation of the law.

The law is unequivocal. The DNI, it says, the Director of National Intelligence ‘shall’ provide Congress the full whistleblower complaint.

For more than 25 years, I have served on the Intelligence Committee – as a Member, as the Ranking Member, as part of the Gang of 4 even before I was in the Leadership.

I was there when we created the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. That did not exist before 2004.

I was there ever earlier in 90’s when we wrote the whistleblower laws and continue to write them, to improve them to ensure the security of our intelligence and the safety of our whistleblowers.

I know what their purpose was, and we proceeded with balance and caution as we wrote the laws. I can say with authority, that the Trump Administration’s actions undermine both: our national security and our intelligence and our protections of whistleblowers – more than both.

This Thursday, the Acting DNI will appear before the House Intelligence Committee.

At that time, he must turn over the whistleblower’s full complaint to the Committee. He will have to choose whether to break the law or honor his responsibility to the Constitution.

On the final day of the Constitutional Convention in 1787, when our Constitution was adopted, Americans gathered on the steps of Independence Hall to await the news of the government our Founders had crafted.

They asked Benjamin Franklin, ‘What do we have: a republic or a monarchy?’ Franklin replied: ‘A republic, if you can keep it.’

Our responsibility is to keep it.

Our republic endures because of the wisdom of our Constitution, enshrined in three co-equal branches of government, serving as checks and balances on each other.

The actions taken to date by the President have seriously violated the Constitution – especially when the President says, ‘Article II says, I can do whatever I want.’

For the past several months, we have been investigating in our Committees and litigating in the courts, so the House can gather ‘all the relevant facts and consider whether to exercise its full Article I powers, including a constitutional power of the utmost gravity — approval of articles of impeachment.’

And this week, the President has admitted to asking the President of Ukraine to take actions which would benefit him politically. The action of – the actions of the Trump Presidency revealed the dishonorable fact of the President’s betrayal of his oath of office, betrayal of our national security, and betrayal of the integrity of our elections.

Therefore, today, I am announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry. I am directing our six Committees to proceed with their investigations under that umbrella of impeachment inquiry.

The President must be held accountable. No one is above the law.

Getting back to our Founders – in the darkest days of the American Revolution, Thomas Paine wrote: ‘The times have found us.’ The times found them to fight for and establish our democracy. The times have found us today, not to place ourselves in the same category of greatness as our Founders, but to place us in the urgency of protecting and defending our Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. In the words of Ben Franklin, to keep our Republic.

I thank our Chairmen – Chairman Nadler, Chairman Schiff. Chairman Nadler of Judiciary. Chairman Schiff of Intelligence. Chairman Engel of Foreign Affairs. Chairman Cummings of Oversight and Chairman Cummings I have been in touch with constantly. He is a master of so much but including, Inspectors General and whistleblowers. Congressman Richie Neal of the Ways and Means Committee. Congresswomen Maxine Waters of the Financial Services Committee.

And I commend all of our Members, our colleagues for their thoughtful, thoughtful approach to all of this – for their careful statements.

God bless them and God Bless America. Thank you all

Source: https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/92419-0

Full Video:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?464684-1/speaker-pelosi-announces-formal-impeachment-inquiry-president-trump


Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller III

Report on the Investigation into Russian Interference in the 2016 Presidential Election
[PDF]


Washington Post

Full Timeline of the President's interactions with Ukraine


House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
Whistleblower Report

Fact Sheet released by Speaker Pelosi (D CA-12)

https://www.speaker.gov/sites/speaker.house.gov/files/Trump Shakedown and Coverup.pdf



Surfpossum wrote: »
I just spent far too much time writing up a facebook post to try and provide a sort of high-level, citation-filled rundown of The Ukraine Call since I haven't seen anything laying it out in a simple manner so I figured I'd post it here, too.
The Misuse of Presidential Power to Solicit Foreign Interference in Our Election

“In the course of my official duties, I have received information from multiple U.S. Government officials that the President of the United States is using the power of his office to solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election. This interference includes, among other things, pressuring a foreign country to investigate one of the President's main domestic political rivals.” 1


The money: the US was planning to send several hundred million dollars to Ukraine to help them purchase military hardware.

This aid package (announced in June of 2019) was contingent on Ukraine’s efforts to combat corruption, and the Pentagon sent a letter to Congress in which they "certified that the Government of Ukraine has taken substantial actions to make defense institutional reforms for the purposes of decreasing corruption [and] increasing accountability." 2


The setup: in June, the White House suddenly blocked the aid package without explanation.

In July, “Administration officials were instructed to tell lawmakers that the delays were part of an “interagency process” but to give them no additional information — a pattern that continued for nearly two months, until the White House released the funds on the night of Sept. 11.” 3


The shakedown: this was followed by a phone call in July between Trump and the Ukrainian President in which the Ukrainian President brought up wanting to purchase military hardware and Trump’s response was to ask for some “favors.”

From the official “reconstructed transcript” created from notes on the phone call, we can see that Trump’s response to the Ukrainian President’s comment about the financial aid they are expecting to receive is to request some investigations:

“President Zelenskyy: We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.
The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike… I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it.
[here the Ukrainian President, Zelenskyy, assures Trump that they are “great friends” and that “all the investigations will be done openly and candidly”]
The President: The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great.” 4


The crime: the use of the US government’s money to pressure a foreign government into manufacturing an investigation to hurt a political rival in the upcoming election is an abuse of power.

Even setting aside the use of the US government’s resources to extort assistance, “It is illegal for any person to solicit, accept, or receive anything of value from a foreign national in connection with a U.S. election.” 5


The cover-up: realizing the seriousness of what just happened, the White House attempted to hide the transcript of the phone call on a server used for classified national security info.

“White House lawyers directed White House officials to remove the electronic transcript of the Zelensky call from the computer system where such transcripts normally are stored. That transcript then was loaded into a “separate electronic system” that is otherwise used to store and handle classified information of an especially sensitive nature. “One White House official described this act as an abuse of this electronic system because the call did not contain anything remotely sensitive from a national security perspective.”” 6

The whistleblower elaborates on what that server is usually for: “According to multiple White House officials I spoke with, the transcript of the President's call with President Zelenskyy was placed into a computer system managed directly by the National Security Council (NSC) Directorate for Intelligence Programs. This is a standalone computer system reserved for codeword-level intelligence information, such as covert action.” 1


The conclusion:

“I am deeply concerned that the actions described below constitute “a serious or flagrant problem, abuse, or violation of law or Executive Order” [...] I am also concerned that these actions pose risks to U.S. national security and undermine the U.S. Government's efforts to deter and counter foreign interference in U.S. elections.” 1

Sources:
  1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/read-the-whistleblower-complaint-regarding-president-trump-s-communications-with-ukrainian-president-volodymyr-zelensky/4b9e0ca5-3824-467f-b1a3-77f2d4ee16aa/?fbclid=IwAR0oj1nxRlu_PNQmeakdyEb-WwWgrLKXWPtyBUCTPDGcYab1f7WYdjRwocc
  2. https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/764453663/pentagon-letter-undercuts-trump-assertion-on-delaying-aid-to-ukraine-over-corrup?fbclid=IwAR2MxuFi7LICAqM9rj7G6RaE2l_JFZ_dF3HiWoTT1W4l1j05CF3ZILIKWA4
  3. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-ordered-hold-on-military-aid-days-before-calling-ukrainian-president-officials-say/2019/09/23/df93a6ca-de38-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html?fbclid=IwAR1QyVOTWyGYcMqN_ojzqUsGXPZeVUJ-dYefgbE8GS2hjdzyLK-iAy78ToY
  4. https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2tLXsD_2tSOnqMvNpXvIoFevBjuqCCGnQjO4r224923u54fwO9V_RyeCA
  5. https://mobile.twitter.com/EllenLWeintraub/status/1139309394968096768?fbclid=IwAR3Q1xwX-qk6TbgJan_dj4d15B_RmHlzh2YEPxEpKQLfXHfPjWvU5hLvwpk
  6. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/26/biggest-bombshells-in-trump-whistleblower-complaint-cover-up.html?fbclid=IwAR1Axs0UcMTe9Ul9yeEcPddGY1DoOW-gSb5afE_sns9L8--QxWs1qq8oRxM

Suggestions and/or corrections are welcome



*************
The OP will be continually updated as information becomes available, and I have time to add to it.

moniker on
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Posts

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Resources to follow Congressional actions:

    House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence summary and highlights:
    https://intelligence.house.gov/defendourdemocracy/

    C-SPAN:
    https://www.c-span.org/impeachment/

    NPR:
    https://www.npr.org/tags/216163255/impeachment

    PBS Livestream:
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-live-the-trump-impeachment-hearings-day-5

    Supposedly lots of back and forth, lots of procedure, 6 hours of debate between both sides, the actual vote is estimated to show up around 6-8pm EST.

    Republicans already voted to adjurn.

    Wapo Stream:


    CBS Stream:


    NBC Stream:


    Don't see a Cspan youtube, but here's a direct link: https://www.c-span.org/video/?467441-1/us-house-debates-articles-impeachment&live

    moniker on
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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    List of the 7 House Floor Managers:

    Adam Schiff D-CA
    Jerry Nadler D-NY
    Hakeem Jeffries D-NY
    Zoe Lofgren D-CA
    Val Demmings D-FL
    Jason Crow D-CO
    Sylvia Garcia D-TX

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    Articles of Impeachment:
    https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/democrats.judiciary.house.gov/files/documents/Articles of Impeachment.pdf

    House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Report:
    https://www.npr.org/2019/12/03/782759563/read-impeachment-inquiry-report-by-house-intelligence-committee

    Judiciary Committee Report:
    https://www.npr.org/2019/12/16/788383947/read-the-house-judiciary-committees-trump-impeachment-report

    GAO Decision B-331564 | Withholding of Ukraine Security Assistance:
    https://www.gao.gov/mobile/products/B-331564
    Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law. OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA.


    Relevant Statutes:

    2 U.S. Code § 192. Refusal of witness to testify or produce papers - This federal Subpoena law says that people summoned by congress must appear. Trump has not been subpoenaed, but has commanded his staff to ignore lawful subpoenas

    2 U.S. Code § 684. Proposed deferrals of budget authority - This federal Impoundment law says that the President can only defer Congressional spending for special contingencies or cost savings, and that he must inform Congress before he does so

    15 U.S. Code § 78dd–2. Prohibited foreign trade practices by domestic concerns - This federal Corruption law makes it unlawful for a US citizen to give anything of value to a foreign official for the purpose of securing improper advantage.

    18 U.S. Code § 201. Bribery of public officials and witnesses - This federal Bribery law makes it unlawful for a public official to seek anything of value personally in return for being influenced in the performance of an official act

    18 U.S. Code § 610. Coercion of political activity - This federal Coercion law makes it unlawful to command a federal government employee to engage in political activity

    18 U.S. Code § 1343. Fraud by wire, radio, or television - This federal Fraud law makes it unlawful for a person to deprive another of honest services. (corrupt public officials are convicted of defrauding the public under this law)

    52 U.S. Code § 30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals - This federal Campaign Finance law makes it unlawful for a person to solicit anything of value from a foreign national in connection with an election

    https://www.justsecurity.org/67738/federal-criminal-offenses-and-the-impeachment-of-donald-j-trump/

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  • madparrotmadparrot Registered User regular
    Unsurprisingly, Ted Cruz continues to lovingly bend over for the man who called his wife ugly and literally accused his father of assassinating JFK, pushing the Ukraine meddling conspiracy. Chuck Todd was having none of it though

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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    madparrot wrote: »
    Unsurprisingly, Ted Cruz continues to lovingly bend over for the man who called his wife ugly and literally accused his father of assassinating JFK, pushing the Ukraine meddling conspiracy. Chuck Todd was having none of it though

    It never ceases to amaze me how much Republicans will debase themselves to defend Trump, especially when he directly insults them and their loved ones.

    RaijuCantidoCelestialBadgerFencingsaxAistanElldrenHellerbooyUndead ScottsmanMartini_PhilosopherSpoitElvenshaemonikerN1tSt4lkerMild ConfusionSorceMillMan in the MistsBrainleechDuke 2.0valhalla130KetarZilla360MorganVEmerlmaster999Johnny ChopsockyErin The RedZonugalBullheadLegacyToxNothingStabbity StyleDesktop HippieQuidBucketmanArdolA Kobold's KoboldMegaMekNobeardTNTrooperCentipede DamascusRickRudeMvrckLord_AsmodeusNiryaButtersDee KaeMatevCantideemp123Green
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    madparrot wrote: »
    Unsurprisingly, Ted Cruz continues to lovingly bend over for the man who called his wife ugly and literally accused his father of assassinating JFK, pushing the Ukraine meddling conspiracy. Chuck Todd was having none of it though

    It never ceases to amaze me how much Republicans will debase themselves to defend Trump, especially when he directly insults them and their loved ones.

    He controls their base, and thus has them over the proverbial barrel.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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  • ChillyWillyChillyWilly Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Going to be a busy month, folks.

    IG report out tomorrow, which will likely knock down what most of us already know: That the Trump campaign was being watched with good reason and with proper evidence. Not really impeachment related, but still a big deal.

    What *is* impeachment related, though: We also have the SCOTUS possibly deciding on whether the House committees can get Trump's financials (which would also include his children and pretty much all Trump related businesses).

    https://federalnewsnetwork.com/government-news/2019/12/trump-asks-supreme-court-to-shield-banking-records-for-now/
    The Supreme Court on Friday temporarily shielded the bank records of President Donald Trump and three of his children from House Democrats.

    In an order signed by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the House cannot enforce subpoenas issued to Deutsche Bank and Capital One at least until Dec. 13.

    The justices are scheduled to discuss at least one and maybe two other similar cases at their private conference that day. One concerns a subpoena from the House for Trump’s financial records and the other is a demand from the Manhattan district attorney for his tax returns.

    The court already has blocked the House from getting the financial records while it considers what to do with the cases. The district attorney has agreed to hold off enforcing his subpoena until the justices act. A decision on whether to hear the cases could come by mid-December.

    ...

    Without a Supreme Court order, the banks would have had to begin turning over records to House committees next week.

    I feel like the theory that this is why the Dems have been ok with drawing things, not going to the mattresses on subpoenas, etc. is correct - It's because the financial info is what they feel they *really* need to nail Trump to the wall.

    All this stuff with Ukraine dropped into their laps, but the Dems have been working towards Trump's financials since before the call was known about or even took place. It's icing on the multi-tiered legal cake they're constructing.

    I've posted a Twitter thread from this guy before and while I definitely don't agree with his ultimate conclusion about Trump's fate, (that he's going to quit or commit suicide) his analysis about how the Dems have been working to get Trump's financials has been spot on.

    I leave you with these thread to help build your optimism. The Dem leadership is smarter than Trump and they're playing the long game. Stay focused and don't fall into doomsaying. Not just because it's against the rules of the thread, but because it poo poos the work that has been done, is being done, and will continue to be done. We *are* going to win in the end. Just wait.



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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    madparrot wrote: »
    Unsurprisingly, Ted Cruz continues to lovingly bend over for the man who called his wife ugly and literally accused his father of assassinating JFK, pushing the Ukraine meddling conspiracy. Chuck Todd was having none of it though

    It never ceases to amaze me how much Republicans will debase themselves to defend Trump, especially when he directly insults them and their loved ones.

    I think it's what prompted McCain to vote to save the ACA. I don't think he cared very much about healthcare reform. I do think he cared that Trump insulted his service and by extension the service of other veterans and prisoners of war.

    But he had nothing to lose by then because he knew he had less than a year to live.

    CelestialBadger on
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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Going to be a busy month, folks.

    IG report out tomorrow, which will likely knock down what most of us already know: That the Trump campaign was being watched with good reason and with proper evidence. Not really impeachment related, but still a big deal.

    What *is* impeachment related, though: We also have the SCOTUS possibly deciding on whether the House committees can get Trump's financials (which would also include his children and pretty much all Trump related businesses).

    https://federalnewsnetwork.com/government-news/2019/12/trump-asks-supreme-court-to-shield-banking-records-for-now/
    The Supreme Court on Friday temporarily shielded the bank records of President Donald Trump and three of his children from House Democrats.

    In an order signed by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the House cannot enforce subpoenas issued to Deutsche Bank and Capital One at least until Dec. 13.

    The justices are scheduled to discuss at least one and maybe two other similar cases at their private conference that day. One concerns a subpoena from the House for Trump’s financial records and the other is a demand from the Manhattan district attorney for his tax returns.

    The court already has blocked the House from getting the financial records while it considers what to do with the cases. The district attorney has agreed to hold off enforcing his subpoena until the justices act. A decision on whether to hear the cases could come by mid-December.

    ...

    Without a Supreme Court order, the banks would have had to begin turning over records to House committees next week.

    I feel like the theory that this is why the Dems have been ok with drawing things, not going to the mattresses on subpoenas, etc. is correct - It's because the financial info is what they feel they *really* need to nail Trump to the wall.

    All this stuff with Ukraine dropped into their laps, but the Dems have been working towards Trump's financials since before the call was known about or even took place. It's icing on the multi-tiered legal cake they're constructing.

    I've posted a Twitter thread from this guy before and while I definitely don't agree with his ultimate conclusion about Trump's fate, (that he's going to quit or commit suicide) his analysis about how the Dems have been working to get Trump's financials has been spot on.

    I leave you with these thread to help build your optimism. The Dem leadership is smarter than Trump and they're playing the long game. Stay focused and don't fall into doomsaying. Not just because it's against the rules of the thread, but because it poo poos the work that has been done, is being done, and will continue to be done. We *are* going to win in the end. Just wait.




    Yeah, it actually makes a fair bit of sense to make sure there isn't a huge avoidable backlog before the financials stuff or have other subpoena related cases possibly holding up a ruling on getting the financial information. Once they get that, it's probably game over for Trump. I also wouldn't be surprised if a number of democrats figure that a positive ruling on their subpoena for Trump and his children's financial records, likely also results in them enforcing other subpoenas because such a ruling could make clear to people that Congress has power to investigate and the court isn't going to let people sabotage it by refusing to let Congress enforce it's subpoenas. AKA not really worth fighting the morons on those subpoenas, when you potentially already have a case on the way that will ensure the morons auto-lose.

    Raiju
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    madparrot wrote: »
    Unsurprisingly, Ted Cruz continues to lovingly bend over for the man who called his wife ugly and literally accused his father of assassinating JFK, pushing the Ukraine meddling conspiracy. Chuck Todd was having none of it though

    It never ceases to amaze me how much Republicans will debase themselves to defend Trump, especially when he directly insults them and their loved ones.

    He controls their base, and thus has them over the proverbial barrel.

    In the case of Ted Cruz it's more a case of him being a political weather vane with no real values.

    Like, dude would happily claim to be a life long practioner of voodoo if he thought a chunk of the electorate was interested in Santeria.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    Atomikavalhalla130HappylilElfFencingsaxZilla360DouglasDangerMidnitemysticjuicerErin The RedshrykeZonugalspool32LegacyToxCelestialBadgerCantidoMartini_PhilosopherStabbity StyleBucketmanMan in the MistsArdolA Kobold's KoboldTicaldfjamNobeardMoridin889override367Lord_AsmodeusNiryaMr RayMatev
  • KPCKPC Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    madparrot wrote: »
    Unsurprisingly, Ted Cruz continues to lovingly bend over for the man who called his wife ugly and literally accused his father of assassinating JFK, pushing the Ukraine meddling conspiracy. Chuck Todd was having none of it though

    It never ceases to amaze me how much Republicans will debase themselves to defend Trump, especially when he directly insults them and their loved ones.

    I think it's what prompted McCain to vote to save the ACA. I don't think he cared very much about healthcare reform. I do think he cared that Trump insulted his service and by extension the service of other veterans and prisoners of war.

    But he had nothing to lose by then because he knew he had less than a year to live.

    It’s sad that the only way almost all Republicans will stand up to Trump is if they are literally dying.

    valhalla130FencingsaxJaysonFourZilla360MorganVEmerlmaster999ElvenshaeErin The RedMild ConfusionAbsoluteZeromonikerRaijuZonugalBullheadToxMillCantidoMartini_PhilosopherStabbity StylebrynhrtmnBucketmanMan in the MistskimeA Kobold's KoboldMaijinamuroElldrenMoridin889RickRudeoverride367Lord_AsmodeusNiryaButtersKlytusMagellMr RayHacksawMatevCantideTransporteremp123Evermourn
  • AtomikaAtomika The Trepidatious Adventures of Gerardo the Wizard Registered User regular
    KPC wrote: »
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    madparrot wrote: »
    Unsurprisingly, Ted Cruz continues to lovingly bend over for the man who called his wife ugly and literally accused his father of assassinating JFK, pushing the Ukraine meddling conspiracy. Chuck Todd was having none of it though

    It never ceases to amaze me how much Republicans will debase themselves to defend Trump, especially when he directly insults them and their loved ones.

    I think it's what prompted McCain to vote to save the ACA. I don't think he cared very much about healthcare reform. I do think he cared that Trump insulted his service and by extension the service of other veterans and prisoners of war.

    But he had nothing to lose by then because he knew he had less than a year to live.

    It’s sad that the only way almost all Republicans will stand up to Trump is if they are literally dying.

    There’s lots of Republicans that have come out against him, but almost none that are actively serving in office. Honestly the list of former GOP office holders that have publicly gone against him is as long as my arm. However, cowardice seems to be a requisite of elected membership.

    Zilla360MorganVElvenshaeMidniteMild ConfusionSorceshrykeRaijuBullheadspool32NetscapeToxCantidoMartini_PhilosopherStabbity StyleQuidBucketmanMan in the Mistskimenever dieElldrenNobeardSkeithoverride367Lord_AsmodeusMagellMr RaysarukunKnuckle DraggerN1tSt4lkerAegeriMatevCantidevalhalla130Evermourn
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Lawyer dog:


    How the heck did impeachment "devolve into" that instead of being that from the get go because of one party?

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  • SorceSorce Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Because the Rs said that they'd impeach if there was evidence. But then they started the goalpost moving parade and the press is slow to call them on it.

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  • AtomikaAtomika The Trepidatious Adventures of Gerardo the Wizard Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Lawyer dog:
    https://twitter.com/ /status/1203879140514058242

    How the heck did impeachment "devolve into" that instead of being that from the get go because of one party?

    Person 1: “Holy shit, you set my house on fire! I’m calling the cops!”

    Person 2: “I’ll fucking kill you!”

    The Media: “Another shameful example of partisan politics,”

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  • DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist rugged, weathered Registered User regular
    Murc's law: The media can no more hold Republicans accountable for their actions than you can hold a cat accountable for batting at a string. Only the Democrats have any agency in our national dialogue.

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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Anyone watching the hearing this morning?


    This morning the House Judiciary Committee will hold their second round of public hearings in preparation for Impeachment proceedings against President Donald Trump. Today’s hearing follow’s last week’s statement from Speaker Nancy Pelosi, requesting that House Committee Chairmen proceed with Articles of Impeachment and will receive presentations of evidence from counsel to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the House Judiciary Committee

    In preparation, this weekend Chairman Jerry Nadler released a report entitled Constitutional Grounds for Presidential Impeachment

    Today’s hearing will call Majority and Minority Counsel for both the House Judiciary Committee and House Intelligence Committee as witnesses, to provide presentations of evidence.

    Democrats call:
    Barry Berke, Majority Counsel, House Judiciary Committee
    Daniel Goldman, Majority Counsel, House Intelligence Committee

    Republicans call:
    Steve Castor, Minority Counsel, House Judiciary Committee, House Intelligence Committee

    Some audience member just did a big outburst for a minute and was escorted out.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    edited December 2019
    I don't know if I can take much more of this.

    Edit: Ranking member talking about Schiff not being there (which is kind of a negative IMO), and how there are no fact witnesses in the Judiciary. Which, again, you earlier disparaged the fact witnesses!

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Barry Berk?

  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    So since neither the DOJ IG nor Barr's handpicked investigator could find anything wrong with the Russia investigation, he's decided to selectively declassify portions of interviews with Christopher Steele, without allowing Steele any opportunity to review or comment on the selected declassifications.

    Politico/MSNBC correspondent/contributor Natasha Bertrand: Can confirm NYT report (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/09/us/politics/ig-report-steele-dossier.html …) that Barr made a last minute declassification of details about Steele that will be in IG report. Steele was told about this yesterday and was not given a chance to review the new information, which as NYT notes is highly unusual.
    Steele was interviewed extensively by the IG’s office this year and handed over documents. As is standard, he was able to review the portions of the report that mention him. So it’s unclear why he’s been prevented from reviewing/being briefed on the newly declassified info.

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  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular
    Classic Barr. Let's see how much of the media falls for it I guess?

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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Barry Berk?

    I like his opening statement so far. It’s basically a timeline of events and how Trump was involved and directing it all. It’s nice to have someone put it all out there in context.

  • m!ttensm!ttens Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Barry Berk?

    I like his opening statement so far. It’s basically a timeline of events and how Trump was involved and directing it all. It’s nice to have someone put it all out there in context.

    I've only had a few minutes to watch in between meetings but I hope that Jon Hamm plays Berke in the HBO miniseries that will inevitably come out in 5 years.

  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Barry Berk?

    I like his opening statement so far. It’s basically a timeline of events and how Trump was involved and directing it all. It’s nice to have someone put it all out there in context.

    He was the one who worked over Lewendowski during his hearing. He's good.



    Also, the man who made the outburst and was removed was Owen Shroyer from Infowars... :rotate:

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Barry Berk?

    I like his opening statement so far. It’s basically a timeline of events and how Trump was involved and directing it all. It’s nice to have someone put it all out there in context.

    I've only had a few minutes to watch in between meetings but I hope that Jon Hamm plays Berke in the HBO miniseries that will inevitably come out in 5 years.

    He’ll be played by Barry Block

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Jesus Christ the Republicans are thin-skinned. They're now asking the witness be stricken from the record for impugning the President. When that was denied, they demanded a ruling on it, and that the ruling was submitted in writing, and that the vote was held after it was in writing.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    So the hearings have become for the day. In no surprise the Republicans are pushing parliamentary bs to delay or cancel the hearings. At this point saying the witness is subject to rules of the House that do not allow you to impugn the actions or reasons of the President though witnesses are not covered. It is fascinating to listen how they try to use the system to delay and deflect because they have no ability to argue against.

    Now its is Castor the Republican lawyer. And they are making their argument. The projection is amazing. "Searching for a set of facts" about impeaching Trump considering how many bs investigations and Congressional hearings to do the same to Obama and what they pulled with Clinton.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    I wonder if Castor is realizing he's entering into the record a ton of different cases for why the Pres could be impeached...

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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    Jesus Christ the Republicans are thin-skinned. They're now asking the witness be stricken from the record for impugning the President. When that was denied, they demanded a ruling on it, and that the ruling was submitted in writing, and that the vote was held after it was in writing.

    I'm five minutes behind, but man watching this is sickening. During Burke's opening statement the camera kept going to republicans and all of them were looking at their phones or talking with each other. Meanwhile every time the cameras moved to dems, they were all listening intently. Then immediately after Burke republicans started the delay tactic. Gross.

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  • CogCog Registered User regular
    Castor started his statement by introducing himself as a congressional staffer and then saying it was unusual to hear from a staffer at these hearings.

    So... Right from his first statement, he's dunking on himself.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Cog wrote: »
    Castor started his statement by introducing himself as a congressional staffer and then saying it was unusual to hear from a staffer at these hearings.

    So... Right from his first statement, he's dunking on himself.

    Well that is actually true. Congressional staffers tend to not be part of the actual hearings but due all the footwork in the back end. So it is unusual to hear from a staffer unless it is a unique circumstance. The member who the staffer works for would instead read what the staffers prepared.

    It may be the most true statement in his entire statement.

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  • CogCog Registered User regular
    Even while true, starting your statement with "I gotta tell you, I'm in WAY over my head here" is an interesting strategy.

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    It will never cease to amaze me the lengths Republicans will go to to punish Christopher Steele for having the bad manners to sacrifice his career and put his life in danger to warn the United States that a foreign enemy was plotting to interfere in their democratic elections.


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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    What blows my mind is all these holes that Castor is pointing out? They'd sure be solved quickly if the President actually submitted the documents requested.

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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    It will never cease to amaze me the lengths Republicans will go to to punish Christopher Steele for having the bad manners to sacrifice his career and put his life in danger to warn the United States that a foreign enemy was plotting to interfere in their democratic elections.

    It's because he almost kept one of them from getting into power. If he'd been working against a Democrat the same assholes would have given him his own national monument and a Medal of Honor by now.

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  • CogCog Registered User regular
    He's brought up the '76 days' thing twice now, as somehow being too fast.

    The inquiry into Bill Clinton's impeachment officially started on October 5th. 76 days later would have been December 20th. By that time, the Judiciary committee had already approved 4 articles of impeachment, and the full house had approved two of them.

    So this process is already well slower than the GOP-run impeachment of Clinton.

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  • CogCog Registered User regular
    Christ, the endless parliamentary fuckery by the GOP is insufferable.

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  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    I really hate this House rule that states the congressmen can't criticize the president.

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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    @moniker can we change the tag in the title to be [Impeachment]? I don't think I have OCD, but I'm starting to think I might.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Anyone watching the hearing this morning?


    This morning the House Judiciary Committee will hold their second round of public hearings in preparation for Impeachment proceedings against President Donald Trump. Today’s hearing follow’s last week’s statement from Speaker Nancy Pelosi, requesting that House Committee Chairmen proceed with Articles of Impeachment and will receive presentations of evidence from counsel to the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and the House Judiciary Committee

    In preparation, this weekend Chairman Jerry Nadler released a report entitled Constitutional Grounds for Presidential Impeachment

    Today’s hearing will call Majority and Minority Counsel for both the House Judiciary Committee and House Intelligence Committee as witnesses, to provide presentations of evidence.

    Democrats call:
    Barry Berke, Majority Counsel, House Judiciary Committee
    Daniel Goldman, Majority Counsel, House Intelligence Committee

    Republicans call:
    Steve Castor, Minority Counsel, House Judiciary Committee, House Intelligence Committee

    Some audience member just did a big outburst for a minute and was escorted out.

    Was that an audience member or was that Matt Gaetz?

    I’m not kidding. I missed the whole thing but people are saying Matt Gaetz had something sort of outburst. I can’t tell if it was just him yelling “I object” at the very start or if the rant was him too.


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