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[New World] Where we ask the REAL questions! Like, "What is Launch?"

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    vamenvamen Registered User regular
    I enjoyed the combat but there was a little bit of delay to it and also hits not connecting at a distance that appeared they should. To me it seemed like it was very close to having a nice feel but needed some more polish.

    The ranged weapons, guns especially, had a good feel to them.

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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Yeah, I liked the guns when I played.

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    i have a friend that wants me to play this so ill probably try it at least once but coming in completely blind

    one thing i can say is that for an MMO the graphics seem pretty amazing but im not sure how doctored the footage is

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    WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    Good to know. I liked the descriptors people have been using for combat, but it looked super chaotic in the dungeon video I watched. I'm wondering if it's more of a GW2-style game in that regard.

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    vamenvamen Registered User regular
    I think some of that may be just that dungeons are new and people are learning how to do them, but I haven't gotten to try a dungeon (I'm not in the current test) so I could be mistaken.

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    rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    If you mean the dungeons aren't tank n spank I'd be surprised if they managed to wring that out of a PvP combat system.

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    vamenvamen Registered User regular
    As best I can tell the dungeons are just using slightly harder versions of overworld creatures without anything especially new or interesting, mechanic-wise. I definitely hope they do more with them.

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    StupidStupid Newcastle, NSWRegistered User regular
    edited July 2021
    I have access to the current test version of the game and check in about every month or so.

    The overall look and feel of the game is AMAZING!! Easily the best looking MMO I have ever played. Even on a sub-standard PC, the frame rates are decent and it runs silky smooth, even with a large number of character models on screen. If you're the kind of player who just wants to be "in" a virtual world with a shared experience (which I guess is a lot of people), then this game will probably appeal to you.

    The in-game lore is decent, but is more of the Bioware "read these in-game books" kind of storytelling, not the typical MMO "questline" storytelling. Speaking of quests, there is basically only one quest in the entire game. Not one quest LINE, but rather just one quest that you will do over and over and over and over. Go to an area, kill 5/10/15 monsters, collect 2/5/10 things.

    Combat is bloody awful with a 250-ish ping. Combat is all but impossible. Unless I can one- or two-shot something, it's a long, drawn out slog. The combat system wants you to be active whilst fighting, but with a high ping you can't see tells until after the reaction window has already closed, so all combat is forced into the "hit as hard as you can and hope for the best" bucket. Combat of any length results in a lot of damage, which means a lot of downtime. There are ways to partially mitigate this, but it just isn't fun (for me). I'm told (and can speak form personal experience) that the combat with a low ping (i.e. 50-ish ms) is not nearly so bad.

    There are parts of the game not affected by ping: crafting and gathering. But the crafting system seems silly and pointless. Dropped and quest rewards completely outclass crafting. I'm not sure why anyone would bother - and I normally really love crafting in MMOs! Maybe that turns around at end-game, but I don't see it. Gathering is a kind of fun, but slow to progress (which is by design I believe), loosely tied to combat progression, and a bit of a money sink. I guess the intent is that once you get over the initial hurdles, you can 'sell' the higher level gathers to other players at some point? I'm not sure that's viable since it still relies on leveling (and thus combat) to get there.

    I have zero experience with end-game content because I just can't force myself to play longer than one session before getting frustrated. Maybe it's good? No idea.

    I'll probably give it another go when they open a local-to-me server in late July. I really enjoyed the "test" thing last year but the current version (with high ping) is unplayable.

    Stupid on

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    are there any good semi-current youtube videos out there that detail some of the game? some basic searching brings up the stereotypical cringe-y shit

    just trying to learn and oddly the official site doesn't offer up very much detail

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    quietjayquietjay Indianapolis, INRegistered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    are there any good semi-current youtube videos out there that detail some of the game? some basic searching brings up the stereotypical cringe-y shit

    You probably won't find much current actual game play video as the closed alpha ended a couple weeks ago and was under NDA and the closed beta launches July 20, so check back next week.

    Become a Star Citizen
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    NosfNosf Registered User regular
    Making a game about colonizing the new world in 2021 is pretty ballsy!

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    Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    edited July 2021
    Nosf wrote: »
    Making a game about colonizing the new a fictional world in 2021 is pretty ballsy at least mildly interesting and original!

    FTFY

    Edit: forgot to mention, nice hot take there.

    Anon the Felon on
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    asofyeunasofyeun Registered User regular
    I dunno what's a hot take there, the game's pretty honest about evoking the aesthetics of real world conquistadors in a surrogate new world

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    Anon the FelonAnon the Felon In bat country.Registered User regular
    I don't think that's what our friend here is going for. But, I'd be happy to be wrong.

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    WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    Didn't they remove some of the colonization influences due to feedback? I believe I read that, but I don't have a source or anything.

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    asofyeunasofyeun Registered User regular
    Whelk wrote: »
    Didn't they remove some of the colonization influences due to feedback? I believe I read that, but I don't have a source or anything.

    Maybe?

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    KyanilisKyanilis Bellevue, WARegistered User regular
    Beta starts tomorrow morning and I'm tentatively excited for the game. They've been fairly receptive to player feedback and while I know not everyone loves some of the changes or how they tried to lean back towards PVE but I do think the end result will probably be a healthier game. I do kinda wish they took more time to play around with big changes and I'm not convinced the game is going to be where it really should be at launch, but they're much closer than they were a year ago. Basically, assuming it survives launch and doesn't go the route of Crucible there's a chance this will become a decent game.

    I'm extremely curious what the general response is going to be now that there's not an NDA in place.

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    reading about the scope of the game it feels almost impossible for them to pull it off but I hope they do

    i wouldn't mind getting in the beta. my curiosity is high

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    Whelk wrote: »
    Didn't they remove some of the colonization influences due to feedback? I believe I read that, but I don't have a source or anything.
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    I'm glad they dumped the earlier concept of being vaguely Spanish colonists conquering zombie-native indigenously occupied America. For the wisdom of that choice alone I'll take a crack at this.

    BahamutZERO.gif
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Seeing reports big streamers playing the beta are somehow getting instabanned from new world. So uhh that's not a good advertisement for the game.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    KyanilisKyanilis Bellevue, WARegistered User regular
    Not unexpectedly the servers are on fire. And yeah, the banned thing is weird. They've replied that it's a bug and they're looking into it, not a good start since they hyped up the marketing already.

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited July 2021
    Preacher wrote: »
    Seeing reports big streamers playing the beta are somehow getting instabanned from new world. So uhh that's not a good advertisement for the game.

    idk seems like something not intended.. as their social media presence for the past 5 days has been nothing but wall to wall big streamer marketing hype and also the company that owns new world also owns twitch

    Jasconius on
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Seeing reports big streamers playing the beta are somehow getting instabanned from new world. So uhh that's not a good advertisement for the game.

    idk seems like something not intended.. as their social media presence for the past 5 days has been nothing but wall to wall big streamer marketing hype and also the company that owns new world also owns twitch

    I'm sure it wasn't intentional as they clearly paid these streamers to play, but it was still along with their server outage not a good sign.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    KyanilisKyanilis Bellevue, WARegistered User regular
    There's definitely some things to not love about the game but it sure is pretty.

    SYlCuoR.jpg

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    dispatch.odispatch.o Registered User regular
    It's really hard to tell how good the underlying mechanics are with such a horde of people all in the same 2km area.

    It seems like they've added/fixed the introduction content. That doesn't mean a thing though. Every MMO has a shit ton of content for early levels at release. Better than half of the time it's stale or completely evaporates after a few hours of gameplay.

    It sure feels like it might be the case here.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Kyanilis wrote: »
    There's definitely some things to not love about the game but it sure is pretty.

    SYlCuoR.jpg

    The game looks really gorgeous, but the end game as it were doesn't interest me, I've never been a big fan of open world pvp and that seems to be pretty much all there will be.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    Yeah, that's the problem with MMOs that seems to have not evolved much in the last 15 years...an endgame that's actually fun and engaging, without being a pain in the ass.

    And MMO PvP is always a big *oof* and will essentially kill the longevity of the game if that's all there is.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Yeah, that's the problem with MMOs that seems to have not evolved much in the last 15 years...an endgame that's actually fun and engaging, without being a pain in the ass.

    And MMO PvP is always a big *oof* and will essentially kill the longevity of the game if that's all there is.

    I mean its the white whale of MMO devs. There have been several attempts at making the great grand open world warfare mmo, and so far nothing has ever been able to sustain itself on that. There has to be a reason devs keep trying right?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Planetside is the closest I think they have ever come. Specifically in regards to Preacher's comment.

    But Planetside is also 100% entirely a shooter and is not really an RPG in the same way that games like Warhammer Online were trying to be both RPG and Open-world sustainable PVP.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Planetside is the closest I think they have ever come. Specifically in regards to Preacher's comment.

    But Planetside is also 100% entirely a shooter and is not really an RPG in the same way that games like Warhammer Online were trying to be both RPG and Open-world sustainable PVP.

    Yeah I was thinking of planetside kind of, but yeah I feel that's more of a shooter, where as games like warhammer, or albion, or dark age of camelot or shadowbane etc etc were trying for that more regular MMO style combat.

    Though I have seen the shooting mechanic in new world and that feels more shooteresque than mmo, but that's one weapon type.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    Humans feel the pain of loss more acutely than the joy of gain. So when you create a persistent PvP environment where you reward the winners and punish the losers, your environment because an inherent "net fun loss" for your customers. That becomes further exasperated when the power of the winners improves incrementally, and the power of the losers decreases incrementally. The game becomes always favors the winners, and actually creates more incentives for the losers to quit and find another game to play.

    If PvP games really want to be successful, they should reward participation.

    Winning feels good. Losing feels bad. That should be enough.

    But if people stop participating in PvP, the game enters the death spiral which every single PvP-centric MMO enters, usually within the first 30 to 60 days. Mostly within 30 days if there's some sort of premium subscription attached, as very, very few people are going to actually pay just to get sand kicked in their face over and over again.

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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    On the topic of New World, I'm really torn right now. Here's some random thoughts. This is really just kind of stream of consciousness here so sorry for the scatterbrained post.

    Thought 1: I love the art aesthetic of this game and I think the fusion of early-colonial period armor and weapons, on top of some pretty strong fantasy and corruption themes have blended to make a really appealing visual design. I want to play and support the game because of this.

    Thought 2: All the day-one cash shop stuff is really off putting, and even if the devs pinky promise no P2W, I don't trust them. It just smacks of corporate greed to sell a game at full box price and also immediately launch with a cash shop. Tacky. Yes, I know this is the world we live in now. But I don't like it and I won't ever like it. Side tangent: I miss the days when video games were a hobby driven by hobby enthusiasts and not by money-grubbing corporate suits and investor round tables.

    Thought 3: Does this game actually offer anything new in terms of gameplay and player engagement? I've watched a ton of streams the last couple days, and I'm not really sure I see any reason to actually play this game. It seems like very generic MMO fare.

    Thought 4: There is an element of FOMO here. If I buy the game now for $40 I can immediately jump in and start playing the game in the beta.

    Thought 5: This is only beta, there will be a wipe, there's no point in any of this right now, so maybe I should just wait for retail launch in 6 week's time.

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    Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Yeah, that's the problem with MMOs that seems to have not evolved much in the last 15 years...an endgame that's actually fun and engaging, without being a pain in the ass.

    And MMO PvP is always a big *oof* and will essentially kill the longevity of the game if that's all there is.

    I mean its the white whale of MMO devs. There have been several attempts at making the great grand open world warfare mmo, and so far nothing has ever been able to sustain itself on that. There has to be a reason devs keep trying right?

    I think they keep trying because it is the niche no one has broken out with yet. WoW and FF14 are top dogs in the themepark MMO zone. You are setting yourself up for third place at best going that route, and there is a very long line of people who are trying.

    But stuff that like UO did best, Asheron's Call tried to follow, and only a few small time groups ever got a functioning game doing since is still open for breaking out. BDO has the bones but its overall structure is just made to beat down a player who doesn't choose to spend thousands of hours to be able to "play" the game, or spends insane amounts of RL money to have a chance to skip that. EVE maybe would be the best in the open world fight for dominance aspect of things. DAOC did well with it I guess.

    I looked at New World vids for the first time today to see what it is all about. It absolutely reminds me of the bone structure of Asheron's Call. That alone has my interest because I loved that game. I would think with Amazon being able to throw money at the project and having the resources to pull it off, they might have a shot at finally making a very accessible game in that vein. It is certainly going to be a MUCH better attempt than all those small time, money limited companies made.

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    WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    I've always been curious why they don't try making the endgame first. It always seems like they build up to it as this conflux of crap. Like everything is just checking boxes of stuff MMOs have and PVP games have. But the endgame is where 99% of play is. I don't want to play MMO PVP combat most of the time. It isn't really compelling and often obfuscated behind a gigantic slurry of buffs and debuffs. Moving to more ARPG combat is a good idea.

    Realistically, I don't think there's ways to marry power increases from gameplay into PVP how MMOs do it. I had always thought unlocking stat templates or alternate skills would be good, but a lot of people seem to hate that idea.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    It is weird how all mmos or multiplayer games in general seem to work hard on a leveling system, but yadda the end game where leveling is a minimal time sink compared to the end game. The days of EQ 1 where people never hit max level are long dead and buried.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited July 2021
    I brought this concept up in the Crowfall thread the other day.

    That game is offering level skips to 25 in a game where 30 is the level cap, I believe. At day 1 those level skips exist. That tells me that A) The developer has no confidence in their 1-25 experience if they think people will want to immediately skip it at the launch of a brand new game, and B) It tells me that maybe having levels at all is not the right fit for that game. Maybe if their emphasis is on Realm vs Realm PVP combat at max level, don't pad the game with a bunch of content that is irrelevant? Maybe just start everyone at max level and put even more development into that part of the game?

    Any game that says "The true game starts at level cap" maybe needs to re-evaluate their entire leveling concept. This includes WoW. This includes non-MMO games like Diablo 3. Diablo 3 is a seasonal game that resets every quarter. People can level from 1-70 in 2 hours or less. So why does 1-70 even exist in seasonal play? Why don't seasonal characters just start at 70 since that's where 99.999% of all gameplay during the course of a season occurs?

    I think the issue, and again, this is an opinion regarding all video games, not just New World or any other specific game is this:

    Not every game needs a leveling curve. Not every game needs to have a grindy campaign if that isn't even the focus of the game. If the focus of the game is capped PVP, maybe just focus on that and save yourselves time and money in developing a leveling grind that doesn't mean anything anyway.

    Thank you for attending this "Game Theory By Lucas" talk.

    Lucascraft on
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    WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I brought this concept up in the Crowfall thread the other day.

    That game is offering level skips to 25 in a game where 30 is the level cap, I believe. At day 1 those level skips exist. That tells me that A) The developer has no confidence in their 1-25 experience if they think people will want to immediately skip it at the launch of a brand new game, and B) It tells me that maybe having levels at all is not the right fit for that game. Maybe if their emphasis is on Realm vs Realm PVP combat at max level, don't pad the game with a bunch of content that is irrelevant? Maybe just start everyone at max level and put even more development into that part of the game?

    Any game that says "The true game starts at level cap" maybe needs to re-evaluate their entire leveling concept. This includes WoW. This includes non-MMO games like Diablo 3. Diablo 3 is a seasonal game that resets every quarter. People can level from 1-70 in 2 hours or less. So why does 1-70 even exist in seasonal play? Why don't seasonal characters just start at 70 since that's where 99.999% of all gameplay during the course of a season occurs?

    I think the issue, and again, this is an opinion regarding all video games, not just New World or any other specific game is this:

    Not every game needs a leveling curve. Not every game needs to have a grindy campaign if that isn't even the focus of the game. If the focus of the game is capped PVP, maybe just focus on that and save yourselves time and money in developing a leveling grind that doesn't mean anything anyway.

    Thank you for attending this "Game Theory By Lucas" talk.

    I think that's why Guild Wars 1 appealed to me so much. Levelling up was the tutorial, essentially.

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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I think it would be interesting if a game gave you all your tools at first, but as you used them you can evolve them? That way you can jump right in to the "end" game, but people who have been playing a while have more tools in the box but not like a power advantage.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    You could even make it cosmetic. Swing your sword 1000 times, use your skill points to make the animation sparkly. Half of me wanting to play MMOs is so I can be baseline effective and also so I can play dress up.

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    KyanilisKyanilis Bellevue, WARegistered User regular
    Yeah the game has a pretty long curve to max level and quite a few things that unlock later than expected. Where the heck is the level 10 dungeon? Show me something cool early on to keep me hooked! There's gaps that basically are just "go grind out a level or two using boring faction missions" and that's not great. It's not hard to level, but quests in general are generic faire.

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